RMT [Stall]

[ARandomDude]

My friend told me a few days ago that I was just not an offensive player since I preferred healing on all my guys. As such, we worked on a stall team. This is not that team, because it failed. This is a new team I made, and its ability to stall is quite good.

Changes are in Bold.

The Process
There were Pokemon that I already knew would be on this team: Rotom-C, Blissey, and Hippowdon. TTar is not as good for stall teams as Hippowdon is IMO.

That left the Spiker, Toxic Spiker, Rapid Spinner, and a generic threat counter. The two good spikers are Skarmory and Forrestress. Skarmory had healing and phazing, while Forretress could rapid spin as well as Toxic Spike. In the end, I chose Skarmory because I had trouble getting all 5 layers of Spikes/Toxic Spikes down on my previous team.

It eventually came down to Tentacruel vs Forretress for the combined role of toxic spiker+rapid spinner. I chose Tentacruel because getting Forretress would make my team much more Infernape weak.

Scizor popped into my head as a good bulky threat counter with recovery (that's pretty rare).

Scizor got replaced by Gyarados for his bulkiness and ability to address more threats, as per the suggestion of mc2094.

At a Glance:

Hippowdon@Leftovers
252 HP, 168 Def, 88 SpD
Impish
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock
-Roar
-Slack Off
This guy initiates my game, bringing in the sandstorm and getting stealth rocks most of the time. Roar is a phazing move that makes full use of my entry hazards. Slack off for recovery. This guy is a solid counter to TTar, Lucario, and Salamence, earthquaking the first two and roaring the latter. Also a good physical wall in general.

Gyarados@Leftovers
248 HP, 252 Def, 8 Spe
Impish
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
Gyarados is a nice counter to Infernape and Lucario, as well as a status absorber. I use Dragon Dance over Earthquake, Stone Edge, or Roar, to use the words of mc2094, because:

See, almost every stall team has a curse Swampert, Crocune, or some other pokemon that can set up against other stall teams. If they don't, they don't have any way to stop the other stall. With Dragon Dance Gyara, you can let every other member of your team die off and set up Gyara without any chance of your opponent phazing you. All you must do is get rid of any T-bolt users, mainly Rotom-a. Without DD, you have no way to beat other stall teams.

Skarmory@Shed Shell
248 HP, 28 Atk, 216 Def, 16 Spe
Impish
-Spikes
-Roost
-Whirlwind
-Drill Peck
Skarmory on a stall team? WTF? Skarmory functions in much the same way as Hippowdon, setting up entry hazards then phazing. Skarmory counters TTar, Gyarados, and many other threatening sweepers. The defense EVs give me an extra point after Impish, 16 speed reaches 180 to outrun stuff like Scizor and Metagross, and the rest went into special defense. I moved the special defense EVs into attack for extra kick on Drill Peck. The moves are pretty obvious, and Shed Shell over Leftovers because I seriously do not want to lose Skarmory to Magnezone.

Tentacruel@Leftovers
252 HP, 120 Def, 136 SpD
Calm
-Surf
-Rapid Spin
-Toxic Spikes
-Rest
To start off, no toxic spikers have instant recovery, so that ticked me off. That's why Rest is here. Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes have obvious applications on a stall team. Knock Off really ticks off ghosts who try to block my spin. Knock Off was replaced by Surf to counter Infernape better. Tentacruel is the best answer I have to Infernape, as Life Orb+Sandstorm+Pretty Pathetic Damage really takes its toll.

Blissey@Leftovers
24 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spe, 208 SpA, 20 SpD
Bold
-Softboiled
-Aromatherapy
-Ice Beam
-Toxic
Blissey on a stall team? What am I thinking? Well, Blissey is THE best special wall. I needed a cleric to heal the status Hippowdon Scizor and Skarmory will take throughout the battle, and the sleep that Tentacruel sends himself into. Thunder Wave really pisses off stuff like Salamence and Gyarados who think its safe to start Dragon Dancing. Seismic Toss is the most reliable move for Blissey. Thunder Wave was replaced by Toxic to add to the idea of residual damage. Ice Beam is so I don't get walled by Gengar. The special attack EVs allow me to OHKO Salamence and Dugtrio, while breaking a 0/0 Kingdra Sub, so Blissey doesn't become setup fodder.

Rotom-C@Leftovers
252 HP, 120 Def, 136 SpD
Bold
-Thunderbolt
-Will-O-Wisp
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
My spin blocker. With my team members working so hard to keep the entry damage high, Rotom-C is here to make sure their efforts don't go to waste. Discharge is here over Thunderbolt because the risk of Paralysis is nice, so its harder for stuff to set up while I'm taking a nap. Rotom can also act as a status absorber and a Gyarados counter. I'm considering changing to the more balanced defensive spread (252 HP 120 Def 136 SpD Bold) because Will-O-Wisp loves to miss on me...opinions? I did change to this more defensive spread.

