Resource RU Viability Ranking

[Molk]

Slight typo there, but I've got more of my own comments to come. Accidentally pressed the submit button so I'll elaborate on what I want to say soon...

Edit:

Nominating Sawk for C Rank. 125 Base Attack and 85 Speed coupled with great abilities and a bunch of fantastic moves such as Close Combat, Knock Off, Earthquake, etc. This thing can run a Choice Band set to effectively wallbreak, or it can utilize a Scarf to revenge kill stuff like Specs Delphox or pick off any weakened opponents. However, as much potential as Sawk may have, it is for the most part eclipsed by Hitmonlee, as it possesses the ability to more effectively revenge kill/clean teams with an activated Unburden while keeping intact its equally dangerous physical presence on the field, which is why Sawk shouldn't be ranked any higher than a C.

There's also a lot of things I believe should definitely move up, but since this metagame hasn't completely settled yet, I'll definitely wait out on that.

ehhhhh....

Sawk might seem like a decent Pokemon, but i think theres one big problem with it that prevents it from being ranked even in C that you've already covered to an extent: competition with other Fighting-types. As you already mentioned, Hitmonlee gives sawk quite a bit of competition as a Pokemon, being slightly faster, arguably pulling off reversal better, having access to priority in Mach Punch, AND hitting significantly harder thanks to the extra BP in reckless. But theres another pokemon that stands in Sawk's way: Gallade. Gallade gets literally every single important offensive coverage move that sawk gets, along with (weak) priority in Shadow Sneak, a Psychic-STAB in Zen Headbutt, Drain Punch, and a boosting move in Swords Dance to make it hit even harder, all coming off of the exact same attack stat as Sawk. Mold Breaker might seem like an advantage, but honestly i don't think Mold Breaker is a very useful ability in RU atm. All the Pokemon with Sturdy can probably take a hit from Sawk anyway (iirc it couldn't OHKO Steelix with CC last gen sadly), and all the Pokemon with levitate either don't care about a Mold Breaker EQ anyway, or die even faster to a coverage move such as Knock Off. To be honest, unless i really wanted a blue pokemon on my team, i'd never, ever use Sawk over Gallade.

TL;DR: unless 5 points of Speed and a dark resist are extremely important to you for whatever reason, theres no reason to use Sawk over Gallade at all, and this competition from it and the previously mentioned Hitmonlee makes it hard to justifiably rank it imo

 

[The Lucky Absol]

EonX- I did forget swords dance, I don't know how since I ran that set a while ago, but I did. To add a comment though, if Gallade survives the psyshock, Delphox has to worry about knock off while Venomoth has to worry about psycho cut. Moltres though is one of the relatively few pokemon in the tier that gives Gallade a bad headache.
Additionally, your comment was one of the first times I have ever seen somebody suggest fire punch to deal with Escavalier, I've run fire punch before and have had success with it, surprised I don't see it more often.

Anyways, for a few more suggestions. Durant for A-/A. Hustle+Hone claws leads for a stupid powerful sweeper. Base 108 speed leaves it at an interesting speed tier, outspeeding Moltres, Delphox, and a few other pokemon that would be able to put a stop to it. Bug/Steel/Rock is surprisingly good coverage for it as well.

I also suggest Smeargle for B/B+ rank. While It sure is nice to have any boosting or hazard move you want, How successful you are depends on the pokemon you are up against, it is completely situational. It is good but not A- rank good.

Also, Chatot should be in B-. It is faster and has a more powerful Boomburst than Exploud. Although it lacks scrappy, the bulk, and the coverage Exploud has, that doesn't mean it is deserving of a C rank. The two things that set it apart from Exploud are chatter and nasty plot. The former because of how it is a guaranteed confusion, the latter because of how it takes Chatot's special attack up to sky high levels.

[Edit] Durant has base 109 speed. Thanks TROP.

