Resource RU Viability Ranking

[Adamantx]

I really think Shiftry should move up. I don't think it is outclassed in any way by any other defogger in the tier. It's probably the greatest offensive user of the move, in that it can threaten most hazard users in the tier, i.e. Bronzong, Claydol, Cofagrigus, Froslass, Gligar (It doesn't like Knock off), Rhyperior, etc. Really the only common setters it doesn't threaten are Cobalion, Registeel, and Druddigon. It also isn't dead weight when it isn't defogging either, as it possesses one of the most powerful priority moves in the tier. It is worth at least B Rank IMO

EDIT: Also I want to see Drifblim on this, it can run some cool baton pass sets with Weakness policy + Stockpile/Endure

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

I haven't used Barbaracle in RU before but it can't set up on as many things as you would think.

First of all, Barbaracle can't set up on CS Exploud's Boomburst if it isn't holding a White Herb assuming it moves first.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. -1 4 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 252-297 (88.1 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Also due to most of the good Slowkings running Assault Vest nowadays it can't set up on that either. Even then, the occasional actually defensive will likely be running Thunder Wave, stopping your chance of a sweep.

248+ SpA Slowking Scald vs. -1 4 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 204-241 (71.3 - 84.2%) -- about a 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Life Orb recoil.

I also don't like the argument of "it works well with Dugtrio or Meowstic" because there are more threatening one-turn set up sweepers in the metagame (like Slurpluff). I'm sure it can work without those two, but still.

 

[Jacks0n]

Zwelious to be ranked for C/C- Zwelios has a very legit niche in being able to completely stop delphox (better than slowking IMO only gets 4hkod by a +1 life orb fire blast with maximum special bulk), to check heliolisk, to check slowking and to check rotom mow. Zwelious has good bulk with eviolite and great attack with hustle which gives it offencive and defencive pressure. Usually there are better options than Zwelious but it has a very legit niche and should be ranked in the c's IMO.

 

[Talpr0ne]

What exactly is preventing Claydol from falling to E-Rank? I thought the general consensus was that it's a garbagemon that isn't worth using over Gligar, its direct competitor, as well as other hazard removers such as Hitmonlee/Top, Kabutops, Golbat, Togetic, and even Cryogonal.
Tbh I think Electivire is more viable in RU than Claydol.

 

[Turtleye]

What exactly is preventing Claydol from falling to E-Rank? I thought the general consensus was that it's a garbagemon that isn't worth using over Gligar, its direct competitor, as well as other hazard removers such as Hitmonlee/Top, Kabutops, Golbat, Togetic, and even Cryogonal.
Tbh I think Electivire is more viable in RU than Claydol.

It has a niche as being a spinner with SR, as well as being immune to (Toxic)Spikes and resisting SR.

 

[Molk]

It has a niche as being a spinner with SR, as well as being immune to (Toxic)Spikes and resisting SR.

actually as a hazard remover this is pretty much incorrect. The poster above stated that he thought that Claydol wasn't worth using over Gligar, and even when it comes to this Gligar still pretty much rains on Claydol's parade. Just Like Claydol, Gligar is immune to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes while not being weak to Stealth Rock and learning Stealth Rock itself, it doesn't resist Stealth Rock, but considering the fact that Gligar's hazard removal can't be blocked (important because claydol can't beat a spinblocker that isn't named Doublade), Gligar has an insane amount of increased bulk, especially on the physical side, is neutral to dark and ghost and trades a weakness to bug and a resistance, and the fact that Gligar has reliable recovery. Gligar is STILL by far the better option here.

The real niche that Claydol has over Gligar is the fact that its Rapid Spin doesn't remove any Stealth Rock/Spikes/etc that you set, but honestly, considering the fact that Claydol simply struggles in the metagame due to its many weaknesses, has trouble spinning against any spinblocker except doublade and has to rely on simply outlasting them (not being able to immediately remove hazards like this can REALLY suck, especially when they stack up, simply outlasting spinblockers often simply doesnt work), and has the tendency to be set up fodder to a ton of pokemon because of how weak its attacks are, i really, really find this rarely worth it :/.

I know Silentverse tried claydol out a bit and liked it, but when i tried it out for myself to see if it wasn't as bad as i thought, i frankly thought it was p. damn bad :x. Maybe not E rank bad, but i don't personally understand why anyone would consider moving it up.

