To those who have played the past couple days and tbh even just onlookers, this shouldn't come as much surprise. Roaring Moon is an incredibly powerful Pokemon with some insane damage output and a blistering Speed tier that puts it above almost everything even before a Dragon Dance. Between its unresisted coverage, crazy power and Speed, and genuinely crazy bulk for such an offensive behemoth on top of a good typing and Roost, it's clear that it's just a step above everything else SV UU has to offer. Tagging Kris/Marty to implement please, thank you!
You may be wondering why Ursaluna and Hoopa Unbound were not banned. This time around, all council members who voted gave reasoning, which I will include in spoilers below so that you can read through. Indigo Plateau, hariyana grande and TSR opted to abstain from this round of voting as they did not get an opportunity to ladder over the weekend.
Reasonings:
: DNB. Hoopa-U is obviously a stupidly strong breaker and has a ton of potential between its crazy high mixed offenses and solid movepool but it hasn't felt very overwhelming. Nothing truly handles it defensively but we have some fine short term stopgaps like Tinkaton, Alolan Muk, and Hydreigon. I found when playing with Hoopa-U that it limited my outplay potential a bit because of the quad weakness to U-turn; once my opponent's U-turn mon was on the field, they had an entirely riskless play that I quite literally could not punish unless I Tera'd; this isn't something that other Pokemon weak to the move necessarily have to deal with, since you can make the decision to trade their HP for a big KO, but not Hoopa. As the meta evolves and people use it more I'm sure it'll find more of a place and potentially be overbearing, but for now it's a very clear DNB for me.
: Ban. The DD Acro sets solo the entire tier pretty much and have a surprising amount of depth to their game with the last moveslot being open to stuff like Taunt, Roost, or Crunch. It's too fast to realistically be offensively checked by scarfers, with the only mons that can even dream to half-check it with a Choice Scarf being Torn-T, Cyclizar, Noivern, Weavile, and Kilowattrel; Weavile is the only consistent revenge killer there too, and obviously none of them want to run the item to begin with. We do have priority options between Bullet Punch, First Impression, etc but its bulk is naturally good enough to eat one so it forces multiple on every team, and defensive counterplay is a complete wasteland. Think we can retest after DLC but for now it's just way too good.
: DNB. It has the same issues it had in OU realistically, and if anything they felt even more pronounced to me here. I was struggling to nab OHKOs, it was borderline impossible to manage my HP well between Helmet chip and the fact that Ursaluna is slower than everything, and its imprecise nature makes it very difficult to use it to support sweepers in the way other breakers can do. One thing that's pretty obnoxious about Ursaluna is that a lot of even the defensive options in the tier will outspeed it, especially if it chooses to go for bulk investment; think Tinkaton, Hisuian Goodra, Skeledirge, Chesnaught. Yes it can still smoke these mons but it means it can take a heavy hit in the process and be crippled hard. I tried supporting it with Tailwind, Trick Room, Screens and Healing WIsh but they were all relatively inconsistent. I would like to give it more time to develop with the Bulk Up sets, but it's clear to me that Flame Orb Ursaluna, which is what my vote is primarily based on, is not a broken Pokemon.
: ban From what I've noticed, the tier doesn't have enough answers for dd booster energy acrobatics. It has plenty of setup opportunities and enough bulk to not easily get revenge killed.
: do not ban It has issues finding free turns to attack because of a bad defensive typing and it isn't even that hard to switch into its stabs. It's very strong, don't get me wrong, but probably nothing the tier can't handle.
: do not ban I was on the fence about this one but I decided it's for the best to give the tier some time to adapt to it. Upon release, it was in the OU On The Radar just to eventually drop down to uu because the metagame adapted to it, so it's the best to give it a fair chance here as well
: DNB. Hoopa-U will definitely be a menace for slower squads that don't usually get much attention in metagame infancy. However, there are just too many offensive threats in UU (most notably all the pokemon with U-turn) to ban Hoopa-U immediately. The mixed offenses with solid coverage only go so far when it's surprisingly easy to check. And when you can't check it too easily, Hoopa-U tends to get worn down rather fast. When Hoopa-U needs to be wearing down opposing bulky mons like Tinkaton and Alolan Muk it can be pretty disappointing.