 

[TROP]

I actually think Sawk should be ranked as E to tell people to stop using it when it is outclassed at absolutely everything it can do (read molk post for more details). I doubt that would help because Sawk is only used because a youtuber uses it but this thing should recieve close to 0 usage and not more than actually viable things like Gourgeist-Small (I actually think this should be B-, might give reasons later) and Zangoose.


And super minor thing, but change Banette to Banette (Mega). It should be obvious why (Banette is shitty as fuck without its mega stone).

 

[dingbat]

ehhhhh....

Sawk might seem like a decent Pokemon, but i think theres one big problem with it that prevents it from being ranked even in C that you've already covered to an extent: competition with other Fighting-types. As you already mentioned, Hitmonlee gives sawk quite a bit of competition as a Pokemon, being slightly faster, arguably pulling off reversal better, having access to priority in Mach Punch, AND hitting significantly harder thanks to the extra BP in reckless. But theres another pokemon that stands in Sawk's way: Gallade. Gallade gets literally every single important offensive coverage move that sawk gets, along with (weak) priority in Shadow Sneak, a Psychic-STAB in Zen Headbutt, Drain Punch, and a boosting move in Swords Dance to make it hit even harder, all coming off of the exact same attack stat as Sawk. Mold Breaker might seem like an advantage, but honestly i don't think Mold Breaker is a very useful ability in RU atm. All the Pokemon with Sturdy can probably take a hit from Sawk anyway (iirc it couldn't OHKO Steelix with CC last gen sadly), and all the Pokemon with levitate either don't care about a Mold Breaker EQ anyway, or die even faster to a coverage move such as Knock Off. To be honest, unless i really wanted a blue pokemon on my team, i'd never, ever use Sawk over Gallade.

TL;DR: unless 5 points of Speed and a dark resist are extremely important to you for whatever reason, theres no reason to use Sawk over Gallade at all, and this competition from it and the previously mentioned Hitmonlee makes it hard to justifiably rank it imo

Ah, I totally missed out on Gallade as another fighting type that Sawk faces competition with. I don't think that the five extra points of speed matter that much, but now looking at the fact that Gallade is there, I definitely see your justification for Sawk having no rank because now I really see it as being the Machamp/Florges in OU, totally outclassed by its counterparts.

Although Sawk might have a slight niche over Gallade and Hitmonlee with Sturdy, in the end I don't think it's really any more relevant than Mold Breaker is so I won't consider any advantages of using Sawk over these two.

 

[dingbat]

I'll apologize for double posting here, but it's been 12 hours since I made my last post, so I think it's been long enough of a time gap there. Anyways, here comes another ranking possibility.

Archeops has very terrific 140/112/110 offensive stats and it definitely has moves to back up these stats, such as Stone Edge, Earthquake, Acrobatics (no flying gem hinders it a little), Knock Off, Heat Wave and U-turn. However, it has a really fucking terrible ability, Defeatist, that basically eats away half of Archeops' Attack and Special Attack stats (not its base stats, but its number stats after EVs and IVs) when it is at half health or below. And to add further to its struggles, it has measly 75/65/65 defenses, no priority moves, and is weak to Stealth Rocks, making it really easy to wear it down to Defeatist range. Yes, it has Roost to get itself to more than half health, but much of the tier can/will do enough damage to it that in the end, Roost is not a huge factor on this thing. I'd say this thing will most likely find itself in C-/D rank.

 

[The Lucky Absol]

dingbat I have used Archeops, and while it does have a god awful ability, I don't believe it should be ranked that low. The reason why is how it can be used as an effective late game sweeper with that fantastic speed. Additionally, the set I have been using for Archeops has utilized a power herb and sky attack as well as acrobatics to make up for the lack of flying gem. Sky attack does a detrimental amount of damage to anything that doesn't resist it. (On a side note, It might actually be better this generation because Cofagrigous is in this tier now, had a little fun when my Archeops got mummy earlier today) However, It shouldn't be anything higher than a C+ because it relies heavily on wish support to do any massive damage. It wrecks almost everything, you just have to know how to use it properly.

