150 bp with no drawback is a rather good deal that should be worth losing some coverage. You can refrain from using dragon stab if you really need it, since head smash would hit most things harder anyway
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Resource RU Viability Ranking: ORAS Edition
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
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head smash has more resists then draco meteor does, and most of those resists are physically defensive. Cobalion, rhyperior, bronzong, doublade, registeel, gurdurr, hitmontop, mega steelix, torterra, even ferroseed all resist head smash and have good defense, and most can respond with super effective fighting/ground stab to 2hko. Of course, tyrunt can has other moves, but even the eq weak mons on that list can live a CB eq and then switch to a flying type. Head smash will be very strong, but it isn't close to dragalge, who's counters basically consist of bronzong, registeel, and ferroseed.
Although expert belt tyrantrum could be interesting, luring in these guys and hitting them with a super effective eq (or ice/fire fang if tort or ferro become popular) while they use stealth rocks or something expecting a switch. Tyrantrum does have the physical bulk to live something like an iron head from registeel, or a secret sword from cobalion.
Although expert belt tyrantrum could be interesting, luring in these guys and hitting them with a super effective eq (or ice/fire fang if tort or ferro become popular) while they use stealth rocks or something expecting a switch. Tyrantrum does have the physical bulk to live something like an iron head from registeel, or a secret sword from cobalion.
You're missing the fact that Tyrantrum can bust through those resists fairly easily. CB EQ / Superpower easily 2HKOs / OHKOs most Steel-types, thus putting them in 2HKO range at worst for Head Smash. Half of those Pokemon aren't even relevant in the first place. Ferroseed isn't exactly viable w/o Mega Shark, and I haven't seen a single Gurdurr/Torterra since XY. I think what will make Rock Head Tyrantrum so powerful is that it has all the tools it needs to blow past just about every Rock resist. Going by theorymon alone, a set such as Head Smash / Outrage / Superpower / Crunch seems pretty appealing if you ask me.
And Expert Belt sounds terrible on a Rock / Dragon Pokemon for obvious reasons. If you're not gonna nuke with CB, then LO seems better since you wouldn't take recoil from Head Smash anyways.
And Expert Belt sounds terrible on a Rock / Dragon Pokemon for obvious reasons. If you're not gonna nuke with CB, then LO seems better since you wouldn't take recoil from Head Smash anyways.
Yes, but you have a STAB of 1.5x your original strength and Tyrantrum has enough coverage options to work with, including the relatively spammable Outrage (once Aromatisse has been wiped out) and Superpower, which rounds out your coverage. Hell, I can even see Rock Polish Tyrantrum working well and Dragon Dance improving because of its brutal power with Head Smash. It's definitely becoming a better Pokémon simply due to recoilless Head Smash, just because it's so brutally strong.
I can see this guy rising up to A- or even A with Rock Head, but I'm gonna wait until Sturdy Tyrunt is official to make a nomination for it to move up.
Alrighty guys, as promised i'm going to bring up some of the changes that were suggested to me over PM!
Some of the suggested changes made include
Hitmonlee up to A rank
Mega Abomasnow up to A+ rank
Mega Audino down to C-/D rank
Mega Camerupt down to A- rank
Feraligatr up to C+ rank
Poliwrath down to D rank
Regular Audino down to B- rank
Skuntank down to B rank
Jolteon up to A- rank
So, does anyone have any strong opinions on these? Personally i'd be all for moving Hitmonlee back up to A rank in particular.
Also, i'd have absolutely no issue with moving Emboar up to the A ranks now that Reckless is released. I'll definitely do that the next time i update the OP unless anyone strongly disagrees w/ it and presents some good arguments.
Lastly, i'd really like all of you to *try* to keep discussion about unreleased Pokemon (Rock Head Tyrantrum) out of the viability thread for now. I know all of us are hyped to theorymon it atm but it's pretty hard to rank something that isn't even legal until the 30th x.x
Some of the suggested changes made include
Hitmonlee up to A rank
Mega Abomasnow up to A+ rank
Mega Audino down to C-/D rank
Mega Camerupt down to A- rank
Feraligatr up to C+ rank
Poliwrath down to D rank
Regular Audino down to B- rank
Skuntank down to B rank
Jolteon up to A- rank
So, does anyone have any strong opinions on these? Personally i'd be all for moving Hitmonlee back up to A rank in particular.
Also, i'd have absolutely no issue with moving Emboar up to the A ranks now that Reckless is released. I'll definitely do that the next time i update the OP unless anyone strongly disagrees w/ it and presents some good arguments.
