Resource RU Viability Rankings Thread

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phantom

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Welcome to the official RU Viability Rankings topic. In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into ranks. In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in RU and what rank they should fall under. The general idea of the topic is to rank each RU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order.

Note: Molk and atomicllamas also run this thread

NEW PKMN RANK:
Pokemon that are new to the RU tier that haven't been around long enough to be properly listed go here.

S RANK:
The best of the best. Reserved for Pokemon who shape and define the RU metagame and are a clear-cut above the rest of the tier. These Pokemon are typically very powerful offensive threats that are difficult to prepare for or are phenomenal support and defensive threats that provide significant utility or defensive potential, respectively. Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Steelix (Mega)
Tyrantrum
Virizion

A RANK:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame and can perform well against most play styles, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time. Pokemon in this rank are also known to define the play styles they fit on or are easy to add on any given team, while being able to carry their weight nearly every match.
A+ Rank

Alomomola
Diancie
Flygon
Meloetta
Sigilyph
Sneasel
Venusaur

A Rank

Abomasnow
Camerupt (mega)
Emboar
Glalie (mega)
Hoopa
Fletchinder
Medicham
Seismitoad
Slowking
Spiritomb

A- Rank

Blastoise
Delphox
Drapion
Hitmonlee
Houndoom
Jellicent
Registeel
Rhyperior
Tangrowth

B RANK:
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job, are setup bait for dangerous sweepers, or often give too many free turns. Pokemon who are partially outperformed or struggle with taking on the Pokemon in the A or S Rank, but are otherwise dangerous in their own right and aren't difficult to fit on teams, may also fall into this category.

B+ Rank

Absol
Aerodactyl
Dugtrio
Escavalier
Exploud
Gallade
Gurdurr
Jolteon
Malamar
Manectric
Qwilfish
Rotom
Rotom-Mow
Sawk
Scrafty

B Rank

Accelgor
Aromatisse
Audino (mega)
Braviary
Bronzong
Druddigon
Garbodor
Granbull
Magneton
Mawile
Mesprit
Togetic
Weezing

B- Rank

Aggron
Eelektross
Musharna
Piloswine
Poliwrath
Pelipper
Roselia
Samurott
Smeargle
Vivillon

C RANK:
Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective in the right setting, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks. Pokemon in this rank typically require more extensive support, struggle performing against the Pokemon ranked above, and are difficult to fit on teams.

C+ Rank

Audino
Clawitzer
Hariyama
Hitmontop
Jynx
Omastar
Rotom-S
Sceptile
Shiftry
Skuntank
Uxie

C Rank

Archeops
Articuno
Ferroseed
Golbat
Gourgeist XL
Kabutops
Ludicolo
Mr. Mime
Trevenant
Xatu

C- Rank

Aurorus
Banette (mega)
Barbaracle
Cofagrigus
Gastrodon
Klinklang
Lanturn
Liepard
Linoone
Rotom-F
Steelix

Meru RANK aka BLACKLISTED aka D RANK:
The worst of the worst. Bad pkmn (RU Pokemon by usage that are bad will be listed here. Everything not listed also falls in here). Unviable Pokemon that have been repeatedly brought up in this thread, whether they're RU by usage or not, will also be listed here. Discussion on these Pokemon often tends to derail the thread, and therefore discussion on them is not allowed.

Ambipom
Cinccino
Typhlosion

CONCLUSION REACHED:
Reserved for Pokemon that get repeatedly brought up to change ranking based on shoddy reasoning. Such discussions tends to derail the thread significantly; therefore, discussion on any of the below is prohibited. No: it will not move up/down, it will stay where it is. Do not post about it.

RULES:
  • Don't derail the thread by asking "why did this move up/down". This is a discussion thread and posts like this don't contribute to the discussion. If you disagree about X Pokemon's placement, nominate it to move up/down.
  • Should you want to nominate something to be ranked that's not on the list, you must have 3 replays showing the Pokemon being used successfully vs good teams and it must have a distinguishable niche seen in these replays.
  • If something didn't move up in the prior update, don't keep nominating it again and again unless a significant metagame shift occurs.
 

EonX

One and Only
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Guess I'll be the first to nom some things:

Vileplume: I've been using this a lot recently on balance, and it's seriously underrated. It's one of the absolute best switch-ins for Virizion, Tangrowth, Alomomola, Seismitoad, and a few others. All of these are pretty significant threats. Moonblast is a godsend for it allowing it to just trash Scrafty and the many Dark-types roaming around the tier atm. I feel people make the mistake of using a fully defensive spread with Vileplume, but I feel that makes it outclassed by Amoonguss. Instead, I think Vileplume's greatest use lies in its base 110 Special Attack. A Synthesis + 3 Attacks set is widely considered to be the most reliable set for Vileplume, and using a more offensive approach to it is the best way to go I think. While not really fleshed out much, I've been using a spread of 192 HP / 100 Def / 216 Special Attack Modest spread and it just does so many useful things. It suddenly has good power vs. neutral targets and it means most Pokemon wanting to switch into it outside of Steels risk taking some pretty good damage. I still use Black Sludge to lessen the reliance on Synthesis to stay healthy, but you could probably use Life Orb for even more power if you really wanted. Vileplume struggles most with Steel-type Pokemon, but the best one is neutral to Grass and Moonblast can at least chip Durant decently with the Special Attack investment. I think B- is a good rank for it.While I think it truly deserves B rank, that might be too far to go with 1 nom, so I'd be fine with B- for now.

