RMT, Stall is not teached, it is learned.

[tobi10]

RMT, Stall is not taught, it is learned.

Hi Smogon, this is my first stall team (or at least the the first good one) and it is going pretty well, but I know you can make it better.
I am revamping this thread since the original was pretty mediocre, lacking, etc. I am not that type of person, so I will work hard to make this RMT a masterpiece.

Introduction: My favorite play style is offense, and I have tried all sorts of combinations with that style, I noticed that the leaderboard is full of stall and balance, meaning it is the best style at the moment. There my desire to build a stall team was born. After reading pana´s RMT, Thriller, I liked his theme, especially due to the fact that it was original. So my first pokemon for this team was his Latias, but she was replaced through time. Added Spikes, Stealth Rock, phazers, walls, and my offensive touch.

Team Building:

The first thing I thought of was that I needed a spiker, a good one, there the selection began. I read Smogon´s Spike article and checked the pokes that are able to learn it, I chose the ones that could be considered for a competitive stall team and checked their defensive stats and form of recovery.

Cloyster (Rest)
50 / 180 / 45

Forretress (Rest)
75 / 140 / 60

Omastar (Rest)
70 / 125 / 70

Skarmory (Roost)
65 / 140 / 70

The lack of recovery on most of the spikers was bad, and lead me to chose between Forretress and Skarmory, reliable recovery and phazing vs Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes. Skarmory was the winner, since I want my Spiker to live long, something Forretress struggles to do. To counter the metagame I decided to use a specially defensive skarmory, to set up on unsuspecting pokes, and gave me a counter to refresh latias.

I know that the Skarmbliss combo works very good since GSC, and it continues to do so until now. Blissey is with no doubt, the best special wall in the game. I like the fact that she can spread status, heal herself, deal heavy damage ( with seismic toss) and it is hard to take down, a great pokemon overall.

The core of my team starts here, Skarmbliss. I have Spikes and WW to abuse it, but I am not going anywere just with that, and I hate the fact that Salamence can easily beat me, here is where the next pokemon enters.

The question here is the following: what Pokémon can counter Salamence and use Stealth Rock?
Again, I checked Smogon and searched for SR, here are the results of my search:

Bronzong
67 / 116 / 116

Donphan
100 / 120 / 60

Registeel
80 / 150 / 150

Swampert
100 / 110 / 90

I wanted him to be my lead, becuase I don´t want to waste more spots in something I can actually cover. Bronzong makes a good lead, since he isn´t OHKOd by any lead but Specs Tran, but none of the others can either. Donphan can use Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin, which is very nice for a lead, Registeel can cripple something with T-wave, set up Stealth Rock and Explode when he is not needed anymore. But what made you chose Swampert?
The fact than he can phaze and it is harder to wall due to his typing and stats, and he can check SD Infernape, that added my third Pokemon to my team.

However, since he is my lead, I cant count on him to be my sure fire mence counter, another steel was needed for this job, The fastest Steel type Pokemon was added to my team. When I was deciding for a set, I thought of Wish Support and Physical Choice, with a Shuca Berry he can save me from a sweep from dd Gyarados or DD Salamence if Swampert dies, but that is too unreliable, and with a Scarf, I am able to outspeed a boosted Salamence, Gyarados, Empoleon, Kingdra, and that added another check for Latias. He tends to cause switches vs oponents fearing an Iron Head, getting Tricked or getting hurt very badly by an elemental punch, this is a great addition to my team.

Since I run Spikes and Stealth Rock, a Rapid Spin Blocker was a must for my team, currently Rotom-A is the best Spin Blocker in OU.
Being honest, Lucario was a problem, so the best thing I could was not running a slow, bulky Rotom, but a fast and offensive one, but with enough to bulk to counter some threads and continually block Rapid Spin.

My last Pokemon was a Latias, but that made all of my battles vs. stall very hard to win, If I was going to replace it, it needed to be an Infernape counter, Starmie was my choice. I know that the defensive Starmie is set up and pursuit bait, and a friend of mine, Stauffen (the Blissey) suggested me using offensive Life Orb with Rapid Spin and Recover. That finished my team.

