Project RU Theorymon

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Take Azelfie

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RU Theorymon
Welcome to RU Theorymon, here we will come up with ideas to "buff" lower ranked Pokemon to potentially make them more viable in the RU metagame. To do this we will come up with new abilities, moves, or type changes to be added to make a Pokemon more viable. For 4 days we will discuss these new, "Theorymons" and how they will change the Pokemon itself in terms of viability, usage, and sets as well as how they will impact the meta. After that we will vote for two days for which one we think will have a better impact on the meta.

Submitting Theorymons
You may also submit ideas by PMing me. When submitting a "Theorymon" please make sure that you aren't submitting something mindlessly broken (ex. Rock Head Archeops.) Make sure to add proper descriptions of how this Theorymon would work in at least 2 sentences. We would also appreciate it if you only submitted 1-2 "Theorymons" a week. If changing the type of a dual-typed Pokemon the secondary typing is the only one that may be changed. Lastly don't let it contradict flavor (ex. Fire Blast Aromatisse so it can beat Steels.)

Discussing Slates
When discussing the weekly slate we should be looking at a few key things here.​

  • How will this buff affect the Pokemon? Does it make sets better or even viable?
  • How will this buff affect the metagame? Does it suddenly become a metagame defining threat?
  • Is this buff outclassed outclassed by other Pokemon?
  • Can this Pokmeon take on different roles?

You play RU Theorymon on this server! http://aqua.psim.us/
Slate of the Week
+ Ground-type + Earth Power

And
Wish +
 
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Take Azelfie

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Archive
Week 1
Mega Banette + Dark-type & Miltank + Rapid Spin
Look below
Week 2
Aromatisse + Posion-type + Sludge Bomb & Jynx + Freeze-Dry
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...omb-and-jynx-freeze-dry.3570555/#post-6782520
Week 3
Mismagius + Fairy-type + Magic Bounce & Floatzel + Sheer Force
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...d-jynx-freeze-dry.3570555/page-2#post-6788628
Week 4
Mega Audino + Soft-Boiled + Natural Cure & Phione + Tail Glow
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-phione-tail-glow.3570555/page-2#post-6795302
Week 5
Gastrodon + Poison Heal & Lilligant + Flower Veil
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...igant-flower-veil.3570555/page-2#post-6800634
Week 6
Articuno + Magic Guard & Accelgor + Sticky Web
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-web-now-playable.3570555/page-3#post-6810511
Week 7
Samurott + Water Veil & Uxie + Recover
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...loswine-slack-off.3570555/page-3#post-6820843
Week 8
Piloswine + Slack Off & Cofagrigus + Recover + Stealth Rock
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...loswine-slack-off.3570555/page-3#post-6827374
Week 9
Drapion + Tough Claws & Hoopa + Baton Pass
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-hoopa-baton-pass.3570555/page-3#post-6837502

List of Theorymons
+ Dark-type
+ Rapid Spin
+ Poison-type + Sludge Bomb
+ Freeze-Dry
+ Fairy-type + Magic Bounce
+ Sheer Force
+ Soft-Boiled + Natural Cure
+ Tail Glow
+ Poison Heal
+ Flower Veil
+ Magic Guard

+ Sticky Web
+ Water Veil
+ Recover
+ Recover + Stealth Rock

+ Slack Off
+ Tough Claws
+ Baton Pass
 
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alright I suppose I'll make a contribution because this seems really interesting.

With an added Dark typing, Mega Banette becomes surprisingly viable. It's a lot like Spiritomb but with an actually useful ability, a lot more power, and unfortunately less bulk. With a new Dark / Ghost typing, Mega Banette suddenly has a slew of opportunities to switch in and wreak havoc, especially versus Fighting-types such as Hitmonlee and Gallade. Since Mega Banette becomes overall a better Pokemon, we can see that more people would want to utilize Mega Banette for what it can contribute to a team, and one of those contributions is as a spinblocker. Mega Banette obviously has the upper hand on Hitmontop and Hitmolee, but Blastoise would probably still win against Mega Banette. Let's not forget Dark's offensive implications, either, though. Knock Off and Sucker Punch are boosted and become much more viable options than before, and more powerful ones at that.

