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Pokémon Roserade

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Im just kinda passing by and wondering how this set would work
252 spatk / 224 spd / 32hp
Timid , natural cure @ blacksludge
Toxic spikes
Venoshock
Leafstorm/ energy ball
Rest/extrasensory/dazzling gleam

Will this work?
Im not really sure aout the item tho since if ive chosen rest in this set
 
^
While I'm still new, and will be fishing for advice in this thread myself, I discarded toxic spikes/venshock straight out. Poison attacks are still not very good, even with introduction of fairy type, and in OU, there's still so many mons that just flat out don't care about toxic spikes. Three whole types of pokemon are immune to them, never mind pokemon with levitate.

As for extrasensory, for sim play it's an option, but for cart play, the breeding mechanics make it a nightmare, as you have to surrender either everstone or destiny knot for rose incense to breed the move.

The current set that I'm aiming for right now (for cart play) is
-Timid, natural cure @ black sludge
252 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 spd.
-Spikes
-sleep powder
-Giga Drain/Energy Ball
-Shadow Ball

Ghost type attacks are strong now this generation, and can only get better with ghost types becoming even more popular. Where sludge bomb chips gengar, and doesn't even touch aegislash, you can instead actually hit them and their ilk for SE damage instead, and just in general have coverage.

Now, what I could use some help with is:
-Are these EVs actually good, or should they be changed?
-Who are some good partners for this kind of Rose set?
-What is the best time/timing for this set? When Do I bring out the rose?
 
Raise two wild budews (they get 3 perfs, which makes them great breeding fodder) have both learn extrasensory, bam, offspring gets it (I think...). But this isn't the thread for breeding tricks, and you're right that it is kind of needlessly complex. But it is still manageable.

As for that set, I actually quite like it. Shadowball hits Gourgeist and Trevenant, mons Rosie is a good counter for, as well as Espeon and Alakzam, who may think they can come in on sludge bomb and ohko with psyshock. Not to mention hitting Gengar. I may give it a shot on PS.
 
pectus_Umbra said:
^
While I'm still new, and will be fishing for advice in this thread myself, I discarded toxic spikes/venshock straight out. Poison attacks are still not very good, even with introduction of fairy type, and in OU, there's still so many mons that just flat out don't care about toxic spikes. Three whole types of pokemon are immune to them, never mind pokemon with levitate.

As for extrasensory, for sim play it's an option, but for cart play, the breeding mechanics make it a nightmare, as you have to surrender either everstone or destiny knot for rose incense to breed the move.

The current set that I'm aiming for right now (for cart play) is
-Timid, natural cure @ black sludge
252 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 spd.
-Spikes
-sleep powder
-Giga Drain/Energy Ball
-Shadow Ball

Ghost type attacks are strong now this generation, and can only get better with ghost types becoming even more popular. Where sludge bomb chips gengar, and doesn't even touch aegislash, you can instead actually hit them and their ilk for SE damage instead, and just in general have coverage.

Now, what I could use some help with is:
-Are these EVs actually good, or should they be changed?
-Who are some good partners for this kind of Rose set?
-What is the best time/timing for this set? When Do I bring out the rose?
Click to expand...

Honestly Timid with max speed is probably a good idea, allowing you to outspeed Jolly Excadrill and Rotom-W, plus a few other things. A fast Sleep Powder should help your longevity immensely. If you want a mix then I suggest throwing some of your SpA into your HP. You're not running particularly high BP moves or trying to outright kill stuff so your SpA is less useful than those other two stats. You might want to consider Leaf Storm if you're going to throw out Sleep and absorb status a lot meaning you'll be switching often. May as well hit as hard as possible.
 
Jaroda said:
Honestly Timid with max speed is probably a good idea, allowing you to outspeed Jolly Excadrill and Rotom-W, plus a few other things. A fast Sleep Powder should help your longevity immensely. If you want a mix then I suggest throwing some of your SpA into your HP. You're not running particularly high BP moves or trying to outright kill stuff so your SpA is less useful than those other two stats. You might want to consider Leaf Storm if you're going to throw out Sleep and absorb status a lot meaning you'll be switching often. May as well hit as hard as possible.
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I believe 224 speed ev + timid is already enough to outspeed excadrill

Also i have no idea what will be the use of natural cure without rest
 
It all depends on what your team needs in my opinion.
Azurenine said:
I believe 224 speed ev + timid is already enough to outspeed excadrill

Also i have no idea what will be the use of natural cure without rest
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Switch into a status move and revenge kill/sleep powder/switch out.
 
It's probably worth noting how good of a partner Rotom-W is for Roserade. They have near perfect defensive synergy, and Rotom can deal with threats such as Mamoswine and Talonflame that would otherwise ruin Rose's day. Not to mention that volt switch is great for racking up spikes damage.
 
Scarfed Raptor said:
*shrugs* I get good hunches. Probably because half of my team is burn bait.
Also Natural Cure makes Rose immune to paralysis and allows it to always be a decently fast sleep powder user under the right circumstances.
Click to expand...
Roserade is not immune to Thunder Wave, you will still suffer the speed drop and possible paralysis chance making revenging a gamble if nothing else. I tried Timid Expert Belt. You can get surprise KOs but she needs LO or a choice item for that extra power. I recommend Leaf Storm for the near guarantee of taking out most bulky Rotom-W users. Her speed tier is disappointing. Hit hard and get out I say.
 
