RU Battle Analysis

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#26
Turn 2
Smeargle used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of the foe's team!
The foe's Entei used Lava Plume!
Smeargle lost 32% of its health!
Smeargle fainted!
DittoCrow sent out Kabutops!

DittoCrow:


Limitless:


Limitless said:
Seeing as how he didn't use Spore the previous turn, there was no way I could risk switching out Entei now. Therefore, the only two options I had to choose from were either Lava Plume or Sleep Talk. I chose Lava Plume simply due to odds. If I used Lava Plume while he used Spikes, then he'd have only one layer. If I used Sleep Talk, I'd have to be banking on him using Spore. The odds were definitely in my favor to use Lava Plume, as there were just too many variables to risk using Sleep Talk.
DittoCrow said:
Him going to Entei made it almost positive that he had Sleep Talk or Substitute, unless he was just going to risk me not using Spore and finishing Smeargle off with ExtremeSpeed. I decided to use Spikes here predicting him to use something to block Spore, as Spikes would really help me wear down Gallade, Entei, and Jynx which would give me a bigger advantage. In retrospect, using Spore probably would have been the better move, especially since he predicted me to predict him to use Sleep Talk. Still, it wouldn't really matter in the long run, because my Entei and Kabutops could still do a ton of damage to his team with or without an extra layer of Spikes.

So basically, I could either switch in Entei or Kabutops here. However, I knew that he would save his Entei for my Rotom-C—I was sure it was the specially defensive set at this point since he sent it in on Smeargle, used Lava Plume, and it is overall a strong Pokemon on hail teams. Him saving Entei would allow Kabutops to get a free Swords Dance and most likely get at least one KO. It was extremely unlikely that he would risk me KOing his Entei with Stone Edge this early in the game. I also didn't want to risk my Entei missing Stone Edge and getting damaged, since it was the key to my victory.
Turn 3
Limitless called Entei back!
Limitless sent out Snover!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Snover!
The foe's Snover is hurt by the spikes!
The foe's Snover's Snow Warning whipped up a hailstorm!
Kabutops used Swords Dance!
Kabutops's Attack sharply rose!
The hail crashes down.
Kabutops is buffeted by the hail!

DittoCrow:


Limitless:


Limitless said:
Entei seemed like a crucial part of my path to victory, so there was no way that I was keeping it in on Kabutops. Looking at my team, there really wasn't any Pokemon that could straight up take Kabutops with ease, so I opted to just sack Snover.
DittoCrow said:
It was a bit risky going for Swords Dance in case he had Hidden Power Grass, but it would have also been an extreme risk for him if he stayed in and I went for Stone Edge. Limitless losing Entei would put him at a big disadvantage. If this move paid off and I got a Swords Dance, something on the opposing team was going to die. If he somehow KOed Kabutops with HP Grass, I could still damage his team with my own Entei and Gallade.
You know the drill by now, discuss any mistakes that were made, what the next moves should be, etc. Also putting your thoughts in hide tags isn't a bad idea!
 
#27
Turn 2 went pretty much the best it could for both sides, so nothing much to say here.

Turn 3, however, could definitely gone better. I would've gone for the Stone Edge to hurt whatever comes in, because DC won't be sweeping Limitless due Jynx's Dry Skin. It would also be better just in case Limitless predicts the SD(not that it would be wise staying in on Kabutops in any situation due Entei's importance) and tries to get the burn with Lava Plume. But it ended well regardless for DC, so oh well. Limitless did the safe move yet again, mainly due the team disadvantage not leaving him many options.

I would just sack Snover to force out with Jynx (as I'm unsure if Rotom-F would be able to take AND be usable after an +2 Aqua Jet) or Uxie in Limitless's position. DC is going to Stone Edge (unless it lives up to it's nickname) and kill Snover and from that point attempt to wear down Uxie (as Rotom-F is going to be worn down fast if it's forced in and thus, will be down before long) for a Swellow sweep. This is looking really one sided at this point, so I'm kind of hoping Stone Edge DOES miss so we can see how DC adapts to that. Else, the next few turns are going to be depressingly predictable.

Forgot this...
 
#28
Let's do this, good idea for the
brackets Yonko.
Turn 2: Best for both teams, not much to say. Good prediction by Ditto Crow to limit Smeargle to 1 layer of Spikes, smooth Smeargle play by Limitless to get up rocks and Spikes.