Lastly, i'd really like all of you to *try* to keep discussion about unreleased Pokemon (Rock Head Tyrantrum) out of the viability thread for now. I know all of us are hyped to theorymon it atm but it's pretty hard to rank something that isn't even legal until the 30th x.x
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Hitmonlee up to A: agree. Been using Hitmonlee lately and frankly nothing much changed for it. It's still that incredible wallbreaking that can spin and has neat priority options. It also likes the excess of Steel-types and lack of Ghosts (doublade etc).
Mega Abomasnow up to A+: Not currently, no. There are a lot more megas to consider and a lot more wallbreakers and also stuff like Pangoro which don't even use a mega evolution. I understand the appeal of SD + Priority though, and the fact that Abomasnow can run adamant and has hail too for cancelling lefties/extra 6% damage, but still.
Mega Camerupt down to A-: Agree.
No opinions/don't care where the others end up, but I'm iffy on Jolteon simply because it's forced to run HP Ice for Sceptile and then it's kinda cockblocked by Rhyperior, although it can wear it down slowly I guess..
Mega Abomasnow up to A+: Not currently, no. There are a lot more megas to consider and a lot more wallbreakers and also stuff like Pangoro which don't even use a mega evolution. I understand the appeal of SD + Priority though, and the fact that Abomasnow can run adamant and has hail too for cancelling lefties/extra 6% damage, but still.
Mega Camerupt down to A-: Agree.
No opinions/don't care where the others end up, but I'm iffy on Jolteon simply because it's forced to run HP Ice for Sceptile and then it's kinda cockblocked by Rhyperior, although it can wear it down slowly I guess..
wat
Anyway, Hitmonlee is one of the faces of RU, so it moving up was overdue(plus it is pretty cool for the reasons Arikado listed).
Obama is a horrible president and shouldn't be at A+
Mega Audino isn't horrible, but its typing really hinders it, so yeah.
I love Mega Camerupt, but really, its speed and typing hurts it so much. Agree.
Feraligatr is a neat Pokemon, and with Serperior most likely to go, it is only going to get better.
Poliwrath is pretty niche, walling all water types in the tier, bar Lanturn, and has a few good sets, Disagree.
Quoting a previos nomination of mine since I still stand by it, and it got no attention before.
Why is Cinccino so low?
It doesn't hit really hard, its speed tier is worse now, has no bulk, and it is walled to death by bulky steel types.
That's actually because the official site for some reason is saying it IS going to release a Rock Head Tyrunt. To quote serebii:
"If you enter in this competition, you will receive a special Tyrunt with the ability of Rock Head. However, while Tyrantrum has the ability Rock Head coded in, Tyrunt has Sturdy as its Hidden Ability so we are awaiting clarification."'
So the official site appears to be in error in this circumstance.
It's Sturdy Tyrunt that evolves into Rock Head Tyrantrum. As such, I will be waiting until Sturdy Tyrunt is released to nominate Tyrantrum to move up. That's what I meant.
Probopass for C-
Hard counters Mega Bird, also switches in pretty well on Moltres and Dragle. In general it takes on a ton of the tier's special attackers really well. The 4x fighting and ground weakness are the obvious downsides in this respect, but having it on a team makes it far more difficult for things like specs drag and specs melo to just fire off STABs and beat things. Access to volt switch means that unlike common bird/drag checks such as Registeel and Zong, you're not inherently losing tempo just by switching it in. Obviously it receives significant competition from the other bulky steels, but it can fill a unique niche on some more balanced and stall oriented teams that like having an immediate answer to some of the tier's top threats, or enjoy having the ability to force the tier's top threats to play less aggressively.
Hard counters Mega Bird, also switches in pretty well on Moltres and Dragle. In general it takes on a ton of the tier's special attackers really well. The 4x fighting and ground weakness are the obvious downsides in this respect, but having it on a team makes it far more difficult for things like specs drag and specs melo to just fire off STABs and beat things. Access to volt switch means that unlike common bird/drag checks such as Registeel and Zong, you're not inherently losing tempo just by switching it in. Obviously it receives significant competition from the other bulky steels, but it can fill a unique niche on some more balanced and stall oriented teams that like having an immediate answer to some of the tier's top threats, or enjoy having the ability to force the tier's top threats to play less aggressively.
Alrighty guys, made some updates :]
Still slightly unsure on Jolteon, but i might move it up to A- rank in the future.