: Ban. The Dragon Dance sets are fun and have some exploration with being able to change up the last slot with coverage or utility with like Taunt and even some trapping shenanigans. Unfortunately it's all just too much right now. Its bulk makes setting up a breeze and the only Pokemon that really feels reliable is Lokix forcing Tera. Pokemon like Quagsire and Hippowdon exist but are not difficult to exploit between Taunt and Tera. Hopefully we'll acquire the tools to deal with it properly in upcoming months.
: DNB. This thing can hit like a truck, but actually getting it to that point is difficult enough. I find it rather comparable to SS UU Conkeldurr with its bulk, "recovery", bulk up sets, guts, and so on. I think it's better than Hoopa-U, but it's still worn down quickly with its reliance on Drain Punch (not even STAB). Ursaluna's defensive typing makes it easier to build with at least. It should be a cool mon to use even if it has some of the same faults as it did in OU being against faster Pokemon that don't need to necessarily OHKO it immediately.
: DNB. While I found it to be a great breaker with near-unmatched power and great flexibility thanks to an insane movepool, I thought Hoopa-U ran into some big issues at times even overshadowing its possible great payoffs: its typing and speed stat. It's speed stat in particular positions it in a really awkward spot below a great number of mons that can outspeed it and threaten to ohko, and its physical bulk being pretty much nonexistent doesn't help its trade patterns at all, especially when they were already flawed by a STAB pair that hits a very weird spot where lots of mons can tank one - if not multiple if Hoopa isn't choiced - of its already restricted attacks. Nothing about Hoopa-U screamed banworthy to me in the games i played with or against it.
: Ban. On paper it looked insane, in practice I thought it wasn't as bad and it's really the only mon I have a couple of doubts about, and while I'd love to see more of it, I think it isn't its time yet and I'll be happy to support a retest once the meta stabilizes post DLC. Multiple moveset options allowing it to pretty much beat everything, insane breaking power, great speed stat and adding to all of this it's even got great bulk. This thing is a demon but in practice I found it to have a much harder time setupping than i anticipated, although often it's also capable of finding one out of nowhere. The first part was mostly due to Tornadus-Therian being capable of outspeeding it, combined with strong priority and the "broken" sets being forced to take hazards, the mon is not unbeatable but I think we're one or couple more splashable tools away from being in a position where it can stay in the tier without being a massive headache, and I'm afraid it could adapt to what we have ATM as I've pretty much only seen a few of its infinite options come into play.
: DNB. Actually a mon I'm really happy with. Coming into these shifts I didn't think it was going to be broken as I could see multiple things we could use to limit this mon or turning it into a tradebot at best, but I also thought it could have a negative impact on the metagame and become seriously unhealthy, and I'm glad I was wrong about the second part. Finding solid defensive counterplay for the Flame Orb set is obviously really hard, but I was able to locate multiple checks that could surprisingly take hits and even get a favourable trade out such as Slowking or other Ursaluna sets itself, not to mention that we're currently in a meta where denying hazards is really hard and where a few mons are happy running Helmet, and all of these are amazing defensive tools that can be utilized to not-so-slowly deal with the murder bear. And this is not even accounting offensively checking it, which is by far the best mean of counterplay we have for the bear. There are few things capable of OHKOing it from full, but so many capable of taking it down with minimal chip, which the Flame Orb set is going to be racking up quickly. As for Trick Room bear, I haven't found Trick Room to be nowhere consistent enough to find it unbearable (haha). And finally, Bulk Up sets were not only what I thought to be the best for bear, but also a pleasant surprise. I haven't found them to be broken in terms of setup wincon or breaking power and their presence is really appreciated to not only stop the status-spam trends that were starting to come up towards end of last meta, but also to add a great punish for slower playstyles, which I thought were starting to look way too consistent and really appreciate a new tool to deal with them. Overall expected it to be fine but to hate it, ended up being fine and lovely.
: Do Not Ban. Like Ursaluna I do think Hoopa has the potential to be overbearing but to a much lesser extent with it’s lack of setup options and worse typing. It has no resistances and it’s poor physical bulk makes it susceptible to U-turn and practically every Pokémon faster than it barring like Thundurus-T and Salamence. It’s set diversity certainly can be potent but it’s difficult to really perform when it gets run over by offensive builds. Defensive teams have outs through Pokémon like Tinkaton, Alolan Muk, and general bulky like Hippowdon to name a few but the poor matchup against offensive threats due to awkward speed is just so impactful and hard to really label Hoopa as broken based on this flaw. Only with time will we have a better idea of what sets are truly optimal and if any are constraining; I haven’t seen choice scarf which has the potential to be insane. Regardless, Hoopa hasn’t demonstrated the qualities of a broken threat at all despite the set versatility and I voted Do Not Ban.
