SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

[Project_Mars]

So basically Ubers has to deal with teams running what is effectively 5 Zacians at the cost of 2 Pokemon holding Leppa Berry.
Can’t wait Ho-oh to learn this in the DLC too.

Keep in mind that:
A. Revived 'mons come back with 50% health.
B. The two users have 70/70/60/ Defenses with 105 Speed (Pawmot) and 75/85/100 Defenses with 45 Speed (Rabsca).

I feel like getting the move off more than once a game per 'mon in Ubers would be a miracle, heck Rabsca may get KO'd before it could even use it.

 

[Mescal]

I'm curious to hear more thoughtful analysis on Wo-Chien. While it's clearly not broken like some (all?) of its kin, its kit is still interesting. I do realize it sports an unfortunate type with a host of weaknesses, but I'm curious to see what people genuinely think of its potential sets.

One of the most glaring things is its lack of 50% recovery move. Strength Sap could have possibly put this on more notice. Recover feels like it was made for this Pokemon (as a snail and all), but... GF decided to give Chien-Pao Recover of all things. And it somehow missed out on Synthesis as well. Leech Seed, Ingrain, Giga Drain, and Rest are all it has at its disposal for recovery.

85/85/100/95/135/70 definitely shows it has some bulk, and its Defense is better than it looks coupled with its ability.

Some of its more noteworthy tools include:

• Ruination (Super Fang / Nature's Madness variant)
• Knock Off
• Giga Drain
• Dark Pulse
• Trailblaze
• Zen Headbutt
• Body Press
• Snarl
• Power Whip
• Hex (w/ Stun Spore)
• Pollen Puff
• Growth (this interests me in particular with sun teams, mostly because Wo-Chien has useable Attack & Special Attack and a decent selection of mixed moves in its move pool)
• Taunt
• Encore
• Screens
• Scary Face
• Tickle
• Sunny Day & Rain Dance

I'm not sure what the majority consensus is on which Pokemon would best utilize Terastallizing (whether those that appreciate the extra boost to their STABs or others that use it to be more defensive). But Wo-Chien seems like a potentially interesting mon to Terastallize either into another type entirely or at least go mono Grass or Dark to lose its host of weaknesses and icky x4 U-Turn weakness.

At the end of the day, though it's not as monstrous as the other Ruinous legendaries, Wo-Chien still has a beefy stat line with an interesting enough kit to warrant usage somewhere fun. I'm interested in what sort of teams it fits best and potential teammates that it synergizes with.

I'm just so struck by this Pokemon's design and I'm determined to explore team comps with it.

 

[Jaetheho]

Keep in mind that:
A. Revived 'mons come back with 50% health.
B. The two users have 70/70/60/ Defenses with 105 Speed (Pawmot) and 75/85/100 Defenses with 45 Speed (Rabsca).

I feel like getting the move off more than once a game per 'mon in Ubers would be a miracle, heck Rabsca may get KO'd before it could even use it.

I think Pawmot with volt absorb might be able to get it off with some ease since we might see some specs Miraidon running around. But two? That's pushing it and is probably for the memes

 

[The Crusade]

I'm curious to hear more thoughtful analysis on Wo-Chien. While it's clearly not broken like some (all?) of its kin, its kit is still interesting. I do realize it sports an unfortunate type with a host of weaknesses, but I'm curious to see what people genuinely think of its potential sets.

One of the most glaring things is its lack of 50% recovery move. Strength Sap could have possibly put this on more notice. Recover feels like it was made for this Pokemon (as a snail and all), but... GF decided to give Chien-Pao Recover of all things. And it somehow missed out on Synthesis as well. Leech Seed, Ingrain, Giga Drain, and Rest are all it has at its disposal for recovery.

85/85/100/95/135/70 definitely shows it has some bulk, and its Defense is better than it looks coupled with its ability.

Some of its more noteworthy tools include:

• Ruination (Super Fang / Nature's Madness variant)
• Knock Off
• Giga Drain
• Dark Pulse
• Trailblaze
• Zen Headbutt
• Body Press
• Snarl
• Power Whip
• Hex (w/ Stun Spore)
• Pollen Puff
• Growth (this interests me in particular with sun teams, mostly because Wo-Chien has useable Attack & Special Attack and a decent selection of mixed moves in its move pool)
• Taunt
• Encore
• Screens
• Scary Face
• Tickle
• Sunny Day & Rain Dance

I'm not sure what the majority consensus is on which Pokemon would best utilize Terastallizing (whether those that appreciate the extra boost to their STABs or others that use it to be more defensive). But Wo-Chien seems like a potentially interesting mon to Terastallize either into another type entirely or at least go mono Grass or Dark to lose its host of weaknesses and icky x4 U-Turn weakness.

