I would delete a lot from this post but im on my phone...
Anyways, slowking's assault vest set is the one people talk abou in regards to stopping the special fire types. Not the spdef set.
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I would delete a lot from this post but im on my phone...
Anyways, slowking's assault vest set is the one people talk abou in regards to stopping the special fire types. Not the spdef set.
can we please move Escavalier down to A+ rank. while the av set is a very good tank with nifty and strong coverage options, a lot of the prominent threats it checked (eg raikou, shaymin, venomoth) have moved out of the tier, hindering its usefulness.
it may be hard to switch into especially for offensive teams, but it's not at all hard to wear down thanks to its shocking speed and it pretty much needs aromatisse's wish support to really function effectively. it's not hard for defensive teams to wall it, with most packing gligar or pelipper
it's also hard checked by any fire type, but that's obvious so yeah
the cb set is noteworthy for the sheer power of cb megahorn and usefulness as a pursuit trapper, but it too is easily worn down and/or checked, not to mention reliance on prediction
i'm not trying to say that esca is bad by any means, it's clearly still a solid mon, but it's not as good as it was in stage -1 because the meta has adapted unfavourably for the most part
it may be hard to switch into especially for offensive teams, but it's not at all hard to wear down thanks to its shocking speed and it pretty much needs aromatisse's wish support to really function effectively. it's not hard for defensive teams to wall it, with most packing gligar or pelipper
it's also hard checked by any fire type, but that's obvious so yeah
the cb set is noteworthy for the sheer power of cb megahorn and usefulness as a pursuit trapper, but it too is easily worn down and/or checked, not to mention reliance on prediction
i'm not trying to say that esca is bad by any means, it's clearly still a solid mon, but it's not as good as it was in stage -1 because the meta has adapted unfavourably for the most part
Time to cover more fun stuff:
Braviary: I understand that Jolteon coming down really takes away from the Scarf set, but to be perfectly honest here, the Scarf set wasn't Braviary's best set before Jolteon dropped imo. In fact, I found the Choice Band set to be the hardest to switch into. CB Braviary is a fantastic addition to Sticky Web teams as it benefits from the Speed lowering effect Web has while also punishing Defog severely. Although SubBU isn't the best sweeping set in the world, it's still a thing and can reliably set up on some of its would-be counters, such as Registeel and Gligar thanks to its ability to make 101 HP Subs and be immune to EQ. And if you really want to change up moves, you could just try LO Roost + 3 Attacks. May die a bit faster due to LO recoil, but the ability to run Roost and switch moves can help with this. Sure, Jolteon throws a wrench in the Scarf set, but Braviary was nominated for B+ for other reasons, and those reasons are still valid now with Jolteon in the tier.
Shiftry: Best offensive Defogger in the tier. It has a pretty neat offensive typing and really benefits from the Steel nerf in XY as they don't wall its STAB combination anymore. Sure, it has issues with some top threats (Virizion, Cobalion, Escavalier, etc.) but it's about the only Defog user that can be considered for an offensive team due to its offensive presence, and that niche is undeniable imo. It would be B/B+ material were it not for its inability to handle some key top threats, but it's niche as an offensive Defogger and ability to revenge kill faster, frailer sweepers with Sucker Punch on top of this is enough to warrant a spot in B- imo.
Doublade: While I haven't used this thing much myself, I have seen it in action a fair bit. I have to say that Doublade is a pretty solid Pokemon right now. It's a great switch-in to just about every Fighting-type in the tier (useful as 4 of them are in A ranks) and unlike most Steel-types, doesn't provide a free switch-in for Delphox. When considering spinblockers, Cofagrigus and Doublade should be the first two that come to mind, depending on what you're looking for. Thanks to Eviolite-boosted bulk, a solid base 110 Attack, the ability to boost that Attack with SD, and access to Shadow Sneak to attempt to make up for its poor Speed, I think Doublade does have enough going for it to be A-. It's a great counter to most Fighting-types, has great physical bulk, and is a reliable spinblocker for many teams.
Escavalier: I don't really know how many times I need to bring this up, but with so many things having to run Fire-type moves just to keep Escavalier from getting a switch-in on them, I don't see a reason to move this down. Yes, I know that stuff like Raikou, Kyurem, and Venomoth have left the tier and it was a great answer to them, but that doesn't take enough away from it for it not to be S rank imo. Ok, it needs Wish support to fully function? Oh, is that right? Aromatisse is a Wish user and she's a solid Pokemon in general? How convenient. Oh, it has a 4x weakness to Fire? Well, I guess I'll use a bulky Water-type. Oh, there's Slowking, and Alomomola too. The latter even has Wish if I can't find room for Aromatisse. What's that? Escavalier has terrible Speed. Oh, would you look at that. Slowking and Aromatisse can set up Trick Room to fix this. That's cool.
Fact of the matter is, Escavalier is still a very easy Pokemon to build a team around thanks to the fact it needs little in the way of support. Wish support is covered by two of the better Pokemon in the tier (Momo and Aroma) with both having solid defensive synergy with Esca while you can fix the terrible Speed with Trick Room, which Slowking and Aroma provide. This, combined with the fact that this is the main reason many Pokemon run Fire-type coverage moves should keep Esca at S rank imo.