Final Comments: This team hates Choice trickers. Usually I let Hippowdon or Scizor be the choice target, but they really are still much less effective. Everyone on this team has its own recovery, so wish passing is not as necessary.

So, rate and hate away!

 

[mc2094]

Here are the problems- no poke to take Trick( this will break your stall ), very few of your poke have any attacking moves and lack coverage, weak to Infernape because Tentacruel can't KO, weak to other stall teams

To start, change your Rotom to a scarf set.

Rotom-c@ choice scarf
Timid
4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spe
-Leaf Storm/ Rest
-Trick
-T-bolt
-Shadow Ball

This should make it easier to deal with trick users. You might want to try HP Ice since it can let you get the jump on Salamence. Timid allows you to outspeed several other scarfers and the extra power isn't needed for this team. Scizor isn't that great here so I would suggest this:

Gyarados@ Leftovers
Impish
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SDef
-DD
-Waterfall
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

This will let you have a way to beat other stall teams and function as your status absorber. Also gives you a better way to deal with things like SD Lucario who can be quite a threat.

Brave Bird is better than Drill Peck on Skarm as it has much more power and the recoil is no reason to not use it.

Tentacruel shouldn't have Knock off since most stall teams take advantage of choice items and life orb. Tentacruel should always have his STAB surf and another attacking move in order to hit common switch ins. Sludge Bomb hits Gyarados, Salamence, and other poke for nuetral damage while Ice Beam is for specific targets.

Good Luck

 

[Snorlaxe]

This looks like you put a lot of thought into this team, so kudos for that. However, on closer inspection, I notice that most of the damage that your team will cause is from residual damage and entry hazards. While this is reliable enough, you might want to consider taking Scizor's EVs and set, and then changing him into a Life Orb Swords Dance variant. You can still keep the Celebi counter thing (X-Scissor instead of U-Turn), but the set would be changed. Heres a better look:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/scizor

Good luck! :)

 

[tab]

mc covered pretty much everything I was going to suggest, there's just a couple of different changes I'd make.

Firstly, don't use a Scarf on Rotom - you're really going to need it to be able to stick around in order to Spin block and counter the Pokemon that Rotom covers for you properly, and it needs a RestTalk set to do that reliably enough for stall teams. The only changes I'd make would be to go with the Bold spread in the analysis, which uses 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD, as you're generally going to be requiring Rotom to take physical hits rather than special ones, and to use Thunderbolt over Discharge. The additional power of Thunderbolt is really useful, and you don't want Discharge's high paralysis to interfere with your use of Will-o-Wisp and Toxic Spikes.

I'd definately follow mc's advice of replacing Scizor with Gyarados. While Scizor on stall can be really useful (I used it in stage 3, and loved it), I don't think the current OU metagame makes it useful enough to warrant its use here, while RestTalk Gyara is an incredibly useful Pokemon, countering most of the problem pokemon that you'll encounter (Lucario, Infernape in particular), as well as helping out hugely against opposing stall teams.

Rather than using mc's EV spread, I'd go with 252 HP/248 Def/8 Spe. RestTalk Gyara usually uses 4 Speed, and going one point further than that guarentee's that you'll be winning the majority of would-be speed ties against opposing stall teams, which really helps you to build up Spikes damage. Losing 1 Defense and Special Defense is more or less completely insignificant, the extra speed is definately worth it imo.

On Tentacruel, you're going to be wanting to have Surf over Knock Off if you're only going with one attack, so that Tentacruel can deal with Pokemon like Infernape when necesarry.

Finally, Blissey. Personally, I always prefer Wish+Protect over Softboiled+Aromatheraphy on stall, being able to throw up Wishes early to help the rest of the team switch into attacks aimed at Blissey is incredibly useful, as is the ability to heal up weakened members and scout out Pokemon like CBTar with Pursuit. However, Softboiled is a perfectly useable option, so it's not really an important issue. I'd definately replace Thunder Wave, you're not going to get much use out of it that you wouldn't get from another attack already, and it's going to interfere with your Toxic Spikes use. The best choice of status for Blissey on stall teams would be Toxic, which is great for hitting bulky Pokemon that are difficult to take out, as well as for hitting predicted switches to Salamence in particular, which can be an absolute nightmare for stall teams like this.

Another option to look at would be Ice Beam. Currently, there's a lot of teams that rely on Salamence as their main method of beating stall, and Ice Beam makes Mence quite a bit more manageable, especially as you aren't using a Swampert. Using Ice Beam also means that you can hit Rotom, as Sub+Charge Beam Rotom with Toxic Spikes support is incredibly difficult for stall to deal with, especially when your Blissey can't even touch its Subs (it's not as huge an issue here as it would be though, as your Tentacruel absorbs Toxic Spikes).