: Ban. I think this vote is a lot closer than I initially thought and I personally do see a world when Roaring Moon can fit into UU. It’s really more of an on paper threat compared to practice. Still, it’s really unhealthy and too powerful for the tier as of now. The set that broke it for me was Dragon Dance + Acro + Earthquake + Crunch / Taunt with Tera Flying. Roaring Moon is pretty bulky on the specially defensive side and between its base typing and when terastallizing into a Flying-type it can definitely find many setup chances with an extremely good attack combo. Crunch is very valuable for a general powerful STAB attack as well as taking out Slowbro and Thundurus-T who can handle the Acrobatics + Earthquake combination. Taunt wasn’t that necessary in my opinion but it helped ease the Skeledirge matchup a lot as well as how it performed against bulky teams in general. There’s still a good amount of outs but my issue is with the difficulty of revenge killing Roaring Moon; the main choice scarf users in Galarian Zapdos, Kleavor, and Hydriegon do not outspeed Roaring Moon after a DD so we have to resort to more niche options like Gengar to take it on. We’ve got a good amount of priority but one becomes invalid after a tera typing and the others, while strong, still can’t take out a healthy Roaring Moon so it often can take the hit and continue to sweep. Ultimately, Roaring Moon generally is a scary Pokémon to face but the threat level becomes amplified between a lack of reliable revenge killing options and the unpredictable 4th move that can flip matchups into Roaring Moon’s favor. As such, I voted to Ban Roaring Moon.
: Do Not Ban. I don’t think Ursaluna is a balanced Pokémon that will be fine in the metagame; it could very well become broken in the future. However, as of now I cannot say that it is broken to warrant a ban. Ursaluna is a Pokémon that requires a lot of support around it. Pivoting, wish, grassy Terrain, they all are integral in making Ursaluna good but I don’t think it’s insane based on its own merits. Yes, it’s strong and hits hard, but it’s insanely prone to wearing itself down between hazards and recoil from Flame Orb and we have so much to revenge kill it. Quaquaval, Tornadus, Thundurus, Basculegion, Galarian Zapdos, Salamence, Scizor, Breloom, Iron Leaves, Volcanion, Hydriegon, Zarude, Gyarados, and Rillaboom are some of many Pokémon that can reliably revenge kill Ursaluna. Its basically every offensive threat ranked highly as well. There’s a few outs defensively with Helmet Users and general prediction but I think the sheer offensive pressure Ursaluna has to face makes Flame Orb not a broken set to me. With Bulk Up, I have a lack of experience with it to be honest, and I can see it breaking Ursaluna down the line. For now, it has not to me. Ursaluna has an extremely high ceiling and the potential to be an overwhelming threat, but for now I’ve found it to be manageable enough to warrant more development before considering to ban it.
: DNB. While I will agree that Hoopa-Unbound is definitively a scary wallbreaker on both the physical and special spectrum, I haven't found it overbearing, at least for now. Its biggest issue (which was already brought by some players / fellow council members) is its speed tier which isn't amazing, especially when it's paired with its typing and physical bulk. Hoopa-U, while being a pain in the ass for defensive Pokémon, is an easy prey for a lot of offensive foes which are often faster than it. I think Tera Fairy variants may be the way to play it. Overall I do think the metagame can adapt to this Pokémon and I think we do have quite a few Pokémon which are already staples and able to pressure it effectively.
: Abstain. I decided to Abstain on Roaring Moon. While I do think this Pokémon is the scariest / best we got for those shifts, I'm still struggling to see if it's really too much for the tier or if it's only due to early syndrome threat. I played a couple of variants from CB to DD and even some weird ones like DD Jaw Lock with Roost + Taunt and while all of them are able to shine. Sometimes they also don't do anything which is weird. Am I the one playing this Pokémon not in a good way or is this not that broken ? To be honest, I feel like it's too early to tell and that's why I would like to wait before voting BAN / DNB, thus I vote Abstain. I need more time and I feel like the whole metagame need more time too, it's been only 2 days and people are spamming Pokémon to neutralize those new threats so it's tough to have a clear opinion on the matter.
