RMT, Standard play.

Well, hello everyone, I'm glad I finaly have something to post here, since I always wanted to have exterior opinions on my team building. Anyways, what stopped me from doing so until now was that I was still on the smogon tournament so I didn't want my team to be revealed.

Before I start, let me tell you that I'm aware of the fact that this team has flaws. The thing is, I played it so much that I just can't find anything to change by myself. If I have to take the risk to break the synergy I created, I'd better ask people for help so that it's not just pointless changes.

That's where your role comes to play, I'm pretty sure someone here has any advice to share or at least comments to give.

This may be the third or fourth team I created on Shoddy and the only one that had real success so far, winning about 4 games out of 5. When I first elaborated it, I really had no goal in mind, I was just regrouping roles and types of pokemon along with some favorites of mine, and it really turned out good.

So here it is, the team that allowed me to be in the TOP16 of the last Smogon Tournament, I'm going to post the whole thing, and then I'll discuss it.

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Staraptor@Choice Band
Jolly
Intimidate
6hp 252atk 252speed
-Brave Bird
-Close Combat
-Quick Attack
-U-turn

I seriously love this thing as a lead, even if when you look at the shoddy top leads it doesn't look like it will do okay. This bird actually always do something before switching out:
-intimidates any opposing physical lead
-threatens a lot with Choice banded Brave Bird and Close Combat, potential OHKOs
-deals damage with Choice Banded u-turn when it has to switch against anything slower
-it can even U-turn on a guaranteed OHKO on the opposite lead, because there is no way (barring leads using detect or protect) that the opponent is going to stay on turn 1 if he has a big chance to die (I must watch out for scarfers and focus sashers however).

But it's not only good as a lead, despite being weak to very common attacks (ice/rock/electric) and taking 25% off Stealth Rock, it can switch in on useful immunities (Ground and Ghost) and threaten right away with its powerful moves always coming with an intimidate. Finaly, it's an okay revenge killer with its speed, intimidate, and a last resort Quick Attack which can finish off something that I may have let set up, a surprise Focus Sasher, or when my actual counter for X pokemon is dead.

The only dilemma regarding this bird may be the choice (heh) between Choice Band and Choice Scarf, but I just can't remember a time when the extra damage was unnecessery, or when I needed more speed.

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Gengar@Choice Scarf
Modest
Levitate
64hp 252spatk 194speed
-Shadow Ball
-ThunderBolt
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power ice

When I first saw the idea of ScarfGar, I seriously found it very dumb. Now I'm the dumbest trainer ever for not seeing and using it's great potential before this team.

First of all, it is a good U-turn recipient against many pokemons (I'll cover this later), and a great revenge killer. Outspeeds and OHKO any Flying/Dragon with HP ice, well, I don't have to sum up everything it does, the moveset is pretty self explanatory. I chose four attacks for coverage, as I don't want to be walled by anything else not named Blissey. Putting hypnosis here seems pointless, I already overuse Sleep Powder on Roserade, and I hate being locked into something that's not an attack.

Great Pokemon seriously, scores a lot of early and late game KOs.

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Blastoise@Leftovers
Calm
Torrent
252hp 6def 252spdef
-Rapid Spin
-Surf
-Toxic
-Mirror Coat

Haa, my favourite pokemon of all, by using it in almost every of my teams, I finaly came with what I think is its best use.
Surf is here for a reliable stab attack with decent PP. Hydro pump is tempting some times, but I don't see it doing okay when I have to stall a litle, or deal a finishing blow just to see it missing.
Rapid Spin well, spins, and is my only way of removing spikes/rocks.
Toxic is for doing actually something to fellow water types and walls. It also surprises some switch ins.
Finaly Mirror Coat is my favourite tool on this dude. I could copy/paste countless logs when I score an instant KO thanks to it. Here are some coming from the last Smogon tournament (the players have been eliminated, so no team spoiling). These logs are not the best examples, but it's all I have. The given EVs and calm nature are to make sure that I can Mirror Coat even the strongest SE attacks.