Since Mega Banette would probably rise in usage, it will become known for much more than simply being an almost failsafe revenge killer. Spinner, revenge killer, Fighting check, and general disruptor are all on the list. Because of this, the metagame will shift a little bit, I think, but not much. I think Fighting-types would suffer as a result, seeing as Mega Banette can still use DBond to kill Virizion and Scrafty, so I think they'd see a drop in usage, especially since Granbull move up a bit for its ability to Intimidate Mega Banette and heal its team of burns. I also think Psychic-types such as Slowking and Sigilyph will become a little less used seeing as they have another check to face down and another mon that can Pursuit trap them, which I forgot to mention is another thing Mega-Banette can do, though it doesn't have much room on its move set.

At the end of the day, though, Mega Banette is still the jack of a lot of trades but not the master of any of them. I think Mega Banette improves as a Pokemon, and could compete with Spiritonb a bit, who would become less popular as a result. But I don't think adding a Dark typing to Mega Banette wll change the overall meta much, if at all. It sure is interesting, though, and expands Mega Banette's set options.
 

Lord Death Man

i cant read
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Mega Banette with a dark type literally hits just as hard as Band Spiritomb; that's a pretty interesting position to be in. Access to Gunk Shot very much improves a now-excellent 2 move coverage and offers a serious offensive niche over Tomb as well. Pursuit would become much more usable on it too, which helps improve the Spiritomb comparisons. It'd be a strong force in the RU metagame in my opinion; it'd just have so much going for it that it desperately wishes it had now.

Boosted Knock off is like 40% stronger than Shadow Claw or something, and Sucker is twice as strong as shadow sneak, which is a crazy power jump. Being walled by Mega Steelix always sucks but it's not the end of the world for a mon that can really harass a lot of team archetypes; Willo + Taunt or sub 3 attacks both seem like that could be very strong on a mon like this.

Rapid Spin Miltank has a huge amount of stuff going on. Sap Sipper + that speed could be used for a grass check that also spins, access to a wide support movepool gives it a ton of options, and scrappy spin is a massively unexplored niche. Thick Fat can even be used as a Glalie check that can spin. If this was around, I don't think it'd be around for long; I could see myself wanting to use this UU. It's incredibly versatile and would be amazing addition to the tier.
 

Take Azelfie

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I guess I'll talk about Lauren's choice for a little bit.

Giving Miltank Rapid Spin is so amazing. I think the main thing that was holding it down before was that it didn't really have that thing that made it stand out. It has recovery, Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, and Heal Bell. But it was often outshined in many areas because other Pokemon did those roles better. But now with Rapid Spin it has a clear niche alongside all of these tools. ScrappySpin is great since there is nothing to block Miltank's Rapid Spin. Thick Fat and Sap Sipper gives it good "resistances and immunities" which is nice for a pure normal type. It also has a warpable speed being able to outpace almost anything it wants making it good for speed creeps. It's HP and Defensive stats are pretty high with an okay special defense meaning it won't be dying anytime soon. Overall this would be really nifty for the tier giving us a pure support Pokemon that benefits a lot of other Pokemon.

When it comes down to voting I feel this will be a close one.
 
Yay a Theorymon thread!

So I want to talk about Mega Banette for the moment. Mega Banette has a whopping 165 base Attack, which combined with dark STABs, could quite possibly rise out of the depths of C rank (although, as mentioned before, it's not getting much higher thanks to Steelix). Although facing some competition with Spiritomb, it still has a cool niche in a high Attack stat and a good physical ghost STAB. With a little bit of speed control, it's almost guaranteed two kills. Also nobody has done any full sets, so I'm going to show some of what I think Mega Banette could do.

