Format Discussion Scarlet/Violet Random Battle Sets

[Volsur]

Seems a bit too similar to Wyrdeer, maybe a bit bulkier but with meh utility to take advantage of it(Psynoise is Fari-only) and worse setup than Girafarig(CM and Curse are both slower than NP, special attack is slightly lower and Curse lowers speed)

Could work, seems like in most cases the evo is better though.

 

[35Q71N]

Posting here for Lorby_ , who opened a thread by mistake

 

[Volsur]

Seems a bit too similar to Wyrdeer, maybe a bit bulkier but with meh utility to take advantage of it(Psynoise is Fari-only) and worse setup than Girafarig(CM and Curse are both slower than NP, special attack is slightly lower and Curse lowers speed)

Could work, seems like in most cases the evo is better though.

After some discussion, Stantler will be added with two sets to start with. Thank you for the suggestion!

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

I'm open to expanding boots generation, but I'd need more generalized conditions than just "deoxys-speed". If anyone has ideas, feel free to post them.

 

[lesllamas]

I'm open to expanding boots generation, but I'd need more generalized conditions than just "deoxys-speed". If anyone has ideas, feel free to post them.

I'm not sure if this makes any sense, but would it be possible to classify a role based on bulk relative to speed? Like leftovers never generates over HDB if a mon's speed is >X amount and summed HP+DEF+SPDEF is <Y amount? Not sure if this would affect any other mons, but I feel like the principle is generally sound (super fast frail mons would never want lefties over HDB if those are the two possible choices).

 

[lesllamas]

Recently an opponent had Calm Mind + Volt Switch Jolteon with HDB. I don't think I've seen this set before--is it intentional that HDB generates for that set? It seems a bit counterintuitive to have Calm Mind go along with Volt Switch + HDB. Like, I think Volt Switch + HDB is generally a good concept, but it seems a bit in conflict with a Calm Mind set? I don't have a specific complaint, but was wondering what the thinking behind it is.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Recently an opponent had Calm Mind + Volt Switch Jolteon with HDB. I don't think I've seen this set before--is it intentional that HDB generates for that set? It seems a bit counterintuitive to have Calm Mind go along with Volt Switch + HDB. Like, I think Volt Switch + HDB is generally a good concept, but it seems a bit in conflict with a Calm Mind set? I don't have a specific complaint, but was wondering what the thinking behind it is.

This is new and intentional. It's a hybrid set that can pivot and set up when needed.

 

[quacksand]

I recently had a set for Staraptor that was Choice Band Double Edge/Brave Bird/U-turn/Quick Attack. Double-Edge and Brave Bird have nearly the same coverage except that Double-Edge has neutral coverage on Electric types and Brave Bird can hit ghost types for neutral damage. The only advantage of having Double-Edge that I can note easily is that it allows easy two-shots on potential checks like Intimidate Luxray and Pincurchin:

Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 84 HP / 84 Def Pincurchin: 174-205 (67.4 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Luxray: 151-178 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

However, if Staraptor is scarfed, this calc trades better:
-1 Lvl 79 84 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Luxray: 102-120 (35.9 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 84 HP / 84 Def Pincurchin: 117-138 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


The problem with this set is that it is now completely walled by rock or steel types, which are more prevalent than defensive electric types.
Lvl 79 84 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 87 84 HP / 84 Def Golem: 51-61 (18.1 - 21.7%) -- possible 5HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 86 84 HP / 84 Def Copperajah: 127-150 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 89 84 HP / 84 Def Perrserker: 93-111 (34.5 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def Arcanine-Hisui: 124-147 (44.2 - 52.5%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO (Arcanine-H gets Morning Sun and is faster)
Lvl 79 84 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def Heatran: 67-79 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 91 84 HP / 84 Def Stonjourner: 72-85 (21.8 - 25.7%) -- 2.1% chance to 4HKO

versus a Close Combat set
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 87 84 HP / 84 Def Golem: 174-206 (61.9 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 86 84 HP / 84 Def Copperajah: 282-334 (80.5 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (chance at OHKO after spikes)
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 89 84 HP / 84 Def Perrserker: 208-246 (77.3 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (chance at OHKO after spikes)
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def Arcanine-Hisui: 278-328 (99.2 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def Heatran: 150-178 (54.9 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 91 84 HP / 84 Def Stonjourner: 160-190 (48.4 - 57.5%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

The clearest problem with this is that Rock and Steel types usually have access to Stealth Rock, which makes it much easier to chip down Staraptor. In essence, I don't think that a better type matchup against defensive electric types justifies a worse matchup against steel and rock types, especially when brave bird has similar coverage against almost everything else.