 

[dingbat]

dingbat I have used Archeops, and while it does have a god awful ability, I don't believe it should be ranked that low. The reason why is how it can be used as an effective late game sweeper with that fantastic speed. Additionally, the set I have been using for Archeops has utilized a power herb and sky attack as well as acrobatics to make up for the lack of flying gem. Sky attack does a detrimental amount of damage to anything that doesn't resist it. (On a side note, It might actually be better this generation because Cofagrigous is in this tier now, had a little fun when my Archeops got mummy earlier today) However, It shouldn't be anything higher than a C+ because it relies heavily on wish support to do any massive damage. It wrecks almost everything, you just have to know how to use it properly.

My suggestion for the C-/D was rather arbitrary, but I knew that Archeops had some certain niches in the RU metagame and that I needed a little extra input from others in order to paint any conclusions around this high-risk, high-reward 'mon. Around C rank sounds more appropriate now that I have read your input.

 

[MikeDawg]

I think that Aromatisse deserves a move to somewhere in the A ranks.

I have been using Aroma for quite a while now after replacing amoongus with it, and it has been doing wonders. Until I used it, I did not believe in how potent Wish support was. I feel as if a cleric is more useful in RU than any other tier with the emphasis on bulky offense. Battles will go on longer, and so scald burns and the like are much more likely and much more inhibitory (hint: escavalier). In this meta, Wish support is equally helpful. It is absurd how frequently aroma can get wishes off. I often pass 10+ times a game. It can handle nearly every fighting type in the tier, and can easily tank non-gunkshot druddigon. It loves taking on Zoroarks and other dark types as well.

Aromatisse has the ability to glue together any bulky offensive team, and I believe that it deserves a higher ranking as a result.

 

[DGpegasus]

I nominate Drapion for A-

Reason for is because of how well it does against a large part of the top threats. Drapion has some very nice bulk and only one weakness giving him already one niche. He also has lots of good offensive moves and support moves. You can basically Knock Off anything you see. The ones that are able to switch into Knock Off can usually be taunted afterwards and hit by a coverage move like Poison Jab or EQ. The main reason why he is so succesful with this is because his taunts are pretty fast. Without any speed investment he can taunt most bulky pokemon rendering them useless against Drapion for a few turns. It's very easy to switch into stuff considering how bulky he is and how good of a typing he has. Another thing I like about Drapion is how many sets you can run. You never know what to expect. Will it be a set-up sweeper or a hazard setter? Or maybe the taunt set? It's very fun to see people miss predict because they thought Drapion was running another set. This usually happens to bulky pokemon switching into Drapion thinking it's a set-up sweeper or something.

I hope I didn't miss anything about him, I tend to forget the most crucial things about a pokemon sometimes.

 

[MikeDawg]

I nominate Drapion for A-

Reason for is because of how well it does against a large part of the top threats. Drapion has some very nice bulk and only one weakness giving him already one niche. He also has lots of good offensive moves and support moves. You can basically Knock Off anything you see. The ones that are able to switch into Knock Off can usually be taunted afterwards and hit by a coverage move like Poison Jab or EQ. The main reason why he is so succesful with this is because his taunts are pretty fast. Without any speed investment he can taunt most bulky pokemon rendering them useless against Drapion for a few turns. It's very easy to switch into stuff considering how bulky he is and how good of a typing he has. Another thing I like about Drapion is how many sets you can run. You never know what to expect. Will it be a set-up sweeper or a hazard setter? Or maybe the taunt set? It's very fun to see people miss predict because they thought Drapion was running another set. This usually happens to bulky pokemon switching into Drapion thinking it's a set-up sweeper or something.

I hope I didn't miss anything about him, I tend to forget the most crucial things about a pokemon sometimes.