: DNB. Alright so people are crying a shit ton on Ursaluna and for now I'll have to disagree. Yeah this Pokémoon hits like almost nothing we ever had in the tier but it's slow as hell, insanely weak to chip damages and overall tend to be KOed quite easily. Some people compared it with Iron Hands but they're really different imo. Ursaluna typing is worst defensively which means even defensive Pokémon can hit super effectively and without Tera Fight, Drain Punch doesn't do that much damages which means you don't recover that much HPs (especially when we take into account the fact that this Pokémon is a sandbag of HP). I think Bulk Up variants are the way to go but Flame Orb ones are still effective for sure. I played some variants with Trailblaze and it's decent too. Overall I think Ursaluna is something nice for the tier and a good way to pressure defensive threats we have.
: dnb. is a bit clunky and doesnt fit in fast paced meta rn - i think this will need to be revisited after the meta settles a bit but its definitely very strong and worth keeping an eye on
: ban. too many options + too scary mon, speed tier and booster energy too crazy + multiple tera options
: dnb. ursaluna has to guesswork a bit too much and too slow, comparable to conk in ss i think
: Ban. Extremely borderline for me, Booster Energy is just too fast with DD, if there were a few more plausible revenge killing options I could see the tier handling it, but its going to shift a lot of the best Choice Scarfers out of a role where they are replaced by ones who are more niche and dont get as much done. Experimented with Taunt sets a bit, which were good against slower teams but predictably killed most of its value vs anything that had tempo. Didn't get to try Choice Band, could see that being a huge threat as well so gonna err on the side of caution with this one.
: Do Not Ban. This mon terrifies you at the sight of preview... and then gets one kill and dies. People using gimmicks to try and support it with Tailwind and Trick Room show a lot of the inconsistencies of a Slow Guts Breaker which often has to predict between its STABs, and it faces lots of chip from Flame Orb, Rocky Helmet, and its low low speed tier. Leftovers have performed far more consistently to me, and I could see them being a constraining force in the future, but this mon does not warrant immediate removal from the tier.
: Do Not Ban. This mon faces many of the same roadblocks it does in OU in this tier, mainly being its vulnerability to physical offense and U-turn. I've had the most success with an Assault Vest set that gives up immediate breaking for better trading and ability to switch moves, but it is far from unmanageable. Torn being arguably the best mon in the tier and able to threaten it with fast U-turn or make Hoopa burn a Tera severely limits its impact. Safely a DNB, think this mon is actually quite helpful to have as a mid-speed Knock Off user, perhaps in a slower meta it could be overbearing, not for now though.
: dnb. fitting dark resists isnt hard in this meta also its awkward speed tier and weakness to u turn make it easier to play around when you're in control of the game state, it sure hits hard but it doesnt have the qualities of a broken pokemon. also its physical bulk is abysmal and we have a lot of great physical priority mons. this is the easiest for me to vote dnb on out of the three.
: ban. feel its stats are too strong, access to booster energy+acro probably sends it over the edge for me and the combination of its typing+common tera types (mostly flying tho) make it relatively easy to get your setup started. its speed stat is absurd too so it can run a lot of bulk, which, combined with roost and/or taunt, is just really obnoxious to check.
: dnb. very good addition to the tier to punish all the silly status spams. I dont think flame orb is even its best set, in fact it only makes it easier to trade down given also its poor speed stat, even though facade does hit quite hard. Imo our tier is just fast paced enough for it to be a balanced presence.
As always, if you have any questions, feel free to let me know.
You may be wondering why Ursaluna and Hoopa Unbound were not banned. This time around, all council members who voted gave reasoning, which I will include in spoilers below so that you can read through. Indigo Plateau, hariyana grande and TSR opted to abstain from this round of voting as they did not get an opportunity to ladder over the weekend.
