[RMT] It's always best when the colour is off.

[moot]

So for about the third or fourth time I've decided to get back into DP and retry my hand at building a decent team that, you know, doesn't suck. I started with one of my favorite sets, a ScarfKiss, and built from there. I think it's decent at least, getting me a record of around 1400 on shoddy (by my standards this is fantastic). It definitely needs some help though, I'm sure.

GOAL: Set up a sweep path for Togekiss and get rid of its counters as well as anything that could stop its sweep while having a backup in case something goes awry.

quick glance before we get to the illegible part;

Hey look, a Gross lead. Haven't seen one of those before.
My lead helps to set up the rocks quickly before the sweepers come out blargh blargh et cetera et cetera. I subbed out Explosion and Meteor Mash on the standard set for the sake of coverage, seeing that Bullet Punch already does enough of a chunk to pokes unboosted. Thunderpunch deals a pretty penny to fliers and Gyarados, while EQ helps against other Steels and Fires. I pumped as much Defense into the monster as I could to help keep itself alive for the lategame.

Ugh my scanner clipped it.
LO SD Lucario is just...beastly at removing most of Togekiss's main counters. One of the best to be honest. He tosses out all the Steels and other high SpD- low Def-pokes so that Togekiss or Heatran can come in and mop up. If Kiss gets taken out early he's pretty useful as a backup sweeper too. Crunch helps out against Gengar, Dusknoir, and the other Ghosts while EQ helps out with Gross and with coverage.

Heatran, on this team, works as the opposite of Lucario in that he gets rid of pesky mixed pokemon that can go either way, like high-DEF steels or Salamences. Metal Sound is really useful for pseudo-pseudo-Hazing even though I'm not particularly fond of it missing all the time.
I'm debating switching his nature to Timid; I keep switching him in on things that I think it can outspeed and then I get corrected, hard.

NFS Underground: Latias Edition.
So when I was teambuilding, I needed a poke around this stage that would fill in the defensive holes, form a type of PHazing, and wouldn't open me up to Mixape as well as being able to tank if something went to hell. I had Suicune here for awhile but after toying around with Latias on another team I tried out I realized that it just totally outperformed it. I nudged the EVs so that the defensed bumped a little over 300, then gave it CM to help buff itself out and Wish to give some team support- walais, my sweep stopper.

For my next poke I wanted to find something that could take down screens set up by Rotoms or a Bronzong/Zapdos combo, so I picked up Weavile, who fit the bill perfectly with STABd Ice and Dark moves as well as Brick Break for the screens. Aerial Ace was mainly filler, but I could really put anything in there- it hasn't seen much use.

The star of our show, Scarf Togekiss. A god amongst mortals, he'll come in later and sweep once all his counters are down- Blissey, Cradily, etc. Aura Sphere is of course a fantastic device that completely annihilates Tyranitar and co while Tri Attack is a fantastic general-use sweeping device that has that awesome added bonus of a status condition most of the time. 60% flinch hax isn't too shabby either though. Flamethrower is mainly filler and helps against Metagrossi that get in the way occasionally, but I'm thinking about putting Grass Knot here for bulky waters that might show up. Or maybe Flame Wave. I'm not sure.

Anyway, please rate and recommend, thank you lovelies. (:

Changes:

Metagross: Dropped TPunch, added Meteor Mash, removed Lum and added Occa Berry, all DEF evs now in ATK

Lucario: Dropped Crunch for Extremespeed

Heatran: Dropped Metal Sound for Substitute

Latias: Unchanged

Weavile: Removed Focus Sash, added Lum Berry, dropped Aerial Ace for Swords Dance

Togekiss: Current spread at Modest 252 SpA/252 Spe/6 HP

 

[Morm]

aerial ace can be replaced with swords dance on weavile, it's a nice option since ice shard is a priority and a stab. I never leave home without SD on my weaviles...especially my well drawn ones <3

 

[Articanus]

Scizor does Weavile's job about 10x better, plus sash on anything outside a starter generally ins't a good idea without a lot of support.

Though the pic did make me laugh

 

[Thorns]

I recall losing to this team because I didn't get stealth Rock up.

Aldaron gave this thread five stars ahahahha

So um definitely use Lum Berry or something on Weavile. SR is too common to use Focus Sash. Night Slash or Ice Punch can work over Aerial Ace if you like.