Also, does anyone have thoughts on Delphox and Mega Steelix in particular?
Hitmonlee moved up to A rank
Camerupt (Mega) moved down to A- rank
Poliwrath moved down to D rank
Feraligatr moved up to C+ rank
Probopass added to D rank
both Audino and Audino (Mega) moved down to B- rank, might move down the latter further if you guys want it
Skuntank moved down to B rank
Emboar moved up to A- rank, might move it up further if you guys want it
Camerupt (Mega) moved down to A- rank
Poliwrath moved down to D rank
Feraligatr moved up to C+ rank
Probopass added to D rank
both Audino and Audino (Mega) moved down to B- rank, might move down the latter further if you guys want it
Skuntank moved down to B rank
Emboar moved up to A- rank, might move it up further if you guys want it
Still slightly unsure on Jolteon, but i might move it up to A- rank in the future.
Also, does anyone have thoughts on Delphox and Mega Steelix in particular?
Delphox for C rank
Delphox was once a meta defining mon at the time of xy ru with high speed not many pokes could boast. Now is not that time of xy ru where it was meta defining. It's speed has gotten worse pursuit trappers on the rise houndoom joining the tier plus better wall breakers are make it's life miserable. Finally it faces competition from other wallbreakers likr dragalge pajda serp and mega bird
Delphox was once a meta defining mon at the time of xy ru with high speed not many pokes could boast. Now is not that time of xy ru where it was meta defining. It's speed has gotten worse pursuit trappers on the rise houndoom joining the tier plus better wall breakers are make it's life miserable. Finally it faces competition from other wallbreakers likr dragalge pajda serp and mega bird
I disagree. I've laddered a few matches and I came against Delphox twice in those matches.. and I honestly had no switch-in, especially since stuff that counter Moltres/Houndoom can't really counter Delphox. Moltres has a few issues: both it's STABs are resisted by Rhyperior, its HP Grass is relatively weak, it's x4 weak to Stealth Rock, and doesn't have 100+ speed. Delpox has none of those issues, but it does have a couple other like the ones you mentioned (pursuit weak, provides free switches to Houndoom), but I honestly don't think they're enough to warrant it to drop. Barely anything can switch in easily because other than Houndoom nothing in RU that I can think of resists both its dual STABs and doesn't get by Grass Knot, which is amazing.
I'm not saying it's not outclassed.. especially because there are 4 other Fire-types (although I wouldn't really count Fletchinder) higher than it in viability rankings, but I'd say Delphox is pretty much on the same boat as Clawitzer, a scary wallbreaker that the meta is a bit unkind to. Although unlike Clawitzer it's not just purely a wallbreaker cuz it can act as a sweeper too.
I'd say keep it in B-, that's lo enough already tbh.
On the other hand: I wanna nominate Houndoom to drop to B+ but I'm too lazy to make a post about it now lol.
I got you boi
Houndoom was the big thing when it dropped. Mega Doom has since been banned, and Houndoom is still being used. It's by no means a bad pokemon, but it deserves to be dropped. A physical based set (often with three Dark type Attacks and Fire Blast) is rather situational. 95 Atk is lackluster, and this really only helps vs Psychic types. I get that that is his job, but that's basically it. After pursuit trapping, Houndoom offers a plethora of switchins, such as premier wallbreakers including about 95% of fighting types, Dragalge, Clawitzer etc. A Nasty Plot set is hard pressed to set up, and regardless of the set, a SR weakness, overall fraility, and being setup bait for too much shit warrants a drop.
I'll edit in a post about MGlalie for A+ after I see American Sniper ;D (I'm sure no one will agree with me but it's A+ deserving I swear ;-;)
Scyther ->C+/B: I think scyther is an under rated mon. It can propose to be a threat to slow teams with banded u-turn and a great revenge killer with scarf. Personal i think it's best 2 sets are Banded and Sub Swords Dance. The swords dance set can set up on a lot of bulky mons such as gligar, alomomola, amoonguss {if you don't have foul play) which is usually scared out, and more. It isn't a bad mon to begin with being amazingly good in BW RU. It gets nice speed and bulk, pairing with technician and 110 base atk. Only downfall would be the quad weakness to rocks, but not like there aren't good defoggers in the tier to help with that. It's an amazing offensive mon with many roles (one being baton pass).
