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Pokémon Salamence

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escarlata said:
For the most part, we are always searching for a reason why we want to use Salamence OVER the other dragons, but neglecting the fact that we can use it WITH them, much like TalonRaptor. Salamence just happens to be able to lure out and destroy a lot of stuff that Charizard has problem getting past like bulky grounds, Heatran (if no EQ on Xard), and has just the movepool to smash them with. in conjunction, this also allows Charizard to free up that last slot for Roost or SD for double dancing. I wasn't able to get replays due to the ladder reset, but I will upload some soon.
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The thing is that, unless you are using a DragMag team, there are already much better Dragon-types to pair with Mega Char X than Salamence, such as Garchomp, Kyurem-B, and Dragonite. Not to mention that Salamence can't even do anything significant to some of the most common answers to Mega Char X, such as Azumarill and Hippowdon, where the other Dragon-types have more general utility and are harder to wall.

The best bet of Salemence in OU is either as a defensive Defog user that can beat the common SR setters, or at least prevent them from switching in, or as a Scarf user on DragMag teams, which even though much less effective this gen, are still viable.
 
alexwolf said:
The thing is that, unless you are using a DragMag team, there are already much better Dragon-types to pair with Mega Char X than Salamence, such as Garchomp, Kyurem-B, and Dragonite. Not to mention that Salamence can't even do anything significant to some of the most common answers to Mega Char X, such as Azumarill and Hippowdon, where the other Dragon-types have more general utility and are harder to wall.

The best bet of Salemence in OU is either as a defensive Defog user that can beat the common SR setters, or at least prevent them from switching in, or as a Scarf user on DragMag teams, which even though much less effective this gen, are still viable.
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It actually does take out Hippowdon with Dragon Claw followed by Hydro Pump, that is, if you run Hydro Pump. DDmence with Hydro Pump instead of Fire Blast lures in Hippowdon, and Landorus-T while Xard is able to take on those threats that are missed out without Fire Blast. The only thing that is not covered is Azumarill, who still gets 2 hitted by anything that is not Dragon Claw. One thing about Salamence that other dragons cannot do is its ability to actually KO the aforesaid grounds without having to even to predict the switch because it can score that KO with a combination of Dragon Claw > Hydro Pump, while other dragons have to resort to landing 2 Aqua Tails on the switch, which eases the prediction. I think I mentioned in a previous post that most teams I see tend not to carry more than one from within Ferrothorn/Scizor/Skarm/Landous-T/Hippowdon, so this core of DDmence + DDXard becomes quite difficult to wall if the appropriate sweeper in the situation is allowed to set up. Overall, I find that this forms a core like that of SalaQuaza in Gen IV, except with an arguably better type synergy.

Of course we have to consider that it does face competition from other dragons to pair with Xard, but a key advantage it has over them is that it really isn't going out of its way to actually have that offensive synergy with Xard, i.e. it still has very good type coverage without Fire Blast, to pull off a sweep which other dragons have a harder time with. Salamence basically has the lowest degree of 4MSS among other dragons which makes it still usable and not just being a raw support for Xard.
 
Hello guys. I've been a MixMence user in Singles for 6 years now and with the 6th gen changes I'm seriously considering removing Fire Blast in favor of Heat Wave.

But I kinda fail at recognizing which computations to take into account for; the only thing I have in mind right now is considering how Heat Wave does better against 252/0 Mawilite, but aside from that I'm not sure if the accuracy of Heat Wave is better or the extra power of Fire Blast is. Can someone help?

On that note, I'm glad to see MixMence still wrecking teams apart even after 2 generations. Whoever decided to give it Outrage should be given a medal (but I'm still kinda frustrated at the ban during 4th gen haha)

Also if I may add,

Right now it looks like Intimidate on MixMence is a better choice. In particular it helps against Talonflame, a mon running rampant in the current metagame. Forcing something to switch is always a good thing for MixMence. My teams normally have no proper Talonflame counter but my Salamence is doing a good job of preventing my team from getting run over by it at least, and buy me time to keep SR on the opponents' field since Salamence is scary enough to make spinners think twice about doing stuff.

EDIT:

Basically, I'm wondering what Mence can do this Generation that it's Dragon Brethren can't.
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Intimidate.

If you're not using Salamence for its ability to keep switching in against a good deal of physical attackers (minus Mamoswine obvs) while still maintaining its attacking capabilities then you're really better off using either Dragonite or Charizard. With the OU teams now built to not take IntiMence into account, the blue dragon can still get away with some pretty stupid stuff just because people aren't ready for it like the previous generations.

Moxie is still viable but it needs waaaaay more support now than the previous generation. The increase of Steel-types and introduction of Fairy means Salamence can no longer run over teams, but thankfully Fairy-types and Steel-types are both handled quite well by Fire-types (barring Azumarill, which you should really just be hitting neutral throughout the course of the match anyway) and it's actually not impossible to set up the floor for DDMence shenanigans.
 
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I'll be testing this upon Daylight, but I'd like some opinion on the SalaStall set. Still effective, or does the fairies stop it from working as well? It could be useful for bluffing choice items while setting up in their face, but would probably need some additional team suppport. Still, Defog can be listed to it's arsenal. Opinions please.
 