A good set-
Banette-Mega @ Banettite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Shadow Claw
- Gunk Shot
- Substitute / Destiny Bond / Will-O-Wisp / Pursuit / Knock Off / Anything

There is not much to say about this. Sucker Punch is a very powerful priority attack that's now STAB. Shadow Claw hits Pokemon slower than you that resist Sucker Punch or are liable to hit you with a crippling status move. Gunk Shot hits Fairies and OHKOes Virizion after Stealth Rock damage. The other spot is free for something that takes advantage of Prankster including Substitute, Destiny Bond, Will-O, etc. or an attacking move.

A stupid set-
Banette-Mega @ Banettite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Shadow Claw / Shadow Sneak
- Gunk Shot
- Role Play

Well, you might ask, how is this unique to our Theorymon and not just plain old Mega Banette? STAB Sucker Punch is the answer; it takes advantage of many cool abilities. Switch this in on something like Medicham and you just put yourself in a great position. They switch out, and you get to take advantage of whatever they switch in. Intimidate from Granbull, Regenerator from Alomomola, heck, even Clear Body from Diancie allows you to not be Intimidate by the likes of Granbull, Mawile, (no way someone would have this on the same team as a Diancie but we are just Theorymonning here), and Hitmontop. If they stay in and decide to get a clean 2HKO with an elemental punch expecting to be Pursuit trapped and not caring about Destiny Bond, GG, you just got a Pure Power Banette. You kill with Sucker Punch.

Please GameFreak make this happen :(
 

Take Azelfie

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Okay the discussion period is over, it is time to vote for which one you like better!

Dark-type + Mega Banette
Rapid Spin + Miltank
 
Hmmm.

+ Posion-type + Sludge Bomb seems kinda OP to me. I mean, Aromatisse is already like B+ or something, and while this boost makes sense I think its a bit much. Aroma probs wouldn't even run Sludge Bomb over other options. I guess it's OK.

+ Freeze-Dry is powerful. Begone, Qwilfish and Virizion, depart at once, Alomomola and Seismitoad!
I like this. Jynx doesn't become too strong, but has a really nice speed and SpA to take advantage of STAB freeze-dry. While still quite frail, Jynx has a really nice new niche.
 

fran17

I COULD BE BANNED!
Poison type Aromatisse looks really weird lol, Aromatisse is used because it's a pretty good fighting/dragon check. With poison it becomes too easy to hit with a coverage move (EQ for Hitmonlee, ZHB for Sawk, Virizion, and Medicham, Flygon hits supereffectively with STAB EQ). With poison types it also doesn't get some really useful resistences, except maybe the grass one, which would make Aroma a decent venu check, but it isn't a really good reason to justify the use of a Fairy/Poison Aromatisse with all the weakness it has.

Freeze-Dry Jynx sounds something really fun to use. I've always seen discussion about the coverage Jynx needed, but with Freeze-Dry particular coverage isn't needed anymore. Freeze-Dry+Focus Blast hit all the meta hard, and Nasty Plot and Lovely Kiss increases more the power Jynx has.
 

Natan

formerly Randomnick
is a Pre-Contributor
Aromatisse + Poison Type seems not really good, Aromatisse will take hits like Earthquake (STAB of Flygon and coverage of Hitmonlee) and Zen Headbutt (Coverage of Virizion and Sawk and Medicham's STAB) and even things like Defensive Seismitoad, any Psychic or Ground type can deal with it using STABs, Psychic isn't a common type at all, but Ground type is very used and Aromatisse won't even run a Poison-type STAB, the only change is it gains 2 new weaknesses (1 being really common) and Poison (a no common type) isn't supereffective anymore, this won't be so good.
Jynx + Freeze Dry Freeze-Dry allowing it to hit Water-types is enough to turn Jynx into a more useful threat, seems really useful for me...
 