Extremespeed or Ice Punch over Earthquake on Lucario, you're currently beaten by too many things like Gliscor and revenge killers. or you could be psycho and use bullet punch

 

[chenman333]

You need Meteor Mash on your Metagross lead if you want to beat stuff like Azelf, who is still very common. And beating Tyranitar as well. Your last slot should be between Explosion and EQ. I personally like Explosion for the versatility, but EQ is very viable for beating Infernape leads that are annoying.

Highly recommend Occa Berry. There are a lot more Fire attack leads (Infernape, Heatran, even Fire Punch Jirachi or Fire Blast Tyranitar) than sleeper leads.

 

[Solidus]

Alright you have a nice team, everything seems to fit in nicely, but there are a few things that I want to adjust. I'm not gong to make any drastic changes, just some tweaks in certain places. I guess I'll start from the top.

First off, Metagross, I believe that you wouldn't benefit from running Explosion or ThunderPunch as much as you would if you ran Meteor Mash, and let me explain why. Explosion is just going against what you want Metagross to do, which is being sort of a wall, and with an Impish nature along with having only 4 Attack EV's, it would be best to not use Explosion. ThunderPunch may give you a way to handle Gyarados, but if you were to ever use it, it would be best used over Bullet Punch imo, because using it instead one of your two strongest attacks, Meteor Mash and Earthquake, wouldn't be the best thing to do. Also, judging from Metagross's EV spread and what you actually said, it's going to be brought out later in the match and Meteor Mash coupled with Bullet Punch will be really useful at eliminating a few key threats as opposed to if you only ran Bullet Punch alone. As for his EV's and nature, I think you would be better off going for an Adamant nature, a spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe EV's. At least 252 HP EV's is enough at giving considerable bulk and max Attack is really handy for a Gross lead.

Next up is Lucario. I recommend running ExtremeSpeed somewhere, preferably over Crunch since you already have reliable coverage against Ghosts with Weavile, and this highers Lucario's capabilities as a sweeper, more so a backup sweeper as you said just in case something goes wrong with Togekiss, although hopefully it won't. I would also consider dropping Earthquake for Stone Edge so that you can hit annoying Flying types, notably Gyarados and Zapdos who are normally caught switching in on Lucario since Intimidates and Heat Waves, respectively, will mess up Lucario. Eliminating Zapdos will also be very beneficial at allowing Togekiss to sweep since Zapdos completely walls him, and your only other best way of getting rid of Zapdos is with CM boosted Dragon Pulses from Latias. Another benefit to this is that you can hit Ghosts just as hard as Crunch, if not harder, with a +2 Stone Edge. Although it's not completely recommended, a possibility is going for a Jolly nature which makes Stone Edge more successful in that it hits neutral nature Salamence, Zapdos, and even the occasional Jolly Gyarados.

For Heatran, I would recommend dropping Metal Sound for Substitute so that you won't be completely open to a OHKO due to having such low Speed because of a Modest nature, and you obviously can't safely switch into a Salamence due to having to face an Earthquake. Going for a Timid nature instead might help you out a bit since it does allow you to outspeed Adamant Heracross, but other than that I really see no use, that is, if you go for the above suggestion. If you don't go for Substitute, then a Timid nature will work. I think you may be better off going for a Scarf Heatran, but it might be a liability, and even though your only other Scarfer is meant to be brought out late game, two Scarfers can be a bit of a hassle. Just a possibility to consider.

Now we have Latias. Wow, what a utility oriented moveset. Thunder Wave could work somewhere in that moveset since it allows your slower team members to function with more success. I really don't know what would be best dropped for it, so I don't know if that's the best idea. Have you ever considered going for a defensive CM Latias? You have reliable enough wall breakers with Lucario and Weavile, and stat uppers might not be as much of a problem as you think. With that being said, I actually don't see anything really problematic with Latias, so I'll leave that up to you to consider.

As already said above, with Weavile it generally isn't much use to use a Focus Sash on him if he isn't leading since in practically all battles Stealth Rock will be laid down and you don't have a Spinner to get rid of SR, or the oh so common Tyranitar or Hippowdon will be in a match which means a Sandstorm will be started up, thusly negating Sash. I'd just go ahead and slap on a Life Orb instead. Another thing which was already stated, run Swords Dance over Aerial Ace since +2 Pursuits will get rid of fleeing Blissey's and Rotom's who will halt Togekiss's sweep and considerably boosts your other attacks as well. Expert Belt can be used instead of Life Orb if you want those SE attacks to hit about as hard as LO but you don't have to receive any recoil. Weavile tends to get KO'd quickly anyways so Life Orb would probably be the better option.