Here is my team:

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP/16 Atk/252 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Roar
---

Swampert is a viable user of SR and is very bulky, however, I hate instantly losing to Roserade (lack of Restalker), Taunt Azelf and Forretress, so I am considering in changing him. The reason why I dont use a mixed set is to hit Latias harder.

legend (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 40 HP/216 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Thunderpunch
- Fire Punch
- Trick
---

Props to pana for giving me the idea to use this on stall, with Iron Head, a Jolly nature, and a Choice Scarf, Salamence wont be a problem. ThunderPunch is needed for Gyarados, I have some problems with him, Fire Punch is there so that Scizor can get all the SD´s he wants and dont sweep me, it also checks Lucario. Trick is my way to deal with last pokemon stat upper like Crocune, Snorlax, Tyranitar and Umbreon.

Ciaran (Skarmory) (F) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/20 Atk/20Spd/180 SDef/ 40 Def
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Brave Bird
---

Careful Skarmory is half of the anti metagame couple, with Blissey. If I already used Spikes and I feel that my oponent will switch out, I whirlwind to scout his team and rack some Spikes and SR damage. Brave Bird without leftovers really hurts him though, but I dont Maggy to break my team, any suggestion for a better spread, moves or nature will be apreciated.

Kir (Blissey) @ Leftovers l Calm nature
252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
~ Softboiled
~ Seismic Toss ( I need it for Empoleon)
~ Toxic
~ Flamethrower

Blissey is a great Pokémon, she is a pretty nice special wall and can help the rest of the team with Toxic. I used to run a Bold Blissey, but some threats gave me problems and Calm fixes the problem. The reason why I use Softboiled over Wish is because I lack Protect, which means I would lack a reliable recovery move, which is a no-no on a Pokemon like her. Seismic Toss is my main attacking move, and helps to wear down Empoleon, it is helpful vs. some walls that lack recovery and pairs very good with Toxic. Toxic is there to steadily weaken my opponent´s team and with some prediction, I can start to make predicted switches which helps a lot to stall, which is the point of this team. Flamethrower, such a good move, Scizor is probably the most common switch-in to Blissey, meaning he falls at his second or third attemp, (I never use flamethrower turn one). The coverage it gives with seismic toss and toxic is perfect.

pana (Rotom-c) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 64 HP/216 Spd/228 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Charge Beam
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Will-o-wisp
---
Although one of the lesser used options, Charge Beam allows Rotom-C to attack while having a large chance to boost its already high Special Attack. When combined with Substitute, Rotom-C is even more capable of setting up on Blissey, a Pokemon that would normally wall a special attacking Rotom-C set. Seismic Toss has no effect on Rotom-C and Flamethrower / Ice Beam do not break Rotom-C's Substitutes due to the slight HP investment. Substitute also allows Rotom to block any Thunder Waves or Toxics that Blissey might launch at it. Shadow Ball is Rotom-C's main form of attack once it has received boosts from Charge Beam, capable of 3HKOing even 252 HP / 96 SpD Sassy Bronzong after a single boost.
This is what Smogon says about this, but my personal comment is that he can function very well as a wall. I use Will-o-Wisp over Thunderbolt or Hidden Power because I want him to last longer rather than attempting a sweep. Timid is necesary to outspeed Lucario and Gyarados after a Dragon Dance, what I like the most about this set is that with WoW most things are unable to break my Substitute, which means free set up, I like this set but I am willing to change it.

Starmie @ Life Orb
Timid
Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
---

Starmie is a great addition to must teams, including stall, like mine. He is the best user of Rapid Spin because it is very hard to spin block him. Defensive Rotom-A are 2HKOd by Hydro Pump and Surf, and offensive variants suffer a OHKO. The choice between my water STAB is between whether to KO Lucario, Scizor, Rotom and Zapdos, vs reliability. I have not tested Surf but I am happy with Hydro till now. I am using the "Rapid Spinner" set with the "Non-Choice Attacker" spread and item to get the respective KOs, it also 3HKOs Snorlax and Cresselia, which is a great thing for my team. Rapid Spin is what makes Starmie and good switch-in to Blissey, since they inmediatly switch to they spin blocker, even if they don´t, I still pack Recover to heal residual damage, Paybacks from Forretress and Close Combats from Infernape and the like.

