RMT (Seriously this time)

necrostevo

Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Calm 252 HP/ 252 Sp. Def/ 6 Sp. Attk
Energy Ball
Sludge Bomb
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed

A good solid lead. My favorite Pokemon can sleep fairly quickly and leech seed all others. The only thing that really resists this set are Steels and Gengar... fortunately, Venasaur has the survivability to stick around.

Umbreon @ Chople Berry
Careful/Impish 252 Sp. Def/ 128 Def/ 128 HP
Wish
Pursuit
Toxic
Protect

My favorite special wall, he is often overlooked by his low attacking options. However, with this set, he can force switches and then pursuit the switch. This can pretty much come in on anything and heal away the damage! I set Umbreon up to take hits and force switches... this set has proved more adept to team cohesiveness and forcing switches from Toxic.

*** Replacement for Snorlax:
Slowbro @ Leftovers
Bold 252 Sp. Attk/ 158 Def/ 100 HP
Slack Off
Calm Mind
Psychic
Surf

This is bulky enough to stay alive and maintain poison damage. Water/Psychic is double STAB and provides decent coverage. It hits Gyrados neutral, Lucario neutral, and Infernape/Tyranitar super-effective while none of them are able to quite OHKO him.
Porygon-Z @ Choice Scarf Download
Modest 252 Sp Attk/ 252 Sp/6 HP
Dark Pulse
Thunderbolt
Tri-Attack
Ice Beam

I really wanted to play with this set some, and I really see this as somewhat viable. I didn't go with Life orb because he doesn't have that much HP to spend. After Agility, he is fast enough to beat most pokemon while receiving (hopefully Sp Attk) boosts from Download.

Forretress @ Shed Shell
Impish 252 Def/ 252 HP/ 6 HP
Rapid Spin
Toxic Spikes
Gyro Ball
Stealth Rock

My favorite physical wall is back again. His main purpose is to get Stealth Rock and perhaps a layer or two of spikes down. I am testing Gyro Ball and Zap Cannon over Explosion, but so far, explosion has proven more potent.

Dragonite @ Yache Berry
Adamant 252 Attk/ 252 Sp/ 6 HP
Earthquake
Fire Punch
Dragon Claw
Dragon Dance

Dragonite will forever hold a place in my team! I am going with Fire Punch over Fire blast because I never do well with low accuracy moves, and, after a DD or two, Fire Punch becomes viable. The EQ and DD go great together as well. Yache Berry is for survivability when my opponent expects the Ice beam to OHKO him.
 
necrostevo said:
Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Calm 252 HP/ 252 Sp. Def/ 6 Sp. Attk
Energy Ball
Sludge Bomb
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed

A good solid lead. My favorite Pokemon can sleep fairly quickly and leech seed all others. The only thing that really resists this set are Steels and Gengar... fortunately, Venasaur has the survivability to stick around.

Fine

Umbreon @ Dark Plate
Careful/Impish 252 Sp. Def/ 252 Def/ 6 HP
Moonlight
Pursuit
Toxic
Charm

My favorite special wall, he is often overlooked by his low attacking options. However, with this set, he can force switches and then pursuit the switch. This can pretty much come in on anything and heal away the damage!

Umbreon needs HP, so you should put your Defence EVs into HP. Also I'm not entirely sure this would be a good build, as Umbreon has a low amount of Attack.

Snorlax @ Muscle Band
Careful 252 Attk/ 252 Sp. Def/ 6 HP
Curse
Rest
Body Slam
Crunch/Ice Punch
FONT
Another favorite of mine (see the trend here), Snorlax can take a hit and Curse up on switches. I am not sure whether to use Crunch or Ice Punch, but Body Slam is staple on Snorlax for me. Rest is there to dream away damage taken while cursing up.

Leftovers is prefered here, check the Curselax build here.

Porygon-Z @ Wise Glasses Download
Modest 252 Sp Attk/ 252 Sp/6 HP
Agility
Thunderbolt
Tri-Attack
Ice Beam

I really wanted to play with this set some, and I really see this as somewhat viable. I didn't go with Life orb because he doesn't have that much HP to spend. After Agility, he is fast enough to beat most pokemon while receiving (hopefully Sp Attk) boosts from Download.

Timid/Nasty Plot is prefered over Modest/Agility, but I guess this could work...

Forretress @ Leftovers
Impish 252 Def/ 252 HP/ 6 HP
Rapid Spin
Spikes
Explosion
Stealth Rock

My favorite physical wall is back again. His main purpose is to get Stealth Rock and perhaps a layer or two of spikes down. He can survive to blow away my opponent's spikes and then blowup when his job is done.

Fine.

Dragonite @ Yache Berry
Adamant 252 Attk/ 252 Sp/ 6 HP
Earthquake
Fire Punch/Fire Blast
Outrage
Dragon Dance

Dragonite will forever hold a place in my team! I am still testing Fire punch vs blast (Accuracy tends to disfavor me), but the EQ and DD go great together. Yache Berry is for survivability when my opponent expects the Ice beam to OHKO him.

Fine
Click to expand...
 