Lord Death Man

i cant read
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
my rational behind poison-type aromatisse was that it greatly decreases the ability of venusaur to switch into tisse while giving teams a pretty easy venusaur answer, makes it immune to toxic and able to absorb toxic spikes, and gives it a usable (but not necessarily great) alternative to moonblast that takes on different threats. the main thing was definately venusaur + residual damage, the two things that are really making tisse a very unappealing option right now.

the only fighting types that can take it on better is zen headbutt virizion, medicham, gallade, and i'm of the opinion that tisse is a mediocre check to those to begin with; /poison lets it take on cm and stone edge viriz variants as well. almost nothing else carries zen headbutt (except sawk who also carries poison jab), and earthquake just isn't a common coverage move on fighting types. losing the ability to check flygon sucks, but we have other fairies who can so i personally didn't feel this was important, and flygon is hard pressed to come in and often checked by bulky water types that pair well with tisse, such as slowking.

freeze dry jynx sounds crazy good, freeze dry is an amazingly spammable attack and it also frees up a move on jynx's pretty strained movesets. sub/nasty plot/lovely kiss/freeze dry is a lot better than the ice beam variant of that set, for example.
 

Natan

formerly Randomnick
is a Pre-Contributor
my rational behind poison-type aromatisse was that it greatly decreases the ability of venusaur to switch into tisse while giving teams a pretty easy venusaur answer, makes it immune to toxic and able to absorb toxic spikes, and gives it a usable (but not necessarily great) alternative to moonblast that takes on different threats. the main thing was definately venusaur + residual damage, the two things that are really making tisse a very unappealing option right now.

the only fighting types that can take it on better is zen headbutt virizion, medicham, gallade, and i'm of the opinion that tisse is a mediocre check to those to begin with; /poison lets it take on cm and stone edge viriz variants as well. almost nothing else carries zen headbutt (except sawk who also carries poison jab), and earthquake just isn't a common coverage move on fighting types. losing the ability to check flygon sucks, but we have other fairies who can so i personally didn't feel this was important, and flygon is hard pressed to come in and often checked by bulky water types that pair well with tisse, such as slowking.
But Psychic types now can easily OHKO / 2HKO things that usually can't (Meloetta AV can't 2HKO Aromatisse without Poison) and Amoonguss, Qwilfish and Weezing (a bit uncommon, but useful) are the main reason that allows Fighting types to run Zen Headbutt. Medicham Zen Headbutt is awesome cuz is it main STAB if the other team have a Ghost (unless it is Spiritomb) and Sawk usually runs Zen Headbutt to hit Qwilfish and Amoonguss with power, then Zen Headbutt is a good coverage and Ground type pokémon are all able to 2HKO Aromatisse if offensive
Against Mega Camerupt Aromatisse can't even go for a Fire Blast miss or stall out its PP with Wish
176+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse + Poison type: 476-564 (117.2 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
176+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 292-345 (71.9 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Against Flygon...well, RIP Aromatisse
252 SpA Life Orb Flygon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse + Poison type: 307-361 (75.6 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse + Poison type: 266-314 (65.5 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 246-290 (81.7 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Against AV / Scarf Meloetta can't even avoid a 2HKO
252 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 160-190 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse + Poison type: 320-380 (78.8 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

CB Sawk's main set is Close Combat, Knock Off, Zen Headbutt and Poison Jab
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse + Poison type: 248-294 (61 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Seismitoad defensive can 3HKO it, not a big problem, but against Offensive Seismitoad Aromatisse can't even avoid a 2HKO
252+ SpA Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse + Poison type: 270-318 (66.5 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Seismitoad Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 190-224 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Medicham's main STAB now have 50% roll (or 100% with Stealth Rocks) from OHKOing with LO and guaranted 2HKO with Scarf
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse: 144-169 (35.4 - 41.6%) -- 80.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse + Poison type: 288-338 (70.9 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse + Poison-type: 374-439 (92.1 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Rhyperior...RIP Aromatisse
28+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse + Poison-type: 288-342 (70.9 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 232 SpD Rhyperior: 118-139 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- 46.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Dugtrio is another awesome killer
252 Atk Life Orb Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse + Poison-type: 276-328 (67.9 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 136-162 (64.4 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sigilyph is another thing able to take a Moonblast and easily 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse: 260-307 (64 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sigilyph: 123-145 (43 - 50.6%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

Slowking is guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Slowking Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse: 160-189 (39.4 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Slowking Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse + Poison type: 320-378 (78.8 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Let's talk about Hoopa, a 2HKO -> guaranteed OHKO with Rocks in field
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 230-270 (56.6 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse + Poison type: 374-439 (92.1 - 108.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