Hariyama: This thing is a fucking lord on balance. It cold stops Houndoom, checks any Sharpedo without Zen Headbutt (outright beats H-Pump + Ice Beam Shark) deals with most Fire- and Ice-types quite well, and the powerful Dark-types in the tier make Psychic-types a little less common. And it also happens to check most of the Dark-types in the tier. It lacks recovery, really only has one set, and can really only be used on balance and MAYBE bulky offense, but it's one of the best Pokemon a balance team can add. Much like with Vileplume, I've used it a fair bit recently and it rarely disappoints me. It hits pretty hard offensively, can take a pretty good beating itself, and it has all the coverage it really needs in 3 moves (Close Combat, Knock Off, Heavy Slam) leaving it with quite a few cute options for that last slot (Fire Punch to be a one-time Durant check, Ice Punch to beat Flygon, Stone Edge to beat Fletchinders trying to set up on you for some reason) Much like with Vileplume, I think Hariyama would do good for B- rank. It has stiff competition as a Fighting-type, but it's probably the best "bulky Fighitng-type" the tier has to offer and is probably one of the best ones for balance teams to use.

Aromatisse: Not really sure why this is hanging on to A-. Aromatisse is easy switch-in material for Mega Steelix and it can't really hold up against many of the top tier theats. It outright loses to Durant, Tangrowth commonly carries Sludge Bomb, always has a chance of losing to Sharpedo if it's using the wrong spread for the specific variant, and Absol can carry Iron Tail. Wish support is great, but Aromatisse usually ends up dying to pass the Wish successfully. Overall, Aromatisse is just a Pokemon that has slowly gotten worse and worse with each meta shift for a while now, and this one was no different. So many Pokemon can come in with little fear and do as they please against it, and it just doesn't do nearly as good of a job as it used to. Should probably drop to at least B+ rank.
 

Serene Grace

Live for the applause
is a Tiering Contributor


Poliwrath for B+

I think that Poliwrath deserves a rise to a higher rank because of its ability to check so many threats including some of the new drops. It beats pretty much all Sharpedo and Absol Variants with its physically defensive rest talk set. It also checks many RU staples like Houndoom and Durant and even the mighty Tyrantrum. Access to water absorb is an incredible ability and phazing in circle throw makes it an asset to many teams. Circle throw in particular is very good in hazard stack teams and also makes sure that Poliwrath isn't just set up bait for a number of top threats. Basically, Poliwrath just checks a lot of pokemon in one slot and this role compression is very good and should lead to its rise in rank.
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun


Mawile
Unranked ---> C-/C

With the recent tier shifts I requested a team with a Mawile and got a Swords Dance + Baton Pass set which I wasn't expecting. As it turns out it is so good. Intimidate isn't to useful most of the times but in some situations it can allow you to get a Swords Dance the BP. Mawile also lures in stuff like Alomomola who think they can burn it while you use it as set up fodder. There aren't any Swords Dance Baton Passers in RU except for two that will most likely never do this because of there bulk and having a lot better utility than this purpose (Absol & Smeargle) while in NU you the other options of Combusken which is flat out obvious if you don't have speed boost and Scyther which is OK. With the new drops there are a lot of threatening things that can receive these boost such as Aerodactyl and Absol but also some previous pokemon such as Mega Banette, Flygon and Tyrantrum. I can provide replays if it is needed.
 
Wow, is Ampharos that bad?

Anyways, on to the meat of my post:

354-mega.gif
Mega Banette down to C
It might just be me, but I don't see how this thing is that good. Sure, it's got a monstrous attack stat which gives it a debilitating Knock off or Sucker Punch, but neither of those moves are STAB moves, forcing you to use Shadow Claw as your main STAB. But with these three, Mega Banette is very easily played around, being both very slow and frail leaves it open to anything that can take a hit from sucker punch, outspeed it when it doesn't go for Sucker Punch, or even respond with your own sucker punch in the case of something like Absol, and because Mega Banette is a ghost type, if something sucker punches your sucker punch you're almost garunteed to go down. It's final common move, Destiny Bond is also very easily played around. All in All, Mega Banette's only real niche is a spinblocker that can hit hard, but there's better choices for spinblockers and even then, you can't spinblock Blastoise unless you run Taunt, which takes away from the rest of the moves you need to function. Mega Banette just isn't that good.

Also, Lilligant seems to be missing from D rank. Is there any reason for that?
 


Mawile
Unranked ---> C-/C

With the recent tier shifts I requested a team with a Mawile and got a Swords Dance + Baton Pass set which I wasn't expecting. As it turns out it is so good. Intimidate isn't to useful most of the times but in some situations it can allow you to get a Swords Dance the BP. Mawile also lures in stuff like Alomomola who think they can burn it while you use it as set up fodder. There aren't any Swords Dance Baton Passers in RU except for two that will most likely never do this because of there bulk and having a lot better utility than this purpose (Absol & Smeargle) while in NU you the other options of Combusken which is flat out obvious if you don't have speed boost and Scyther which is OK. With the new drops there are a lot of threatening things that can receive these boost such as Aerodactyl and Absol but also some previous pokemon such as Mega Banette, Flygon and Tyrantrum. I can provide replays if it is needed.
The one additional note I'd like to make for my support on Mawile is that is also provides offense with an Absol counter, a Tyrantrum check/potential counter, a Scrafty counter, a Stealth Rocker, and a pivot using baton pass all in one slot. That's a lot of utility and role compression for offense considering every offensive team needs to be able to handle Tyrantrum and Absol. Mawile is underrated. I know that the argument is that Granbull does the same thing, but Granbull can't check Tyrantrum, can't set up rocks, and can't pivot out or potentially boost another 'mon for a potential sweep.
 