Fire Punch beats fire blast for me, and Umbreon definitely works better with more HP. He lasted longer and was able to force more switches even with a loss of Def EV's.
 
How do you feel about Toxic Spikes on Forretress instead of Spikes? You have enough stallish Pokémon that I think it might be more effective. It doesn't work against Poison and Steel types, which coincidentally are the exact types that Venusaur is going to want to put to sleep anyway.
 
I did consider Toxic Spikes, but I have not had a chance to try it out yet. (Toxic spikes poison with one row, and badly poison with two rows down correct?) I am also concerned with Guts pokemon coming in on the spikes and picking up an attack boost when I could have controlled that somewhat.

(Ex. Heracross comes in, Spikes damage, SR damage, I decided NOT to Toxic it because of Guts)

vs.

(Ex. Heracross comes in, Toxic spikes poison, SR damage, Guts raises his already annoyingly high attack power)

But then again, is this a viable reason for not using Toxic Spikes?
 
Toxic Spikes are usually better than plain spikes (from personal experience) SR and Toxic Spikes is usually enough to screw over a lot of teams, including mine. I also like Umbreon EV spread is good, but take off fire blast on Dragonite for something more accurate. Dragonite can take a hit, but missing with fire blast gives your opponent a turn to switch. Otherwise, nice team :D
 
Okay, after using this team against various opponents on Shoddy, I have found several things:

#1 Toxic Spikes definitely works better than spikes. Even against Heracross, a Guts Megahorn won't kill Venusaur while both Leech Seed recovery and Black Sludge recovery are going on.

#2 The team has an overall fighting weakness. Besides Venusaur, Umbreon, Snorlax, Foretress, and Porygon-Z are weak to conventional fighters like Lucario, Heracross, etc.

#3 Dragonite kills itself b/c of confusion more than it is killed by the opponent. (Ice attacks don't OHKO him). Thus, Outrage will be switched for Dragon Claw.

Are there any pokemon you all can suggest for dealing with common pokemon with fighting type attacks? I was thinking Nidoqueen because it has adequate defenses, can poison when hit, and can have a variety of attacks. Gliscor... who I wanted to avoid using because I'm already using an extremely overused pokemon: Dragonite, but he is another viable counter. I am also thinking of using Dorapion as well... decent defense/staying power there too.

Comments?
 
Am I the only one who thinks using dark plate on Umbreon is a bad idea?

Also if you are using Toxic Spikes with Forry then get rid of Toxic on umbreon... also I would use wish/protect (wish goes over moonlight, protect over toxic) because Moonlight is unreliable with all the sandstorm teams out there and sandstorm is a very common factor.

I would put leftovers on Umbreon as well
 
I try to go with Item Clause when when making teams. Trust me, I definitely wish there was something better to go on Umbreon than Dark Plate.

I will try using another move on Umbreon besides Toxic. I just had it on there to force switches and utilize Pursuit even more. Also, how does this look in place of Umbreon:

Dorapion @ Scope Lens
Impish 252 Def/ 128 Sp. Def/ 128 Attk
Roar/Whirlwind
Knock Off
Fire Fang
Night Sash

It still fulfills the switch role of Umbreon while also Knocking off items as it phazes the opponent. Fire Fang can hit Weavile, Heracross, and Lurcario while Night Slash is there to Crit. Hax on anything else phazed in.
 
If you are playing with item clause you could try wide lens on Umbreon to increase the hit % for Toxic. You could also try the Chople Berry since even you admitted to having a major fighting weakness. Lum berry is also an option to help with status.
 
Item Clause is awesome. GO WITH IT.

On that note, I think Umbreon needs Leftovers more than any other Pokémon on your team. Forretress Explodes when it gets low on health and Snorlax has Rest.

On Forretress, you could go back to Shed Shell, or give it a Sitrus Berry (which restores quite a bit of HP these days). Once Custap Berry becomes legal, you should probably go with that.
 
Thanks again for your input everyone. I am going to try Forretress with an attacking move instead of Explosion to see how that fares for awhile.

Umbreon works better with Wish and Protect, and Toxic really needs to stay on Umbreon. It forces switches a lot more often than Tickle/Charm do.

As a side note, I choose to play with Item Clause (Even when my opponent doesn't) so that I can use the worst case scenario when choosing Ev's, items, and movesets.
 
I don't exactly see how your team handle Gyarados with a Wacan or Garchomp with a Yache. Porygon-Z is the only thing stopping the non-Berry variants from causing major pain. You also lose very quickly to SubBP chomp. You can try Bronzong over Forretress, to alleviate this chomp problem.
 
personally i like the cursing umbreon more than any stalling umbreon i normally run:

Umbreon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 164 HP/94 Def/252 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Payback
- Curse
- Wish / moonlight
- Protect / mean look

you can move a few (not too much) Sdef evs to def but your using curse anyway so

if you do this remove spikes in favor of t spikes on forry to do damage while cursing/healing

also if you use this set i recomend the CB snorlax from the analysis here so you can remove explosion from forry in favor of an attacking move.

also replacing a member with gliscor will help with your fighting pokemon problem
 
Chip: That Umbreon set looks nice. It does seem a viable way to make use of Umbreon's nice defense while making Payback... a b!tch. (Sorry, I'm a sucker for corny jokes)

Light: I definitely missed Gyrados as a problem because all of the times I have faced it with this team, Porygon has always countered it just fine. I suppose if I did need another counter, I could switch Snorlax out for another pokemon... Medicham & Zapdos come to mind, but they have to be able to fill the slot Snorlax leaves while becoming a counter to Lucario/Heracross/Gyrados/etc.

