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Rowlet, Dartrix, Decidueye Discussion

It'll be solid in UU, but will show up as a compliment to trappers in OU sometimes. The double/triple fairy core (Tapu Lele + Mega Gard or Mega Diancie with optional Magearna) with the Decidueye + Dugtrio/Magnezone core sounds potent.
 
Spirit Shackle is good in that itll stop double switching but people have to remember that if the opponent didnt switch you out their pokemon before you spirit shackle then its obviously because they think that pokemon can handle Decidueye or its late game and they have no better options in either case it doesnt matter. If I switch in a pokemon into Decidueye I'm clearly not that scared of being trapped. You cant baton pass and keep the trap up so if you switch into something that handles the trapped pokemon itll switch out. A damaging mean look is good dont get me wrong but just like mean look its easily played around. I still have problems with its bulk and weaknesses when its at the speed tier it is...pretty much any team is gonna have multiple 70+ speed mons that carry Dark/Ghost/Fire/Ice/Flying which makes it easy to check. I wouldnt be shocked if it does become UU but its far from a lock, its not amazing versatile trapper some people are making it out to be.
 
oreofestar said:
Spirit Shackle is good in that itll stop double switching but people have to remember that if the opponent didnt switch you out their pokemon before you spirit shackle then its obviously because they think that pokemon can handle Decidueye or its late game and they have no better options in either case it doesnt matter. If I switch in a pokemon into Decidueye I'm clearly not that scared of being trapped. You cant baton pass and keep the trap up so if you switch into something that handles the trapped pokemon itll switch out. A damaging mean look is good dont get me wrong but just like mean look its easily played around. I still have problems with its bulk and weaknesses when its at the speed tier it is...pretty much any team is gonna have multiple 70+ speed mons that carry Dark/Ghost/Fire/Ice/Flying which makes it easy to check. I wouldnt be shocked if it does become UU but its far from a lock, its not amazing versatile trapper some people are making it out to be.
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With a movepool like this, Decidiueye shouldn't be looked at as just a Shackle spammer by any means. If you have something you feel you can switch in, depending on what decidueye is running you might be wrong. Example being ttar or bisharp thinking he can eat a stab from decidueye for free and getting low sweeped. It doesn't have to rely on mindlessly mashing spirit shackle by any means. There's also always the option to read a switch and just uturn out.
 
Joker8417 said:
With a movepool like this, Decidiueye shouldn't be looked at as just a Shackle spammer by any means. If you have something you feel you can switch in, depending on what decidueye is running you might be wrong. Example being ttar or bisharp thinking he can eat a stab from decidueye for free and getting low sweeped. It doesn't have to rely on mindlessly mashing spirit shackle by any means. There's also always the option to read a switch and just uturn out.
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This. Plus it allows you to catch and soft trap bulky Steels and the like that might normally like to switch in, then U-Turn/Baton Pass to kill them with a proper trapper, i.e. Magnezone or Dugtrio. That's something that I think is probably better in practice than it sounds on paper. Simply having a trapper on your team makes them cautious of what to switch in on Decidueye. They need something that can take a STAB Spirit Shackle or a pretty strong U-Turn and can also handle the trapper.
 
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oreofestar said:
If I switch in a pokemon into Decidueye I'm clearly not that scared of being trapped. You cant baton pass and keep the trap up so if you switch into something that handles the trapped pokemon itll switch out.
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Not when I switch to something with arena trap/shadow tag/magnet pull
 
Oh I forgot to mention! Low sweep OHKO's Bisharp with Rocks, so he's not necessarily a hard counter.

But now 4 move slot syndrome sets in . . .
 
oreofestar said:
I think thats fine, it has a solid niche...I dont think its trash by any


Any Pokémon can switch into an arena trap/shadow tag mon, that's not a Decidueye thing.
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The thing is that Decidueye can do that without relying on predicting the switch-in. If Decidueye threatens something with a STAB Spirit Shackle, the switch-in risks being trapped. That significant added bonus on a spammable STAB can really not be overstated. I doubt it's enough to cement it in OU, especially with so much other good stuff this gen, but it's enough that it'll probably see some play there as part of a trapping core or a pivot with Defog (similar to Celebi).
 
Leave it to GF to ruin the grass starter of this generation. It could have been so much better with 80/80/80 bulk and 108/56/124 attacking stats with the possibility of having access to hjk or jk by breeding with the hawlucha or dodrio family, but instead we get this poorly distributed piece of garbage. As is I'd say it'll sit in ru with venusaur.
 
Dovahhkiin64 said:
Leave it to GF to ruin the grass starter of this generation. It could have been so much better with 80/80/80 bulk and 108/56/124 attacking stats with the possibility of having access to hjk or jk by breeding with the hawlucha or dodrio family, but instead we get this poorly distributed piece of garbage. As is I'd say it'll sit in ru with venusaur.
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Not everything can be Mega Beedrill, you know.
 
Dovahhkiin64 said:
It would not be as powerful as mega beedrill thanks to it lacking adaptibility, and lacking the same speed tier. It would however be able to withstand super effective physical hits unlike mega beedrill.
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My point is that Mega Beedrill has unusually well-distributed stats and it's unreasonable to expect many other Pokemon to be so efficient, especially a starter since Gamefreak tries to design those so that kiddies can just spam any attacking move they feel like.
 
oreofestar said:
I think thats fine, it has a solid niche...I dont think its trash by any


Any Pokémon can switch into an arena trap/shadow tag mon, that's not a Decidueye thing.
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Look at it this way

Scenario 1:
I see you have a Dugtrio on your team, so I know I have to be careful with my fire type mons for example.