Last but not least, Togekiss! There isn't anything to really improve on, and it looks pretty good. I'm not sure what those Defense EV's are for since you didn't specifically get into detail about it. I want to suggest going for a Modest nature and swapping those Defense EV's and putting them into Speed. Sticking with Timid works as well at the expense of a little less power.

Anyways, nice team, hope this advice helps you. I'll come back here if you have any questions because it's been a while since I last rated a team and I may have been unclear on some things. Good luck with your team! =)

 

[moot]

aerial ace can be replaced with swords dance on weavile, it's a nice option since ice shard is a priority and a stab. I never leave home without SD on my weaviles...especially my well drawn ones <3

SD does, looking back, seem like a much much better idea than Aerial Ace.

Scizor does Weavile's job about 10x better, plus sash on anything outside a starter generally ins't a good idea without a lot of support.

Though the pic did make me laugh

Scizor doesn't get STAB on dark and ice moves, both of which are crucial to this team because otherwise I can't touch things like Ghosts.

I recall losing to this team because I didn't get stealth Rock up.

Aldaron gave this thread five stars ahahahha

So um definitely use Lum Berry or something on Weavile. SR is too common to use Focus Sash. Night Slash or Ice Punch can work over Aerial Ace if you like.

Extremespeed or Ice Punch over Earthquake on Lucario, you're currently beaten by too many things like Gliscor and revenge killers. or you could be psycho and use bullet punch

Hahaha, aldaron. <3
I'm gonna add in Extremespeed probably, due to basically everyone saying it, haha.

You need Meteor Mash on your Metagross lead if you want to beat stuff like Azelf, who is still very common. And beating Tyranitar as well. Your last slot should be between Explosion and EQ. I personally like Explosion for the versatility, but EQ is very viable for beating Infernape leads that are annoying.

Highly recommend Occa Berry. There are a lot more Fire attack leads (Infernape, Heatran, even Fire Punch Jirachi or Fire Blast Tyranitar) than sleeper leads.

I'm liking this better to be honest. I originally put Focus Sash on there because he was so fragile and I like making teams that don't violate Item Clause. I'll throw Occa on Gross and Lum on Weavile. It should help against Willowispers too, although I'm slightly concerned about the effect that stupid lead smeargles will have (it seems that basically everyone and their brother likes to copy Obi's BP team).

Alright you have a nice team, everything seems to fit in nicely, but there are a few things that I want to adjust. I'm not gong to make any drastic changes, just some tweaks in certain places. I guess I'll start from the top.

First off, Metagross, I believe that you wouldn't benefit from running Explosion or ThunderPunch as much as you would if you ran Meteor Mash, and let me explain why. Explosion is just going against what you want Metagross to do, which is being sort of a wall, and with an Impish nature along with having only 4 Attack EV's, it would be best to not use Explosion. ThunderPunch may give you a way to handle Gyarados, but if you were to ever use it, it would be best used over Bullet Punch imo, because using it instead one of your two strongest attacks, Meteor Mash and Earthquake, wouldn't be the best thing to do. Also, judging from Metagross's EV spread and what you actually said, it's going to be brought out later in the match and Meteor Mash coupled with Bullet Punch will be really useful at eliminating a few key threats as opposed to if you only ran Bullet Punch alone. As for his EV's and nature, I think you would be better off going for an Adamant nature, a spread of 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe EV's. At least 252 HP EV's is enough at giving considerable bulk and max Attack is really handy for a Gross lead.
I liked Thunderpunch originally for lead Gyaradosi and Starmies (uncommon but I actually see them pretty frequently for some reason .-.) but now that I've been getting all of these comments about it I'm going to put a SR/BP/EQ/Meteor Mash spread.
I likewise agree about the EV spread, I've been tinkering with it a bit, but I think that if I leave Impish on there it'll help it withstand a few threats.