 

[GlassGlaceon]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ru-viability-ranking.3506500/page-7#post-5458375

Claydol summed up tbh ^

 

[termi]

actually as a hazard user this is pretty much incorrect. The poster above stated that he thought that Claydol wasn't worth using over Gligar, and even when it comes to this Gligar still pretty much rains on Claydol's parade. Just Like Claydol, Gligar is immune to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes while not being weak to Stealth Rock and learning Stealth Rock itself, it doesn't resist Stealth Rock, but considering the fact that Gligar's hazard removal can't be blocked (important because claydol can't beat a spinblocker that isn't named Doublade), Gligar has an insane amount of increased bulk, especially on the physical side, is neutral to dark and ghost and trades a weakness to bug and a resistance, and the fact that Gligar has reliable recovery. Gligar is STILL by far the better option here.

The real niche that Claydol has over Gligar is the fact that its Rapid Spin doesn't remove any Stealth Rock/Spikes/etc that you set, but honestly, considering the fact that Claydol simply struggles in the metagame due to its many weaknesses, has trouble spinning against any spinblocker except doublade and has to rely on simply outlasting them (not being able to immediately remove hazards like this can REALLY suck), and has the tendency to be set up fodder to a ton of pokemon because of how weak its attacks are, i really, really find this rarely worth it :/.

I know Silentverse tried claydol out a bit and liked it, but when i tried it out for myself to see if it wasn't as bad as i thought, i frankly thought it was p. damn bad :x.

Sorry Molk, but you're so very very wrong in this post.

0 Atk Claydol Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 78-92 (24.2 - 28.5%) -- 95.6% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Claydol: 122-146 (37.6 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Claydol loses vs Doublade one on one, get your facts straight :[

Molk edit: i meant if it had random Earth Power silly.

 

[Shaymin :D]

Sorry Molk, but you're so very very wrong in this post.

0 Atk Claydol Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 78-92 (24.2 - 28.5%) -- 95.6% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Claydol: 122-146 (37.6 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Claydol loses vs Doublade one on one, get your facts straight :[

It can run Earth Power, which it should be if it wants to beat one spinblocker .___. still horrible

#200postwasted

 

[EonX]

I don't think you guys are understanding how Claydol is supposed to be used in order to beat spinblockers. You don't try to overpower them; you hit them with Toxic and whittle them down, thus letting Claydol spin before it goes down. The big edge Claydol has on Gligar is the ability to hold Leftovers. Thanks to this, it gets passive recovery, even if it gets forced out on the next switch-in, making it harder to wear down. Gligar has to hold Eviolite and must spend a turn to heal via Roost. And before you guys say that Claydol can be hit with Toxic and Gligar can't, you're wrong. Gligar has to run Hyper Cutter to use Defog. The idea Claydol set (correct me if I'm wrong SilentVerse ) is Spin/Toxic/Protect/EP. If you're trying to use it like Donphan up in UU, you're just doing it wrong. Claydol doesn't have the raw offensive stats to wear down spinblockers through sheer power alone; you need the help of Toxic and Protect to do this successfully. Claydol is fine at D rank imo. And, iirc, we had this discussion on IRC not too long ago.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

I don't think you guys are understanding how Claydol is supposed to be used in order to beat spinblockers. You don't try to overpower them; you hit them with Toxic and whittle them down, thus letting Claydol spin before it goes down. The big edge Claydol has on Gligar is the ability to hold Leftovers. Thanks to this, it gets passive recovery, even if it gets forced out on the next switch-in, making it harder to wear down. Gligar has to hold Eviolite and must spend a turn to heal via Roost. And before you guys say that Claydol can be hit with Toxic and Gligar can't, you're wrong. Gligar has to run Hyper Cutter to use Defog. The idea Claydol set (correct me if I'm wrong SilentVerse ) is Spin/Toxic/Protect/EP. If you're trying to use it like Donphan up in UU, you're just doing it wrong. Claydol doesn't have the raw offensive stats to wear down spinblockers through sheer power alone; you need the help of Toxic and Protect to do this successfully. Claydol is fine at D rank imo. And, iirc, we had this discussion on IRC not too long ago.

Lefties recovery means nothing when it has one of the worst defensive typings in the game. I'd rather waste a turn on something that'll last than have it there passively and die to half the hits in the damn game.