Any time I switch to something Dugtrio might want to come in on though I can counter that by simply double switching right away. So I send out my fire type, and excepting Dugtrio I immediately switch to a flying type or something like that and Dugtrio is forced out.

Scenario 2:
I see you have Decidueye and Dugtrio. Now things are much more complicated for me. If I send my fire type out on Decidueye and he gets hit by Spirit Shackle I can't do anything about Dugtrio coming in after and killing my guy. I will not have an opportunity to double switch.

Personally I want to try running Decidueye with with the Curse Trapping set and then partner him with Dugtrio and Magnezone. Anything that can't kill Decidueye quickly enough dies to curse and anything that would threaten him has to worry about getting trapped on the switch in followed by a switch out to Dug or Zone who should handle most Decidueye counters pretty well.

Edit: And I realize there will still be opportunities for Decidueye counters to come in safely like at the start of the game or after a mon has died but that just means you don't lead with Decidueye and if you have to sacrifice a mon to him just so your counter can come in safely without fear of getting trapped on the switch and left helpless against a Dug or Zone switch in I'd still say that's pretty damn good. Honestly I could potentially see this combo getting banned unless most Decidueye counters can also safely take the spirit shackle and kill Dugtrio or Magnezone when they switch in. Aside from this specific strategy he's probably only UU viable because of his stat spread but he'll be very good there because of his move pool.

Edit 2: I suppose flying and ice types remain strong counters to both Decidueye and Dugtrio so the combo probably won't be banned but still I think we'll have to see how it all stacks up. If enemy teams are basically required to run certain mons or they just lose to Decidueye/Dugtrio/Magnezone trap shenanigans I could see it being banned.
 
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Dovahhkiin64 said:
Leave it to GF to ruin the grass starter of this generation. It could have been so much better with 80/80/80 bulk and 108/56/124 attacking stats with the possibility of having access to hjk or jk by breeding with the hawlucha or dodrio family, but instead we get this poorly distributed piece of garbage. As is I'd say it'll sit in ru with venusaur.
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It's really not that bad. It's bulk is very good and matches its useful set of resistances. Yes it has bad weaknesses, but resisting Water, Electric, and Ground with Normal and Fighting immunities is solid. Mixed attacking stats are at least justified by having access to both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot.
 
Dovahhkiin64 said:
Leave it to GF to ruin the grass starter of this generation. It could have been so much better with 80/80/80 bulk and 108/56/124 attacking stats with the possibility of having access to hjk or jk by breeding with the hawlucha or dodrio family, but instead we get this poorly distributed piece of garbage. As is I'd say it'll sit in ru with venusaur.
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Why should it be that way?

You are seeing Decidueye as an offensive Pokemon when it's a support Pokemon. With Spirit Shackle combined with three of U-Turn, Defog, instant recovery, Swords Dance or Nasty Plot (or even Work Up) + Baton Pass, etc., you know where this Pokemon's strengths lie in. It even gets a decent luring move in Low Sweep to surprise Dark and Normal-type Pokemon that think its Spirit Shackle is a free switch-in (and Baton Pass lets it avoid a Pursuit boost).

It really only misses on Will-o-Wisp IMO.
 
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wishes said:
Glad to have been a Popplio supporter since the beginning. It payed off! Personally, it's the best out of the three both design-wise, stat-wise, and movepool-wise. Hyped as hell to use it.
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Primarina...the best design-wise...
I mean, I can see WHY people like it design-wise, but Primarina's design isn't exactly my cup of tea. :/
Best stat-wise, oh yes, highest Special Attack of all final starters (excluding Megas).
 
Dovahhkiin64 said:
It would not be as powerful as mega beedrill thanks to it lacking adaptibility, and lacking the same speed tier. It would however be able to withstand super effective physical hits unlike mega beedrill.
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Mega drill NEEDED that overdesigning, because even with +100 to its BST, it would still have really low stats all around, and it was so generic, no one even bothered using it IN GAME. Even butterfree at least had compound eyes sleep powder, and then was gifted with quiver dance. So if anyone was ever going to use it, they had to make those stats count. Decidueye, meanwile, is just fine, since its stats give it a bit of flexibility in its role, and also help to make a bit less predictable than many other pokemon. Spirit shackle in particular lets it lock stuff down to deal with certain threats, and it has just enough coverage that it can do that, with Ghost/Grass/Flying, and possibly fighting.
 
Yeah, Decidueye definitely has its place, and that's not as a sweeper. I feel it will work best as a slow pivot with support or a Baton Pass set in general. Though it has a fantastic movepool to make use of a bulky offense set, with something like Spirit Shackle, Leaf Blade, U-Turn, Low Sweep, etc., like people have said.

Personally I'll probably use Adamant or something for my Starter Rowlet, and play with that one or other sets until we gain access to Long Reach. I really need to look at some sets and think of how I'll want to use it to be sure, though...

What sets are you guys most looking forward to using? In-game, competitive, etc.
 
Dovahhkiin64 said:
Leave it to GF to ruin the grass starter of this generation. It could have been so much better with 80/80/80 bulk and 108/56/124 attacking stats with the possibility of having access to hjk or jk by breeding with the hawlucha or dodrio family, but instead we get this poorly distributed piece of garbage. As is I'd say it'll sit in ru with venusaur.
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Nah, Spirt Shackle and its well-rounded stats would make it too good for RU. It'll be BL2 or UU instead.
 
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