Braviary: I understand that Jolteon coming down really takes away from the Scarf set, but to be perfectly honest here, the Scarf set wasn't Braviary's best set before Jolteon dropped imo. In fact, I found the Choice Band set to be the hardest to switch into. CB Braviary is a fantastic addition to Sticky Web teams as it benefits from the Speed lowering effect Web has while also punishing Defog severely. Although SubBU isn't the best sweeping set in the world, it's still a thing and can reliably set up on some of its would-be counters, such as Registeel and Gligar thanks to its ability to make 101 HP Subs and be immune to EQ. And if you really want to change up moves, you could just try LO Roost + 3 Attacks. May die a bit faster due to LO recoil, but the ability to run Roost and switch moves can help with this. Sure, Jolteon throws a wrench in the Scarf set, but Braviary was nominated for B+ for other reasons, and those reasons are still valid now with Jolteon in the tier.
Shiftry: Best offensive Defogger in the tier. It has a pretty neat offensive typing and really benefits from the Steel nerf in XY as they don't wall its STAB combination anymore. Sure, it has issues with some top threats (Virizion, Cobalion, Escavalier, etc.) but it's about the only Defog user that can be considered for an offensive team due to its offensive presence, and that niche is undeniable imo. It would be B/B+ material were it not for its inability to handle some key top threats, but it's niche as an offensive Defogger and ability to revenge kill faster, frailer sweepers with Sucker Punch on top of this is enough to warrant a spot in B- imo.
Doublade: While I haven't used this thing much myself, I have seen it in action a fair bit. I have to say that Doublade is a pretty solid Pokemon right now. It's a great switch-in to just about every Fighting-type in the tier (useful as 4 of them are in A ranks) and unlike most Steel-types, doesn't provide a free switch-in for Delphox. When considering spinblockers, Cofagrigus and Doublade should be the first two that come to mind, depending on what you're looking for. Thanks to Eviolite-boosted bulk, a solid base 110 Attack, the ability to boost that Attack with SD, and access to Shadow Sneak to attempt to make up for its poor Speed, I think Doublade does have enough going for it to be A-. It's a great counter to most Fighting-types, has great physical bulk, and is a reliable spinblocker for many teams.
Escavalier: I don't really know how many times I need to bring this up, but with so many things having to run Fire-type moves just to keep Escavalier from getting a switch-in on them, I don't see a reason to move this down. Yes, I know that stuff like Raikou, Kyurem, and Venomoth have left the tier and it was a great answer to them, but that doesn't take enough away from it for it not to be S rank imo. Ok, it needs Wish support to fully function? Oh, is that right? Aromatisse is a Wish user and she's a solid Pokemon in general? How convenient. Oh, it has a 4x weakness to Fire? Well, I guess I'll use a bulky Water-type. Oh, there's Slowking, and Alomomola too. The latter even has Wish if I can't find room for Aromatisse. What's that? Escavalier has terrible Speed. Oh, would you look at that. Slowking and Aromatisse can set up Trick Room to fix this. That's cool.
Fact of the matter is, Escavalier is still a very easy Pokemon to build a team around thanks to the fact it needs little in the way of support. Wish support is covered by two of the better Pokemon in the tier (Momo and Aroma) with both having solid defensive synergy with Esca while you can fix the terrible Speed with Trick Room, which Slowking and Aroma provide. This, combined with the fact that this is the main reason many Pokemon run Fire-type coverage moves should keep Esca at S rank imo.
is esca rlly s rank? I mean it checks (emphasis on check there, v ez to wear down) some major threats like reuniclus, a lot of the top mons don't rlly care about esca. Delphox just kills you, zoro carries flamethrower, rhyperior can take iron head quite easily and deal damage with eq so that you can't check anything anymore, hitmonlee kills you etc. etc. I mean, reuniclus can be very difficult to deal with outside of esca and esca can be threatening but to me it seems like the meta has become anti-esca somewhat in that the majority of the major threats atm can generally beat esca quite easily, or at least don't let it in for free.
Maybe I'm missing smthing here idk, but it seems like esca is easy to wear down and most of the big offensive threats can bust through it anyway (bar reuniclus). Countering reuniclus and checking lots of theats is obviously still very good, but idk if esca is still an absolute top mon at the moment.
Also, I think that shuckle should be moved somewhere in a. Sticky web is, while stupidly matchup reliant, incredibly easy to use and can win games so easily. One of the best hyper offense playstyles in the meta rn, and shuckle is by far the best setter and should prolly be somewhere in A because of that.
edit: not entirely sure on whether lee is an s rank mon, but its a v interesting proposition. Lee has always been one of the scariest mons to switch into (especially with webs;;;) and mach punch / sucker punch is nice priority. Its v frail and reliant on hjk but yeah I could see lee in s just because its so diffcult to deal with and is arguably the biggest offensive threat in the metagame.
Maybe I'm missing smthing here idk, but it seems like esca is easy to wear down and most of the big offensive threats can bust through it anyway (bar reuniclus). Countering reuniclus and checking lots of theats is obviously still very good, but idk if esca is still an absolute top mon at the moment.
Also, I think that shuckle should be moved somewhere in a. Sticky web is, while stupidly matchup reliant, incredibly easy to use and can win games so easily. One of the best hyper offense playstyles in the meta rn, and shuckle is by far the best setter and should prolly be somewhere in A because of that.
edit: not entirely sure on whether lee is an s rank mon, but its a v interesting proposition. Lee has always been one of the scariest mons to switch into (especially with webs;;;) and mach punch / sucker punch is nice priority. Its v frail and reliant on hjk but yeah I could see lee in s just because its so diffcult to deal with and is arguably the biggest offensive threat in the metagame.