lighthouses

Chasing after dreamers in the clouds
is a Tiering Contributor
Kabutops up to B - This thing remains as the only spinner worth running on offense(unless it's one of those rare scenarios where scarf spin lee is required). Kabutops is far better than hitmonlee as a spinner for offensive teams as it provides the team with a lot of key resistances(flying, 4x fire) whereas hitmonlee has none(unless you consider it resists dark which i don't think ever comes into play). With that said kabutops has literally no competition on the offensive spinner role whatsoever and should be ranked higher.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life

Granbull up to B+
Granbull is such an amazing mon this meta, as it checks the influx of Dark and Fighting types that run around the meta right now, while also packing a massive punch with it's high 120 attack and decent coverage. Granbull can even check other physical attacking mons thanks to Intimidate and it's respectable bulk. It's probably one of the most splashable mons for offense and bulky offense right now due to it's niche at walling the Dark and Fighting types. It can also support the team with moves like Thunder Wave and Heal Bell. While it may receive competition as a bulky Fairy type from Aromatisse, who has WishPass, Granbull at least isn't TOTAL switchin bait for MegaLix, and has a higher offensive presence that doesn't make it set-up bait. Granbull still has problems, yes, like no realiable recovery, low speed, and it's mediocre Special Defense, but in the current meta, a lot of teams want something that can take on Dark and Fighting types with ease, while also having an awesome offensive presence and good supporting and wallbreaking potential, so I think Granbull truly deserves a rise.

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Steelix: 162-192 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Steelix: 194-230 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Basically, MegaLix can switch in on Granbull, but it's gonna take a fuckton from coverage and gets 2HKOed by Close Combat.

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Play Rough vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 235-277 (46.9 - 55.2%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Granbull can even do a decent chunk to the Great Wall of Mola!

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 153-181 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 184-217 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Offensive steel types, mainly Durant, get 2HKOed by CC or EQ, and in Durant's case, OHKOed by Fire Punch.


I am supporting the drop of Aromatisse to B+ as it is set-up bait for a lot of mons, get switched into by a whole lot of stuff, and it's getting really hard to WishPass this meta. Honestly I would just use Granbull over Tisse.
 
I think Hariyama would do good for B- rank. It has stiff competition as a Fighting-type, but it's probably the best "bulky Fighitng-type" the tier has to offer and is probably one of the best ones for balance teams to use.
Honestly this thing is just so great right now I would even go as far as B rank for yama. Literally stopping abomasnow in it's tracks which is the best offensive mega in the tier currently is just amazing. It has the coverage it needs in cc, knock off, heavy slam, and filler (LOADS of options for your last slot depending on your team). It's an extremely undarrated threat right now and definitely deserving of B rank IMO.
 
Honestly this thing is just so great right now I would even go as far as B rank for yama. Literally stopping abomasnow in it's tracks which is the best offensive mega in the tier currently is just amazing. It has the coverage it needs in cc, knock off, heavy slam, and filler (LOADS of options for your last slot depending on your team). It's an extremely undarrated threat right now and definitely deserving of B rank IMO.
To be fair, it really doesn't stop M-Abomasnow in its tracks. It gets demolished by Wood Hammer and most SD Abomasnows run enough speed to beat base 50s if I remember correctly. Hariyama is great but saying it stops M-Aboma is overselling. It's a check at best, but only on predicted ice moves.

Edit for calc:
AoA Set
84 Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 184 Def Hariyama: 205-243 (47.7 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
(205, 208, 210, 213, 216, 217, 220, 223, 225, 228, 229, 232, 235, 237, 240, 243)

SD Set
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 184 Def Hariyama: 255-301 (59.4 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
(255, 258, 261, 264, 267, 270, 273, 276, 279, 282, 285, 288, 291, 294, 297, 301)
 

EonX

One and Only
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Ok, time for the nom I think a lot of you guys have been waiting for:

Absol for S rank: It's no secret that Dark-types kind of dominate the metagame right now. Absol, Houndoom, and Sharpedo are the big 3. Of them, Absol performs the best overall by far. Its base 130 Attack stat is absolutely insane and while Absol was good in BW RU for those who remember that, the Knock Off buff only makes it harder to handle. Sucker Punch and Knock Off should be on just about every Absol set out there. Knock Off is super powerful and is severely denting just about anything that doesn't resist it with a very select few exceptions. (I'll get back to those in a minute) From there, Absol has two moveslots to work with that it can use to mix and match to do what its team needs it to do. So, let's run through those moves real quick just to give you an idea as to how flexible Absol is:
Swords Dance: Boosting Attack two stages on a Pokemon that's already a powerful force is downright devestating. Sucker Punch virtually OHKOes every offensive mon in the tier at +2 and Knock Off is breaking Alomomola at +2, one of the very few defensive Pokemon that can work its way around Absol without a boost. While extreme frailty and average Speed can sometimes hinder it setting up, this usually only comes into play vs. faster teams, in which case Absol's raw power will be enough to deal with them.
Superpower: This does heavy damage to Mega Steelix and hits most Fighting-types hard enough to KO them. The stat drops suck, but this nulifies Dark- and bulky Steel-type switch-ins in an instant.
Iron Tail: Fairy-types are usually the best answer to Dark-types, but Absol has the ability to run Iron Tail to quickly eliminate or severely damage every Fairy-type in the tier. Iron Tail is especially deadly on a Swords Dance set as Absol can use SD as a Fairy switches in and immediately demolish it with Iron Tail.
Pursuit: This is probably the go-to move to use if you're looking for something other than Swords Dance in Absol's 3rd slot. Pursuit allows it to destroy Pokemon that are fleeing in fear of Sucker Punch or Knock Off. This can be especially useful if you're using it with Scarf Medicham to ensure bulky Ghosts and Psychics are severely weakened or outright removed.
Fire Blast: Really only useful if you're not using Swords Dance and need a stronger hit on Mega Steelix. However, considering it is the best Mega in the tier, that might make it worth using.
Psycho Cut: Useful for beating Amoonguss and Vileplume reliably after a Knock Off switch-in. Considering Amoonguss has Spore and Vileplume has Moonblast, this can be very helpful. And Sucker Punch is no guarantee on Vileplume since it commonly carries Synthesis.
Play Rough: Probably the least useful coverage move Absol might want to use, but it does do very heavy damage to Hariyama and Poliwrath. It doesn't do much outside of this, but considering these two can handle any other attack Absol throws at them, it does have legitimate use.

So after looking at these moves, can you think of a Pokemon that might be able to handle every move Absol can utilize? And remember that Absol can run a combination of these coverage moves (tho remember Pursuit and Fire Blast likely won't be used with SD) While Absol is never going to be able to carry all of the moves it needs to take on everything at once, you do have to honor those coverage options and scout to figure out what you need to deal with the Absol variant you're facing. Keep in mind that this is all with one base set (Adamant max /max Life Orb. Jolly doesn't get you anything in terms of Speed) The versatility with one set is amazing. It doesn't need very much support at all to function. It's able to wallbreak and sweep what it chooses to thanks to virtually having two free moveslots. It's very consistent and always pulls its weight so long as the user knows what they're doing. I think that's a sign of an S rank Pokemon.
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
Ok, time for the nom I think a lot of you guys have been waiting for:

Absol for S rank: It's no secret that Dark-types kind of dominate the metagame right now. Absol, Houndoom, and Sharpedo are the big 3. Of them, Absol performs the best overall by far. Its base 130 Attack stat is absolutely insane and while Absol was good in BW RU for those who remember that, the Knock Off buff only makes it harder to handle. Sucker Punch and Knock Off should be on just about every Absol set out there. Knock Off is super powerful and is severely denting just about anything that doesn't resist it with a very select few exceptions. (I'll get back to those in a minute) From there, Absol has two moveslots to work with that it can use to mix and match to do what its team needs it to do. So, let's run through those moves real quick just to give you an idea as to how flexible Absol is:
Swords Dance: Boosting Attack two stages on a Pokemon that's already a powerful force is downright devestating. Sucker Punch virtually OHKOes every offensive mon in the tier at +2 and Knock Off is breaking Alomomola at +2, one of the very few defensive Pokemon that can work its way around Absol without a boost. While extreme frailty and average Speed can sometimes hinder it setting up, this usually only comes into play vs. faster teams, in which case Absol's raw power will be enough to deal with them.
Superpower: This does heavy damage to Mega Steelix and hits most Fighting-types hard enough to KO them. The stat drops suck, but this nulifies Dark- and bulky Steel-type switch-ins in an instant.
Iron Tail: Fairy-types are usually the best answer to Dark-types, but Absol has the ability to run Iron Tail to quickly eliminate or severely damage every Fairy-type in the tier. Iron Tail is especially deadly on a Swords Dance set as Absol can use SD as a Fairy switches in and immediately demolish it with Iron Tail.
Pursuit: This is probably the go-to move to use if you're looking for something other than Swords Dance in Absol's 3rd slot. Pursuit allows it to destroy Pokemon that are fleeing in fear of Sucker Punch or Knock Off. This can be especially useful if you're using it with Scarf Medicham to ensure bulky Ghosts and Psychics are severely weakened or outright removed.
Fire Blast: Really only useful if you're not using Swords Dance and need a stronger hit on Mega Steelix. However, considering it is the best Mega in the tier, that might make it worth using.
Psycho Cut: Useful for beating Amoonguss and Vileplume reliably after a Knock Off switch-in. Considering Amoonguss has Spore and Vileplume has Moonblast, this can be very helpful. And Sucker Punch is no guarantee on Vileplume since it commonly carries Synthesis.
Play Rough: Probably the least useful coverage move Absol might want to use, but it does do very heavy damage to Hariyama and Poliwrath. It doesn't do much outside of this, but considering these two can handle any other attack Absol throws at them, it does have legitimate use.