At the end of the day, though it's not as monstrous as the other Ruinous legendaries, Wo-Chien still has a beefy stat line with an interesting enough kit to warrant usage somewhere fun. I'm interested in what sort of teams it fits best and potential teammates that it synergizes with.

I'm just so struck by this Pokemon's design and I'm determined to explore team comps with it.

Wo-Chien is absolutely my favorite of the bunch, and while it may wind up sucking harder than Malaconda in OU-level singles, I can definitely see it causing some headache in doubles with Snarl + Tablets of Ruin. It's not a huge threat in its own right, but it's looking like a debuff machine that could ease something more threatening onto the field just by slashing offenses left and right. This is to say nothing of Screens, Encore, statuses, and Pollen Puff(!) for additional support. Just pair it with a strong attacker that doesn't mind the -Atk aura (maybe Gholdengo or one of the cloud genies—all their signature moves are spreads) and go crazy.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Lmao I can buy Leftovers for 20k dollarydoos after the third badge

This game feels like a romhack in terms of QoL

 

[Negative Charge]

From Centro - Previously all Pokémon had a singular Form ID value. For example, regional variants and gender differences both are forms in past generations.

However, starting with Gen 9 we now have 3 values:

- Form ID
- Subform ID
- Regional Variant ID

Does this mean we can abandon hard species clause and move to form clause? There’s an ingame value that we can reference. The number of regional variants continues to grow and I genuinely don’t understand at this point why tauros and tauros-p can’t be on the same team.

 

[Pushinguplilacs]

Lmao I can buy Leftovers for 20k dollarydoos after the third badge

This game feels like a romhack in terms of QoL

Maybe nintendo finally learned something from sending all those cease desist letters to fan game creators.

 

[Avira]

From Centro - Previously all Pokémon had a singular Form ID value. For example, regional variants and gender differences both are forms in past generations.

However, starting with Gen 9 we now have 3 values:

- Form ID
- Subform ID
- Regional Variant ID

Does this mean we can abandon hard species clause and move to form clause? There’s an ingame value that we can reference. The number of regional variants continues to grow and I genuinely don’t understand at this point why tauros and tauros-p can’t be on the same team.

If you feel strongly about this, you should PM Finchinator since he's the tiering leader for OU. Or maybe PMing chaos, the creator of Smogon, might be more appropriate. I don't know how active chaos is anymore, but he did intervene to have Mega Rayquaza banned from Ubers in Gen 7, and it was chaos that ABR went to to temporarily remove Sleep Clause at the start of Gen 8, so concerns with breaking previous precedent should perhaps be directed at him.

Form clause allowing for more flexibility in building could be a good thing.

 

[Yuy]

Without meaningful breeding you can't get better Pokemon. Everyone is essentially on a level playing field. This is going off topic anyways so may as well end it there.

This reminds me of hardcore MMO players playing old grindy Korean games on private servers. There's always an argument to keep exp rates low and keep the game a challenge, while other people want exp rates boosted or custom high spawn areas to grind levels so they can experience the content. The hardcore's will always want one thing, and everyone else going with the wave will want another.

The funny thing is Shoddy Battle and PS! are an inherently level playing field and no one cares about the lack of grinding in that. Plus 90% of the mons you face online are from pkhex or were born from edited perfect parents to begin with.

Imo things like the gen twitch channels put the accessibility over the top and crap like 20k mints and caps make everything simple anyway. I don't think the grind has been as hardcore as people remember for quite sometime now.

 

[Pushinguplilacs]

Looking at the new tauros I believe they may have some value in vgc tbh. Namely because the biggest intimidate user died.

The water/fighting Tauros is the most interesting one to note, but normal tauros also holds the normal type which is something fairly scarce right now so even normal tauros could be of value.

normal tauros: 75/100/95/40/70/110

all other tauros: 75/110/105/30/70/100

Water tauros has something I'm pretty surprised about: Aqua jet and enough coverage to run an assault vest set.

Probably not going to be a big choice but could be an interesting niche choice.