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I want to throw some controversy here. I consider an insult for Hitmonlee being on A+, so I suggest moving him to S-Rank. Let's face it, Lee is one of, if not the most threatenning Pokemon in RU. Fighting is a great STAB to have in RU even though a lot of Pokemon either resist or are immune to it, and Reckless High Jump Kick is a stupid nuke. For Ghosts and Psychics (and some Eviolite walls) it has Knock Off. Hitmonlee is without a doubt the best offensive Rapid Spinner in the entire tier, being almost a staple on most Sticky Web and Spike-stacking teams, not only as a supporter with Spin but also as an efficient abuser of both. Hitmonlee is not good as a spinner, since you can throw some coverage instead, be Poison Jab for Fairies, Stone Edge for Flyings, EQ for Poisons or simply be like me and DOUBLE-EDGE TO 2HKO FUCKING 252/252+ DEF AROMATISSE AND ALMOST EVERYTHING ELSE THAT IS SUPPOSED TO WALL IT (Hitmonlee will die very fast, though). Reckless is not the only way to play with it, as the Unburden sets, while not as terrifying at first, are still powerul if used correctly, such as the Reversal set and the WP. Hitmonlee's shortcomings are its relative frailty and it's not very fast speed tier (although it has Mach Punch and Sucker Punch), but who cares since it can deal a fatal blow on everything! Its shortcomings are very few, but its teammates can deal with them easily, and Bruce Lee is so easy to fit on most teams it's ridiculous. Hitmonlee is also the reason all teams are weak to Fite
Also agreeing with moving Escavalier down to A+ for the reasons mallpal and Silvershadow234 pointed out
Also agreeing with moving Escavalier down to A+ for the reasons mallpal and Silvershadow234 pointed out
I would hardly provide fire type coverage being common as an argument in favor of Esca's viability. If anything, this shows how the metagame is adapting to him to justify dropping him.
I would like to see Weezing being moved to a higher rank.
So Weezing is a seriously underrated Pokemon in RU. Weezing is really good right now because it can outright counter some of the most dangerous Pokemon's in the tier with it's great defense stat. Hitmonlee, Rhyperior, Escavelier ( After rocks Choice Band iron head can 2 hit KO though ), Cobalion, physical Sharpedo and Durant are just some of the the Pokemon it can counter. Weezing generally walls almost every physical attacker without too much effort which makes it good to use. Will-O-Wisp helps Weezing in this and burns will make it even more of a pain in the butt. Weezing is a general good Pokemon for spreading burns with it's great defenses and often at least one opposing Pokemon will get burned. Weezing can also switch in on physical attackers with ease thanks to it's Poison typing which grants it useful resistances like Bug and Fighting and Levitate which turns a weakness into an immunity. On all the Pokemon mentioned above Weezing can switch in on them quite easily and burn them making them useless if they don't have a cleric on their team. Aside from Will-O-Wisp Weezing also has quite a few other useful moves like Haze, Memento, Toxic Spikes, Taunt and even Sunny Day and Rain Dance if you wanna have that. These moves aren't always the most important ones but they all have their uses. As for offensive moves Weezing honestly doesn't need more than Sludge Bomb and Flamethrower / Fire Blast but there is always the option of using moves like Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball if you want.
Weezing however does have a few downsides though and while they are not that much compared to it's positive traits these are still some things to note. The biggest problem is that Weezing doesn't have a reliable recovery. Weezing his main recovery is Pain Split which isn't very reliable to gain health. Due to this if you use Weezing you will probably want a cleric like Aromatisse and Alomomomomomola. These Pokemon are really good which makes it a bit less off a problem but still a big problem nonetheless. The second problem with Weezing is that, while it's defense is fantastic, it's special defense is mediocre at best. Any special move will usually do a good chunk to it and without reliable recovery it isn't very good against most special attackers. However this again can be solved by a specially bulky teammate. Not like Weezing should really be switching or staying in on special attackers though as it's typing is much better for walling physical attackers.
However even with those flaws weezing is still a very good Pokemon and it should honestly be B- in my opinion. In short the stuff it can wall is amazing, it has useful support moves and it's a good fit on stall teams due to that. Weezing isn't as bad as the other Pokemon like Accelgor and Chatot and it doesn't really fit into C rank.
So Weezing is a seriously underrated Pokemon in RU. Weezing is really good right now because it can outright counter some of the most dangerous Pokemon's in the tier with it's great defense stat. Hitmonlee, Rhyperior, Escavelier ( After rocks Choice Band iron head can 2 hit KO though ), Cobalion, physical Sharpedo and Durant are just some of the the Pokemon it can counter. Weezing generally walls almost every physical attacker without too much effort which makes it good to use. Will-O-Wisp helps Weezing in this and burns will make it even more of a pain in the butt. Weezing is a general good Pokemon for spreading burns with it's great defenses and often at least one opposing Pokemon will get burned. Weezing can also switch in on physical attackers with ease thanks to it's Poison typing which grants it useful resistances like Bug and Fighting and Levitate which turns a weakness into an immunity. On all the Pokemon mentioned above Weezing can switch in on them quite easily and burn them making them useless if they don't have a cleric on their team. Aside from Will-O-Wisp Weezing also has quite a few other useful moves like Haze, Memento, Toxic Spikes, Taunt and even Sunny Day and Rain Dance if you wanna have that. These moves aren't always the most important ones but they all have their uses. As for offensive moves Weezing honestly doesn't need more than Sludge Bomb and Flamethrower / Fire Blast but there is always the option of using moves like Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball if you want.