So after looking at these moves, can you think of a Pokemon that might be able to handle every move Absol can utilize? And remember that Absol can run a combination of these coverage moves (tho remember Pursuit and Fire Blast likely won't be used with SD) While Absol is never going to be able to carry all of the moves it needs to take on everything at once, you do have to honor those coverage options and scout to figure out what you need to deal with the Absol variant you're facing. Keep in mind that this is all with one base set (Adamant max /max Life Orb. Jolly doesn't get you anything in terms of Speed) The versatility with one set is amazing. It doesn't need very much support at all to function. It's able to wallbreak and sweep what it chooses to thanks to virtually having two free moveslots. It's very consistent and always pulls its weight so long as the user knows what they're doing. I think that's a sign of an S rank Pokemon.
S Rank definition: The best of the best. Reserved for Pokemon who shape and define the RU metagame and are a clear-cut above the rest of the tier. These Pokemon are typically very powerful offensive threats that are difficult to prepare for or are phenomenal support and defensive threats that provide significant utility or defensive potential, respectively. Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.
OK time for the counter argument. Absol isn't meta defining like Steelix, Tyrantrum or Snow (which personally I don't think it should be up there). Absol isn't the best Swords Dancer unfortunately due to its god awful base 60 defenses and that speed tier holds it back. The statement of it being the best all-out attacker is also debatable between things like Mega Snow and Sharpedo as well as its speed isn't exactly the best in the world. I can argue it is easy to fit onto teams and not have to build around it or even support it (bar having a fighting resist for incoming Mach Punches and just faster fighting types in general) for AoA but Swords Dance is a whole different story. Different roles? AoA w/ Pursuit and SD. Sure it has coverage moves to support its team mates in a lot of different ways but a lot of A+ pokemon have that to such as Flygon, Meloetta, and Slowking. I have to give it credit to being Versatile within its two movepools but it isn't like we have to prep every team to take on Absol specifically (I'm talking to you Tyrantrum) It has a lot of flaws and it isn't really "mitigated" by its coverage options because of mostly its speed, bulk and obvious super fighting weakness.
Feel free to counter this in any way you want EonX . BTW your a kewl dude :]
 
OK time for the counter argument. Absol isn't meta defining like Steelix, Tyrantrum or Snow (which personally I don't think it should be up there). Absol isn't the best Swords Dancer unfortunately due to its god awful base 60 defenses and that speed tier holds it back. The statement of it being the best all-out attacker is also debatable between things like Mega Snow and Sharpedo as well as its speed isn't exactly the best in the world. I can argue it is easy to fit onto teams and not have to build around it or even support it (bar having a fighting resist for incoming Mach Punches and just faster fighting types in general) for AoA but Swords Dance is a whole different story. Different roles? AoA w/ Pursuit and SD. Sure it has coverage moves to support its team mates in a lot of different ways but a lot of A+ pokemon have that to such as Flygon, Meloetta, and Slowking. I have to give it credit to being Versatile within its two movepools but it isn't like we have to prep every team to take on Absol specifically (I'm talking to you Tyrantrum) It has a lot of flaws and it isn't really "mitigated" by its coverage options because of mostly its speed, bulk and obvious super fighting weakness.
Feel free to counter this in any way you want EonX . BTW your a kewl dude :]
I disagree. I think that you do need to account for Absol on every team. It has the power to tear through all offensive teams with Sucker Punch and SD to do the same to defensive and balance teams. In my opinion, he's more dangerous than Tyrantrum because of the versatility within one set. It doesn't need to change items to break through the different archetypes (ie. Band vs. Scarf for Tyrantrum) and because of its excellent coverage options, it can easily dismantle any of the teams' opposing checks while building the remainder of the team to remove the rest. Absol is a serious issue in my opinion. It has the same effect on offense as Tyrantrum does, the only difference is you need a dark resist instead of a rock resist.
 

EonX

One and Only
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OK time for the counter argument. Absol isn't meta defining like Steelix, Tyrantrum or Snow (which personally I don't think it should be up there). Absol isn't the best Swords Dancer unfortunately due to its god awful base 60 defenses and that speed tier holds it back. The statement of it being the best all-out attacker is also debatable between things like Mega Snow and Sharpedo as well as its speed isn't exactly the best in the world. I can argue it is easy to fit onto teams and not have to build around it or even support it (bar having a fighting resist for incoming Mach Punches and just faster fighting types in general) for AoA but Swords Dance is a whole different story. Different roles? AoA w/ Pursuit and SD. Sure it has coverage moves to support its team mates in a lot of different ways but a lot of A+ pokemon have that to such as Flygon, Meloetta, and Slowking. I have to give it credit to being Versatile within its two movepools but it isn't like we have to prep every team to take on Absol specifically (I'm talking to you Tyrantrum) It has a lot of flaws and it isn't really "mitigated" by its coverage options because of mostly its speed, bulk and obvious super fighting weakness.
Feel free to counter this in any way you want EonX . BTW your a kewl dude :]
I don't think I ever said Absol performs different roles. It has one base set of Sucker Punch Knock Off + any 2 of the moves I listed in my original post with Adamant nature and Life Orb. Tyrantrum is S rank largely because of its Choice Scarf set. And Absol's base set can work in a couple of ways. You can turn it into a sweeper with Swords Dance (just SD on one of the numerous switches Absol is bound to force when it comes in) a trapper with Pursuit + a coverage option, or just an outright wallbreaker with two coverage moves. I don't exactly recommend the last idea, but I'm pretty sure you could do that and still be just fine. So that same base set can perform as a sweeper, trapper, or wallbreaker. But no matter what you decide to go for, it will always threaten to revenge kill offensive threats and clean late-game because of that powerful STAB Sucker Punch. Mega Abomasnow is super weak to Fire- and Fighting-types and even loses to Mega Steelix most times. But that doesn't stop it form being S rank because it threatens every playstyle in the tier (albeit it needs two sets to do that) Mega Steelix defines balance and bulky offense in the tier without question. If you're using one of those team archetypes, odds are Mega Steelix at least crossed your mind while teambuilding. Tyrantrum is, well, Tyrantrum. It bodies offense and the lack of Rock resists is huge for it. Absol has a base set that can be tweaked to whatever its team needs and that same base set can perform 3 different roles depending on the combination of moves you give it. It's one of the defining forces of offense in the tier right now and it's able to threaten any playstyle its user wants it to based on the combination of moves he / she chooses to put on Absol. I can definitely see your side of the argument with Absol's Speed and bulk holding it back some, but I think you're misunderstanding why Absol is worthy of S rank.