Thanks for reading and RMT!

 

[franky]

Problems:

DD Salamence (mild)

How to fix:

Hey, great team. Its a mild threat, don't worry. To safely patch up the weakness, I'd really just go for 252 Spe on Jirachi to speed tie with Naive Salamence.

As for other options go Ice Beam, relaxed Swampert is a better option. Latias isn't really a concern so Avalanche isn't needed. As for Latias, go for Recovery. The Ground attacks hitting you is not good at all, after you use Roost. Try using that. Overall gl.

 

[tobi10]

Problems:

DD Salamence (mild)

How to fix:

Hey, great team. Its a mild threat, don't worry. To safely patch up the weakness, I'd really just go for 252 Spe on Jirachi to speed tie with Naive Salamence.

As for other options go Ice Beam, relaxed Swampert is a better option. Latias isn't really a concern so Avalanche isn't needed. As for Latias, go for Recovery. The Ground attacks hitting you is not good at all, after you use Roost. Try using that. Overall gl.

My Jirachi has max Speed, I took 40 evs from Atk, not from Speed, I was thinking the same of Ice Beam so I am going to test it. Roost is exactly the same as Recover when used on anything non flying. Thanks for the rate and I hope they keep coming!

 

[chenman333]

First piece of advice is to stop quitting so fast haha.

Now I suggest using Protect over Softboiled on Blissey. Scouting is obviously a useful tool since a lot of choiced attackers love swapping in, and it helps to play mindgames against an opponent, particularly with stuff that likes to use Explosion. Just don't be too predictable about so that your opponent doesn't take advantage of you.

Definitely change up your Rotom to a resttalker with WoW and Thunderbolt (252 HP/120 Def/136 SpD Bold). Starmie is a total bitch, spinning all your spikes all the time, and the popular LO variant can deal some serious pain to Rotom without enough investment. Still, you need to be careful, as even if you went max HP/max SpD, a timid LO Starmie 2hkos with Hydro Pump. But at least you won't be getting 1hkoed, or getting 2hkoed by surf.

I want to sleep now....so I might come back later.

 

[megamanz95]

Problem:
Special based Mixed Infernape (high)
Notes: using psypoke's damage calculator...standard
Infernape @ Life Orb
252 SpA/ 64 Atk/ 192 Spe
Naive (+ Spe, - SpD)
-Grass Knot
-Close Combat
-Fire Blast
-Hidden Power( Ice)

can OHKO Swampert with Grass Knot, Blissey with Close Combat

How to fix:
Its a great team. the only counter i see is Jirachi's trick, but since jirachi doesn't lead that does give Infernape a free attack before being given the scarf. its covered slightly. i just don't like that blaring weakness. but maybe bulky DD salamence but to fit in with that i'd take out latias. looks fine to me otherwise

 

[tobi10]

First piece of advice is to stop quitting so fast haha.

Now I suggest using Protect over Softboiled on Blissey. Scouting is obviously a useful tool since a lot of choiced attackers love swapping in, and it helps to play mindgames against an opponent, particularly with stuff that likes to use Explosion. Just don't be too predictable about so that your opponent doesn't take advantage of you.

Definitely change up your Rotom to a resttalker with WoW and Thunderbolt (252 HP/120 Def/136 SpD Bold). Starmie is a total bitch, spinning all your spikes all the time, and the popular LO variant can deal some serious pain to Rotom without enough investment. Still, you need to be careful, as even if you went max HP/max SpD, a timid LO Starmie 2hkos with Hydro Pump. But at least you won't be getting 1hkoed, or getting 2hkoed by surf.

I want to sleep now....so I might come back later.

Lol, you caught me, normally when I test a team and I am not in a good mood I just quit when something happens, the reason why Rotom has that spread is to outspeed Adamant Luke, so I need to be Timid. Maybe a Solution to this is to scarf rotom he still can check luke and isnt OHKOed by Hydro Pump but can OHKO back, I will be testing and hoping for your "return".