Weezing however does have a few downsides though and while they are not that much compared to it's positive traits these are still some things to note. The biggest problem is that Weezing doesn't have a reliable recovery. Weezing his main recovery is Pain Split which isn't very reliable to gain health. Due to this if you use Weezing you will probably want a cleric like Aromatisse and Alomomomomomola. These Pokemon are really good which makes it a bit less off a problem but still a big problem nonetheless. The second problem with Weezing is that, while it's defense is fantastic, it's special defense is mediocre at best. Any special move will usually do a good chunk to it and without reliable recovery it isn't very good against most special attackers. However this again can be solved by a specially bulky teammate. Not like Weezing should really be switching or staying in on special attackers though as it's typing is much better for walling physical attackers.
However even with those flaws weezing is still a very good Pokemon and it should honestly be B- in my opinion. In short the stuff it can wall is amazing, it has useful support moves and it's a good fit on stall teams due to that. Weezing isn't as bad as the other Pokemon like Accelgor and Chatot and it doesn't really fit into C rank.
Agreeing with Shiftry moving up to B- (even though i said this a while ago but w/e), and Esca moving down to A+. Weezing though, I think its fine in C rank. It's really underwhelming tbh. Yes, while it's physical bulk is impressive, it's special bulk is mediocre, it has very little offensive presence, and no reliable recovery. The fact that there Are lots of other physical walls to choose from in the tier doesn't help it's case either. It's mostly outclassed by many of them, such as Alomomola, Cresselia, Tangrowth, Registeel, and Bronzong, to name a few. The only real niches it has over these mons are that it is probably the best Hitmonlee counter of all of them, Wil-o-wisp, and some other very niche moves such haze, memento, and toxic spikes (Which isn't very good at all on it because it clashes with WOW burns)
Just gonna make a short post and say that i strongly support moving Shuckle up to somewhere in A rank. It might not have been the best Pokemon in and of itself in past generations, but its newfound move Sticky Web has completely turned the tables and made it into a deadly suicide lead, and one of the faces of RU Hyper Offense along with Froslass imo. Shuckle's great bulk lets it consistently get up Sticky Web+Stealth Rock, and considering how deadly the Speed drop can be, especially when RU has so many good abusers of the move such as Exploud, Hitmonlee, Zangoose, and Yanmega, Shuckle's consistency at setting up these webs can make or break a whole game. Also, although its offenses may suggest otherwise Shuckle is surprisingly hard to take advantage of thanks to Encore, and actually isn't dead weight outside of simply setting those hazards early game. with some good prediction skills Encore can be used to do things like lock opponents into set up moves, Defog, Stealth Rock or Rapid Spin, which doesn't just royally screw up the opponent's strategy, but potentially gives its teammates free switchins on the encore locked Pokemon, free to rip open big holes in their team. Infestation's partial trapping ability really helps Shuckle do this as well.
I totally agree with Molk, Shuckle doesn't really do much on its own, but it has a unique support move in the form of Sticky Web. Shuckle is one of the best Sticky Web users in the game and the best in RU (Masquerain and Leaanny always need focus sash) and he is guarantee to set it up thanks to his abominal defenses (you don't even need Sturdy imo) he also has rocks who give it yet another niche over things like Leavanny and Masquerain.
Shuckle also has Encore which makes sure that he doesn't become set up bait. On the last slot I run knock off since removing leftovers or assault vest in early game is really helpful but other people go woth Toxic as early status can cripple spinners and defoggers like Hitmontop and Gligar for the rest of the match.
So I would recommend to move Shuckle to A- rank as it is the mother of HO and can support almost every wallbreaker in the game like Zangoose and Specs Yanmega.
Shuckle also has Encore which makes sure that he doesn't become set up bait. On the last slot I run knock off since removing leftovers or assault vest in early game is really helpful but other people go woth Toxic as early status can cripple spinners and defoggers like Hitmontop and Gligar for the rest of the match.
So I would recommend to move Shuckle to A- rank as it is the mother of HO and can support almost every wallbreaker in the game like Zangoose and Specs Yanmega.
Got bored and asked my secretary for some help for this post:
A/A-: This dog (?) is pretty similar to non CM Raikou during the round 0 metagame, except with 15 points extra Speed that let it outspeed things like Sceptile, Scarf Emboar, and Dugtrio that Raikou would simply get outsped and KO'd by. Subpass is a cool set too.Baton Pass should be used in all sets not only because it dodges Dugtrio Arena Trap but because it can't be stopped unless mighty Imprison BP Musharna, but thats too busy saving OU to be a threat. It also tbolt'd a Rhyperior get on its level http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-127680930
A+/A: this is still a really good mon but a lot of the important things it checked in the past rounds such as Kyurem, Venomoth, and Shaymin either BL, BL2, or UU now, meaning it isn't as jrp level important, and a lot of the mons that took their place either run Fire-type moves (they would run one even if the snail was not here) on their standard sets or really hurt if it tries to switch in.
BL2 THIS ONE SHOULD BE OBVIOUS
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: If you are using Abomasnow, it will be Mega 9 times out of 10.