I got swept by accupressure drapion

The threat is real

Anyway, I feel like there is too much that completely stops drapion, though (rhyperior being the main one). I even use aromatisse as a solid drapion switchin (aromatisse for A). I think that it is lacking in both bulk and power, and so it is easily eclipsed. For that reason, I feel as if somewhere in the high B's is more appropriate

 

[DGpegasus]

I got swept by accupressure drapion

The threat is real

Anyway, I feel like there is too much that completely stops drapion, though (rhyperior being the main one). I even use aromatisse as a solid drapion switchin (aromatisse for A). I think that it is lacking in both bulk and power, and so it is easily eclipsed. For that reason, I feel as if somewhere in the high B's is more appropriate

Aromatisse and the likes are usually the one I can play around with the most with. Drapion outspeeds, Taunts and continues to Poison Jab/Knock Off. Of course when not running a set like this it can mean that you can't hit most bulky pokemon. though fast taunt is insanely good and should not be dropped from most sets. It gives Drapion a lot of free turns that he can achieve on his own (as described in the OP)

 

[EonX]

Covering some things here ~

Archeops: I haven't used it much yet, but with tough Steel-types such as Registeel and Bronzong being introduced to the tier, it has taken a fairly big hit in XY. I think C/C- is ok for it. While it has great mixed offenses, a terrible ability combined with two really solid answers to it (to add on to what was present in BW RU) really hurts it.

Aromatisse: Like MikeDawg, I had not used Aromatisse until very recently on the latest team I made. She is so much better than people give her credit for. (including myself before I used her!) Aroma has good mixed bulk, a fantastic defensive typing, and base 99 Special Attack can keep the likes of Gallade, Virizion, and others from trying to boost up to get past her. She's a fantastic member for Stall teams as she coveres BOTH Wish support and Cleric support in one slot. But she isn't relegated to just stall teams. Thanks to that base 99 Special Attack and great set of resistances, she's a solid glue mon for Balance and Bulky Offense teams. Her typing gels extremely well with the likes of Registeel, Druddigon, Escavalier, and Slowking. And, of course, she has a near guaranteed Trick Room thanks to Aroma Veil. While Aroma's inability to deal with Escavalier, Moltres, and Delphox hurts, the fact that many Druddigons run Gunk Shot or Iron Tail to lure out and eliminate Aromatisse should show just how potent of a defensive threat she is. Imo, I think she's solid at A- since she does give top threats like Registeel, Escavalier, and Delphox free turns, but has a lot of other things going for her (defensive typing, mixed bulk, support movepool, etc.)

Drapion: Idk, Drapion is just one of those Pokemon that I've always felt either wants more bulk or more power. While not exactly weak offensively, it really appreciates a boost to do serious damage. While no slouch defensively, Drapion really wishes its defense stats were swapped or balanced out a bit more due to its set of resistances. I think B+ is fine for Drapion. While it can create free turns for itself via Taunt, using the move only gives you two open slots for attacks (assuming Taunt + SD) and only one attack slot for a defensive set (again, assuming Taunt, TSpikes, and WW) which really restricts what Drapion can handle on its own.

 

[phantom]

up to S rank.

I've had this on my mind since we were creating the preliminary list and a certain someone has been disregarding my pleas (/me slaps dtc).

Anyway, Rhyperior is a phenomenal Pokemon in this metagame. It can do quite literally everything and fits on every team (except niche shit like rain offense or whatever). Physical wall, Special Wall, offensive Tank, heck even Rock Polish sweeper sets, it just does so much all so well. On top of which, Rhyperior fairs very well against the current S-rank, as it's one of the Pokemon capable of limiting Froslass to one layer and stopping Venomoth from Quiver Passing via Rock Blast. I mean yeah, Rhyperior has weaknesses sure, but the fact of that matter is that Solid Rock can help dilute them, to the point where it can survive STAB 3x effective hits when EVed correctly. I view Rhyperior a lot like Aeigslash in OU where it can run a shit ton of sets and works on nearly every single team. I find it ridiculous that a Pokemon this metagame defining is sitting in A+. It's also a lot like Escavalier in the sense that teams run random 4x SE moves to deal with it. I mean come on, fucking Grass Knot is standard on Zoroark because of this thing. It's just one of those Pokemon where you can put it on your team and you know it's always going to pull its weight no matter what. Its sheer power, bulk, versatility, and metagame defining characteristics cannot be ignored.

