and i explicitly stated CB medicham...obviously that did not work either? are CB sets non-viable? because if they are, which CB set is better is worth denotating in an argument about the mon as a whole. yes, i'm aware that your argument revolves around sd gallade > nonscarf cham, but my counter-argument is that CB medicham is better than CB gallade, which is why i'd use it in a CB role. Would i use it overall over SD? idk, i think that they do perform different roles; also, now we get into Bu + BP
Should probably have made this clear: CB isn't even on the forefront of my mind when discussing Gallade sets, since it is obvious Medicham does that better, hence there would be little reason to use CB Gallade in the first place. What I'm getting here is that SD Gallade kind of outperforms CB Medicham itself, while you're coming off as purposely bringing up an inferior Gallade set to justify CB Cham.
alomo specifically was simply a calc designed to denotate sheer power, though i think you're aware of this as well and making a larger point about the nature of this power in general. Fine, but being this much stronger means there are going to be specific 2HKOes or OHKOes garnered, especially when you take into account, say, foes being worn down, where Medicham is getting those OHKOes far sooner than Gallade.
This is true, but Medicham's main KOing move yields much more risks than Gallade's, plus Cham being Choice locked would also make it easier to play around (especially in the case of Regen mons), meaning that Medicham can struggle to actually snag KOes more effectively than Gallade would.
BU medicham doesn't need support so much as it provides it; pair it with something that beats all of those threats, and it's quite possible for it to wreak havoc (drapion is a big 1), whereas it seems like Gallade needs support to sweep. Keep in mind that this medicham is also hitting harder off the bat; in fact, +1 hjk does a bit more than +2 Close Combat. As a stall player, the idea of Medicham baton passing boosts away to some other sweeper makes taking him on a lot harder. honestly, you should have stuff that is o.k. against Medicham's checks and counters anyhow, and making that stuff physical isn't *that* difficult either. any physical attacker appreciates a boost without the counter coming out as said boost is achieved
The way I see it, most of Medicham's BU recipients + Medicham still don't have the sheer steamrolling potential than Gallade has; in fact Gallade is one of the biggest threats to slower teams since
Pangoro. In essence, Gallade only needs very minimal support to clean bulkier teams by itself, while Medicham's recipients may still need
additional support outside of Cham's Baton Pass in order to properly clean up. I get that the idea of Medicham's Baton Pass gives its teammates a good head start, but for stall teams, BU Cham itself doesn't actually seem like something that needs 'taking on' since most stall teams should be able to
inherently respond to it; so what if +1 HJK is stronger than +2 CC, that doesn't change the fact that Medicham is still easier to wall than Gallade due to the former's limited coverage. Thus, stall teams only really need to worry about Medicham's teammates rather than Cham itself, and if those teammates still find themselves walled by an individual threat each, Cham's presence can be notably diminished as a result. As for Gallade, it is more or less a one-man army against stall that just needs some mild support for bulky Fairies, as opposed to teammates that need to be able to take out bulky Fairies, Psychics, Ghosts, etc., which makes it much more of an efficient wallbreaker. In my honest opinion, it seems your experiences with BUPass Medicham seems to stem from you trying it out and pleased that it works well, and not realizing that SD Gallade can break down cores in a much simpler manner.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 292-344 (71.9 - 84.7%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 186-219 (45.8 - 53.9%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 232-274 (57.1 - 67.4%)
it's a fair argument to make that SD gallade is better against balance, but just speaking personally as a stall player, I don't find it that scary, and don't find it more threatening than CB medicham (who can even whip out a Trick at any time.) it'll sweep me from time to time, but so will Medicham.
On the surface, it does look like Medicham has a more favorable matchup against Aromatisse, but in reality this requires so much predictions that actually achieving said 2HKO is far trickier than you let on. Even if you got the first prediction right, that doesn't mean you're homefree; you have to call out Aromatisse's next switch, and you're still not free to start spamming HJKs willy-nilly, since Aromatisse can threaten Protects to punish you; Tricking away the CB on anything but Aromatisse would also rob you of any chance to beat Aroma. All Gallade has to do is SD and Zen Headbutt twice, because Gallade's bulk allows it to beat Aromatisse 1v1; if they switch you simply destroy them with your next attack. It is also easy to force Aromatisse into KO range with Knock Off + the aforementioned 'Roar to deny Wish' strategy. Hell, you can even put freaking
Roseli Berry on Gallade just to smoothen the Aromatisse matchup.
+2 252+ Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 246-291 (60.5 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 180-212 (64.9 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roseli Berry Gallade: 90-106 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO
CB Cham needs to make the right predictions to truly give stall a hard time. Gallade barely needs to plan ahead: if it gets the chance to SD it can blow open holes in slower teams without much thought at all. That is a
huge difference between their wallbreaking capability, and I'm willing to bet you've just not played experienced Gallade players to notice this crucial fact.
Edit:
tehy
in short i don't feel that these two are so far off; the fact that you agree that CB is better, scarf is better, means that...well, I feel medicham is better, but I can see how gallade has the advantage versus balance. and one final note-it's not that I used BU + BP medicham, rather that I lost to it. Gallade is also a dangerous offensive threat, but not one i've lost to yet; admittedly, no one on ladder uses it, so...Dx
Scarf is the only main set that Cham does better than Gallade, because from what I've seen from the analysis and
this conversation, CB Cham isn't even particularly favored in the first place; heck, people argued that CB Gallade does outclass CB Cham (I guess Knock Off is that much of a deal). In any case, even if Cham pulls off Scarf and (now very arguably) CB better than Gallade, Gallade is still more consistent against bulky teams and even fast teams at the same time due to its high Special Defense. The calc of BU Medicham against Reuniclus is pretty impressive, though at this point you might want to bring that up on the analysis instead of me.