To further the intimidate topic these are our intimidate users this gen:

currently in game: Arcanine, Gyarados, Masquerain, qwilfish, evolite stantler, Salamence, Staraptor, Luxray, Krookodile, Squakability, Mabosstiff

Home exclusive: Normal tauros (probably?), Hisuian Arcanine, Wydeer, Overqwil, Lando-T

Mabosstiff also intrigues me as an intimidate user but thats a whole post in itself.

 

[Shujinkō]

This reminds me that I recently saw on Bulbapedia that they replaced the Park Ball's index number (for the stored ball in pokemon data) with the Strange Ball for some reason. I didn't even know it was there to begin with.
View attachment 465393

Also one of the ingame school classes has given us an official answer to the whole super stab tera multiplier debate. It is Adaptability. Thank you school.
View attachment 465389

EDIT: Also apparently you can give your eggs to the school instead of hatching them but I haven't heard much else about that.

This is why you go to school folks.

 

[escarlata]

If we ever get Jirachi in SV, I’m really hyped to use the new punching item on it.

Pads Jirachi is already something I’m running on teams to mess with Ferrothorn and Static Zapdos with the elemental punches, and because Meteor Mash is also a punching move, Rachi can even run it with or over Iron Head for funny stuff.

 

[Worldie]

Does this mean we can abandon hard species clause and move to form clause? There’s an ingame value that we can reference. The number of regional variants continues to grow and I genuinely don’t understand at this point why tauros and tauros-p can’t be on the same team.

Tbh that's actually just a regular cartridge rule.

And it's as simple as "can only have one of species that share a pokedex number".

 

[AmbientDinosaur]

It seems they have completely removed the out of battle effects of abilities, likely to get rid of any inconsistency in their descriptions. I guess they moved it all to sandwich powers.

I hope this doesn't mean Synchronize no longer works either. Then again, in SwSh Synchronize wasn't an overworld effect, but rather a battle initiation effect. So hopefully not gone?

 

[The N@me User]

Do we know how much Sharpness boosts by? Heard 50%, but that seems a bit high with what Iron Fist, Tough Claws, and Sheer Force boost.

Would've assumed 20%.

 

[Eclairius]

Do we know how much Sharpness boosts by? Heard 50%, but that seems a bit high with what Iron Fist, Tough Claws, and Sheer Force boost.

Would've assumed 20%.

The people who tested it in the research thread landed on 50%.
If that seems weird to you, remember that Mega Launcher is also 50% and boost moves with similar BP.

 

[reaverz]

There are some interesting things to be gleaned from the internal index numbers of the new Pokémon and materials. Looking at them more closely, I believe that the Pokémon listed after the cover legendaries might have been added late in the development of these titles. This includes the Tinkatink line, Charcadet line, Toedscool line, Paldean Wooper line, Kingambit, and Annihilape.

The index numbers of the materials list is divided into distinct groups that include older Pokémon (with materials listed in National Dex order for those returning Pokémon in the Paldea Dex), then it jumps a few spaces and lists materials belonging to the new Pokémon (only broken up by a couple of spaces in the middle). Here it seemingly ends, however the list jumps about 20 index spaces and finally has the materials for Tinkatink, Charcadet, Toedscool, and Wooper in their own small group that’s separated from the rest.

The fact that the Tentacool line is not included also lends credence to the idea that the Toedscool line was a late addition, since Diglett and Wiglett both have their materials listed in the group you would expect. What’s more, the Toedscool line’s signature ability is currently the final ability in index order. It’s pretty clear-cut, at least to me.

The suggestion that Paldean Wooper (and the Johto variant as well) was probably added late is an especially strange one given how “early” it was revealed in marketing, but I guess GameFreak wanted a Paldean regional variant to show off that was less complicated or “intense” than Tauros. Likewise, Charcadet and its evolutions were likely added in order to have new flashy and obvious version-exclusives to advertise, what with the colors of its two evolutions.

Something else that’s definitely interesting in the index list of the materials are the two blank spaces between the marerials for Pawmi and Wattrel. This might suggest that there may have been two new Pokémon lines that were scrapped at some point in development. Who knows, perhaps we’ll see these two unused materials index number spots or some of those between Ghimmigoul and Tintatink’s materials filled in when DLC finally drops.

 

[Jaetheho]

The people who tested it in the research thread landed on 50%.
If that seems weird to you, remember that Mega Launcher is also 50% and boost moves with similar BP.