Jaroda said:
Roserade is not immune to Thunder Wave, you will still suffer the speed drop and possible paralysis chance making revenging a gamble if nothing else. I tried Timid Expert Belt. You can get surprise KOs but she needs LO or a choice item for that extra power. I recommend Leaf Storm for the near guarantee of taking out most bulky Rotom-W users. Her speed tier is disappointing. Hit hard and get out I say.
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Isnt that like a one time use because i think it becomes really useless after the stat drop after leaf storm. Either its a one time use thing or its just me. .-.
 
Azurenine said:
Isnt that like a one time use because i think it becomes really useless after the stat drop after leaf storm. Either its a one time use thing or its just me. .-.
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Your Special Attack harshly drops, but my point is Roserade isn't fast enough or bulky enough to stay in long if you're going the Technician route and thus needs as much power as possible. Giga Drain with Black Sludge is good on defensive standard sets, but the raw power of Specs or LO Leaf Storm can really help you get OHKOs on things like Rotom-W and Jellicent. Roserade is a hit and run type through and through. Get your surprise KOs with your great coverage and get out. You'll see the most benefit from Technician specifically for that reason.

If you're going to run HP Ice over HP Fire though I really insist on a Scarf instead. So many of the things besides Dragonite that are 4x weak to it are faster than you. Landorus and Garchomp being primary examples.
 
Jaroda said:
Roserade is not immune to Thunder Wave, you will still suffer the speed drop and possible paralysis chance making revenging a gamble if nothing else. I tried Timid Expert Belt. You can get surprise KOs but she needs LO or a choice item for that extra power. I recommend Leaf Storm for the near guarantee of taking out most bulky Rotom-W users. Her speed tier is disappointing. Hit hard and get out I say.
Click to expand...

I run Life Orb with Leaf Storm, Shadow Ball, Sleep Powder, and Sludge Bomb. I got no complaints with the set. Oh and I said immune to paralysis cause you just switch out and it's healed. But yeah you're right, it isn't immunity...but I don't know else to say it. I guess I'm trying to say that getting paralyzed is not as detrimental to rose as it is for other pokemon (as long as she has at least one partner alive)
 
Scarfed Raptor said:
I run Life Orb with Leaf Storm, Shadow Ball, Sleep Powder, and Sludge Bomb. I got no complaints with the set. Oh and I said immune to paralysis cause you just switch out and it's healed. But yeah you're right, it isn't immunity...but I don't know else to say it. I guess I'm trying to say that getting paralyzed is not as detrimental to rose as it is for other pokemon (as long as she has at least one partner alive)
Click to expand...
Considering you're immune to Toxic and Spore/Sleep Powder and Burn doesn't hamper your special attack paralysis is by far your most threatening status. If you were sending Rose in to revenge something and you get paralyzed, you're essentially forced out immediately because she is so speed reliant and physically frail. Sure she can sit in on a Rotom-W, but paralysis is not something to simply shrug off, it could effectively nullify your whole point of switching in.

I knew you meant you could recover from it, but it's important to make the distinction regarding what an immunity is regardless.
 
Right, reply time!
First off, Mariachi Duck, you are unfortunately incorrect on the breeding front. Budew is a baby pokemon, and therefore cannot breed. You must evolve into roselia for breeding, which requires friendship+daylight. While you can catch wild budew to help speed up the breeding process to an extent, you can only pass on extrasensory if the baby is a budew, which only comes from roselia/roserade breeding with rose incense. While the move does have nice coverage against enemy posion-types and the fighting-types you resist, it is so painful to deal with for cart players I highly discourage it unless you're doing shiny breeding anyway.
However, if you do end up playing the shadow ball set, please be sure to share whatever results you get!

Jaroda I can see your reasoning for including Leaf storm, and I admit, when I was looking at the calcs, it was very tempting (something like 300% damage on cloyster made me giggle). However, for the time being, as breeding the ivs for this roselia took much longer than they needed to, I will be using this set for the time being, as getting leaf storm means making a better executor and doing more breeding when I'd rather shift to producing more team members (up to 4 perfect pokemon so far! :D)

So doing some calcs right now. First vs. Rotom-w, Timid roserade outspeeds 252 timid rotom-w w/ 224 spd evs at level 100, 228 evs at level 50. Vs R-W at least, you stop seeing any kind of change to the damage of your grass attacks after 20 sp. atk evs. Vs. any set with minimum speed evs, you always outspeed no matter what. As for the bulky Rotom-W, you still 2-hit ko with your grass, and even modest w/ max sp. atk can't touch roserade. Thowing specs on top of that raises R-W's chances to a 3-hit ko, but that's assuming you don't run giga drain, which does, 62.5% minimum to max bulk R-W from timid, 0 EV roserade.