Problem:
Special based Mixed Infernape (high)
Notes: using psypoke's damage calculator...standard
Infernape @ Life Orb
252 SpA/ 64 Atk/ 192 Spe
Naive (+ Spe, - SpD)
-Grass Knot
-Close Combat
-Fire Blast
-Hidden Power( Ice)

can OHKO Swampert with Grass Knot, Blissey with Close Combat

How to fix:
Its a great team. the only counter i see is Jirachi's trick, but since jirachi doesn't lead that does give Infernape a free attack before being given the scarf. its covered slightly. i just don't like that blaring weakness. but maybe bulky DD salamence but to fit in with that i'd take out latias. looks fine to me otherwise

Infernape can be a pain without Latias, and if I replace Latias with mence, I will get 6-0ed by him,(other than Jirachi´s skillful flinches) I can see your point though, I think that Physically based nape causes more problem since he uses U-turn and can KO bliss, that makes me consider even more scarfing rotom, I will test and thanks for the rates.

 

[Fuzznip]

Hi there, I received your pm, so I'll see what I can do to help!

Blissey

Alright, with Blissey, you seem to have both Softboiled and Wish in one set. Now, I'm not saying that it's a bad idea to have both of them in a set, but I feel that you should use the standard WishBliss. The set looks something like this:

Blissey @ Leftovers l Calm nature
252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
~ Wish
~ Protect
~ Toxic
~ Flamethrower

None of your Pokemon have Toxic on your team, and you aren't using Toxic Spikes. It would be a good idea to have a Toxic staller so you can cripple threats and stall out there HP by using Wish and Protect. I suggest you look into that, as it your team will benefit from it greatly.

Skarmory

I honestly don't think you need to use a Specially Defensive Skarymory set. I mean, you already have Blissey to absorb all of the special attacks fired at Skarmory, while Skarmory is supposed to take on the physical attacks fired at Blissey. You are kind of lacking a physically defensive Pokemon other then Swampert, so I feel Skarmory should be used defensively. The set:

Skarmory @ Leftovers l Impish nature
252 HP / 64 Atk / 176 Def / 16 Spe
~ Spikes
~ Roost
~ Whirlwind
~ Brave Bird

I see that you feel that Swampert should leave the team because of the Pokemon you have mentioned, so I think there's one Pokemon you can try out and see if it works. The Pokemon would be Celebi, and the set looks like this:

Celebi @ Leftovers l Bold nature
252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
~ Grass Knot
~ Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
~ Stealth Rock
~ Recover

Since you already have two pHazers (Latias and Skarmory), I didn't mention Perish Song, although you can use it if you want. Celebi is a really underused lead, but it does exceptionally well in that position. It can set up Stealth Rock well with its great bulk and can aid the team against powerful physical threats, like Breloom (which your team seems to have a bit of a problem with). You can test if you like and see how it works, but I think Swampert is fine as is.

Hope I helped and good luck. :)

 

[Lord Liam]

Looks pretty good, and although I'm not extremely good at rating stall, I'd like to point one thing out.

Do not use Trick on Jirachi! Jirachi's purpose is to revenge Pokemon such as +1 Mence and Gyara, which you need your scarf for. Remove it for Ice Punch, so that you can reliably kill Mence.

 

[tobi10]

Hi there, I received your pm, so I'll see what I can do to help!

Blissey

Alright, with Blissey, you seem to have both Softboiled and Wish in one set. Now, I'm not saying that it's a bad idea to have both of them in a set, but I feel that you should use the standard WishBliss. The set looks something like this:

Blissey @ Leftovers l Calm nature
252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
~ Wish
~ Protect
~ Toxic
~ Flamethrower

None of your Pokemon have Toxic on your team, and you aren't using Toxic Spikes. It would be a good idea to have a Toxic staller so you can cripple threats and stall out there HP by using Wish and Protect. I suggest you look into that, as it your team will benefit from it greatly.