Turn 3: At first I thought DC made a mistake. My first thought was that he should have gone for the Stone Edge to hit whatever comes in rather than boosting this early. But, the more I look the more I see in this case boosting is the right move. He's come out on top by getting tops to +2 and presumably killing Snover with a Stone Edge (unless it misses) now that it's Focus Sash is broken and putting huge pressure on limitless. Limitless did the best he could getting up hail and setting the weather for himself for the rest of the match but now he's in a bad way.

In all honesty, if/when Snover dies it might be smart to go to Uxie to hurt it and put it into ko range for Jynx, but you'll lose Uxie's Stealth Rocks and general utility. Gallade actually wont survive a Stone edge upon running the calcs, so it's out. Honestly, it might just be time to roll the dice and go for broke with Jynx and lovely kiss it. Rotom-F would be a horrible choice, Rotom-F will survive a +2 Aqua Jet after rocks, but it will be useless. It will kill Tops, but after it kills Tops it will die instantly to Entei's ExtremeSpeed or Gallade's Shadow Sneak. Rotom-F is his best win condition and only real thing stopping Swellow so keeping it alive is his best interest at this point. At this point it really comes down to risk vs. reward, either sacking Uxie for the guaranteed kill by Jynx or going for the Lovely Kiss to try and come out on top at +2. This could be the turning point of the match, I'll be watching closely.

Or of course Stone edge could miss, which would be an interesting turn of events but I really don't want to theorize as much on hax. I suppose Entei would come in and start nuking things with Flare blitz, while threatening off Jymx with ExtremeSpeed. With Entei in the Game Uxie would come in after Snover to Paralyze it or whatever comes in after Entei then setting up rocks or running away form a Trick from Rotom-C.

Some calcs:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 148-175 (61.15 - 72.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 276-326 (99.63 - 117.68%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 234-277 (66.1 - 78.24%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And to whoever's idea this was, (Ditto Crow and Limitless I assume), I want to say thank you for taking the time to do this. As someone trying to better them selves, having something like this to break down and analyze a match between 2 very competent battlers and seeing what and why good moves are made is absolutely invaluable.
 

Nails

Nuke the Weebs
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
#29
I'd have spored turn 2 but whatever. It's justifiable.

Pretty straightforward turns, Jynx is still scary to DC's team (dry skin blocking aqua jet is huge) but LL has nothing else that signifcantly threatens DC. Not much to add. Stone miss would be a turning point here since snover would heal back to sash. But yeah... nothing really to add. If SE hits LL has to let gallade take 50%+ from aqua jet on his way to getting steamrolled, or burn his jynx's LK on a pokemon he can ko with a +2 blizzard and outspeeds. He desperately needs to keep uxie alive and healthy and yet also desperately needs to get SR down. And since everything on DC's team can hurt Uxie, LL is in a really bad spot.

fuk hide tags
 

Yonko7

Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
is a Contributor Alumnus
#30
For turn 2, Limitless made the right choice because nothing else on the team can take on Kabutops, other than Uxie, which he needs to deal with Gallade and Swellow. DC made the arguably safer move with Spikes, but he could’ve really put Limitless behind if he used Spore. The chance of Sleep Talk KOing Smeargle is 1/3, and those odds aren’t bad considering the Entei is crippled and SR is already set up. The biggest advantage to Spikes is that now it deters everything but Uxie from switching in—more readily. If Uxie switches in more, it will take more chip damage and eventually be too weak to stop the Swellow sweep.

For turn 3, DC made the right choice switching to Kabutops because Entei serves a vital spot for Limitless as it blocks Rotom-C, and it can really weaken Limitless’s team before going down or switching out. Limitless did pick the lesser of the evils by sending out Snover. Snover can really wear Kabutops down with Hail. Also, Snover can stall Kabutops by Protecting and then using Ice Shard to get a last hit. If Limitless had SR up, he could try to use Giga Drain to KO Kabutops. Also, the chance of Stone Edge hitting is something that Limitless can take advantage of, and maybe KO with Giga Drain.

The next turn, Limitless’s best move might be to stall with Protect to get hail damage, and doesn’t have to worry about Kabutops boosting too much because Jynx isn’t affected by a boosted Aqua Jet, whereas Rotom-F is. As mentioned already, Limitless can fish for Stone Edge miss, but that’s a last resort option. Once Snover is gone, then Limitless can regain the pressure.

On the other hand, DC can boost with Swords Dance again, but it might be too dangerous with Snover because it could use Giga Drain. He can also go for the Stone Edge and hope he doesn’t miss.


Can’t wait for next turn!
 