A This thing is really good and I don't know why its still only B+ lol. Its pretty much a staple on hyper offense, and does its job as a Swords Dance sweeper and spinblocker excellently. Also, it beats pretty much any physical attacker without STAB EQ, Flare Blitz, or Knock Off 1v1, emphasis on STAB. If you are not using Banette,you should be using this guy (who is even better in some cases) and should be in the same rank as the doll nobody like before this gen at worst.
B: this thing is really held back by a combination of how frail it is, its 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, and the fact that RU has a lot of good flying and bug resists that find their way on most teams. It can work, but those things hold it back from being as high as B+. Also the only reason that it was moved up in the first place was because UU has it in A-
C+ the extra bulk Gourgeist-Super has here is about as helpful as the extra speed and lower hp that small gourgeist gets that lets it burn things such as Kabutops, Hitmonlee, the broken as fuck DRUDDIGON and other random things before they can get an attack off, and get more hp back from Leech Seed respectively, they should be placed in the same rank.
C+ recieves competition from Slowking as a bulky Water-type, Slowking beats pretty much the same things as Jellicent with the exception of Yanmega (and Yanmega can still win with specs Bug Buzz if you have hazards up 252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery) and has passive Recovery in Regenerator to back it up. Jellicent has some cool things like Will-O-Wisp (this one is obviously good) Taunt and a bug resist, but id still rather use Slowking 90% of the time because 1)they lose to pretty much the same shit 2)Slowking can just kill them with its pro coverage and Stab moves like Fire Blast (this means Escavalier) or Psyshock (Virizion/Fighting types) instead of hoping Will-O-Wisp hits. 3)Bug resist is not really helpful when only like Yanmega uses STAB bug moves not named U-Turn, and as seen above, Jellicent might still lose. The other potential bug stab users (Vivi and Durant) can just spam their secondary stab, one of their standard coverage moves or just set up on jelli 4) Taunt is cool for beating CM Reuniclus though, but there are better answers to that like Drapion.
B-/B
D This thing is really really awful lol, the defense looks good on paper, but the ice-type just fucks it over beyond belief, making it much harder for it to wall anything effectively and turning it into a spinner that's not just weak to Stealth Rock and vulnerable to all hazards, but one that struggles to get past some of the most common ghosts in the tier.
D/off the list: this thing is just bad
B-: This guy is a pretty underrated defensive mon and it actually has the ability to go toe to toe with some of the scariest Pokemon in the tier and win, including Rhyperior, Escavalier, Virizon, Cobalion, Durant, Hitmonlee, and really just messes with physical attackers in general. It has a good support movepool with cool things like Will-O-Wisp, Toxic Spikes, and Haze too, which lets it do its job that much better despite the 4MSS. C is pretty much insulting for any mon that is not hyper situational/ shit.
D: seriously, why am I using this over Rhyperior? The only reason I'd ever use this over Rhyp is if i really didnt want to risk getting rekt by 4x effective hidden powers, otherwise Rhyperior is flat out better lol. inb4 cinccino, there are one billion things that can take care of the fursona easier.
And supporting my boy Shuckle for a move to somewhere in the A ranks
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And supporting my boy Shuckle for a move to somewhere in the A ranks
I know that a while ago, I would have supported Escavalier's stay in S rank, but the metagame has finally adjusted/shifted against Escavalier enough that it should drop to A+ rank. This thing is still a massive bitch to face in RU, but for one thing, Firespam has slowly creeped it way into the metagame enough (I guess all the firespam from UU is hitting me) that Escavalier now has a substantially more difficult time staying in battle for an extended period of time without support, although imo it still doesn't need much of it. To a lesser extent, the tier shifts/banning of some 'mons that it was able to check previously have also put a dent into Escavalier's effectiveness. Finally, I don't believe that Escavalier is able to adjust back against those changes enough that it should keep its spot in S-rank.
Any thoughts on Articuno being ranked? 4x rocks weakness has always sucked balls on this thing, but freeze dry is a really nice addition to its rather paltry moveset and imo rocks are a little easier to spin/fog off the field this generation.
I completely support Exca dropping to A+. Yes, its still a threat but its not that hard to handle anymore, it used to be a staple on Offence, bilky offence and even semi-stall because it could check kyurem, shaymin and moth aswell as partially raikou. This thing was just soo good. But now that these things have been moved to UU/BL 2 its simply not as good anymore. Its still an awesome pokemon which should have checks/counters on every team but its simply not as good anymore.
Also move shuckle up to A-/A
Also move shuckle up to A-/A
I'm against the notion of dropping mah boy vivi and here's why
part of A-rank criteria is -"Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently."
This fits vivillion perfectly, as all it really needs to set up is a slow volt switch/u-turn, or an opposing mon that is slightly slower than it, or a trapper to remove rock/electric types.
It does it's job very well of being a quiver dance sweeper, being able to throw a mon to sleep with essentially a spore and a pretty accurate STAB 110 base power flying move, which even hits hard off of +1, not to mention what usually happens when vivillon snowballs out of control with it's (IMO) best set, SubQD.
Yes, it can't sweep everything, but significant portions seems to sum up what i t can sweep pretty much. This thing just rips bulky offense apart in half, espescially if rhyperior is gone. Does it have checks? yes. Does it have lackluster bulk and a 4x SR weakness? yes. but vivillion also synergizes well with a bunch of mons in this metagame, is relatively easy to setup, and very hard to stop once it has setup. It has a great accurate STAB move to use and abuse in hurricane, Vivillion rises to A- imo.
CM VIVILLION IS BEST VIVILLION THE NEW META HAS RISEN
part of A-rank criteria is -"Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently."