 

[Galladium]

Aromatisse and the likes are usually the one I can play around with the most with. Drapion outspeeds, Taunts and continues to Poison Jab/Knock Off. Of course when not running a set like this it can mean that you can't hit most bulky pokemon. though fast taunt is insanely good and should not be dropped from most sets. It gives Drapion a lot of free turns that he can achieve on his own (as described in the OP)

Aromatisse can't be Taunted. Also, Drapion is on of the few Pokemon in this tier that can use Evasion successfully with Acupressure. If that doesn't make it deserving of an A- rank at least, then I have no idea what will.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Acupressure Drapion is bad. I know it can 6-0 teams on the lower ladder if you're lucky but you're as likely to get a boost to your special attack as you are your evasion. It's just not good.

Drapion is good in B+.

 

[Oddish is the best]

I feel like Cryogonal should be ranked on here somewhere in the C+ B- range. It does a good job of either being a great special wall, or a fast offensive rapid spinner. Obviously the non existent physical bulk is a problem but its a pretty cool 'mon that I feel should at least be ranked.

Torterra to C+ B- - Torterra is a pretty cool pokemon that has really great physical bulk and attack sets at the cost of low special defense and speed. Not resisting water and a X4 ice weakness are annoying but Torterra walls quite a bit of the metagame (Physical attackers not named Escaviler) plus it has recovery in synthesis. It can also run an offensive rock polish set too and with solid attack can be an unexpected sweeper. The flaws unfortunately keep it down but I think it should at least be ranked.

 

[PK Gaming]

Virizion should be moved up to A rank. Its STABs are effective against the best walls in the tier (Slowking/Big Dumb Fish). It has a solid defensive typing that allows it to check a ton of prominent/semi prominent Pokemon (such as bulky Water-types, Rhyperior, Heliolisk, Rotom-G Zoroark, Sharpedo w/o ZHB). It doesn't have trouble setting up either and pairs up nicely with quite a few Pokemon, such as Emboar and Rhyperior.

To sum it up, it's an "all-around" Pokemon that can fit in many teams. Easy A.

 

[BurningFury101]

up to S rank.

I've had this on my mind since we were creating the preliminary list and a certain someone has been disregarding my pleas (/me slaps dtc).

Anyway, Rhyperior is a phenomenal Pokemon in this metagame. It can do quite literally everything and fits on every team (except niche shit like rain offense or whatever). Physical wall, Special Wall, offensive Tank, heck even Rock Polish sweeper sets, it just does so much all so well. On top of which, Rhyperior fairs very well against the current S-rank, as it's one of the Pokemon capable of limiting Froslass to one layer and stopping Venomoth from Quiver Passing via Rock Blast. I mean yeah, Rhyperior has weaknesses sure, but the fact of that matter is that Solid Rock can help dilute them, to the point where it can survive STAB 3x effective hits when EVed correctly. I view Rhyperior a lot like Aeigslash in OU where it can run a shit ton of sets and works on nearly every single team. I find it ridiculous that a Pokemon this metagame defining is sitting in A+. It's also a lot like Escavalier in the sense that teams run random 4x SE moves to deal with it. I mean come on, fucking Grass Knot is standard on Zoroark because of this thing. It's just one of those Pokemon where you can put it on your team and you know it's always going to pull its weight no matter what. Its sheer power, bulk, versatility, and metagame defining characteristics cannot be ignored.

This can be argued about, you did make amazing examples that are quite persuasive, yet Rhyperior's typing is a downfall. You mentioned Zoroark using Grass Knot to literally hit this monster, which although is again, a good example, you should also notify that it's typing is a downfall in that most Pokemon already run a powerful move for Rhyperior. Now, I'm not saying it's bad whatsoever, I have have used it before, and it's easy to say that this thing is capable of sitting on unprepared teams, but, Rhyperior has a whopping 6 weaknesses, two of which, are 4x effective, but it does have 5 resistances (One worth noting is Poison, which is 4x resists) and an immunity. Sadly though, two of these resistances are fairly rare, but still do count.