Jayce switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Blastoise was hurt by Spikes!
Blastoise lost 12% of its health.
Blissey used Ice Beam.
It's not very effective...
Blastoise lost 6% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
duckman switched in Zapdos (lvl 100 Zapdos).
Zapdos is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Zapdos.
Zapdos lost 25% of its health.
Blastoise used Toxic.
Blastoise's attack missed!
Zapdos's leftovers restored its health a little!
Zapdos restored 6% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
---
Zapdos used Thunderbolt.
It's super effective!
Blastoise lost 48% of its health.
Blastoise used Mirror Coat.
Zapdos lost 81% of its health.
duckman's Zapdos fainted.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
backlot switched in Gengar (lvl 100 Gengar ?).
Pointed stones dug into Gengar.
Gengar lost 12% of its health.
Blastoise used Toxic.
Blastoise's attack missed!
The sandstorm rages.
Gengar is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Gengar lost 6% of its health.
Blastoise is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blastoise lost 6% of its health.
Gengar's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Gengar restored 6% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
---
Gengar used Shadow Ball.
Blastoise lost 28% of its health.
Blastoise used Mirror Coat.
Gengar lost 76% of its health.
backlot's Gengar fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Blastoise is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blastoise lost 6% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
I actually think that when they see Toxic, opponents completely exclude the possibility that Blastoise also carries Mirror Coat, allowing me to score early KOs. The thing is, in a very fast paced metagame like D/P, it is very likely to see impulsive and evident switch ins to something able to do SE hits on Blastoise just to be mirror coated. When your team is not completely revealed, and something like gengar, starmie, zapdos, zone switches in on Blastoise, they are more likely to use the most predictable attack so early in the game, and that's when you can mirror coat them to death.

But actually, the given EVs and nature allows it to play mindgames against experienced or careful players who may try to setup or do something on the switch. Blastoise is not 2HKOed by many special threats, and can Surf or Toxic on something that it is likely to flee from, just to mirror coat and faint it the next turn. I realy have a lot of fun playing it. It is the closest thing to a special wall in this team.

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Steelix@Leftovers
Impish
Rock Head
252hp 120atk 136spdef
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang
-Stealth Rock
-Roar

Physical wall, and a rather impressive one. Taking only 10-15% on Garchomp's unboosted Outrages is something worth mentioning. Two of its weaknesses (Fire and Water) are covered by Blastoise, and they have to be special hits to do correct damage thanks to Steelix huge defense stat, amplyfying the synergy between my two "walls".
EQ is good because it allows me to win some EQ wars against things that underestimate Steelix's defenses, but I'll cover that in the threat coverage afterwards.
Ice fang is cool to finish off the outraging garchomp locked in its move, or the specsmence that wants to end your fun and switch on you (I won't stay against it however).
SR is very good as I have many opportunities to set it up when I'm facing a Pokemon that I completely wall.
Roar is my only phazing possibility and it is useful and unexpected. I often catch stats uppers off guard when they become greedy and do one more, and I can mess with switches by roaring them right away scoring some SR damage.

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Roserade@Focus Sash
Timid
Natural Cure
6hp 252spatk 252speed
-Leaf Storm
-Hidden Power Fire
-Sludge Bomb
-Sleep Powder

Grass/Poison type to extend my type coverage. Sleep Powder allows me to catch many slower walls and switch accordingly, as I'm not threatened by any status thanks to natural cure. Leaf Storm is strong, very strong. HP fire
is there for those steel types who think they can wall me (steel/insect types cry against that), and sludge bomb is a more reliable no stat dropping attack even if its type coverage is poor.

I don't have much to say about it, I feel that I need it because it absorbs toxic spikes, is immune to leech seed, and can OHKO many stuff that my team can't handle otherwise.
It's focus sash acts as a last resort option when I completely screw up my game, I can burn it on something that is pretty confident of OHKOing me just to be fainted in return thanks to the sash.

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Salamence@Life Orb
Mild
Intimidate
120atk 252spatk 136speed
-Brick Break
-Crunch
-Fire Blast
-Draco Meteor

When thinking about a last member of my team, I seriously thought I needed something incredibly strong and overused to balance my frail lineup. Mixmence came to mind as it can by itself score A LOT of KOs. Anything that switches in or stay expecting any version of Mence will be damaged
a lot by special/physical attacks, and that anytime I can put this dragon into play.

Again, not much to say, Mixmence is pretty common and it's effectiveness is not to prove.



well, I can imagine what you're thinking right now, Blastoise? Steelix? Staraptor? Is that even competitive? Well I can assure you it fared well more than I could have ever expected.

