Roaring Abuse of Spikes (and Everything In Between)

[Kamikon Wolf]

Team at a Glance

I'm a big fan of using the moves Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Stealth Rock. I wanted to experiment with a team that exploits all three. It seemed like a crazy idea, and I was reluctant to showing it to the public, but here it is anyways. Please direct your hatred to it by replying below.

Notice
- Please do not suggest Hidden Power, because I have not the patience to work with the move, nor to listen to those who do have this patience.​

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Roserade (Rosina) @ Focus Sash
Ability - Natural Cure
Nature - Bold
EVs: 200HP, 252Def, 56SpD
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder

Yep. I gave her both Spikes and Toxic Spikes. She was the only pokemon I am aware of being able to harbor both, so she was a perfect candidate for this team. I never see any sets suggesting use of both, so I assume most call it a bad idea. I tried to make her as defensive as possible with the nature and EVs I chose. I chose Giga Drain over Grass Knot for three reasons. One: I lack the TM. Two: She's not meant for any offensive confrontations. Three: It's the closest she has to a recovery move other than Rest. The reason it's there at all is paranoia of the common Starmie as a Rapid Spinner. There are multiple water-type rapid spinners out there, but Starmie is the primary one...of course I don't expect Roserade to hold her own against a Starmie anyways. That's what the other pokemon in my team are there for.

Donphan (Phantisel) @ Leftovers
Ability - Sturdy
Nature - Careful
EVs: 252Spe, 252SpD, 4Def
- Roar
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Starmie and Foretress were both in mind when I was building this team, but I realized they just didn't have what I specifically needed, so after searching, I found that Donphan held something magical: the ability to dish out, protect from, and exploit the Spikes set up. The combination of moves makes it so I only have to switch one time as opposed to two or more times to get the same effect, which also opens more spots on my team for back-up. However, the biggest problem with Donphan is speed. The Roar shuffle might not be so effective with a Pokemon so slow.

Spiritomb (Ashoka) @ Leftovers
Ability - Pressure
Nature - Careful
EVs: 252HP, 128Def, 128SpD
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Hypnosis
- Will-O-Wisp

A switch in for a pesky Starmie that may try to ruin my insidious plans. Seeing that it has type advantages over both my spikers, I need to be able to counter that. Spiritomb won't take the Rapid Spin, and Starmie won't like getting hit with Pursuit if it tries to run away.

Gallade (Jayden) @ Expert Belt
Ablity - Steadfast
Nature - Adamant
EVs: 252Atk / 252Spe / 4HP
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Night Slash

This Gallade is a standard staple of mine that you won't catch me dead without. The diversity of his moves makes Expert Belt very useful and leaves Gallade a lot more versitile then if I added a Choice Band to him. Like all the Pokemon I use in this team besides the spikers, it is a switch in for faster and tougher pokemon Donphan can't shuffle around with Roar, like Weavile, or pokemon that are fairly immune to the effects of Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock, such as Tyranitar

Lucario (Skywalker) @ Choice Specs
Ability - Steadfast
Nature - Modest
EVs: 252SpA, 252Spe, 4HP
- Aura Sphere
- Vacuum Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Dragon Pulse

Usually when I use Lucario, I stick to the SDLuke set, but this time I alternated to a SpecsLuke. Lucario will potentially be a hit and run revenge killer rather then a back-up pokemon for the spikers in distress.

Azelf (Talula) @ Choice Scarf
Ability - Levitate
Nature - Rash
EVs: 252SpA, 252Spe, 4HP
- Explosion
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Psychic

Like Lucario, Azelf is also a hit and run player. I chose the moves that I did for extra coverage in the type department, just because I'm really conscious about my ability to deal super effective hits. Flamethrower in particular is extremely important, as its the only move on my team that can nail a Forretress, the other OU tier Rapid Spinner. The main reason it is Rash is because it was the Nature I caught it as and I never bothered to try for a different Nature, but luckily it still works.