This fits vivillion perfectly, as all it really needs to set up is a slow volt switch/u-turn, or an opposing mon that is slightly slower than it, or a trapper to remove rock/electric types.
It does it's job very well of being a quiver dance sweeper, being able to throw a mon to sleep with essentially a spore and a pretty accurate STAB 110 base power flying move, which even hits hard off of +1, not to mention what usually happens when vivillon snowballs out of control with it's (IMO) best set, SubQD.
Yes, it can't sweep everything, but significant portions seems to sum up what i t can sweep pretty much. This thing just rips bulky offense apart in half, espescially if rhyperior is gone. Does it have checks? yes. Does it have lackluster bulk and a 4x SR weakness? yes. but vivillion also synergizes well with a bunch of mons in this metagame, is relatively easy to setup, and very hard to stop once it has setup. It has a great accurate STAB move to use and abuse in hurricane, Vivillion rises to A- imo.
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You do realize it is in B+ and not A- right now, right.
Agreeing for Shuckle for A like everyone else, Sticky Web just shuts some teams down completely.
Dropping in for a couple of more:
Hitmonlee: I've used this guy extensively, and I can definitely support this move. I understand that people don't like that he's frail and isn't the fastest thing in the world (sucks to be outsped by Moltres and Delphox) but there is next to nothing that can safely switch into him. A great Attack stat, 2 good abilities (Limber isn't useless per se, but compared to his other two...) and a movepool most Fighting-types not named Gallade would dream for all make Lee amazing. He's a fantastic offensive Rapid Spin user and he can still break walls in this role thanks to LO Reckless HJKs. If you're not up for the wallbreaking route, Unburden allows Lee to sweep quite effectively due to the huge boost in Speed and (often) Attack boost from the item he uses to activate Unburden. If you're using any kind of team that isn't defensive-minded, you should be considering Hitmonlee in some shape, form, or fashion. So long as you need offensive presence, this guy is probably a good choice. Lee for S rank.
Shuckle: Another Pokemon I've used quite extensively, and another one that I'm going to support moving up. Basically, if you're using Sticky Web without Shuckle, you're doing it all wrong. Most reliable Web user in the tier AND it has Stealth Rock to boot! Encore keeps it from being setup bait despite the pissy offensive stats while Toxic and Infestation provide chip damage. I don't find Knock Off to be super useful on Shuckle since you're probably using something like Hitmonlee or Zoroark with it and they rely on Knock Off for damage, but it's an option I guess. Oh, and it doesn't need to run Sturdy. It's so damn bulky anyway, so may as well use Contrary and troll the hell out of opposing Defog users. Definitely deserves A-, but I wouldn't be opposed to Shuckle getting A rank.
Jolteon: This is obviously a Pokemon we need to rank for the next update. I think Jolteon fits well in A-, maaaaybe A. Jolteon competes a lot with Heliolisk and the choice generally comes down to Speed vs. coverage. Jolteon has more Speed, but at the cost of coverage. Both are solid Pokemon, and I think A- suits Jolteon marginally better than A. Like with Shuckle, I wouldn't be against Jolteon going to A if enough people support that.
Avalugg: Going to have to agree on a move down to D. Even then, I can't really find a reason to use it over Hitmontop, Hitmonlee, or Kabutops. I truly think even Claydol is better than this thing since it actually has some notable resistances / immunities to help it survive...
Weezing: TROP said p. much everything I would have said about this one. One of the very few true checks to most Fighting-types in the tier (Gallade fucks it, but w/e, it can take some hits from Lee) Needs to be at least C+, prolly even B-.
Hitmonlee: I've used this guy extensively, and I can definitely support this move. I understand that people don't like that he's frail and isn't the fastest thing in the world (sucks to be outsped by Moltres and Delphox) but there is next to nothing that can safely switch into him. A great Attack stat, 2 good abilities (Limber isn't useless per se, but compared to his other two...) and a movepool most Fighting-types not named Gallade would dream for all make Lee amazing. He's a fantastic offensive Rapid Spin user and he can still break walls in this role thanks to LO Reckless HJKs. If you're not up for the wallbreaking route, Unburden allows Lee to sweep quite effectively due to the huge boost in Speed and (often) Attack boost from the item he uses to activate Unburden. If you're using any kind of team that isn't defensive-minded, you should be considering Hitmonlee in some shape, form, or fashion. So long as you need offensive presence, this guy is probably a good choice. Lee for S rank.
Shuckle: Another Pokemon I've used quite extensively, and another one that I'm going to support moving up. Basically, if you're using Sticky Web without Shuckle, you're doing it all wrong. Most reliable Web user in the tier AND it has Stealth Rock to boot! Encore keeps it from being setup bait despite the pissy offensive stats while Toxic and Infestation provide chip damage. I don't find Knock Off to be super useful on Shuckle since you're probably using something like Hitmonlee or Zoroark with it and they rely on Knock Off for damage, but it's an option I guess. Oh, and it doesn't need to run Sturdy. It's so damn bulky anyway, so may as well use Contrary and troll the hell out of opposing Defog users. Definitely deserves A-, but I wouldn't be opposed to Shuckle getting A rank.
Jolteon: This is obviously a Pokemon we need to rank for the next update. I think Jolteon fits well in A-, maaaaybe A. Jolteon competes a lot with Heliolisk and the choice generally comes down to Speed vs. coverage. Jolteon has more Speed, but at the cost of coverage. Both are solid Pokemon, and I think A- suits Jolteon marginally better than A. Like with Shuckle, I wouldn't be against Jolteon going to A if enough people support that.