About the team in general now, what I really feel and see it lacking is durability. When the game lasts and I just can't score the needed KOs, I'm slowly worn down by continuous switches on rocks/spikes, or just on opposing attacks.
Then, my playstyle goes according to this, I get predictable on the first turns, just to unleash everything I can in mid-game.
When I know the full roster I'm up against, I can start to think who I can sacrifice and create the combo that has the better chances of winning in late-game.
Another issue is the need of almost every member of my team to reduce the damage I can take. When someone like Steelix is down early, I really have troubles maintaining pressure and damage and often have to sacrifice pokemons just to lose in the end.
On the contrary, when an offensive threat like Scarfgar goes down, a lot of my coverage is lost and I'm sometimes stuck not being able to kill what I should be able to if my team was complete.
So the games I actually win are either completely well played by me, using my team synergy at its maximum.
When scenario 1 is impossible, it turns out in sacrifice war, when every move can turn the tide, and I'm just playing with favorable matchups until one of us is out of pokemons.

Keep in mind that I'm aware that my team hasn't a great defensive coverage, but the way I play it I manage to either wall okay with either Blastoise or Steelix or play with my other pokemons' resistances and immunities. If i manage to have my 6 alive in mid-game and fainted some of my opponent's pokemons, I can start playing more offensively and sacrifice some of my own. I think the playstyle and synergy is hard to understand when you don't test the team yourself (wich won't seem as successful at first because of no experience with it).

Steelix and Blastoise are not durable walls, their role is to eat an attack or two, provoking a switch or scouting attacks so that I can play attack or switch accordingly to the information I have.




Let's move on to the Staraptor Lead coverage (according to Shoddy's top february leads):

Gengar:
Due to Gengar unpredictabiliy, my best bet is to switch to Roserade to absorb a potential sleep or Tbolt and then to Blastoise for mirror coat action (or just directly to Blastoise on turn 1). This way I can have clues on its item and react accordingly.

Gyarados:
U-turn to Gengar who can OHKO Dos with Tbolt. Even if Dos attacks or Dances, it either won't do enough damage thanks to previous intimidate, or just be slower thanks to my scarf.

Tyranitar:
I'm at an advantage here because everyone knows that Staraptor carries Close Combat, my usual thing is to U-turn to steelix. This way, I can scout for his switch, or ruin his sash (because the only reason an opposing TTar would stay in is because it is sashed right?). And if he stays, he would have danced or thrown a Stone Edge at me, doing poor damage to steelix whose earthquake finishes the job and TTar.

Bronzong:
U-turn to Roserade. If stealth rock or missed hypnosis, I Sleep Powder it. If hypnosis hits, I directly switch to Mence to threaten it with Fire Blast.

Salamence:
Gaaah, tough one, I don't have a surefire playstyle against this. My usual switch is to Blastoise but it just can't survive against Specsmence so it's a lost cause. If by chance draco meteor misses or it appears not to be a Specsmence, I have a better shot with Blastoise, as my opponent can think it can carry Ice beam, or can just be mirror coated to death.

Hippowdon:
U-turn to Roserade. Followed by a sleep powder on the switch (Hippo won't stay on a Full powered leaf storm).

Ninjask:
Funny matchup, quick attack first turn, if it doesn't pass it's first speed boost right away it's dead. Against experienced players I tend to switch to Steelix so that I can roar whatever he wants is boosts passed to.

Yanmega:
Switch to Blastoise, and Mirror Coat action. That's my only way to deal with the bug, if it hypnosises me and I don't wake up I'm doomed, even if Yanmega's attacks aren't that strong against Blastoise. I'm having a lot of trouble against Yanmega leads.

Weavile:

Switch to Steelix, if it Sword Dances i roar it right away, if not, I have time to set up rocks.

Abomasnow:
Brave bird or U-turn, chances are he will protect first turn scouting my move, and switch accordingly. So my best bet is to either Strike hard with BB but risk to hit a physical wall, or U-turn to Blastoise expecting an ice attack, and then to Roserade to eat the leech seed or grass attack and threaten with Sleep Powder, HP fire or Sludge Bomb.

Swampert:

U-turn to Roserade. Followed by a sleep powder on the switch (Swampy won't stay on a Full powered leaf storm).

Azelf:
Switch to Blastoise I guess, this way I can scout its item according to the damage it deals, and mirror coat/switch accordingly.

Roserade:
Didn't face much, but chances are it's scarfed or sashed. So I either switch or U-turn to roserade. Risks are diferent in both cases, I can have my lead put to sleep, or my Plant damaged. I tend to switch to roserade so that I'm sure or not if his is scarfed.