I'll make a threat list in a bit. This is fun to do while studying for a philosophy test tomorrow... is it ethical to switch out a Snorlax from your team even though you promised him you would use him? Kant says no....
 
Okay here's a threat list. I had previously identified the fighting weakness in this team, and Slowbro fills several of those holes nicely.



Tyranitar: Venasuar and Slowbro.

Gyarados: Porygon Z and Slowbro/Snorlax to an extent.

Infernape: Slowbro would fill here nicely. Otherwise, the only thing I have is...?

Azelf: Umbreon goes here. Azelf's movepool covers everything else.

Rhyperior: Even with Solid Rock/Sandstream, Venusaur eats him. PorygonZ/Dragonite can help here as well.

Electivire: Dragonite EQ.

Heracross: Not as sure here... Venusaur can survive a CB'ed Megahorn so he is about the only thing I'd send in to it. Slowbro can at least hit it back IF I survive the attack. (Snorlax is not survive CC)

Salamence: Depending on its spread, Porygon Z might be faster. If not, Umbreon can outstall it somewhat.

Togekiss: I hate going against this thing. Porygon Z should be faster (ignore Extremespeed), and Dragonite can hit it some as well.

Gengar: Umbreon to an extent, Slobro/Snorlax here too.

Garchomp: Porygon is faster with IB, unless it's a ScarfChomp. In that case, Umbreon or Snorlax/Slowbro.

Raikou: Dragonite EQ, HP ice won't hurt as much with Yache.

Lucario: Slowbro and Venasaur are the only things I could send in on this thing. It's movepool is so diverse that not even they can come in easily though.

Tauros: Umbreon outstalls him without a decent fighting attack.

Starmie: Hm... Snorlax as he is fits best here. Otherwise, Umbreon has to outstall it.

Weavile: Forretress here.

Dugtrio: I wish he would Arena Trap my Venusaur in there with him... otherwise, Porygon, Slowbro/Snorlax and Umbreon can all beat him.

Alakazam: Snorlax/Slowbro again here. Even with Focus Bomb, Umbreon can come in on a predicted psychic attack and do decent damage with Pursuit.

PorygonZ: Snorlax/Slowbro like to come in on this, otherwise, Umbreon can outstall (unless it has signal beam) and toxic it away.

Medicham: Slowbro would fill here nicely as well, otherwise, I'd have to make due with...? Venusaur most likely.

Staraptor: Dragonite and Forretress (because of Gyro Ball)

Slowbro: High HP poke's don't like leech seed, and Porygon will 2HKO with Thuderbolt.

Machamp: Not sure, if it is using Fire/Ice punch Venusaur and Dragonite have to stay away. This is where Slowbro would be great though.

Jolteon: Dragonite EQ

Aerodactyl:Unless Aerodactyl has Agility/Scarf, I think Porygon beats it head on in speed.

Snorlax: Venusaur is probably the best counter here. Even on a restalker, Leech Seed is heavy recovery from a Lax.

Zapdos: Porygon Z can switch in (thanks to Sp. Def.) and is faster thanks to Scarf.

Blissey: Dragonite can DD up, Venusaur can leech seed it also.

Suicune: Snorlax/Slowbro can take a hit from it and hit back (not bothering to stat up of course), Porygon Z can Thunderbolt as well.

Sceptile: Even with Aerial Ace, Venusaur beats Sceptile. Dragonite and Porygon Z afterwards.

Breloom: Venusaur beats Breloom.

Slaking: I don't thikn this gets Ice Punch... even so, Umbreon could come in on a Traunt, Protect, and then outstall with Toxic. (No I'm no afraid of FP)

Tangrowth: Venusaur beats Tangrowth with Sludge Bomb, Porygon Z with Ice beam, and Dragonite with Fire punch.

Ninjask: I am fairly decent at outpredicting these, so Dragonite/ Porygon are useful for breaking subs and being able to counter whatever they BP to.

Metagross: Dragonite can EQ, Snorlax/Slowbro can stat up on it.

Heatran: Dragonite can EQ this back to whence it came. Snorlax/Slowbro can also stay in on it and Curse/CM up.

Celebi: Dragonite with Fire Punch, Venusaur's Sludge Bomb (last resort, I wouldn't like a psychic attack there), and Porygon can Ice Beam.

Jirachi: Dragonite can hit with Fire Punch,
 
Okay Slowbro is definitely working out better than Snorlax vs. Fighters. I do have a small issue with grass knot, but on the few times it was used against me, a few calm minds prevented it from OHKO'ing Slowbro.

Anymore suggestions?
 
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