Sawk -> B+: Sawk is an amazing offensive presence. There are very little switch ins to a banded close combat. If there is a switch in it can be covered with it's coverage moves. Sturdy will guarantee it lives any hit if at 100% health. base 125 atk is nothing to laugh at, considering how slow the tier is base 85 speed isn't unusable even with an adamant nature. It may not be as strong as the Reckless emboar but it isn't far. Paired up with hazard control and a healing wish supporter+ hazards will definitely allow it to put in work against the opposing team.
Sawk -> B+: Sawk is an amazing offensive presence. There are very little switch ins to a banded close combat. If there is a switch in it can be covered with it's coverage moves. Sturdy will guarantee it lives any hit if at 100% health. base 125 atk is nothing to laugh at, considering how slow the tier is base 85 speed isn't unusable even with an adamant nature. It may not be as strong as the Reckless emboar but it isn't far. Paired up with hazard control and a healing wish supporter+ hazards will definitely allow it to put in work against the opposing team.
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That seems a bit high to me, I don't deny that Sawk with Sturdy + Hazard Control + Healing Wish is really really good. But thats a ton of support thats required to keep sturdy intact for it to make a significant impact on the game, A rank mons don't need that much support to be effective.
i'm mostly going for B+ but it's a really good mon and it could use mold breaker if any other set for eelektros, weezing or any other levitate mon
I think you are aiming way too high for Scyther. Its choice sets might have potential to be decent, but the fact of the matter is Scyther is simply not that good in this metagame. Its weaknesses due to its typing are all pretty bad, especially a 4x Rock weakness, so it loses half of its HP to Stealth Rock. Now I know Moltres and Fletchinder both suffer this very problem as well, but they are much more threatening due to the former having nuclear power and Roost, and the latter has priority Acrobatics which is dope, as well as Will-O-Wisp. Scyther is not that threatening, especially since it has trouble taking on some of the prominent threats in this metagame. It absolutely needs Spin or Defog support and is not as rewarding as Moltres or Fletchinder with it, and it has a number of checks and counters such as Fletchinder, Mega Pidgeot, Emboar, Jolteon, and many others, all because Scyther's typing gives it so many weaknesses, and its movepool is not all that great and has somewhat average coverage. That being said, I could see it in C or C+ to say the very least because its CB set is a nice U-turn user that hits hard and fast and can give momentum, and its SD set might be okay with its bulk with Eviolite. But putting it in B+ is simply not okay, there is absolutely no way Scyther is on the same level as useful Pokemon such as Tyrantrum, Shiftry, and Registeel, let along lower B Rank mons such as Delphox, Mesprit, Clawitzer, Heliolisk, etc.
Sawk is cool and all but Montsegur just hit the nail on the head, it needs quite a lot of support compared to B+/A Rank mons. Plus it faces real competition even though its power, coverage, and abilities are all cool advantages over them.
Sawk is cool and all but Montsegur just hit the nail on the head, it needs quite a lot of support compared to B+/A Rank mons. Plus it faces real competition even though its power, coverage, and abilities are all cool advantages over them.
it outspeeds half of those mons and does over 50 to most. why is emboar so high when it's weal to moltres and fletchinder? those mons are 4x weak to rocks too. If in on a threatening mon it u-turns out. Pidgeot is leaving and it's gets enough coverage to deal with a lot of mons. It can clean up late game after taking out scarfers and anything that outspeeds. Technician Quick Attack is cool too. Not to mention sub sd can set up on things that would switch in to the predicted band. it's a versatile mon
252 Atk Choice Band Scyther Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Delphox: 368-434 (126.4 - 149.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Delphox: 255-301 (87.6 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Scyther U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Clawitzer: 169-201 (59.7 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Clawitzer: 219-258 (77.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Scyther Brick Break vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 188-222 (61.4 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (2hko'd on predicted switch if anything)
Uh what does Pidgeot potentially leaving have to do with Scyther's current viability (for the record I'm voting dnb on bird jesus as are a lot of other ppl), also I didn't comment on Scyther cause I haven't seen anyone use it in the current meta so I had no opinion on it, but your arguments for it aren't that great lol. The reason that Moltres and Fletchinder are highly ranked is that they have more things going for them than Scyther does as mentioned by scrafty above. Not to mention Moltres and Fletchinder both have Roost for their main sets to mitigate rocks damage while Scyther with the banded set (which is the one you are arguing should make it rise) does not. Main reason I replied and stated similar info to Scrafty is cause the fact that a suspect is potentially leaving or getting banned should not affect a nomination (unless its to hold off one until the suspect is over).
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