Avalugg: Going to have to agree on a move down to D. Even then, I can't really find a reason to use it over Hitmontop, Hitmonlee, or Kabutops. I truly think even Claydol is better than this thing since it actually has some notable resistances / immunities to help it survive...
Weezing: TROP said p. much everything I would have said about this one. One of the very few true checks to most Fighting-types in the tier (Gallade fucks it, but w/e, it can take some hits from Lee) Needs to be at least C+, prolly even B-.
Fletchinder is better than C+ rank imo and should be moved up to B-. It's a very effective revenge killer that is very capable of taking out alot of the tiers most used and most powerful Pokemon; it also performs well late game and can easily pick off the opponents weakened Pokemon. These feats are all possible because of its wonderful ability Gale Wings (we all should know what it does). The description of the average B-ranked Pokemon fits Fletchinder to a tee. "Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche." SmogBird has an offensive niche that it can fulfill in 9 out of 10 games. It can also take a few hits with the proper hp investment and also having priority has become very important in XY since there's been such a huge power creep, luckily Fletchinder has enough to go around.
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Agreeing with Hitmonlee for S-rank. Its able to break down walls really well just by how strong coverage Knock Off is alongside Reckless HJK. It guarantees a spin against so many things, and the few ghosts that it doesn't, Exploud shreks.
Speaking of which, Exploud needs to go up to at least A-. If it gets in on something slower, it's going to leave a brutal mark, and many of the Rock and Steel-types that wall it can be fodder to Dugtrio, or get massively torn apart by Hitmonlee.
Speaking of which, Exploud needs to go up to at least A-. If it gets in on something slower, it's going to leave a brutal mark, and many of the Rock and Steel-types that wall it can be fodder to Dugtrio, or get massively torn apart by Hitmonlee.
These two posts summarize well why Hitmonlee should be S rank. In addition to being a staple on two team archetypes it is a terrifying wallbreaker AND a reliable Rapid Spinner. Also it has access to relatively strong priority to deal with faster threats such as Zoroark, Cinccino and Jolteon (Spikes can put it in range quite easily) It is the reason why Doublade has risen in usage and its Unburden set easily destroys most Sticky Web teams.
Also i agree on Escavalier in A+. In the last month the meta has adapted to it (Fire Blast being standard or almost standard on Slowking, Mixed Zoroark, stuff that destroys it like Hitmonlee having a lot of usage and Rhyperior's popularity) and hazards are so easy to stack making Escavalier simply not that effective in walling special attackers through the game.
Shuckle should also be A- AT LEAST for the obvious reasons that were pointed out here and in the NP thread
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Ok here are opinions:
Doublade for A. Most reliable spinblocker bar none and its physical bulk is unholy, combine that with a great Attack stat, one of the best defensive typings out there and priority and you've got yourself something that is not only a spinblocker, but a sweeper and a tank too. What's even cooler is that it is A rank for me because of its standard SD set alone, but I bet there are other sets that might also work by catching the opponent off-guard. This mon definitely is better than A- mons like Sceptile (drop this imo) and is a staple on some of the most dangerous teams around (Sticky Web HO, Spikes HO). Only issue is lackluster special bulk, reliance on Sneak (not that big of a deal imo) and a vulnerability to Knock Off, although as has been mentioned it has Cofagrigus-like physical bulk after Knock Off so who cares.
Shuckle for A. Defining one of the best playstyles in the tier definitely deserves A rank, especially when you're as bulky as Shuckle. Thanks to Encore and Infestation it isn't total setup fodder anymore either, rlly cool mon move way up imo
Escavalier down to A+. Meta has become more hostile to it imo, it's still really threatening but it's hard to switch in with all the Fire types and physical wallbreakers around, on top of that many common leads beat him 1vs1 ez pz so lead AV Esca isn't the best of ideas nowadays. It was S rank when it had to check the biggest offensive threats of the meta (Shaymin and Raikou), but nowadays I feel like it's not as threatening anymore. Still strong af though.
Jolteon for A-. Basically what other people said, it's a faster Heliolisk, making it better at cleaning, but it also lacks Heliolisk's coverage, making the choice between the two a tossup. I also feel like it never hits quite as hard as I expect Oo. Still a threatening cleaner though, good mon.
Hitmonlee for S. Hard to get in, but once it gets in it's ogre for something on yr opponent's team. I feel like every time I don't include Lee on an HO team I am missing out and include it later on, it puts in so much work just by hitting hard as fuck. Having Rapid Spin comes as a nice bonus. Gets extra cred for having a strong Mach Punch which is so fkn useful for RKing Pedoshark and just picking off threats in general. In addition it can run an Unburden set altho I haven't really used that this gen. Lee is a meta-definng offensive threat though so definitely worthy of S.
Fletchinder for B-. Meta is pretty fuckin offensive rn so having prio Acro is solid gold atm, let it set up and it can just plow thru teams :] Of course being some of the frailest shit in the tier even with max HP investment hurts so it shouldn't go much higher than B- (keyword: much), but it wrecks surprisingly hard so yea, use it. NOW YOU LOSE 4 based bird god. Shit's definitely better than niche shit like Poliwrath and Miltank.