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So, I'll bet I get a lot of hate and criticism. It's expected, I guess...Have fun bashing!​

Me​

 

[Caelum]

Spikes + Sleep Powder is illegal on Roserade. Also, Leaf Storm > Giga Drain really, or at least Grass Knot.

 

[Olie]

Okay, well since HP is not an option,

Roserade is nowhere near bulky enough to be able to put up both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, so you're best off using only Toxic Spikes. Go Leaf Storm over Giga Drain as well, The extra power is well needed, and Recovery is useless for something with such low defences. If HP is not possible, use Sludge Bomb or Energy Ball as your final move. On Donphan, definately make room for ice Shard, possibly over Roar since Phazing is becoming less and less popular. Spiritomb looks fine.

Gallade Should have SD and Shadow Sneak, to replace Earthquake and Night Slash. You'll lose some type coverage, but the extra power is well appreciated, trust me. On Lucario, try Timid, because you have nothing otherwise to make up for the lowish speed that Lucario has. Azelf looks fine. Since this is a Wifi team, changes are harder to implement, but these small ones will make a large improvement.

 

[Kamikon Wolf]

I want a clarification on these "forbidden moves" like the "you can't have this move with that move" idea. Are they dictated by Nintendo or do the people here just decide on them? If it is the latter I'm not sure why I should be obliged to follow them.

I can go Leaf Storm for Roserade. It was my first option before I switched it to Giga Drain. The ability to use Roar was the main reason Donphan was even chosen, so I don't see the point of changing that. This isn't the first time this Gallade was told to learn Swords Dance and Shadow Sneak. In fact every time I show it that's what I hear everytime. Again, I will refuse it, because unless I'm using my Uxie I'm not one for stat building. And it takes breeding to get Shadow Sneak. Timid Lucario may work, so I'll attempt it.

Thanks for the imput

 

[Fishin]

I want a clarification on these "forbidden moves" like the "you can't have this move with that move" idea. Are they dictated by Nintendo or do the people here just decide on them? If it is the latter I'm not sure why I should be obliged to follow them.

It's impossible for the Pokemon to have both moves at once in-game, so it's illegal. It IS considered cheating, and you can get kicked/banned for it, so you'll definitely want to change that.

 

[Kamikon Wolf]

Allright. Thanks.

 

[ToF]

I'd much rather slap Forretress over Donphan, because you're missing one crucial part of residual damage, Spikes! Forretress can spin, set up Rocks, and Spike, all of which goes into the gameplan of spreading residual damage. The only thing Forretress can't do is phaze, but Donphan isn't such a great phazer anyway.

Anyway, you have a fairly large Salamence problem, and some of your spreads and natures are off. I would first consider whether you want to build a team around residual damage, or simply build a standard team, because as of now, your team is a jumbled mess of both that doesn't much combat the metagame. Thinking of problematic threats, virtually all the Dragons pop up.

 

[User 12783]

OK, adding on to ToF's rate.

Your Roserade set is out of whack for a T-Spiking lead in general. You should be running 252 HP (if you really want that bulk), 6 SpA, and 252 Spe. Otherwise, you would run 6 HP, 252 SpA, and 252 Spe. The point of Roserade is put the opponents Pokemon to sleep ASAP, or at least get one layer of T-Spikes. This will help you achieve both. BTW, the moveset you are running is illegal, run T-Spikes, Leaf Storm, Sleep Powder, Grass Knot, if you can't use the move Hidden Power with the correct attributes.

Also, you should really really replace Donphan for Forretress since he is way better than Donphan in general, and is key to success with laying all residual damage on the field. I would suggest you run 252 HP, 6 Atk, 252 Def, with Explosion, Spikes, Stealth Rock, and Rapid Spin to take off the other opponents residual damage, and to explode leaving your sweepers with an opportunity.

You should also run Gallade as a Choice Bander or SDer since it has way more power in it than other sets. It also has many chances to get at least a couple of SDs in. I would run Jolly, 252 Atk, 252 Spe, and 6 HP, with the move set of Close Combat, Shadow Sneak, Thunder Punch, and Ice Punch. That takes care of Glicor, Gyarados, and Salamence (aka all his suspected "counters").