Reasonings:
: DNB. Hoopa-U is obviously a stupidly strong breaker and has a ton of potential between its crazy high mixed offenses and solid movepool but it hasn't felt very overwhelming. Nothing truly handles it defensively but we have some fine short term stopgaps like Tinkaton, Alolan Muk, and Hydreigon. I found when playing with Hoopa-U that it limited my outplay potential a bit because of the quad weakness to U-turn; once my opponent's U-turn mon was on the field, they had an entirely riskless play that I quite literally could not punish unless I Tera'd; this isn't something that other Pokemon weak to the move necessarily have to deal with, since you can make the decision to trade their HP for a big KO, but not Hoopa. As the meta evolves and people use it more I'm sure it'll find more of a place and potentially be overbearing, but for now it's a very clear DNB for me. : Ban. The DD Acro sets solo the entire tier pretty much and have a surprising amount of depth to their game with the last moveslot being open to stuff like Taunt, Roost, or Crunch. It's too fast to realistically be offensively checked by scarfers, with the only mons that can even dream to half-check it with a Choice Scarf being Torn-T, Cyclizar, Noivern, Weavile, and Kilowattrel; Weavile is the only consistent revenge killer there too, and obviously none of them want to run the item to begin with. We do have priority options between Bullet Punch, First Impression, etc but its bulk is naturally good enough to eat one so it forces multiple on every team, and defensive counterplay is a complete wasteland. Think we can retest after DLC but for now it's just way too good. : DNB. It has the same issues it had in OU realistically, and if anything they felt even more pronounced to me here. I was struggling to nab OHKOs, it was borderline impossible to manage my HP well between Helmet chip and the fact that Ursaluna is slower than everything, and its imprecise nature makes it very difficult to use it to support sweepers in the way other breakers can do. One thing that's pretty obnoxious about Ursaluna is that a lot of even the defensive options in the tier will outspeed it, especially if it chooses to go for bulk investment; think Tinkaton, Hisuian Goodra, Skeledirge, Chesnaught. Yes it can still smoke these mons but it means it can take a heavy hit in the process and be crippled hard. I tried supporting it with Tailwind, Trick Room, Screens and Healing WIsh but they were all relatively inconsistent. I would like to give it more time to develop with the Bulk Up sets, but it's clear to me that Flame Orb Ursaluna, which is what my vote is primarily based on, is not a broken Pokemon.: ban From what I've noticed, the tier doesn't have enough answers for dd booster energy acrobatics. It has plenty of setup opportunities and enough bulk to not easily get revenge killed. : do not ban It has issues finding free turns to attack because of a bad defensive typing and it isn't even that hard to switch into its stabs. It's very strong, don't get me wrong, but probably nothing the tier can't handle. : do not ban I was on the fence about this one but I decided it's for the best to give the tier some time to adapt to it. Upon release, it was in the OU On The Radar just to eventually drop down to uu because the metagame adapted to it, so it's the best to give it a fair chance here as well: DNB. Hoopa-U will definitely be a menace for slower squads that don't usually get much attention in metagame infancy. However, there are just too many offensive threats in UU (most notably all the pokemon with U-turn) to ban Hoopa-U immediately. The mixed offenses with solid coverage only go so far when it's surprisingly easy to check. And when you can't check it too easily, Hoopa-U tends to get worn down rather fast. When Hoopa-U needs to be wearing down opposing bulky mons like Tinkaton and Alolan Muk it can be pretty disappointing. : Ban. The Dragon Dance sets are fun and have some exploration with being able to change up the last slot with coverage or utility with like Taunt and even some trapping shenanigans. Unfortunately it's all just too much right now. Its bulk makes setting up a breeze and the only Pokemon that really feels reliable is Lokix forcing Tera. Pokemon like Quagsire and Hippowdon exist but are not difficult to exploit between Taunt and Tera. Hopefully we'll acquire the tools to deal with it properly in upcoming months. : DNB. This thing can hit like a truck, but actually getting it to that point is difficult enough. I find it rather comparable to SS UU Conkeldurr with its bulk, "recovery", bulk up sets, guts, and so on. I think it's better than Hoopa-U, but it's still worn down quickly with its reliance on Drain Punch (not even STAB). Ursaluna's defensive typing makes it easier to build with at least. It should be a cool mon to use even if it has some of the same faults as it did in OU being against faster Pokemon that don't need to necessarily OHKO it immediately.: DNB. While I found it to be a great breaker with near-unmatched power and great flexibility thanks to an insane movepool, I thought Hoopa-U ran into some big issues at times even overshadowing its possible great payoffs: its typing and speed stat. It's speed stat in particular positions it in a really awkward spot below a great number of mons that can outspeed it and threaten to ohko, and its physical bulk being pretty much nonexistent doesn't help its trade patterns