Also strong jaw, which is slightly more relevant than mega launcher.

It seems sharpness and strong jaw are 50% as the moves they typically boost are "second class", often options you don't run on Pokémon without external boosts

 

[The N@me User]

The people who tested it in the research thread landed on 50%.
If that seems weird to you, remember that Mega Launcher is also 50% and boost moves with similar BP.

Don't get me wrong, I've basically theorymon'd this exact ability before, and wanted nothing more than exactly that, but 112 BP Razor Shells with 50% Defense drops is just funny

 

[Eclairius]

Don't get me wrong, I've basically theorymon'd this exact ability before, and wanted nothing more than exactly that, but 112 BP Razor Shells with 50% Defense drops is just funny

Nothing quite like dropping a 97BP move and setting up spikes simultaneously.

 

[Shujinkō]

Welp, there you go.

 

[Hematite]

-Doesn't restore PP (it works the same as Revive)
-Can't check because I only have one but I guess so
-Absolutely

Thank god Pawmot doesn't learn Recycle!

Hi!! It's awesome that you're testing this!!! Is there any chance I could ask one more question of you?
How is the revived Pokémon selected? Does it always revive the Pokémon that fainted most recently, always the Pokémon that fainted first, or something else (like the chance to select a Pokémon mid-turn like when using a pivoting move)?
My bet has been on "the Pokémon that fainted most recently" since the move leaked, but I would be really interested in confirmation on that if you're able!

 

[Worldie]

Welp, there you go.
View attachment 465447

So we basically have Viriziobakion, and Suikoutei, got it.

(ngl I love this "fusion" idea, I am very curious of what weird name they'll give them, since even though we dub them as "paradox suicune" and "paradox virizion" it's pretty clear they are their own thing like the various other paradoxes having their own names)

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Welp, there you go.
View attachment 465447

"Surely imagining this monstrosity won't cause further problems down the line for us"

Hi!! It's awesome that you're testing this!!! Is there any chance I could ask one more question of you?
How is the revived Pokémon selected? Does it always revive the Pokémon that fainted most recently, always the Pokémon that fainted first, or something else (like the chance to select a Pokémon mid-turn like when using a pivoting move)?
My bet has been on "the Pokémon that fainted most recently" since the move leaked, but I would be really interested in confirmation on that if you're able!

You use the move, the animation plays, then the game shows your party and lets you select the pokemon to be revived. And yes, I was surprised at that.

 

[Nintenfreak]

There are some interesting things to be gleaned from the internal index numbers of the new Pokémon and materials. Looking at them more closely, I believe that the Pokémon listed after the cover legendaries might have been added late in the development of these titles. This includes the Tinkatink line, Charcadet line, Toedscool line, Paldean Wooper line, Kingambit, and Annihilape.

The index numbers of the materials list is divided into distinct groups that include older Pokémon (with materials listed in National Dex order for those returning Pokémon in the Paldea Dex), then it jumps a few spaces and lists materials belonging to the new Pokémon (only broken up by a couple of spaces in the middle). Here it seemingly ends, however the list jumps about 20 index spaces and finally has the materials for Tinkatink, Charcadet, Toedscool, and Wooper in their own small group that’s separated from the rest.

The fact that the Tentacool line is not included also lends credence to the idea that the Toedscool line was a late addition, since Diglett and Wiglett both have their materials listed in the group you would expect. What’s more, the Toedscool line’s signature ability is currently the final ability in index order. It’s pretty clear-cut, at least to me.

The suggestion that Paldean Wooper (and the Johto variant as well) was probably added late is an especially strange one given how “early” it was revealed in marketing, but I guess GameFreak wanted a Paldean regional variant to show off that was less complicated or “intense” than Tauros. Likewise, Charcadet and its evolutions were likely added in order to have new flashy and obvious version-exclusives to advertise, what with the colors of its two evolutions.

Something else that’s definitely interesting in the index list of the materials are the two blank spaces between the marerials for Pawmi and Wattrel. This might suggest that there may have been two new Pokémon lines that were scrapped at some point in development. Who knows, perhaps we’ll see these two unused materials index number spots or some of those between Ghimmigoul and Tintatink’s materials filled in when DLC finally drops.

I suspsect you're probably correct since we were made aware of the existence of the combined Beast and Iron Justice by leakers who were working on the game in some aspect. I won't be surprised if some other new Pokemon would held off for DLC either considering they very much made the game with it in mind this time.