Crobat:

Switch to Blastoise, it won't be able to KO me and i'd rather have him put to sleep.

Infernape:
Switch to Blastoise as well, chances are Nape won't Close combat on turn 1 against an intimidate Flying/Normal that could be scarfed and OHKO him. If it does stay, thunderpunch doesn't do much to Blastoise, Nasty plotted Grass knot can be mirror coated, and Close combat on turn 2 won't kill me whereas my surf will faint him.

Metagross:

U-turn to Steelix, this way I can scout for its item. If it is not choiced, I EQ him once with Steelix to see if I can win the EQ war, and switch to one of my three pokemon immune to ground to finish him off.

Zapdos:
U-turn to Steelix, roar it if it's statting up, Stealth rock if it tried to attack. HP ice will hurt you but won't 3HKO.

Jolteon:
Switch to Steelix and roar right away. Chances are he would have Sub on turn 1, and HP ice on the second so you would both have lost ~~25%.

Ambipom:
Never faced one, Switch to Steelix I guess and play according to its item/moveset. Roar if it Nasty Plots, Stealth Rock if it fakes out, etc...

Breloom:

My team has troubles dealing with Breloom, but I'm actually at an advantage if it's leading. I can either BB or U-turn (kind of like against protect Abomasnow) with two different consequences.


Not the best lead, but not the worst right?




Now with the threat list. (Keep in mind that the playstyle will be full of switches, so a surefire counter isn't always the solution).


Gyarados - Gengar owns it okay with scarfed tbolt.

Infernape
- Blastoise is my best bet.

Azelf - Blastoise on the switch, Gengar on the revenge.

Electivire - Steelix if it does not carry Flamethrower, I'm in "trouble" otherwise.

Heracross - Hard one, my best bet is to predict its choiced attack and switch to either Gengar or Steelix.

Salamence - Blastoise on the switch, Gengar on the revenge. But anyways, I'm very specsmence weak, I'm often running a sacrifice marathon against it, hoping to overpredict or wear it down enough with Stealth Rock.

Togekiss - Blastoise have lots of fun messing with it. I just Toxic it once, and then mirror coat hoping one will hit in this paraflinch paradise.

Gengar - Blastoise on the switch, Gengar on the revenge or the eventual Focus Blast prediction.

Garchomp - Steelix on the switch, Gengar on the revenge.

Lucario - Blastoise on the first switch, special versions are pretty well covered by my tortoise. Physical versions are a pain though, and I often have to predict immunities or revenge kill it.

Starmie - Blastoise Mirror Coats it okay, Gengar revenges kill.

Weavile - Steelix walls it okay excepted Brick Break, and if it's not choiced and is likely to BB, I can switch to something else if I feel threatened. Blastoise does okay against Weavile too.

Dugtrio - Steelix is not OHKOED and can deal some damage.

PorygonZ - Blastoise is my best bet as long as I don't know its item. If it is scarfed I can wall him enough to mirror coat it, IF it is not, I can revenge kill it with Staraptor.

Machamp - Prediction is the key, I can either "wall" him with my two "walls" or OHKO with Staraptor.

Snorlax - Hmm Staraptor threatens it, Steelix roars it.

Zapdos - Steelix roars it, and Blastoise Mirror coats it. Gengar can also threaten once Zapdos has lost some hp because of SR.

Suicune - I tend to scout his moveset with Blastoise by stalling it with some Mirror Coat/Toxic. If it hasn't Sleep talk, I wait for it to rest and Roar it away with Steelix.

Breloom - I never know what to do against it. I can surprise him with roserade's sash once, but then I'm screwed. My best situation would be to predict it switching in, and switch at the same time to either gengar raptor or roserade. But if I don't predict that I have like or four lives against it.
1: Roserade's sash
2: Gengar switch in number1
3: Gengar switch in number2
4: Mence switch in number 1
after that, I'm too low on HP and can't survive its attacks. And this has to be done with either Blastoise or Steelix asleep.

Slaking - Steelix walls it okay.

Ninjask - Staraptor quick attacks or Steelix roaring. It is then rampaged by Stealth Rock Damage.

Metagross - Hmm, it depends. I often face it with either Blastoise or Steelix depending on its hp. Then i finish it with Raptor Gengar or Salamence.