About Venusaur...well, without Stealth Rocks with Life Orb has a low roll from 2HKOing, but still is a chance
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse + Poison type: 192-227 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 192-227 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
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Why would Aromatisse get a Poison type? It's a bet of a stretch but I like it :)

Getting a Poison-type is a cool defensive type for Aromatisse since it is now the bane of most Fighting types in the tier bar Medicham. Seriously, stuff like Scrafty would practically fall out of existence. It also makes for a good Grass counter. It has better offensive potential too; a 99 base SpA is nothing to scoff at. It's a cool defensive pokemon as is, and giving it a Poison type, arguably one of the best defensive types in the game, really adds that extra boost.
Although Mega Steelix...sigh.

Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aromatherapy
- Wish
- Sludge Bomb / Protect
- Moonblast

A standard defensive Aromatisse. Physically defensive could work, but I chose specially defensive to capitalize on Aromatisse's new-found ability to handle Venusaur. There isn't much else to say. Just Wish and Aromatherapy to support your team and add some offensive power with Sludge Bomb or guarantee safe recovery with Protect.

Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Healer
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 0 Spe or 0 Atk / 0 Spe if no HP Fire
- Trick Room
- Sludge Bomb
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Energy Ball / Aromatherapy

Now here's an innovation. Aromatisse is an appealing option for Trick Room teams, however uncommon they may be, and turns into quite the special attacker under the effects of Trick Room. Trick Room is obvious because it's the reason this set exists, Sludge Bomb and Moonblast provide powerful STAB coverage. HP Fire bops Escavalier, Energy Ball bops Rhyperior and Gastrodon, and Aromatherapy is an option if the status removal is preferred.

Honestly, I don't use Jynx too much, so I don't feel very qualified to talk about it. It's still a very cool option nevertheless and certainly enough to make me use it more. Gastrodon is pretty much killed by these changes, RIP.

EDIT: These two Theorymons actually help each other quite well! Aromatisse hates Ground-types, which Jynx can take care of, and Jynx hates Dark types and damage, which Aromatisse can handle. Just pointing that out :)
 
I don't really like giving Aromatisse an additional Poison typing, mostly for reasons that Randomnick already explained. I thought the change was really interesting at first but giving Aromatisse an immunity to TSpikes (which aren't that common in the first place rn) and letting it take on Venusaur better doesn't seem like a great tradeoff for becoming a shakier check to Medicham, Sawk, Flygon, and Mega Camerupt. There are other Pokemon such as Seismitoad, Rhyperior, Sigilyph, and Slowking that can also hit Aromatisse harder with its new secondary Poison typing, but Aromatisse isn't exactly known for being able to check those mons, so it doesn't really matter. One saving grace Aromatisse gets from a Poison typing is becoming a kick-ass counter to Tangrowth; though this definitely isn't enough to make up for Aromatisse's added flaws, it's still cool.

As for Jynx, I haven't used it much, but I think Freeze Dry is a decent addition to its movepool. It's not really useful for Qwilfish since it can't touch Jynx with a Substitute up, anyways. But being able to OHKO stuff like Slowking and Clawitzer after a Nasty Plot is pretty cool, as well as flat-out OHKOing Gastrodon and especially Quagsire. The drop in power makes me a little worried about using Freeze Dry against neutral targets, but Jynx can still use Ice Beam if it wants, so it's all good. I think this change makes Jynx a little bit better in the RU metagame, seeing as it's not checked by Slowking anymore.

Also it's "Poison typing" not "Posion typing" :D Take Azelfie
 
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Take Azelfie

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Jynx is really cool as it can get passed some of its checks / counters with the combination of Dry Skin + Freeze-dry. Even offensive Pokemon like Samurott and Kabutops can't revenge kill and now Jynx can do something back. Sub + NP sets would be really cool since you can take advantage of the plethora of Water-types like Gastro and Qwilfish. This little monor buff actually helps it out a lot.
 
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