at all, especially when they were already flawed by a STAB pair that hits a very weird spot where lots of mons can tank one - if not multiple if Hoopa isn't choiced - of its already restricted attacks. Nothing about Hoopa-U screamed banworthy to me in the games i played with or against it.: Ban. On paper it looked insane, in practice I thought it wasn't as bad and it's really the only mon I have a couple of doubts about, and while I'd love to see more of it, I think it isn't its time yet and I'll be happy to support a retest once the meta stabilizes post DLC. Multiple moveset options allowing it to pretty much beat everything, insane breaking power, great speed stat and adding to all of this it's even got great bulk. This thing is a demon but in practice I found it to have a much harder time setupping than i anticipated, although often it's also capable of finding one out of nowhere. The first part was mostly due to Tornadus-Therian being capable of outspeeding it, combined with strong priority and the "broken" sets being forced to take hazards, the mon is not unbeatable but I think we're one or couple more splashable tools away from being in a position where it can stay in the tier without being a massive headache, and I'm afraid it could adapt to what we have ATM as I've pretty much only seen a few of its infinite options come into play. : DNB. Actually a mon I'm really happy with. Coming into these shifts I didn't think it was going to be broken as I could see multiple things we could use to limit this mon or turning it into a tradebot at best, but I also thought it could have a negative impact on the metagame and become seriously unhealthy, and I'm glad I was wrong about the second part. Finding solid defensive counterplay for the Flame Orb set is obviously really hard, but I was able to locate multiple checks that could surprisingly take hits and even get a favourable trade out such as Slowking or other Ursaluna sets itself, not to mention that we're currently in a meta where denying hazards is really hard and where a few mons are happy running Helmet, and all of these are amazing defensive tools that can be utilized to not-so-slowly deal with the murder bear. And this is not even accounting offensively checking it, which is by far the best mean of counterplay we have for the bear. There are few things capable of OHKOing it from full, but so many capable of taking it down with minimal chip, which the Flame Orb set is going to be racking up quickly. As for Trick Room bear, I haven't found Trick Room to be nowhere consistent enough to find it unbearable (haha). And finally, Bulk Up sets were not only what I thought to be the best for bear, but also a pleasant surprise. I haven't found them to be broken in terms of setup wincon or breaking power and their presence is really appreciated to not only stop the status-spam trends that were starting to come up towards end of last meta, but also to add a great punish for slower playstyles, which I thought were starting to look way too consistent and really appreciate a new tool to deal with them. Overall expected it to be fine but to hate it, ended up being fine and lovely.: Do Not Ban. Like Ursaluna I do think Hoopa has the potential to be overbearing but to a much lesser extent with it’s lack of setup options and worse typing. It has no resistances and it’s poor physical bulk makes it susceptible to U-turn and practically every Pokémon faster than it barring like Thundurus-T and Salamence. It’s set diversity certainly can be potent but it’s difficult to really perform when it gets run over by offensive builds. Defensive teams have outs through Pokémon like Tinkaton, Alolan Muk, and general bulky like Hippowdon to name a few but the poor matchup against offensive threats due to awkward speed is just so impactful and hard to really label Hoopa as broken based on this flaw. Only with time will we have a better idea of what sets are truly optimal and if any are constraining; I haven’t seen choice scarf which has the potential to be insane. Regardless, Hoopa hasn’t demonstrated the qualities of a broken threat at all despite the set versatility and I voted Do Not Ban. : Ban. I think this vote is a lot closer than I initially thought and I personally do see a world when Roaring Moon can fit into UU. It’s really more of an on paper threat compared to practice. Still, it’s really unhealthy and too powerful for the tier as of now. The set that broke it for me was Dragon Dance + Acro + Earthquake + Crunch / Taunt with Tera Flying. Roaring Moon is pretty bulky on the specially defensive side and between its base typing and when terastallizing into a Flying-type it can definitely find many setup chances with an extremely good attack combo. Crunch is very valuable for a general powerful STAB attack as well as taking out Slowbro and Thundurus-T who can handle the Acrobatics + Earthquake combination. Taunt wasn’t that necessary in my opinion but it helped ease the Skeledirge matchup a lot as well as how it performed against bulky teams in general. There’s still a good amount of outs but my issue is with the difficulty of revenge killing Roaring Moon; the main choice scarf users in Galarian Zapdos, Kleavor, and Hydriegon do not outspeed Roaring Moon after a DD so we have to resort to more niche options like Gengar to take it on. We’ve got a good amount of priority but one becomes invalid after a tera typing and the others, while strong, still can’t