Welp, been a while since I posted this, may as well do some updates.
Kairyu_Gen1 said:
I'm not even sure if we should include the DD set. Even with a life orb, it barely does more damage Charizard X, and Charizard has so much better STAB and immunity to burn and stuff.
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I agree for the most part, but I'm gonna keep it up there since some people may want another Mega or the Fighting resist, at which point Salamence is still a decent choice.
escarlata said:
Aqua Tail should not even be considered on the DD set imo. Hydro Pump is that much better than Aqua Tail because Dragon Claw + Hydro Pump is a clean 2HKO on Hippowdon, Gliscor, Lando-T, while even +1 Aqua Tail need you to nail them on the switch to get those KO, and it is one of the few things that Salamence can actually do that is not outdone by other dragons, especially against the likes of Lando-T against whom you still manage to net a nett +0 Atk thanks to Moxie essentially cancelling Intimidate, which would have hindered by other dragons.
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Yeah, I was just kinda going for a strong neutral STAB that hits stuff that would otherwise take Mence pretty well, but the only things Aqua Tail seems to hit harder are going to be hit by your dragon STAB anyways, derp. Edited OP.
guustavooo said:
Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie / Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 64 Atk / 192 SAtk
Rash Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
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Added to OP, with a slash for Intimidate based on Kairyu_Gen1's opinion.

That's that for now, I'm saving my next post for an RMT (500 posts, woo!) so it'll be however long that takes to finish.

Good stuff so far guys!
 
What about a full tank Salamence set up? I've been running this with decent success. My showdown rating is rather modest (~1500) but it has done wonders for me against annoying things like Talonflame, Aegislash, Megaluke (who is now banned).

Salamence Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Hydro Pump

Mainly used to switch in on physical attacks and hit back hard. Although its one of the more offensively oriented dragons, it has rather impressive defensive stats, and Intimidate gives it even more immediate physical bulk - it will tank any Flare Blitz, Close Combat, U-Turn. Can switch into Earthquakes too, then switch into something else when threatened with Ice Punch/Stone Edge. Hydro hits Talonflame/Excadrill, Fire Blast hits Aegislash/Ferro/Skarmory, Dragon Pulse takes off a nice chunk if you anticipate a switch into Rotom-W. Since he's special and tank, he can tank Burn/Para if needed. 0 attack IV's since Pranksters might expect physical mence and opt for Foul Play, in this regard he is also nice against Klefki. The element of surprise is also nice since you can bluff people into switching out thinking you want to set up. The biggest problem is that, for a tank, Mence is weak to SR, and has trouble walling pokemon with good coverage (mixed attackers or guys with Ice Punch). Why not Dragonite? Because Dnite does not have Intimidate and hits weaker on the special side, functions better as a Dancer. Why not Goodra? Physically softer and lacks recovery. But overall if you need a guy to deal with Talonflame or tank some Close Combats, Salamence is your guy.
 
I'm so dissapointed that salamence is so easily countered. Such a shame all that awesome coverage from last gen goes to shit this gen. Oh well least it didn't get knocked to uu like metagross and haxorus.
 
Has anyone attempted running a Bulky DD Set similar to Gyara I mean Mence has higher attack and speed so it can invest in a bit more bulk as well as having better coverage.
 
Arceus_17 said:
I've been using this exact same set except with Defog in Hydro Pump's place. I strongly recommend it.
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Any reason for Defog? Hydro Pump is pretty nice for Talonflame and Gligar. Does a decent chunk to Heatran too since Mence can switch in on burn or any of his STABS.
Giometry said:
Has anyone attempted running a Bulky DD Set similar to Gyara I mean Mence has higher attack and speed so it can invest in a bit more bulk as well as having better coverage.
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Dragonite is the king of bulky DD. Intimidate is nice but Multiscale is just way too good for setting up, even without any defense investment.
 
it seems like bulky latios or hydreigon would outperform that set. 100 spa isn't bad, but hydreigon has 125 and the exact same coverage.
 
Hydro Pump lost power, though. It's only a small amount stronger than Surf, but that accuracy is still pretty bad. In most cases it's not wroth running.

Hydreigon does carry that 4x fairy weakness, however, sala isn't going to be taking any more than 2 of those anyway, so it isn't something of major concern.

while Hyredigon does carry that Fight weakness, Fairy Types are all over the place, making fight types a little less common bar perhaps Conk, who didn't have incredible usage anyway.

Sala does have more bulk but that's not to say Hydreigon doesn't have any. It can still take good number of hits dependent on you're spread.

Sala does mixed and Physical sets much better than Hydreigon, but Hydreigon's special side hits much harder.
 
its a shame this mon is so shit, its really my favorite

but in an attempt to revive this thread, i will post my opinions


It's really outclassed at everything it does, from DD to scarf. So the best way to use it is in conjunction with other dragons-but there are so many better dragon types, its like salamence doesn't even exist anymore. Scarf set is way to niche to even consider using, mixmence is done 30x better by Kyurem-B, DD sweeper is done better by Zard X, Dragonite, and many others, scarf is outclassed because chomp exists, and wishmence is way too strange for any team to consider using. So what niche does salamence have? Thats for you to decide. peace.
 
Smog Frog said:
its a shame this mon is so shit, its really my favorite

but in an attempt to revive this thread, i will post my opinions


It's really outclassed at everything it does, from DD to scarf. So the best way to use it is in conjunction with other dragons-but there are so many better dragon types, its like salamence doesn't even exist anymore. Scarf set is way to niche to even consider using, mixmence is done 30x better by Kyurem-B, DD sweeper is done better by Zard X, Dragonite, and many others, scarf is outclassed because chomp exists, and wishmence is way too strange for any team to consider using. So what niche does salamence have? Thats for you to decide. peace.
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I think that the scarf set with moxie is still viable, but you pretty much need Magenezone as a teamate as well as Zard X. Sure it requires a lot of support, but I think this could be the only niche Salamence has
 
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