Another thing that weakens it greatly is that it's very hard to build around these weaknesses, as you usually will need two Pokemon to get around these terrible weaknesses. Sure, it has Solid Rock, but it doesn't really matter when it's special defence is quite low (Only it's HP saves it from powerful special attacks) and when both of it's 4x weaknesses, run rampant on the metagame and are seen commonly on every team (Some examples are Zoroark, Virizion, Sceptile, Delphox, Sharpedo, Slowking, Abomasnow, Amoonguss, Rotom-Mow, Tangrowth, Gorebyss, Yanmega [Although it gets fucking decimated by Rock Blast]). Something that Rhyperior has though is that almost any physical attack that isn't super-effective, even without much investment, Rhyperior can eat up. Here's some proof:
252+ Atk Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 109-129 (25.1 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Now, let's look at the definitions of both the Pokemon:

A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently.

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Here we already see that Rhyperior definitely needs support, or have some flaws. Of course, every Pokemon needs support, but Rhyperior, unlike a few of the S-Ranked Pokemon need more than one Pokemon to help it wall, or sweep a majority of the metagame. For these reasons I believe Rhyperior should stay in A+ Rank. Let the arguing, commence...

 

[phantom]

Here we already see that Rhyperior definitely needs support, or have some flaws.

Not gonna lie, I was expecting this kind of argument. The only flaw you listed is that it has weaknesses, which is a superficial argument in and of itself. Let's acknowledge for a second that Rhyperior has no 4x weaknesses due to the existence of Solid Rock or 2x weakness as an extension for that matter. Furthermore, many of the Pokemon you listed, while true can due an incredible amount of damage to it, none of them can switch in on it aside from say Virizion. It's a two-way streak in that sense. It really doesn't take all that much to compensate for its weaknesses at all. If your team is properly built, you should be able to handle them by default--that's a given. You argue that you have to go out of your way to support Rhyperior, but I disagree with that. Again, it's your team's responsibility to insure that it has proper synergy and accommodating Rhyperior just comes with the job if anything else. I like to view Rhyperior's viability in a broader sense, while yes it has weakness (how many Pokemon can claim not to?), I'd rather analyze it on how it impacts team building as a whole, its general performance, how well it can make up for its own flaws, and how easily it can fit on teams. When you explore these points in depth, it's easy to see why Rhyperior can be an S-rank threat. Now while I respect your opinion and I like the way you presented it, I can't come to an agreement here.

 

[BurningFury101]

Not gonna lie, I was expecting this kind of argument. The only flaw you listed is that it has weaknesses, which is a superficial argument in and of itself. Let's acknowledge for a second that Rhyperior has no 4x weaknesses due to the existence of Solid Rock or 2x weakness as an extension for that matter. Furthermore, many of the Pokemon you listed, while true can due an incredible amount of damage to it, none of them can switch in on it aside from say Virizion. It's a two-way streak in that sense. It really doesn't take all that much to compensate for its weaknesses at all. If your team is properly built, you should be able to handle them by default--that's a given. You argue that you have to go out of your way to support Rhyperior, but I disagree with that. Again, it's your team's responsibility to insure that it has proper synergy and accommodating Rhyperior just comes with the job if anything else. I like to view Rhyperior's viability in a broader sense, while yes it has weakness (how many Pokemon can claim not to?), I'd rather analyze it on how it impacts team building as a whole, its general performance, how well it can make up for its own flaws, and how easily it can fit on teams. When you explore these points in depth, it's easy to see why Rhyperior can be an S-rank threat. Now while I respect your opinion and I like the way you presented it, I can't come to an agreement here.

Very well, I rather end it here than spamming the entire thread with a bunch of crap, we both put our points in, we can let the councils do what they wish, thanks for the conversation.

 

[DGpegasus]

Aromatisse can't be Taunted. Also, Drapion is on of the few Pokemon in this tier that can use Evasion successfully with Acupressure. If that doesn't make it deserving of an A- rank at least, then I have no idea what will.