Skarmory

I honestly don't think you need to use a Specially Defensive Skarymory set. I mean, you already have Blissey to absorb all of the special attacks fired at Skarmory, while Skarmory is supposed to take on the physical attacks fired at Blissey. You are kind of lacking a physically defensive Pokemon other then Swampert, so I feel Skarmory should be used defensively. The set:

Skarmory @ Leftovers l Impish nature
252 HP / 64 Atk / 176 Def / 16 Spe
~ Spikes
~ Roost
~ Whirlwind
~ Brave Bird

I see that you feel that Swampert should leave the team because of the Pokemon you have mentioned, so I think there's one Pokemon you can try out and see if it works. The Pokemon would be Celebi, and the set looks like this:

Celebi @ Leftovers l Bold nature
252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
~ Grass Knot
~ Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
~ Stealth Rock
~ Recover

Since you already have two pHazers (Latias and Skarmory), I didn't mention Perish Song, although you can use it if you want. Celebi is a really underused lead, but it does exceptionally well in that position. It can set up Stealth Rock well with its great bulk and can aid the team against powerful physical threats, like Breloom (which your team seems to have a bit of a problem with). You can test if you like and see how it works, but I think Swampert is fine as is.

Hope I helped and good luck. :)

Thanks for the rate, I am going to test Calm Bliss and Impish Skarmory with 12 Spe Evs (to beat other skarms on the WW). I also like a lot Celebi lead, not the one you mentioned though.

Celebi @ Occa Berry
Timid, Natural Cure
80 HP 248 SpA 180 Spe
Stealth Rock
Leaf Storm
Earth Power
Hidden Power.

Thanks again and I will try all this!

Looks pretty good, and although I'm not extremely good at rating stall, I'd like to point one thing out.

Do not use Trick on Jirachi! Jirachi's purpose is to revenge Pokemon such as +1 Mence and Gyara, which you need your scarf for. Remove it for Ice Punch, so that you can reliably kill Mence.

Trick is my only way to beat last pokemon Crocune or Snorlax and Iron Head deals 42.90% on average to Mence, this can be a problem if he is jolly for the speed tie but trick is too valuable to change.

 

[ARandomDude]

When playing stall, there are certain stallbreakers one must worry about:

Kingdra
Boah
(Mix)Mence
Lucario
Infernape

Now how do you answer these?
1. Lets look at Kingdra. Hydro Pump, Draco Meteor to slap physical walls silly, Outrage and Waterfall to slap special walls silly. Kingdra could have any of these, in addition to Substitute and Dragon Dance.
With this ferocious moveset that slaughters almost all of stall, what are you going to do? The best answer to Kingdra is Toxic Spikes, which you currently do not have. The viable toxic spikers are Forretress and Tentacruel. I would suggest removing probably Latias for one of those. Latias is pursuit bait anyways.

Boah: Same as above. Nothing on stall can stop TTar from firing Flamethower/Focus Punch/Dark Pulse all day like Toxic Spikes can.

Salamence: Swampert works fine, just make sure you give him plenty of wishes so he can keep it up. Latias and Jirachi can revenge kill (but that is seriously not what stall wants to be doing).

Lucario: IMO the deadliest threat to stall. Immunity to TSpikes, immunity to SR for all practical purposes, and a moveset of CC, Crunch, and ES that basically eats stall for breakfast. Swampert, Jirachi work fine, but be sure to be passing wishes. Just don't get any ideas trying to use Latias to suck up a CC.

Infernape: Aha. Your team is nape weak, here's why:
Good stall tries to get up SR, Spikes, T Spikes, and sandstorm up for maximum residual damage. After Latias gets pursutied, Infernape has a field day. Right now, supposing you got full layers out, he would take 37.5% on entry. That gives him 7 turns to attack before Life Orb takes him out, so you need to predict perfectly 7 turns in a row, a hard feat even for IPL. Now, if you added sandstorm and toxic spikes, lets see what happens:
Turn 1: Nape comes in on SR, Spikesx3, gets poisoned and hit by sandstorm- loses 12.5+25+6.25=43.75%
Turn 2: Sandstorm+Poison+LO=43.75+6.25+6.25+10=66.25%
Turn 3: Sandstorm+Poison+LO=66.25+12.5+10=88.75%
Turn 4: Sandstorm+Poison+LO=88.75+18.25+10=DEAD

Thats almost half as much prediction and moving around.