tl;dr: Absol uses SD to punish a switch, not outright set up and sweep. It can choose to trap with Pursuit if SD isn't your thing. It can run full coverage if you don't want SD or Pursuit. Its base set can revenge kill and clean no matter what route you go with the other two moves. It can threaten whatever playstyle you want it to; just pick the right combination of moves after Sucker Punch and Knock Off.
 

Take Azelfie

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I don't think I ever said Absol performs different roles. It has one base set of Sucker Punch Knock Off + any 2 of the moves I listed in my original post with Adamant nature and Life Orb. Tyrantrum is S rank largely because of its Choice Scarf set. And Absol's base set can work in a couple of ways. You can turn it into a sweeper with Swords Dance (just SD on one of the numerous switches Absol is bound to force when it comes in) a trapper with Pursuit + a coverage option, or just an outright wallbreaker with two coverage moves. I don't exactly recommend the last idea, but I'm pretty sure you could do that and still be just fine. So that same base set can perform as a sweeper, trapper, or wallbreaker. But no matter what you decide to go for, it will always threaten to revenge kill offensive threats and clean late-game because of that powerful STAB Sucker Punch. Mega Abomasnow is super weak to Fire- and Fighting-types and even loses to Mega Steelix most times. But that doesn't stop it form being S rank because it threatens every playstyle in the tier (albeit it needs two sets to do that) Mega Steelix defines balance and bulky offense in the tier without question. If you're using one of those team archetypes, odds are Mega Steelix at least crossed your mind while teambuilding. Tyrantrum is, well, Tyrantrum. It bodies offense and the lack of Rock resists is huge for it. Absol has a base set that can be tweaked to whatever its team needs and that same base set can perform 3 different roles depending on the combination of moves you give it. It's one of the defining forces of offense in the tier right now and it's able to threaten any playstyle its user wants it to based on the combination of moves he / she chooses to put on Absol. I can definitely see your side of the argument with Absol's Speed and bulk holding it back some, but I think you're misunderstanding why Absol is worthy of S rank.

tl;dr: Absol uses SD to punish a switch, not outright set up and sweep. It can choose to trap with Pursuit if SD isn't your thing. It can run full coverage if you don't want SD or Pursuit. Its base set can revenge kill and clean no matter what route you go with the other two moves. It can threaten whatever playstyle you want it to; just pick the right combination of moves after Sucker Punch and Knock Off.
I can also see why you would also put it in S. The only reason for that post is for just displaying a few arguements that could be used against it. Nothing gets into S rank easily unless they are good and most of what I did was see if it was compared to the description of an S rank pokemon. You pretty much cleared up any reasoning to beat those claims in your last comment (I'll suppose I'll mention ban me for mentioning the whole item thing to) but your first reasoning just seem to it has these good options and a high attack. I'm fine with Absol in S now that you have cleared things up.
 
Archeops --> B/B-

I dont see any reason why this shouldnt be higher than c+. Ho is now more common and this is in my mean the best lead for it. It has a great movepool including endeavor taunt stealth rock and head smash combined with a great speedtier. It may face competition from aerodactyl because its faster but aerodactyl is far worse becausr of its bad movepool. Archeops has the ability to weaken many rock checks by endeavor while every over mon can be heavily damaged by head smash. While the most spinners can spin on aerodactyl with ease, archeops can head smash itself to death and than prevent the spinners from doing their job while giving another mon a free switch in.
 

Serene Grace

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I would say that Archeops deserves its rank to be at C+ only. The only thing that Archeops does better than Aerodactyl is that its lead set can Head Smash to make sure hazards can't be removed and that it has a cute move in Endeavour. Although Archeops has more sheer power, defeatist is way too crippling to ever consider using Archeops instead of Aerodactyl for anything other than a Suicide lead role. Aerodactyl has better speed, a nonshitty ability, good coverage moves and marginally better bulk. The lead set is the reason why it is even C+ to begin with and as long as Aerodactyl is in the tier I don't see Archeops rising.
 
The problem with suicide leads is that now with Blastoise in the tier, it is easier than ever to remove hazards, and imo if you have a Suicide Lead that can only put up one hazard(SR), then it's not a super good lead. Plus, you mentioned a Pokemon that completely outclasses Archeops in most ways, and that is Aerodactyl. Aerodactyl, when suicide leading, can easily just run Double Edge to have the same effect as Archeops, which also does almost the same damage as Head Smash when in Defeatist range.
252 Atk Aerodactyl Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 113-133 (33.1 - 39%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Defeatist Archeops Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 129-153 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Endeavor is a neat tool to use, but even then, there is little reason to use Archeops over Aero imo.
Not only that, but the more offensive sets(mixed keeps it from being outclassed by aero) have a hard time getting past things like Alomomola, Blastoise, and Flygon, which are very common, and its bulk is very pitiful, along with its complete shit ability.
Archeops is fine where it is.
 