take out a healthy Roaring Moon so it often can take the hit and continue to sweep. Ultimately, Roaring Moon generally is a scary Pokémon to face but the threat level becomes amplified between a lack of reliable revenge killing options and the unpredictable 4th move that can flip matchups into Roaring Moon’s favor. As such, I voted to Ban Roaring Moon. : Do Not Ban. I don’t think Ursaluna is a balanced Pokémon that will be fine in the metagame; it could very well become broken in the future. However, as of now I cannot say that it is broken to warrant a ban. Ursaluna is a Pokémon that requires a lot of support around it. Pivoting, wish, grassy Terrain, they all are integral in making Ursaluna good but I don’t think it’s insane based on its own merits. Yes, it’s strong and hits hard, but it’s insanely prone to wearing itself down between hazards and recoil from Flame Orb and we have so much to revenge kill it. Quaquaval, Tornadus, Thundurus, Basculegion, Galarian Zapdos, Salamence, Scizor, Breloom, Iron Leaves, Volcanion, Hydriegon, Zarude, Gyarados, and Rillaboom are some of many Pokémon that can reliably revenge kill Ursaluna. Its basically every offensive threat ranked highly as well. There’s a few outs defensively with Helmet Users and general prediction but I think the sheer offensive pressure Ursaluna has to face makes Flame Orb not a broken set to me. With Bulk Up, I have a lack of experience with it to be honest, and I can see it breaking Ursaluna down the line. For now, it has not to me. Ursaluna has an extremely high ceiling and the potential to be an overwhelming threat, but for now I’ve found it to be manageable enough to warrant more development before considering to ban it.: DNB. While I will agree that Hoopa-Unbound is definitively a scary wallbreaker on both the physical and special spectrum, I haven't found it overbearing, at least for now. Its biggest issue (which was already brought by some players / fellow council members) is its speed tier which isn't amazing, especially when it's paired with its typing and physical bulk. Hoopa-U, while being a pain in the ass for defensive Pokémon, is an easy prey for a lot of offensive foes which are often faster than it. I think Tera Fairy variants may be the way to play it. Overall I do think the metagame can adapt to this Pokémon and I think we do have quite a few Pokémon which are already staples and able to pressure it effectively. : Abstain. I decided to Abstain on Roaring Moon. While I do think this Pokémon is the scariest / best we got for those shifts, I'm still struggling to see if it's really too much for the tier or if it's only due to early syndrome threat. I played a couple of variants from CB to DD and even some weird ones like DD Jaw Lock with Roost + Taunt and while all of them are able to shine. Sometimes they also don't do anything which is weird. Am I the one playing this Pokémon not in a good way or is this not that broken ? To be honest, I feel like it's too early to tell and that's why I would like to wait before voting BAN / DNB, thus I vote Abstain. I need more time and I feel like the whole metagame need more time too, it's been only 2 days and people are spamming Pokémon to neutralize those new threats so it's tough to have a clear opinion on the matter. : DNB. Alright so people are crying a shit ton on Ursaluna and for now I'll have to disagree. Yeah this Pokémoon hits like almost nothing we ever had in the tier but it's slow as hell, insanely weak to chip damages and overall tend to be KOed quite easily. Some people compared it with Iron Hands but they're really different imo. Ursaluna typing is worst defensively which means even defensive Pokémon can hit super effectively and without Tera Fight, Drain Punch doesn't do that much damages which means you don't recover that much HPs (especially when we take into account the fact that this Pokémon is a sandbag of HP). I think Bulk Up variants are the way to go but Flame Orb ones are still effective for sure. I played some variants with Trailblaze and it's decent too. Overall I think Ursaluna is something nice for the tier and a good way to pressure defensive threats we have.: dnb. is a bit clunky and doesnt fit in fast paced meta rn - i think this will need to be revisited after the meta settles a bit but its definitely very strong and worth keeping an eye on: ban. too many options + too scary mon, speed tier and booster energy too crazy + multiple tera options : dnb. ursaluna has to guesswork a bit too much and too slow, comparable to conk in ss i think: Ban. Extremely borderline for me, Booster Energy is just too fast with DD, if there were a few more plausible revenge killing options I could see the tier handling it, but its going to shift a lot of the best Choice Scarfers out of a role where they are replaced by ones who are more niche and dont get as much done. Experimented with Taunt sets a bit, which were good against slower teams but predictably killed most of its value vs anything that had tempo. Didn't get to try Choice Band, could see that being a huge threat as well so gonna err on the side of caution with this one. : Do Not Ban. This mon terrifies you at the sight of preview... and then gets one kill and dies. People using gimmicks to try and support it with Tailwind and Trick Room show a lot of the inconsistencies of a Slow Guts Breaker which often has to predict between its STABs, and it faces lots of chip from Flame Orb, Rocky