EDIT: The one thing Roserade fears from Rotom-W is a hidden power ice/fire (no one will run psychic). however, it's only a 2-hit ko from the specs set, which you're faster than, and a 3 hit ko from bulky modest set. you go faster than them, kill them a turn earlier, and can keep your hp up with sludge+giga drain.

More information incoming after I have something to eat and take care of an errand.
 
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The reason why Natural Cure is so good is that you can switch into pretty much any bulky Water-type without fearing Scald burns, Rotom-W without fearing Will-O-Wisp burn, and any random Thunder Wave users (notably Blissey which for some reason people run Thunder Wave on, but you can set up Spikes against it for free). Very few Pokemon can switch into any given status move and shrug it off; Roserade is one of the only ones. No, burn doesn't hurt your Special Attack stat, but it's still nice to get rid of that passive damage after you switch out. You can also run Rest alongside Natural Cure. Roserade is still a good user of the ability, even with its immunities to Toxic and powder moves.
 
pectus_Umbra said:
Right, reply time!
getting leaf storm means making a better executor and doing more breeding when I'd rather shift to producing more team members (up to 4 perfect pokemon so far! .
Click to expand...

Roserade users gotta stick together! Message me bro and i'll send you a male roselia 5IV (missing HP) with the egg moves Leaf Storm, Giga Drain, and Sleep Powder.
Free of charge.

***

In other case, where do you guys place Roserade? I typically use him as lead due to him being faster than a lot of leads. You can force a lot of switches (especially Rotom-W) for a free spikes/ sleep powder chance. Also, shadow ball wrecks fast/frail psychics that think they can switch in.
 
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I also run her as a lead, most of the time. I take a look at the opponent's team, and decide whether I would rather lead with Rosie or Rotom-H. If they've got a Ferrothorn or a Galvantula, HP Fire Roserade is great because they often stay in to try and set up. People don't expect Sweeper/Revenger Roserade as a lead, and they often fumble their first 1-2 predictions as a result (expecting Spikes, Leaf Storm or a switch). For Support Roserade, since she can come in basically for free on so many moves, I typically start with a different 'mon.

Also worth noting that, vs. Azumarill, Sludge Bomb = Energy Ball, so even if you're not running Energy Ball, any calcs which favour Energy Ball also favour Sludge Bomb.
 
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First off, Scarfed Raptor, thanks! I'll take you up on that after this post! Now, Damage calcs of belly drum azumarill *cue dramatic music*

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 118-140 (70.6 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Nothing else is really worth putting down, as it all 1HKOs, very harshly (fun points for ice punch being able to do +400% damage :P).
So basically, if they get up the belly drum before roserade comes out on the field, you're done, period. you eat the first aqua jet on the switch, then the 2nd one drops you, game over. This is the worst case scenario.
However, if you do come in same turn as the belly drum, then any grass stab you have will 1HKO them at their 50-56% HP no matter what, or force the switch, which would be pretty crushing for azumarill regardless.
Conclusion: The belly drum set is the more dangerous game, for both roserade and azumarill. A burned azumarill does give you a better chance at life, worth noting, but earthquake and ice punch still murder your face off.

Some other random calcs with gengar:
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 33-39 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 67-79 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 75-88 (44.9 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Gengar Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 68-80 (40.7 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

28 SpA Roserade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 96-114 (70.5 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Roserade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 112-134 (82.3 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Analysis: While mega gengar will almost certainly rip roserade to pieces, Roserade handles all of regular gengar's tricks pretty nicely, and carrying shadow ball, you do solid damage even with minimum investment. the sub-disable set is a bother, but prediction does help. You break subs no problem, and you can powder in response to the disable.

Anyway, not too much more to say at the moment. Could list a bunch of shadow ball damage calcs, but I think I've done just about enough typing for now. leaf storm is better on the alakazam switch in than shadow ball. leaf storm only has 18.8% chance of 1HKO on alakazam, but you're going to switch out regardless or you just fall over and die to psychic/psyshock. If you have someone else to absorb status, it might be worth having technician w/hp fire on this set, as you do 1HKO 252 HP/0 Sp. def scizor while living through max power bullet punch (adamant nature, technician, choice band, 252 atk does 71-85% damage to the bulky roserade set).

And that's enough of me typing. I'll step out for a few minutes, return, and add Scarfed Raptor. I'll pass you a nice phantump or a spikes/powder roselia in exchange if you'd like. I have. A LOT. of both.
 
Mariachi Duck said:
Also worth noting that, vs. Azumarill, Sludge Bomb = Energy Ball, so even if you're not running Energy Ball, any calcs which favour Energy Ball also favour Sludge Bomb.
Click to expand...
That is correct, yeah. I just discarded sludge bomb for my set, since I've only got 2 attacking moves, needed something with a bit more coverage/flexibility.
 
Depends what you're running.

Most sets, the best bet would be SpA and Speed, for sets such as Offensive Spikes, Offensive (3 Attack + Rest, All Out Attacker, Technician Attacker), or possible Assault Vest set(?)

For Specially Defensive sets, HP and SpD, with some SpA and Spe investment
 
How do you get HP fire roserade?

k17pA.gif
 
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