Ah I knew I forgot something. Though I do think that it's very amusing that a lot of Aromatisse users forget to run Aroma Veil. I've taunted this thing way too many times in the higher ladders.

I also want to ask, are we allowed to make comparisons with pokemon that have similair roles to support our arguments? I want to compare Drapion to some of the pokemon in A but most of them fill different roles so I'm not sure if I should make comparisons like these.

Anyways, I still do think it's very easy to underestimate Drapion. It hits harder than you think and has good stats all across the board.

A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

Drapion needs very little support to deal with offensive threats and defensive threats. I think it's easy to get free turns with Drapion since Taunt or Knock Off are usually reasons for the opponent to switch out meaning you screw up their momentum a bit. He is definitely one of the best Knock Off users in the tier and does better than most of the pokemon in B+ and even some of the A- pokemon. Because of these things I think he deserves to move up to A-.

 

[NotSoClutch]

Nominating kabutops for A. This thing is absolutely amazing and its current ranking is insulting. With tornadus gone, rain teams are a little bit difficult to support, but pokemon like meloetta and registeel are both really solid rain setters and abusers that go fairly well with kabutops. Ludicolo also works well with kabutops as they tend to cover one another fairly well and ludicolo is also an excellent rain setter. In rain very little can touch kabutops and depending on coverage it runs, it can take out most of its few checks in ru. However this role is somewhat niche. What really makes kabutops so great is its flexability. Kabutops makes a great offensive spinner as no ghost type in RU appreciates a knock off let alone a knock off from a pokemon with as much power as kabutops. Kabutops also makes for an interesting weak armor sweeper with endure and a weakness policy allowing it to outspeed most pokes that would generally be able to revenge it while also being able to power through a few of the checks to the offensive spinner sets. Kabutops can also act as a decent scarfer if need be and has access to stealth rocks and decent enough bulk to be a solid lead.

 

[The Lucky Absol]

I don't have any suggestions right now, but when will we see the list updated?

 

[Molk]

I don't have any suggestions right now, but when will we see the list updated?

dtc said he'd be doing it every saturday, butr personally i think the list should be updated a bit more often than that, me llamas and dtc are talking about a good period of time for updates now.

 

[atomicllamas]

Okay we finally updated the list, the following changes were made:

changes to pokemon

• Sceptile down from A to A-

• Smeargle down from A- to B+

• Hippopotas down from D to unlisted (E)

• Haunter down from C- to unlisted (E)

• Electivire down from D to E

• Claydol down from C- to D

• Vivillon up from B to B+

• Amoonguss up from B to B+

• Samurott up from D to C

• Doublade up from B- to B+

• Delphox up from A+ to S

• Zoroark up from A to A+

• Durant up from B+ to A-

• Clawitzer up from C+ to B-

• Medicham up from C+ to B-

• Magneton up from B- to B

• Meowstic-Male up from C+ to B

pokemon added to list

• Ditto - C

• Gogoat - see more discussion

• Ludicolo - C+

• Regirock - C-

• Seismitoad - C+

• Sneasel - C-

Needs more discussion before they are moved

(more important)

• rhyperior moving up to S

• virizion moving up to A

• heliolisk moving up A-

• shuckle moving up B+

• where should gogoat go???

• ludicolo and seismitoad moving up to B-

(less important)

• rotom moving up (in general - probably C+)

• eelektross moving up to B-

• pangoro moving up to B-

• barbaracle moving down to C+

• fletchinder moving down to C+

• qwilfish moving down to B-

• swellow moving down to C+

• stoutland moving down to unlisted (E)

• primeape moving down to D

I don't have any suggestions right now, but when will we see the list updated?

This week was kind of a shit show, because I had finals, and DTC was busy, we meant to update it yesterday, but I had to leave before we finished. We intend to update at least once every 5 days (It's been 6 since its updated), but as discussion slows down, and there are less pokemon being discussed at one time, they will just be moved when we feel a conclusion has been reached. Essentially, at least once every 5 days, unless we get busy, then whenever we can.