Finally, I'd go with a Calm nature on Blissey. With 252 EVs, it can already take the odd physical hit well enough without going for a Bold nature, and the increased Special Defense from Calm is incredibly useful in dealing with some of the big special threats that are in DPP.

Good luck!

 

[mtr]

All right, since you rated my team, I'll return the favor:

Hippowdon is cool.

Scizor is cool.

Skarmory: Drill Peck isn't good because of pathetic damage output. Use Brave Bird or use Taunt to strike switch-ins attempting to set up on you. Don't worry about being defeated by Bulky Tauntrados. Honestly, it rapes Skarmory with Drill Peck, so you won't be doing anything much to it anyways.

Tentacruel: Surf over Knock Off. While I was writing Tentacruel's analysis, "Chris is me" and I had a long discussion over the use of Knock Off. To be honest, it is a double-edged sword. What happens if you Knock Off a Choice Scarf? You just set back your cause quite a bit. If you knock off a Life Orb, it again makes it harder to wear the foe down. A stall team should be able to turn these offensive tools into advantages for itself.

Blissey: we disagreed earlier about the use of Toxic versus Thunder Wave. Since you said that Thunder Wave is for Gyarados and Salamence, it's time to ask yourself: what can you do to a paralyzed Gyarados/Salamence that you can't do to them normally? Either way, Scizor can handle a weakened Salamence. Either way, Gyarados will defeat your Hippowdon or cripple it. On a team without much of an offensive presence, Toxic is better. The most you can hope for a paralysis is to allow Rotom-C to strike first with Discharge.

Rotom-C: W-o-W, on the other hand, really helps a stall team. I would use the standard spread: 76 Def EV's and a Bold nature to better take hits from Gyarados, though, unless you have a specific reason for using the spread you have.

 

[ARandomDude]

Thanks for the rates guys. I will definitely change Rotom to 252HP/120Def/136SpD Bold, with Thunderbolt over Discharge.

Tentacruel is going to lose Knock Off for an attack. Surf and Sludge Bomb both have their advantages, with Surf hitting TTar and Infernape for super effective, while sludge bomb hits celebi, gyarados, and salamence for neutral. The choice of attack will probably depend on what I do with Scizor.

Some of you suggested Gyarados over Scizor. There are multiple layers of complexity on this. Gyarados, besides Resttalk and Waterfall, can run Earthquake, Stone Edge, Dragon Dance, and Roar, all of which have their advantages. If I end up switching in Gyara, Tentacruel will get Sludge Bomb.
I have used Stone Edge, Dragon Dance, and Roar variants before. The Dragon Dance is probably out, since that's not exactly stall (while I do think it is quite effective for bulky offense). Stone Edge hits other Gyarados, while Roar blends into my strategy of phazing around. By the way, Gyarados wants 248 HP so he can switch into SR 5 times (keep in mind sandstorm will be up).
I have also considered this Vaporeon:
Vaporeon@Leftovers
188 HP, 252 Def, 68 SpA, Bold
-Protect
-Wish
-Surf
-Toxic/HP Electric/Roar
The protect lets me scout. Vappy counters Infernape quite nicely. Toxic can screw over stuff like threats like Gyarados and Salamence, as well as bulky opponents,while HP Electric increases my damage output against some enemies. Roar lets me phaze.

Blissey is losing TWave for Toxic. The question is whether I want to keep Seismic Toss or run Ice Beam (I'm thinking S-Toss but I'm open to suggestions).

 

[mc2094]

One thing, when I mentioned Sludge Bomb, I meant as a secondary attack in place of rest. Surf is a must on him and should be considered over knock off. Rest is useful so it depends whether if you go with tab's suggestion on wish bliss( I think you should ), then you can definatley give Tentacruel Sludge Bomb or Ice Beam in place of rest.

I have used Stone Edge, Dragon Dance, and Roar variants before. The Dragon Dance is probably out, since that's not exactly stall (while I do think it is quite effective for bulky offense).

See, almost every stall team has a curse Swampert, Crocune, or some other pokemon that can set up against other stall teams. If they don't, they don't have any way to stop the other stall. With Dragon Dance Gyara, you can let every other member of your team die off and set up Gyara without any chance of your opponent phazing you. All you must do is get rid of any T-bolt users, mainly Rotom-a. Without DD, you have no way to beat other stall teams.

I don't see the point of vappy tbh. You already counter Infernape, and have ways to deal with both Gyara and Mence, and have toxic on Bliss and toxic spikes.

As for Blissey, Ice Beam is better since it gives more coverage and doesn't get walled by Sub Rotom-A and Sub Gengar.

With all of those changes, I see only one problems, Trick users. I suppose Hippowdon is your best option and Blissey can always wish pass if he can't manage to use slack off. Just be careful against Rotom-c. He can KO Hippowdon with Leaf Storm and can always cripple something else with trick.

 

[ARandomDude]

Makes perfect sense mc, thanks ^^