So what do you need to fix?
1. Get a sandstormer
Hippowdon and TTar are you options. For the purpose of stall, Hippo is your best bet, put in the lead position in for Swampert. Access to recovery and scares Lucario much more than TTar ever could, and can phaze Salamence away. Solid phazer in general.
2. Get a toxic spiker
Replace Latias. This variant you have isn't suited for stall, and Pursuit takes her down too easily. Tentacruel can toxic spike and can stop Infernape's attempts to sweep, and duh, rapid spin.

And the final result is:

Feel free to PM with questions ^^

 

[animenagai]

Looks pretty good, and although I'm not extremely good at rating stall, I'd like to point one thing out.

Do not use Trick on Jirachi! Jirachi's purpose is to revenge Pokemon such as +1 Mence and Gyara, which you need your scarf for. Remove it for Ice Punch, so that you can reliably kill Mence.

I disagree, you just need to be careful with it. Every team should have some sort of plan against different team types. That includes stall vs stall. His team doesn't have a spinner which could mean a tough grind against other stall teams. If his rotom dies, it's over. It'll take a long time, but it's over :D. Trick can screw up other stall teams and at least give him a bit of an edge (and so does the flinch).

 

[Flashstorm1]

Hello. As a fairly recent user of balanced stall, I thought I could drop by and provide some suggestions for your team.

Now, on balanced stall teams like these, it is important to note any specific Pokémon that can give your team trouble, and I will take that into mind as I continue this rate. So, I can certainly tell you that no specific Pokémon are likely to cause you trouble, except for two: Gengar and Rotom-A. I feel like Gengar is an issue due to his versatility, and the fact that your only "safe" switch-in in Blissey, who cannot even do anything to Gengar outside of Thunder Wave. Rotom-A is also a problem, because the only thing on your team that can moderately hurt it, Latias and Swampert, are absolutely annihilated by its STAB Shadow Ball, and once again, Blissey isn't doing anything to it.

Since your main problem appears to be being unable to hit Ghost-types who can cause problems for your team (Gengar and Rotom-A), I feel that your team should be better equipped to handle both of these threats. For this reason, I am going to suggest that you replace Wish on Blissey with either Ice Beam or Flamethrower. I'm going to suggest Ice beam, as it allows you to hit Salamence who are brave enough to stay in, and is a decent neutral attack overall when paired with Seismic Toss. I don't find Wish that important on this team as the only Pokémon benefiting from it are Swampert and Rotom-H, which brings me to my next point..., but before that, also change Blissey's EV spread to Calm | 148 HP / 252 Def / 104 SpA. Using this EV spread allows Blissey to take physical hits slightly better, and you do not need as many Special Defense EVs as the analysis leads you to believe.

Currently, I feel that Dragon Dance Gyarados with Life Orb is going to be a HUGE issue for your team when you come across it, which you sort of addressed in Jirachi's description. Of course, you take good countermeasures against it with Stealth Rock on Swampert, but in any normal condition, I feel that Gyarados will be capable of taking out at least one Pokemon with it before you can safely switch in Jirachi. With the less physically inclined defensive spreads on both your Rotom-H and Skarmory, being able to switch into it because a whole lot harder, and the fact that your main response to it is Magnezone bait, I think you need an additional response to it on your team.

For the above reason, I'm going to suggest changing Rotom-H's moveset to a more defensive variant...

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Levitate | 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Thunderbolt / Will-O-Wisp / Rest / Sleep Talk

By changing to this set, you have a 100% counter to Gyarados, with the only way of it being able to beat you is if you are asleep and it Taunts you. Forretress with Payback would also be a problem if you continue to run the current set you are using, as without major defensive investment, Forretress can easily 2HKO Rotom-H, and if Rotom-H dies, Forretress will freely be able to ruin your team's strategy. I don't think Lucario will be too much of a problem (although it's something to watch out for), as Spikes will prevent it from switching in too repeatedly, and Jirachi can switch into it at least once and Swampert / Skarmory can beat it if it doesn't have Swords Dance set up, although I highly suggest playing safely against a Dragon Dance Salamence / Swords Dance Lucario combo in this case.

I think keeping Skarmory with the specially defensive EV spread will work, as you can set up Spikes on more stuff and you now have a counter to mono-attacking Latias, but I'm going to suggest running 20 Speed EVs. By doing so, you will outspeed most Choice Band Tyranitar and you can Roost before you get hit by the second Stone Edge, which is important if Swampert gets worn down early game.