#31
Turn 4
Kabutops used Stone Edge!
A critical hit! It's super effective! The foe's Snover lost 63% of its health!
Kabutops lost some of its HP!
The foe's Snover fainted!
The hail crashes down.
Kabutops is buffeted by the hail!
Limitless sent out Jynx!
The foe's Jynx is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Jynx!

DittoCrow:


Limitless:


Limitless said:
Seeing as how I sent out Snover to be sacked, switching out would be counter-intuitive. Additionally, if he somehow missed Stone Edge, then I'd be able to kill his Kabutops with Giga Drain, putting the momentum heavily in my favor.

However, as his Stone Edge did hit, I surveyed my options once again. The only logical options to send out were Jynx and Uxie. If I were to choose Uxie to send out, I would have the option of using Stealth Rocks, but at the cost of losing a lot of health. This simply was not worth it, as I needed to tank a lot of attacks, especially with how offensive his team was. Alternatively, the only downside to sending out Jynx in would be risking Lovely Kiss missing. As Jynx can just absorb Aqua Jet, he would be forced to either risk my Lovely Kiss missing, let Kabutops take the sleep, or switch out.
DittoCrow said:
I went for the obvious Stone Edge here as I wanted to do last turn. Going for any other move would have been too risky since his best option was to use Giga Drain, which he eventually ended up using. He sent in Jynx which was definitely his best option since Kabutops was at +2. Otherwise, he could have probably sent in Uxie and crippled me or set up Stealth Rock, which could have hurt my chances of winning.
Reminder that your posts don't always have to be tl;dr, you can use bullet points and stuff.
 
#32
Well I'd like to start by saying Stone Edge crit mattered :[ Anywho, nothing particularly out of the ordinary played out in these turns imo. Rotom-F has about a 40% chance to get popped by a +2 Aqua Jet after SR, and even then it dies coming in next, so there's no point in that, and having Uxie take that much damage only to get off SR or maybe a Psychic is a terribly inefficient use of a moderately important 'mon. Jynx has a variety of options that all put DC is a tough position at minimal risk to Limitless, so optimal play there imo.

Looking from Limitless' point of view, I'd say Substitute would be the safest play. Lovely Kiss is way too possible an option, and DC could either go to Gallade and burn his Lum, scaring it out with the possible Shadow Sneak, or just get his optimal sleep fodder. Substitute gives Jynx a nice safe option to scout DC's primary switch and play from there, maybe even getting a safe Blizzard off on Gallade (though switching in Gallade would be a really bad play for this reason). Even if DC decides to stay in and Stone Edge it only bring it closer to the point where Blizzard can take it out cleanly. He could double to Uxie predicting DC to switch out, though with the momentum shifted in his favor and Jynx already being a potent immediate threat to respond to there isn't much need for Limitless to overpredict like that.

That being said, I would imagine DC to be playing assuming for Jynx to sub up. I feel as though the ideal option would be to go to Rotom-C and play from there. Blizzard is a highly unlikely option at the moment, and generally speaking Rotom-C is the most expendable member of his team, getting walled by Entei, checked by Uxie, and smashed by Blizzspam. At best this puts Limitless in the position where he is forced to either switch out, put Rotom-C to sleep, or kill it, granting DC a free switch into whatever he sees fit (I'd imagine Swellow to get off a BB and activate his orb). Going into Gallade to absorb sleep is, in my opinion, too risky an option, since it lends itself to being a really possible win condition late-game (especially with SR to wear down Rotom-F), and taking unnecessary Blizzard damage compromises this.


Just my two cents though =)

edit: whoops, first post here, improper etiquette 'n stuff '~'
 
#33
Turn 5
DittoCrow called Kabutops back!
DittoCrow sent out Gallade!
The foe's Jynx used Substitute!
The foe's Jynx put in a substitute!
The foe's Jynx lost 25% of its health!
The hail crashes down.
Gallade is buffeted by the hail!
The foe's Jynx restored HP using its Leftovers!

DittoCrow:


Limitless:


Turn 6
Gallade used Shadow Sneak!
It's super effective! The foe's Jynx's substitute faded!
The foe's Jynx used Blizzard!
Gallade lost 60% of its health!
The hail crashes down.
Gallade is buffeted by the hail!
The foe's Jynx restored HP using its Leftovers!

DittoCrow:


Limitless:


Limitless said:
In this situation, I had two options. I could either use Lovely Kiss or Substitute. The downside to Lovely Kiss is if he sends in Gallade, he has the ability to just Shadow Sneak, as he likely has a Lum Berry. Thus, Jynx would die or would have taken 25% Stealth Rock damage for nothing. Therefore, I chose to use Substitute, as I can fish for a Stone Edge miss or be safe behind a Substitute if he switches to Gallade.