Next up is Lucario. I recommend running ExtremeSpeed(done) somewhere, preferably over Crunch since you already have reliable coverage against Ghosts with Weavile, and this highers Lucario's capabilities as a sweeper, more so a backup sweeper as you said just in case something goes wrong with Togekiss, although hopefully it won't. I would also consider dropping Earthquake for Stone Edge so that you can hit annoying Flying types, notably Gyarados and Zapdos who are normally caught switching in on Lucario since Intimidates and Heat Waves, respectively, will mess up Lucario. Eliminating Zapdos will also be very beneficial at allowing Togekiss to sweep since Zapdos completely walls him, and your only other best way of getting rid of Zapdos is with CM boosted Dragon Pulses from Latias. Another benefit to this is that you can hit Ghosts just as hard as Crunch, if not harder, with a +2 Stone Edge. Although it's not completely recommended, a possibility is going for a Jolly nature which makes Stone Edge more successful in that it hits neutral nature Salamence, Zapdos, and even the occasional Jolly Gyarados.
Stone Edge makes sense, but with EQ I can take out Rocks and Steel-types with high DEF that usually wall the fuck out of me. Weavile could take down Zapdos, as could Latias, as you stated. I don't think it's as big of a problem. Weavile OHKOs Mence with Ice Shard before Mence can get a breath in, as whenever I see a Mence switch in it usually DDs and then uses Outrage.

For Heatran, I would recommend dropping Metal Sound for Substitute so that you won't be completely open to a OHKO due to having such low Speed because of a Modest nature, and you obviously can't safely switch into a Salamence due to having to face an Earthquake. Going for a Timid nature instead might help you out a bit since it does allow you to outspeed Adamant Heracross, but other than that I really see no use, that is, if you go for the above suggestion. If you don't go for Substitute, then a Timid nature will work. I think you may be better off going for a Scarf Heatran, but it might be a liability, and even though your only other Scarfer is meant to be brought out late game, two Scarfers can be a bit of a hassle. Just a possibility to consider.
Good idea. Dropping Metal Sound for Sub.

Now we have Latias. Wow, what a utility oriented moveset. Thunder Wave could work somewhere in that moveset since it allows your slower team members to function with more success. I really don't know what would be best dropped for it, so I don't know if that's the best idea. Have you ever considered going for a defensive CM Latias? You have reliable enough wall breakers with Lucario and Weavile, and stat uppers might not be as much of a problem as you think. With that being said, I actually don't see anything really problematic with Latias, so I'll leave that up to you to consider.
Mmmmm... honestly, Latias is the one that suffers from five moveslot syndrome the worst on this team. I use him as a utility when things go to hell and Wishpassing and Phazing is basically the only form of support I have on this team.

As already said above, with Weavile it generally isn't much use to use a Focus Sash on him if he isn't leading since in practically all battles Stealth Rock will be laid down and you don't have a Spinner to get rid of SR, or the oh so common Tyranitar or Hippowdon will be in a match which means a Sandstorm will be started up, thusly negating Sash. I'd just go ahead and slap on a Life Orb instead. Another thing which was already stated, run Swords Dance over Aerial Ace since +2 Pursuits will get rid of fleeing Blissey's and Rotom's who will halt Togekiss's sweep and considerably boosts your other attacks as well. Expert Belt can be used instead of Life Orb if you want those SE attacks to hit about as hard as LO but you don't have to receive any recoil. Weavile tends to get KO'd quickly anyways so Life Orb would probably be the better option.
Already dropped Sash for Lum Berry and threw on SD. I'll violate Item Clause if I absolutely have to, but tbh I like the Lum Berry option better. (;

Last but not least, Togekiss! There isn't anything to really improve on, and it looks pretty good. I'm not sure what those Defense EV's are for since you didn't specifically get into detail about it. I want to suggest going for a Modest nature and swapping those Defense EV's and putting them into Speed. Sticking with Timid works as well at the expense of a little less power.
I put the DEF EVs on just to make him a bit more bulky; I'll switch him to Modest and throw on the rest of the EVs, it should even him out.

Anyways, nice team, hope this advice helps you. I'll come back here if you have any questions because it's been a while since I last rated a team and I may have been unclear on some things. Good luck with your team! =)

Wow lots of help, thank you guys. (:

Changes:

Metagross: Dropped TPunch, added Meteor Mash, removed Lum and added Occa Berry, all DEF evs now in ATK

Lucario: Dropped Crunch for Extremespeed

Heatran: Dropped Metal Sound for Substitute

Latias: Unchanged

Weavile: Removed Focus Sash, added Lum Berry, dropped Aerial Ace for Swords Dance

Togekiss: Current spread at Modest 252 SpA/252 Spe/6 HP