Stunfisk @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Discharge
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Protect

With the rise of meta-defining Tyrantrum and tons of physical wallbreakers and sweepers like Durant, Fletchinder, and Emboar, Stunfisk's good defenses, decent typing, amazing hp, and good movepool (including discharge, earth power, scald, stealth rock, pain split, foul play) provides a wall that can stop a lot of threats in the RU tier.

Tyrantrum straight up loses to Stunfisk
252 Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 93-111 (22 - 26.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tyrantrum Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 168-198 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tyrantrum Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 168-198 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS
4 SpA Stunfisk Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 252-296 (82.3 - 96.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It counters Fletchinder and just about any other flying type in the tier
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 54-64 (12.7 - 15.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
4 SpA Stunfisk Discharge vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Fletchinder: 246-290 (81.1 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 76-90 (18 - 21.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Braviary Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 129-153 (30.5 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Stunfisk Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Braviary: 186-218 (54.5 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

It even does decently well against Emboar, Durant, and Drapion
+1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 105-123 (24.8 - 29.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 210-247 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Stunfisk Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 145-172 (56.4 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 153-180 (36.2 - 42.6%) -- 95% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 183-216 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Stunfisk Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 234-276 (64.8 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Drapion Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 124-146 (29.3 - 34.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 100-118 (23.6 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Stunfisk Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 206-246 (73.3 - 87.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Stunfisk is definitely an underrated pokemon in this tier for these reasons
Unranked-> B-/B
 
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EonX

One and Only
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Archeops: I can see Archeops going to B-, but that's it. Aerodactyl shouldn't be running a "Lead" set due to the high opportunity cost of using such a set. While Aero can slap Rocks onto its Life Orb set (legit set btw. it's fun) it struggles a bit with common spinners and Defoggers. The higher Speed on Aero doesn't really make a big difference for getting Rocks up and keeping them up. Scarf Flygon and Scarf Hitmonlee outspeed both and can use Defog / Rapid Spin (questionable moves on both, but bear with me) anyway. If I'm considering a suicide Rocks lead for hyper offense, I"m using Archeops. It does the job well and can ensure SR stays on the field early-game thanks to Head Smash and the low opportunity cost of using Archeops in this fashion. B- is fine, but no higher. And I wouldn't be super opposed to keeping it in C+. Just felt I needed to point out why you should be using it over Aero in terms of a "dedicated lead".

Stunfisk: I can't see this going higher than C rank tbh. You should only really consider using Stunfisk if you need a Flying and Rock check in one Pokemon. Thankfully for Stunfisk, there aren't really any other Pokemon in the tier that can reliably do this. However, there's better Rock checks and better Flying checks in the tier. And even then, Aggron can generally do the same thing, albeit a little more dangerously due to its 4x Ground and Fighting weaknesses. Stunfisk is a role compression Pokemon a lot like Vileplume is, but its redeeming qualities outside of that are much, much fewer than Vileplume. It should also be noted that Stunfisk is complete bait for virtually every Grass-type in the tier, especially Virizion with its great raw special bulk. And as everyone knows, Grass-types in RU are not the easiest things to wear down (Tangrowth and Amoonguss have Regen, Vileplume has Synthesis, special Virizion has Giga Drain and physical ones have Lum Berry) Stunfisk is best on defensive balance and stall and neither one of those playstyles are all that useful right now. Great role compression, but can't be used on many teams and is complete bait for Grass-types. I'd put it in C- / D rank. It checks Flying and Rock mons in one slot, but there's plenty of better options if you don't need to compress that role and its total bait for Grass-types.
 
Archeops: I can see Archeops going to B-, but that's it. Aerodactyl shouldn't be running a "Lead" set due to the high opportunity cost of using such a set. While Aero can slap Rocks onto its Life Orb set (legit set btw. it's fun) it struggles a bit with common spinners and Defoggers. The higher Speed on Aero doesn't really make a big difference for getting Rocks up and keeping them up. Scarf Flygon and Scarf Hitmonlee outspeed both and can use Defog / Rapid Spin (questionable moves on both, but bear with me) anyway. If I'm considering a suicide Rocks lead for hyper offense, I"m using Archeops. It does the job well and can ensure SR stays on the field early-game thanks to Head Smash and the low opportunity cost of using Archeops in this fashion. B- is fine, but no higher. And I wouldn't be super opposed to keeping it in C+. Just felt I needed to point out why you should be using it over Aero in terms of a "dedicated lead".