Since he switched to Gallade, I have no other option but to use Blizzard. Using Lovely Kiss would be too risky, as he likely has Lum Berry.
DittoCrow said:
I needed Kabutops for Entei, so I couldn't risk being put to sleep. Also, if he used Substitute, I couldn't risk Stone Edge missing anyways. Basically my best option was Gallade. If he used Lovely Kiss, Lum Berry would activate and Jynx was in KO range for Shadow Sneak. If he used Substitute, I could break it with Shadow Sneak and take a Blizzard due to Gallade's good special bulk. These two turns played out perfectly for me, but the question is if Limitless is going to save Jynx or not next turn.
@col49: Rotom-C would be way too risky, as he could put me to sleep or KO with Blizzard. Entei could still win the game for me late-game.
 
#34
Both players made the best move up to this point, so on to what comes next. LL could switch to Entei, but SR+SS takes quite a chunk and DC can switch to his own Entei or Tops regardless or even use Drain Punch to attempt to sweep. Nothing on LL's team likes to take an attack and SR on top or just doesn't like the obvious SS. DC just has to click SS and respond to whatever happens,due his team enabling that. Uxie? SS+SR takes it's toll eventually, even though nothing on DC's team enjoys Twave besides Gallade who dies to Psychic at that point. Rotom-f? Same as Uxie (aka gets worn down) and Entei can switch in relatively safely. Gallade? Minds SS quite a bit and even if it does win the speed tie next turn, Swellow forces it out. Staying in is gonna get Jynx killed. No matter what happens, LL is yet again in a tough spot.

If DC doesn't SS though, LL can come off better, if he predicts what move, but I don't see it happening.

GD typing on mobile devices
 
#35
Turn 7
The foe's Jynx used Blizzard!
Gallade lost 28% of its health!
Gallade fainted!
The hail crashes down.
The foe's Jynx restored HP using its Leftovers!
DittoCrow sent out Entei!
Entei is exerting its pressure!

DittoCrow:


Limitless:


Limitless said:
In this situation, there was really no reason for me to switch out. Most of his team consisted of Pokemon that had access to priority, and therefore, having Jynx at around 50% wasn't really going to be doing me any good, other than for fodder. Having Uxie or Entei sponge the damage wasn't worth the risk.
DittoCrow said:
I thought that he would save Jynx and switch to Uxie to set up Stealth Rock and thinking that it walls Gallade. However, I had Night Slash which would be quite unexpected, but it wouldn't do enough to Uxie unless Gallade was at +2. I got kinda greedy here, but didn't really lose much because Entei could still do a number on his team.
Turn 8
Entei used ExtremeSpeed!
The foe's Jynx lost 56% of its health!
The foe's Jynx fainted!
The hail crashes down.
Entei is buffeted by the hail!
Limitless sent out Uxie!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Uxie!

DittoCrow:


Limitless:


Limitless said:
For this turn, it's really just the same story as the previous turn. I couldn't afford Uxie or Entei taking any damage from Entei, as I needed them for later in the match.
DittoCrow said:
I figured that he was just trying to sacrifice Jynx here and didn't want Uxie to get damaged, so I just went for the ExtremeSpeed which worked out to my advantage. He still didn't know what item Entei was, so it could probably do a lot more damage to his team.
 
#36
There are two trains of thought here. One is that Ditto should do something completely unexpected. This, in a nutshell, means keeping Entei in. Noting that it's a Flame Plate set, this would in turn lead to a simple solution: (36) "If all else fails, Flare Blitz the thing to oblivion". Somehow I doubt Uxie is going to do anything offensive, and that Entei set looks like it'd 2HKO Uxie with FB after rocks.

On the other hand, Limitless's team doesn't have anything that counters Entei left (seeing as DC's Entei isn't choice, so Stone Edge is a possibility for that opposing tei), Ditto could save Entei for later (Entei at 100 percent health should not be wasted) and instead send out Swellow before SR stops it from working so well. It also gives it a chance to activate its Toxic Orb without using Protect.

At this point, Ditto U-turning is a no-brainer. Even if Uxie switches, it's a U-turn, remember, so Ditto has the advantage when switching in.

I think Ditto has this one in the bag.

EDIT: I just realised that Uxie has T-Wave, so maybe switching Entei out would be wiser than keeping it in. It's not the end of the world for Swellow if it gets T-waved, thanks to Guts.
 
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