 

[Molk]

I don't think you guys are understanding how Claydol is supposed to be used in order to beat spinblockers. You don't try to overpower them; you hit them with Toxic and whittle them down, thus letting Claydol spin before it goes down. The big edge Claydol has on Gligar is the ability to hold Leftovers. Thanks to this, it gets passive recovery, even if it gets forced out on the next switch-in, making it harder to wear down. Gligar has to hold Eviolite and must spend a turn to heal via Roost. And before you guys say that Claydol can be hit with Toxic and Gligar can't, you're wrong. Gligar has to run Hyper Cutter to use Defog. The idea Claydol set (correct me if I'm wrong SilentVerse ) is Spin/Toxic/Protect/EP. If you're trying to use it like Donphan up in UU, you're just doing it wrong. Claydol doesn't have the raw offensive stats to wear down spinblockers through sheer power alone; you need the help of Toxic and Protect to do this successfully. Claydol is fine at D rank imo. And, iirc, we had this discussion on IRC not too long ago.

I'm not really defending claydol to move down to E rank, but i just wanted to point out something as food for thought (this is one of the reasons why in my above post that i thought that being able to outlast spinblockers wasn't really a good thing). In theory, yes Toxic+Protect Claydol can in theory outlast some spinblockers, but the big problem i have with that is that oftentimes by the time claydol gets to spin, the entry hazards have already taken their toll and hurt your team quite a bit. Considering the fact that Claydol is weak to all of Shadow Ball/Claw, Scald, Seed Bomb, Knock Off, and Ice Beam, it's not really a good idea to stay in against any of the spinblockers, forcing you to either switch out and let hazards damage rack up (not even taking burns/attacking moves along with that) even more while failing to spin that time (especially annoying if the opponent has spikes up against you if they're using Froslass offense or smth like that), or you have to stay in and either get heavily dented or KO'd by that move depending on what Pokemon it's coming from. The more times it has to do this until the spinblocker finally succumbs to Toxic (remember, some of the more defensive spinblockers have forms of recovery or even rest to make it take even longer for toxic to make a difference), the more damage entry hazards will be doing to Claydol's teammates before it actually gets to spin from my experience, and when it finally gets the chance to actually remove the hazards they've really already done their job .-.

 

[atomicllamas]

Hi, one Pokemon that I think could potentially be moved up at the moment is Abomasnow (mega), as it is actually really good in spite of its shitty typing. Its massive bulk allows it to take random priority moves with little problem, and can switch into water types, electric types, and non-poison grass types with near impunity. Allowing it to fire off its powerful STAB moves with no problem. I have been using a physically based mixed Abomasnow with Wood Hammer / Ice Shard / Earthquake / Blizzard, and it has been extremely useful. Abomasnow also fits on many types of teams pretty easily, from semi-stall (what I'm using rn) to HO and even on random things like TR teams it excels thanks to its bulk and offensive presence. And even though "hail teams" as they were defined in gen 5 are completely dead, the residual damage provided by hail is actually really useful against opposing offensive teams, as many lack ice types or even leftover users to cancel out the hail damage, I've won a couple games against dangerous last mon sweepers by sacking a mon, and letting Abomasnow set up hail to outstall the opposing sweeper.

@ Claydol discussion above, I believe that Claydol is fine where it is, as was already pointed out the toxic-protect set is the way to go. But unlike the discussion implies Claydol's typing does have quite a few defensive merits, as it resists the common Edge Quake combo, as well as fighting, another common offensive type. Unlike Gligar, it can also actually utilize its immunity to electricity, thanks to its high SpD, meaning that random surf / scald / grass knot / SE hidden powers actually don't do all that much. It also doesnt really directly compete with Gligar like people have been saying, as on full stall teams (read: the only teams you will ever use Claydol on) rapid spin is waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy better than defog, cause you are trying to keep up your own hazards. And while Molk does raise a good point about with the length of time it takes to actually get the spin off, your team has probably taken a lot of damage, but I'd assume that its on a team with a good wish passer and some mons with recovery to at least deal with some of the damage.

Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble than they're worth the majority of the time.

This is p much Claydol, it isn't a "bad pkmn" like Hitmonchan and Electivire, it just fits on a team style that most people don't like to use (stall). It obviously shouldn't be in the C rank because it's niche is small and it has noticeable flaws.

TL;DR: Abomasnow --> A-
Claydol should stay D, and people should stop derailing the thread even though it is "cool" to shit on Claydol.