Stunfisk: I can't see this going higher than C rank tbh. You should only really consider using Stunfisk if you need a Flying and Rock check in one Pokemon. Thankfully for Stunfisk, there aren't really any other Pokemon in the tier that can reliably do this. However, there's better Rock checks and better Flying checks in the tier. And even then, Aggron can generally do the same thing, albeit a little more dangerously due to its 4x Ground and Fighting weaknesses. Stunfisk is a role compression Pokemon a lot like Vileplume is, but its redeeming qualities outside of that are much, much fewer than Vileplume. It should also be noted that Stunfisk is complete bait for virtually every Grass-type in the tier, especially Virizion with its great raw special bulk. And as everyone knows, Grass-types in RU are not the easiest things to wear down (Tangrowth and Amoonguss have Regen, Vileplume has Synthesis, special Virizion has Giga Drain and physical ones have Lum Berry) Stunfisk is best on defensive balance and stall and neither one of those playstyles are all that useful right now. Great role compression, but can't be used on many teams and is complete bait for Grass-types. I'd put it in C- / D rank. It checks Flying and Rock mons in one slot, but there's plenty of better options if you don't need to compress that role and its total bait for Grass-types.
True, but it does have sludge wave lol. Plus, it's not like it can't run a more offensive set like assault vest i suppose, or choice specs which I've had some success with. I'll split it with you and say C rank. And its static ability can be very helpful. The most important thing is that it needs to be recognized as a decent mon in this meta that checks rock, flying and electric types which are pretty prevalent in the ru tier.
 

rau

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True, but it does have sludge wave lol. Plus, it's not like it can't run a more offensive set like assault vest i suppose, or choice specs which I've had some success with. I'll split it with you and say C rank. And its static ability can be very helpful. The most important thing is that it needs to be recognized as a decent mon in this meta that checks rock, flying and electric types which are pretty prevalent in the ru tier.
Sludge Wave isn't really your best option since both Vileplume and Amoonguss are hit neutrally by it, Virizion has great special bulk, and the only way you'd get Tangrowth is if you hit it on the switch. Generally speaking, I really don't think offensive Stunfisk can be of good use over other bulky special attackers. First, you'd have to sacrifice bulk in order to do any sort of relevant damage, making you a much shakier check to the offensive mons you mentioned. Second, Stunfisk really stands out more with its role as a defensive mon, meaning that you'd pass out on valuable moves such as Stealth Rock and Toxic. There's also the fact that since you're pretty much gonna switch in and out with specs stunfisk, you're pretty much screwed over by hazards, mostly spikes, since you're forgoing stunfisk's only accessible method of recovery in leftovers. I also want to point out that pretty much every non-choiced Rock-type has at least some sort of coverage to hit Stunfisk super-effectively, so it's a safe bet to say you'll want all the bulk you can get. As EonX mentioned, the typing's cool and all, but there're plenty other options if you don't need all the compression.
 
Archeops: I can see Archeops going to B-, but that's it. Aerodactyl shouldn't be running a "Lead" set due to the high opportunity cost of using such a set. While Aero can slap Rocks onto its Life Orb set (legit set btw. it's fun) it struggles a bit with common spinners and Defoggers. The higher Speed on Aero doesn't really make a big difference for getting Rocks up and keeping them up. Scarf Flygon and Scarf Hitmonlee outspeed both and can use Defog / Rapid Spin (questionable moves on both, but bear with me) anyway. If I'm considering a suicide Rocks lead for hyper offense, I"m using Archeops. It does the job well and can ensure SR stays on the field early-game thanks to Head Smash and the low opportunity cost of using Archeops in this fashion. B- is fine, but no higher. And I wouldn't be super opposed to keeping it in C+. Just felt I needed to point out why you should be using it over Aero in terms of a "dedicated lead".
While I agree Lead Aerodactyl is pretty subpar in comparison to the other sets Aerodactyl can run like LO, I wouldn't say Archeops should move up because of this. With hazard removal being easier than ever with the introduction of Blastoise in the tier, suicide leads have only gotten worse, and suicide leads that can only get up one hazard I feel are very mediocre as you can just have a bulky SRer like Steelix, Rhyperior or Torterra that can stay alive throughout the game and get up hazards when said hazard removers are gone, while with a suicide lead like Archeops, you can't do that. And like I said before, if you are really concerned about wanting your SR staying up, you can just run Pressure Aerodactyl with Double Edge that has the same effect as Head Smash from Defeatist Archeops with very similar damage, because while yes Suicide Lead Aero is meh, it still acts the same way as Archeops, just without Endeavor, which is Archeops only selling point. C+ is fine for Archeops imo.
 

Ping_Pong_Along

Bitches love underscores
...Stunfisk is best on defensive balance and stall and neither one of those playstyles are all that useful right now.
I wouldn't consider Stunfisk to be great on stall even if it were a better playstyle in this meta. I'd much rather use Mega Steelix to check Tyrantrum and Fletchinder. Paralysis can be a detriment against mons you'd rather poison or burn, its sweet SpD is hampered by its typing, and most mons have a coverage attack for it. Its higher HP also means its getting less wish recovery than Mega Steelix. Not to mention its weak SpA. Stunfisk is a fun mon to try to make work, but it's just so outclassed. Keeping Water types from switching in safely is something I guess, but its weakness to Water attacks really cuts down on its usefulness. The only scenario where I'd prefer Stunfisk on stall is against Accelgor since it survives Final Gambit. I'd say keep Stunfisk Unranked, D at the most.
 
I really don't see a reason to rank Stunfisk, to be honest. It's outclassed by M Steelix as a Flying/Rock Check, it can't deal moderate damage, and it's unfortunately weak to some of the most common types in RU. Paralysis isn't great on defence-based teams, where you would more likely use Stunfisk, because you don't desperately need to outspeed things, and burn would be more useful anyways, for both physical crippling and chip damage. Don't bother ranking this.
 
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