Druddigon for S+++ broken mon
Doublade for A. Most reliable spinblocker bar none and its physical bulk is unholy, combine that with a great Attack stat, one of the best defensive typings out there and priority and you've got yourself something that is not only a spinblocker, but a sweeper and a tank too. What's even cooler is that it is A rank for me because of its standard SD set alone, but I bet there are other sets that might also work by catching the opponent off-guard. This mon definitely is better than A- mons like Sceptile (drop this imo) and is a staple on some of the most dangerous teams around (Sticky Web HO, Spikes HO). Only issue is lackluster special bulk, reliance on Sneak (not that big of a deal imo) and a vulnerability to Knock Off, although as has been mentioned it has Cofagrigus-like physical bulk after Knock Off so who cares.
Shuckle for A. Defining one of the best playstyles in the tier definitely deserves A rank, especially when you're as bulky as Shuckle. Thanks to Encore and Infestation it isn't total setup fodder anymore either, rlly cool mon move way up imo
Escavalier down to A+. Meta has become more hostile to it imo, it's still really threatening but it's hard to switch in with all the Fire types and physical wallbreakers around, on top of that many common leads beat him 1vs1 ez pz so lead AV Esca isn't the best of ideas nowadays. It was S rank when it had to check the biggest offensive threats of the meta (Shaymin and Raikou), but nowadays I feel like it's not as threatening anymore. Still strong af though.
Jolteon for A-. Basically what other people said, it's a faster Heliolisk, making it better at cleaning, but it also lacks Heliolisk's coverage, making the choice between the two a tossup. I also feel like it never hits quite as hard as I expect Oo. Still a threatening cleaner though, good mon.
Hitmonlee for S. Hard to get in, but once it gets in it's ogre for something on yr opponent's team. I feel like every time I don't include Lee on an HO team I am missing out and include it later on, it puts in so much work just by hitting hard as fuck. Having Rapid Spin comes as a nice bonus. Gets extra cred for having a strong Mach Punch which is so fkn useful for RKing Pedoshark and just picking off threats in general. In addition it can run an Unburden set altho I haven't really used that this gen. Lee is a meta-definng offensive threat though so definitely worthy of S.
Fletchinder for B-. Meta is pretty fuckin offensive rn so having prio Acro is solid gold atm, let it set up and it can just plow thru teams :] Of course being some of the frailest shit in the tier even with max HP investment hurts so it shouldn't go much higher than B- (keyword: much), but it wrecks surprisingly hard so yea, use it. NOW YOU LOSE 4 based bird god. Shit's definitely better than niche shit like Poliwrath and Miltank.
Druddigon for S+++ broken mon
I dont agree to drop certain mons like Dugtrio or Vivillon, prolly Bronzong neither.
Dugtrio has an unique niche and is not like A rank or something like that.
Vivillon is great, sweeps everything unless you're a fat steel.
The only ones at higher ranks which I should drop are Sceptile, Heliolisk and Slurpuff; rest are fine for now imo
Dugtrio has an unique niche and is not like A rank or something like that.
Vivillon is great, sweeps everything unless you're a fat steel.
The only ones at higher ranks which I should drop are Sceptile, Heliolisk and Slurpuff; rest are fine for now imo
What is holding Mightyena over D Rank?
All I can see is non-existing defenses even with intiminate and barely average speed.
All I can see is non-existing defenses even with intiminate and barely average speed.
Believe it or not Mightyena has actually gone from completely unusable to actually *ok* in the lower tiers over the past two generations, i still wouldn't suggest in on a serious team, but if you really want to use it/give it the proper support it *can* work. Mightyena recieved the ability Moxie in gen 5, which boosts its attack after every KO that it scores. This means that it can actually go on little minisweeps with the combination of Moxie and its somewhat powerful Sucker Punch, possibly creating some of the most embarrassing sweeps that you've ever seen in the process. Still though, in gen 5 Moxie Mightyena was still too flawed to be really viable... However in gen 6, the Steel-type got nerfed, which means that Mightyena can hit the Pokemon that once walled its Dark-type STAB and most of its coverage for neutral damage, and it got Play Rough as an egg move, which recieves pretty much perfect coverage with Mightyena's aforementioned Dark-type STAB and hits various Fighting-types in the tier such as Virizion super effectively. Consider this and that Mightyena's two main competitors as a Sucker Punch user in Honchkrow and Absol (Zoroark fills this role to an extent now though) are currently safely locked up in UU, and you actually have a somewhat *ok* mon.
As i said, still not something i'd really use on a serious team, but the traits i listed above make it usable enough in the tier to justify a rank, and i'd honestly say going off of D rank its better than Claydol at least.
Moxie along with decent attack and Sucker Punch give it a niche as a late game sweeper. Zoroark is faster and has access to Knock Off but the snowball sweeping capabilities and access to Play Rouch give it a reason to use it.
Edit: what molk said oO
Nominating Cradily to C rank due to being a god-tier counter to Exploud that isn't weak to Duggy as well as being a good check to Moltres and Jolteon and a semi-decent check to Heliolisk and Delphox that has the ability to put up Stealth Rock. Rock-type that doesn't fear Rhyperior? Yes please. Also RELIABLE MOTHERFUCKING RECOVERY. Pls love me Molk
EDIT: also requesting Doublade to A- rank as its pretty much the best spinblocker in the tier and is actually a scary end game sweeper due to its balk
EDIT: also requesting Doublade to A- rank as its pretty much the best spinblocker in the tier and is actually a scary end game sweeper due to its balk
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