Another minor nitpick is to give Swampert Ice Punch over Avalanche. Avalanche will only be doing more damage than Ice Punch if the opponent lands an attack on your beforehand, and you don't want Swampert staying in on Latias by any means.

Overall, you have a pretty solid team here, and I hope my suggestions will be of help to you. Good luck, and don't be afraid to PM me with any more questions you may have.

 

[tobi10]

Changes so far are:

Blissey @ Leftovers l Calm nature
252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
~ Softboiled
~ Seismic Toss ( I need it for Empoleon)
~ Toxic
~ Flamethrower

Ice Punch on Swampert, changed Rotom-C´s Spread and moveset (not rotom-h but that doesnt matters).

A guy in other site,(Kir, the Blissey, known as Stauffen here) suggested me Starmie @ Life Orb
Timid
Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
over Latias, and I am definitely going for it.

Changed Skarmory´s speed to 20.

Thanks for all the rates so far, I am currently testing Celebi.

 

[ARandomDude]

Changes so far are:

Blissey @ Leftovers l Calm nature
252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
~ Softboiled
~ Seismic Toss ( I need it for Empoleon)
~ Toxic
~ Flamethrower

Ice Punch on Swampert, changed Rotom-C´s Spread and moveset (not rotom-h but that doesnt matters).

A guy in other site,(Kir, the Blissey, known as Stauffen here) suggested me Starmie @ Life Orb
Timid
Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
over Latias, and I am definitely going for it.

Changed Skarmory´s speed to 20.

Thanks for all the rates so far, I am currently testing Celebi.

Swampert wants Ice Beam over Ice Punch. Here's why:
Vs 0/0 salamence
Ice Beam
206 Atk vs 196 Def & 331 HP (95 Base Power): 288 - 340 (87.01% - 102.72%) (OHKO after SR)
Ice Punch (Intimidate)
170 Atk vs 196 Def & 331 HP (75 Base Power): 188 - 224 (56.80% - 67.67%)

Let us go further:
Vs Bulky Mence (252/180/0)
Ice Beam
206 Atk vs 196 Def & 394 HP (95 Base Power): 288 - 340 (73.10% - 86.29%)(OHKO after SR 86%)
Ice Punch (Intimidated)
170 Atk vs 241 Def & 394 HP (75 Base Power): 156 - 184 (39.59% - 46.70%) (not even a 2HKO w/o SR)

What else does Ice hit hard? Oh yeah, Gliscor
Gliscor (252/0/0)
Ice Beam
206 Atk vs 186 Def & 354 HP (95 Base Power): 304 - 360 (85.88% - 101.69%) (87% chance of KO after SR)
Ice Punch
256 Atk vs 286 Def & 354 HP (75 Base Power): 196 - 232 (55.37% - 65.54%)
He can roost stall you, especially if he has sandstorm to go with sand veil.

 

[tobi10]

Thanks for those calcs defintely Ice Beam will be my Ice move of choice on Swampert.

 

[Kir]

I'm agreeing with everything Flashstorm said. Ice Punch is definitey better, as your (our?) team really appreciates hitting Latias harder on the switch, and besides, factoring in Salamence's Intimidate into those calcs is ridiculous. Generally speaking, Salamence will only switch in on Swampert if he can KO Swampert with Draco Meteor or Outrage after Swampert has taken prior damage, meaning Swampert doesn't even get to attack anyway. Without Intimidate, Swampert's Ice punch:

256 Atk vs 196 Def & 331 HP (75 Base Power): 284 - 336 (85.80% - 101.51%)

so you're fine. Use Ice Punch.

And I'm glad you liked the Starmie idea. It really helps beat stall, which was this team's biggest weakness before.

I've been using RestTalk Rotom, as Flashtorm suggested, and I think it is definitely the best set for this team. Without it, lead Roserade will cause you a lot of problems (not to mention Gyarados!).

I g2g now, hopefully I can catch up with you on shoddy later :D

 

[tobi10]

For those who don´t know, Stauffen and I built exactly the same team without help, so it is easy to understand each others team.
Everybody have been so nice, thanks all of you, really I appreciate it.