Heatran - Blastoise does okay, repeated switches won't do me good however.

Jirachi - Steelix walls some versions of it, and I can kill it with almost anyone.

Dragonite - Blastoise or Steelix on the switch, Gengar on the revenge kill.

Mamoswine - Blastoise does okay at absorbing ice shards and threatens with surf.

Gallade
- Staraptor.

Yanmega - As mentioned in the lead section, Yanmega is a bitch, if it leads and hypnosises my Blastoise I'm a goner.

Kingdra - Blastoise Toxic it and take some hits under rain, then I finish it with anything faster while the rain is gone or a CB quick attack if I have no other choices.

Roserade - My own Roserade heh.

Scizor - Roserade or Mence.

Tyranitar
- Steelix walls any version and dents it, the five other can deal the finishing blow.

Hippo - Roserade and Blastoise threaten it.

Swampert
- Roserade.

Blissey - I actually find Steelix to be a very good Blissey switch in if she hasn't Flamethrower, being immune to Twave and Toxic. It is another opportunity to set SR, and switch (on a Stoss, Wish, Softboiled, Aroma or Calm mind) to Staraptor. I'd rather not EQ with Steelix early in the game as with my EV spread it's only about 35% damage but the opponent won't know this and may switch out expecting more damage.

Celebi - Roserade is often faster, and puts it to sleep if possible. Or just threatens it with Sludge bomb or HP fire.

Cresselia - Staraptor U-turns, Gengar shadowballs, and Steelix/Blastoise take hits okay.




For those who read to this point, I'm sorry if the post is a little messy. But I hope some opinions will arise from all this. I probably forgot things I wanted to say at first, but there are enough elements to work with. I'm willing to change anything as long as its well and rationally explained.
Finaly, forgive my English, it's not my main language.

Thanks,

Jayce,
 
I would use roost on salamence over crunch, cresselia is not a problem for this team and dusknoir isn't really worth it. this also would help a little against the incredibly common sweeper lucario which like you said, your team has trouble with. along with roost, have salamence at 280 speed to outspeed physical lucario which are generally adamant. I would also just go ahead and max speed on gengar. other than that i like the team and congrats on top 16 in st4
 
Has focus sash on a non-lead pokemon helped you out that much since sandstorm is so common? Also your team has a bit of an Infernape weakness with your best switchin being Blastoise who has no healing moves.
 
At a glance the team doesn't look threatening at all, but when you take certain things into consideration this team is beastly. Playing off each others weaknesses, misleading your foe, and ScarfGar fury.

Max speed on ScarfGar will be more beneficial as it allows you to beat other ScarfGars, MotorDrive Jolly Electivire, and Jolly Ninjask.

Keeping all members of your team as long as possible is crucial to your success as you have stated in your post.

This team would be more menacing with a bit of Paralysis support. Since you are sacrificing Speed on Mence for Power, you can compensate for the Speed. Unfortunately you would have to give up something in order to acquire this.

Sleep Powder is much more valuable than Stun Spore on Roserade and replacing Blastoise with another Bulky Water with Thunder Wave would mean giving up the durability of Blastoise.

Stun Spore over Sleep Powder can work but then you would need some kind of Wish support to assure your Focus Sash won't get eaten up on the switch, changing your team even more.

The team is fine and obviously tuning it would mean giving something up.

Congrats on your tourney finish.
 
Thanx for your replies, I will try overtime the little changes you all proposed.

About the sash on roserade, I must say it helped me more than any other item I tried before (accuracy glasses & leftovers). I often found myself in a position when I need a surprise sacrifice which can be avoided by just burning roserade's sash. This way I can score a desperate KO or put to sleep something I may have let set up.

Even if this is ruined by residual damage, I found it the better item to use.
 
There isn't a bulky water with Thunder Wave anyways, only waters with it are Gyarados, Starmie, Lanturn, etc. all of which aren't bulky waters due to common weaks, namely Stealth Rock(Gyarados), Pursuit(Starmie), and Earthquake(Lanturn.) Anyways, IMO you don't need paralysis support because your walls beat up faster things, while MixMence shreds up those slower tanks. Scarf Timid Gengar will kill most fast things anyways.
 
I don't believe Blastoise has the sick ground weak, thus making Dugtrio a bitch for Tentacruel. Also, Blastoise has much higher defense allowing it to take hits from things like Tyranitar, Swampert, Weavile, etc.
 
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