 

[Jacks0n]

View attachment 14125Zwelious to be ranked for C/C- Zwelios has a very legit niche in being able to completely stop delphox (better than slowking IMO only gets 4hkod by a +1 life orb fire blast with maximum special bulk), to check heliolisk, to check slowking and to check rotom mow. Zwelious has good bulk with eviolite and great attack with hustle which gives it offencive and defencive pressure. Usually there are better options than Zwelious but it has a very legit niche and should be ranked in the c's IMO.

proof with calcs:

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Zweilous: 96-113 (27.6 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 211-250 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Mew2]

Time to stop talking about Claydol and start talking about cool things:

Unlisted----> C+
Things like garbage Muk (pun intended) get a rank while this thing doesn't. At first glance, Liepard just looks like a wannabe Whimisicott with inferior defensive typing and worse defenses but our loved cat gets STAB knock off something that Scott doesn't. It also gets thunder wave instead of stun spore so it has a reliable way to paralyze stuff and can paralyze grass types like Virizion and Sceptile. Finally if support isn't your choice you can try a diFURent set with priority nasty plot and STAB dark pulse.

C- -----> C
Primeape has a very unique niche because he is the only defiant pokemon who is able to beat Gligar thanks to ice punch. It also has U-turn to set it appart from other fighting types such as Hitmonlee and Gallade.

 

[cacturne]

Time to stop talking about Claydol and start talking about cool things:

Unlisted----> C+
Things like garbage Muk (pun intended) get a rank while this thing doesn't. At first glance, Liepard just looks like a wannabe Whimisicott with inferior defensive typing and worse defenses but our loved cat gets STAB knock off something that Scott doesn't. It also gets thunder wave instead of stun spore so it has a reliable way to paralyze stuff and can paralyze grass types like Virizion and Sceptile. Finally if support isn't your choice you can try a diFURent set with priority nasty plot and STAB dark pulse.

C- -----> C
Primeape has a very unique niche because he is the only defiant pokemon who is able to beat Gligar thanks to ice punch. It also has U-turn to set it appart from other fighting types such as Hitmonlee and Gallade.

even with all the qualities you listed for liepard i dont think it deserves more than C or C- rank simply because of its poor bulk and horrendous defensive typing leaving it at odds against things some of the more common attacks in the tier and frequently leading to it dieing before it does a whole hell of a lot. Though it does have redeeming and viable qualities I think it still struggles greatly in the RU metagame and low C is a much better place for it. I however support the ranking change for primeape and completely agree with the qualities stated about it especially with a potential +1 CC hitting pretty hard late game

EDIT: I also forgot to mention primeape has options to hit all other potential defoggers very hard such as Earthquake for skuntank and u-turn/CC for shiftry

 

[Oddish is the best]

Time to stop talking about Claydol and start talking about cool things:

Unlisted----> C+
Things like garbage Muk (pun intended) get a rank while this thing doesn't. At first glance, Liepard just looks like a wannabe Whimisicott with inferior defensive typing and worse defenses but our loved cat gets STAB knock off something that Scott doesn't. It also gets thunder wave instead of stun spore so it has a reliable way to paralyze stuff and can paralyze grass types like Virizion and Sceptile. Finally if support isn't your choice you can try a diFURent set with priority nasty plot and STAB dark pulse.

C- -----> C
Primeape has a very unique niche because he is the only defiant pokemon who is able to beat Gligar thanks to ice punch. It also has U-turn to set it appart from other fighting types such as Hitmonlee and Gallade.

Unfortunately, Primeape's shitty bulk means that it can't really switch into anything at all. Even after it gets a boost, it's very predictable and can be revenge killed easily anyways with that shitty bulk once again. It should remain in C-

 

[cacturne]

Unfortunately, Primeape's shitty bulk means that it can't really switch into anything at all. Even after it gets a boost, it's very predictable and can be revenge killed easily anyways with that shitty bulk once again. It should remain in C-

i was mainly talking about scarfape and tbh its real niche is to discourage defogging which it can actually do fairly effectively imo since it hits defoggers hard with its potentially boosted stabs/coverage

 

[Mew2]

Unfortunately, Primeape's shitty bulk means that it can't really switch into anything at all. Even after it gets a boost, it's very predictable and can be revenge killed easily anyways with that shitty bulk once again. It should remain in C-

Shitty bulk you say?
0 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primeape: 129-153 (47.4 - 56.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primeape: 86-102 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 86.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primeape: 117-139 (43 - 51.1%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO
VS
+2 252 Atk Primeape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skuntank: 468-552 (114.1 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Primeape might not be the bulkiest poke but he isn't alakazam or Deoxys-A

 

[Heyup MOFO]

And why would you keep your Gligar or Skunktank on after the boost? Unless it's at well under half health (which it will be, with all dem switch in's and the fact that Gligar can usually 2HKO) and that it can easily take out your defogger? Slightly less bad bulk is still bad bulk when compared to things that can easily just take it out without thinking. Ik, team mates, but just because you can use teamates to support, doesn't mean that makes it any better unless it creates a super awesome core or something.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

Getting 2HKOed by a Gligar definitely qualifies as having shitty bulk imo. Besides, while Primeape does beat Gligar at +2, it definitely is not the only one. At +2, CB Braviary also can frequently OHKO Gligar with an Adamant Brave Bird after rocks while being locked into a move much more powerful than Primeape's Ice Punch. The chances of (Scarf) Primeape OHKOing Gligar with a +2 Ice Punch are actually lower than CB Braviary's.