Helmet, and its low low speed tier. Leftovers have performed far more consistently to me, and I could see them being a constraining force in the future, but this mon does not warrant immediate removal from the tier. : Do Not Ban. This mon faces many of the same roadblocks it does in OU in this tier, mainly being its vulnerability to physical offense and U-turn. I've had the most success with an Assault Vest set that gives up immediate breaking for better trading and ability to switch moves, but it is far from unmanageable. Torn being arguably the best mon in the tier and able to threaten it with fast U-turn or make Hoopa burn a Tera severely limits its impact. Safely a DNB, think this mon is actually quite helpful to have as a mid-speed Knock Off user, perhaps in a slower meta it could be overbearing, not for now though.: dnb. fitting dark resists isnt hard in this meta also its awkward speed tier and weakness to u turn make it easier to play around when you're in control of the game state, it sure hits hard but it doesnt have the qualities of a broken pokemon. also its physical bulk is abysmal and we have a lot of great physical priority mons. this is the easiest for me to vote dnb on out of the three. : ban. feel its stats are too strong, access to booster energy+acro probably sends it over the edge for me and the combination of its typing+common tera types (mostly flying tho) make it relatively easy to get your setup started. its speed stat is absurd too so it can run a lot of bulk, which, combined with roost and/or taunt, is just really obnoxious to check. : dnb. very good addition to the tier to punish all the silly status spams. I dont think flame orb is even its best set, in fact it only makes it easier to trade down given also its poor speed stat, even though facade does hit quite hard. Imo our tier is just fast paced enough for it to be a balanced presence.gonna be mostly echoing what everyone else has said bc thats the nature of these votes but so far from my experience:
: DNB - I personally think maybe as time moves forward this mon will get better in the tier and maybe will have kind of like an Azumarill effect, where defensive counterplay is available but none of it is actually 100% against it... idk if that makes sense, but all im saying is that so far I have felt like it's power is weighed against it's speed stat and uturn weakness and the latter has come out on top to decide in my brain whether it's broken or not. In the event it ends up being completely disgusting and unhealthy we can just suspect it, I am jiggy with not banning it now for sure and letting it play out in the tier, w the abundance of fast uturners and just things in general that can pressure/rkill
: BAN- on paper it's completely and utterly busted omega broken stupid... in practice i definitely feel like it's easier to get around than i imagined, but i still think it'd be unhealthy to let it roam freely in the meta right now. while it is already broken right now albiet not as broken as expected, i only foresee it getting better via set/spread optimizations, and better understanding of the mon by players using it, I think this brief like day of having it on the ladder has shown that there is a world where it's in UU and healthy, but i dont think we're at that point right now... it is super plausible to revisit in the future, whether far or near
: DNB - i have less experience w this so far than the other two but I think it's simply too slow and it's typing isn't omega incredible enough defensively to make up for it... for it to be bonkers broken in practice, I haven't had much of a problem against it so far aside from being a bit scared and ultimately ending up beating it
: DNB - I personally think maybe as time moves forward this mon will get better in the tier and maybe will have kind of like an Azumarill effect, where defensive counterplay is available but none of it is actually 100% against it... idk if that makes sense, but all im saying is that so far I have felt like it's power is weighed against it's speed stat and uturn weakness and the latter has come out on top to decide in my brain whether it's broken or not. In the event it ends up being completely disgusting and unhealthy we can just suspect it, I am jiggy with not banning it now for sure and letting it play out in the tier, w the abundance of fast uturners and just things in general that can pressure/rkill: BAN- on paper it's completely and utterly busted omega broken stupid... in practice i definitely feel like it's easier to get around than i imagined, but i still think it'd be unhealthy to let it roam freely in the meta right now. while it is already broken right now albiet not as broken as expected, i only foresee it getting better via set/spread optimizations, and better understanding of the mon by players using it, I think this brief like day of having it on the ladder has shown that there is a world where it's in UU and healthy, but i dont think we're at that point right now... it is super plausible to revisit in the future, whether far or near: DNB - i have less experience w this so far than the other two but I think it's simply too slow and it's typing isn't omega incredible enough defensively to make up for it... for it to be bonkers broken in practice, I haven't had much of a problem against it so far aside from being a bit scared and ultimately ending up beating itAs always, if you have any questions, feel free to let me know.