If you happen to be using a non-Scarf Primeape it will be almost completely outclassed by other Fighting-types outside of U-turn and Defiant. It is no longer the fastest Fighter in the tier, as Cobalion is faster and almost all them other than Cobalion and Virizion are stronger. If the foe doesn't have Defog on the team or is using certain a Defogers such as Golbat, Primeape is not going to get its chance to shine. Even Gligar will require you to use Ice Punch, which has a variety of safe switches that can force Primeape out. It has its niches but C- is where it should stay.

I've already given my thoughts on Liepard, and I still think it is pretty bad.

(The lag on this site is killing me, I've double posted and accidentally deleted both of the posts :/)

 

[Heyup MOFO]

I'd like to further state why Primeape shouldn't be used, but he just did it for me ^ so i cba :P.

Liepard was shocking, SwagPlay is for nubs who want easy wins and to say that skilled players have no talent cos they weren't expecting such nubbiness from someone. NP Dark Pulse still doesn't hit very hard, it doesn't normally OHKO Esca for example and will get KO'd extremely easily since it's bulk is so damn low. I don't think I need to say much else.

 

[ryan]

I'd like to further state why Primeape shouldn't be used, but he just did it for me ^ so i cba :P.

Liepard was shocking, SwagPlay is for nubs who want easy wins and to say that skilled players have no talent cos they weren't expecting such nubbiness from someone. NP Dark Pulse still doesn't hit very hard, it doesn't normally OHKO Esca for example and will get KO'd extremely easily since it's bulk is so damn low. I don't think I need to say much else.

Swagger is banned and NP is inconsistent. The reason to use Liepard is as an offensive supporting Pokemon. Priority Thunder Wave, Encore, and Taunt can all be incredibly useful for offensive teams. STAB Sucker Punch is another way for Liepard to help against offensive teams, and it works incredibly well with priority Encore, keeping opponents from dodging your Sucker Punch with a setup move or Substitute and getting away with it for free. Knock Off gives it a more consistent move to spam against things it's going to kill/force out, and Pursuit is another offensive support option that can help out teammates that struggle against bulky Psychic/Ghost-types.

It shouldn't be ranked for an illegal set or as a bad sweeper, but for its actual role in the metagame.

Also claydol is outclassed by golurk, because at least golurk is a robot man, nobody ever fucks with a robot.

 

[Heyup MOFO]

Swagger is banned and NP is inconsistent. The reason to use Liepard is as an offensive supporting Pokemon. Priority Thunder Wave, Encore, and Taunt can all be incredibly useful for offensive teams. STAB Sucker Punch is another way for Liepard to help against offensive teams, and it works incredibly well with priority Encore, keeping opponents from dodging your Sucker Punch with a setup move or Substitute and getting away with it for free. Knock Off gives it a more consistent move to spam against things it's going to kill/force out, and Pursuit is another offensive support option that can help out teammates that struggle against bulky Psychic/Ghost-types.

It shouldn't be ranked for an illegal set or as a bad sweeper, but for its actual role in the metagame.

Also claydol is outclassed by golurk, because at least golurk is a robot man, nobody ever fucks with a robot.

I guess that's fair enough. I wasn't trying to say it's role in it's metagame wasn't good, but people mentioned things liek SwagPlay or D-Pulse sets, which I disprove of. Didn't say Liepard wasn't good, just not at the things a lot of people think it's good at. If people wanna use it, for God's sake use it properly, like in the way you said xD.


Claydol get's fucked with by the Robot man. All we are missing is Lazer Beam eyes and an overthrow of teh world.

 

[Mew2]

I guess that's fair enough. I wasn't trying to say it's role in it's metagame wasn't good, but people mentioned things liek SwagPlay or D-Pulse sets, which I disprove of. Didn't say Liepard wasn't good, just not at the things a lot of people think it's good at. If people wanna use it, for God's sake use it properly, like in the way you said xD.


Claydol get's fucked with by the Robot man. All we are missing is Lazer Beam eyes and an overthrow of teh world.

No one mentioned Swagplay...