 

[RainListener]

Give Regice Ice Body when it has a snow setter as a teammate. Clear Body is not that useful because it always runs boots.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

I recently had a set for Staraptor that was Choice Band Double Edge/Brave Bird/U-turn/Quick Attack. Double-Edge and Brave Bird have nearly the same coverage except that Double-Edge has neutral coverage on Electric types and Brave Bird can hit ghost types for neutral damage. The only advantage of having Double-Edge that I can note easily is that it allows easy two-shots on potential checks like Intimidate Luxray and Pincurchin:

Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 84 HP / 84 Def Pincurchin: 174-205 (67.4 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Luxray: 151-178 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

However, if Staraptor is scarfed, this calc trades better:
-1 Lvl 79 84 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Luxray: 102-120 (35.9 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 84 HP / 84 Def Pincurchin: 117-138 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


The problem with this set is that it is now completely walled by rock or steel types, which are more prevalent than defensive electric types.
Lvl 79 84 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 87 84 HP / 84 Def Golem: 51-61 (18.1 - 21.7%) -- possible 5HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 86 84 HP / 84 Def Copperajah: 127-150 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 89 84 HP / 84 Def Perrserker: 93-111 (34.5 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def Arcanine-Hisui: 124-147 (44.2 - 52.5%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO (Arcanine-H gets Morning Sun and is faster)
Lvl 79 84 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def Heatran: 67-79 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. Lvl 91 84 HP / 84 Def Stonjourner: 72-85 (21.8 - 25.7%) -- 2.1% chance to 4HKO

versus a Close Combat set
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 87 84 HP / 84 Def Golem: 174-206 (61.9 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 86 84 HP / 84 Def Copperajah: 282-334 (80.5 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (chance at OHKO after spikes)
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 89 84 HP / 84 Def Perrserker: 208-246 (77.3 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (chance at OHKO after spikes)
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def Arcanine-Hisui: 278-328 (99.2 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 79 84 HP / 84 Def Heatran: 150-178 (54.9 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 79 84 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. Lvl 91 84 HP / 84 Def Stonjourner: 160-190 (48.4 - 57.5%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

The clearest problem with this is that Rock and Steel types usually have access to Stealth Rock, which makes it much easier to chip down Staraptor. In essence, I don't think that a better type matchup against defensive electric types justifies a worse matchup against steel and rock types, especially when brave bird has similar coverage against almost everything else.

we've actually tried enforcing Close Combat on Staraptor and it performed worse statistically, so we reverted it.

 

[Tenim]

we've actually tried enforcing Close Combat on Staraptor and it performed worse statistically, so we reverted it.

This reply makes complete sense, but it also makes me wonder if trialling a range of coverage options instead of just CC is worth doing?
For example knock off on the banded set would be more useful than two different names for brave bird, e.g. guaranteed progress when opponent is considering a switch due to conserving a low HP mon/ predicting a u-turn.
For scarf I'd even argue final gambit makes more sense than dedge, it covers defensive teras, the bulky setup sweeper/ID meta which is so hard to deal with, trailblaze/aqua step/moxie sets etc. and generally is high tempo

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

This reply makes complete sense, but it also makes me wonder if trialling a range of coverage options instead of just CC is worth doing?
For example knock off on the banded set would be more useful than two different names for brave bird, e.g. guaranteed progress when opponent is considering a switch due to conserving a low HP mon/ predicting a u-turn.
For scarf I'd even argue final gambit makes more sense than dedge, it covers defensive teras, the bulky setup sweeper/ID meta which is so hard to deal with, trailblaze/aqua step/moxie sets etc. and generally is high tempo

The issue is that it isn't a "banded set" as much as it's the one staraptor set that happened to roll these four moves out of its five available. Scarf can generate too with this movepool when it doesn't roll Quick Attack. Unless we completely remove double edge (which I'm not interested in), all adding Knock Off will do is increase the rate of Scarf and allow CC-less even more often.

 

[lesllamas]

Has any consideration been given to having Overcoat as the ability for Revavroom instead of Filter?

Filter doesn't seem very applicable for Revavroom given that it's not terribly bulky, and it'll never make a difference with any ground type move. The only other applicable type you can possibly be hit by is fire. I spot checked a few fire moves on the physical and special side, and a decent number of them do fall outside the OHKO range when you switch from Overcoat to Filter, but usually just barely.

I'm willing to accept that there are some scenarios where this could make a difference (mainly giving you just one turn to get a high horsepower off before you lose your remaining HP via life orb recoil), but IMO Overcoat could be a lot more actively applicable for a mon that likes to get in with a chance to set up. Switching into Spore / Sleep Powder users seems like a greater benefit to me. I don't think I've ever seen anyone bring it up, but was just inspired to check what Revavroom's other abilities were when I OHKO'd it with a non-STAB, unboosted earth power.

 

[Sqookblooks]

Some suggestions from my recent Randbats Grind!

1) Remove Horn Leech from the Ogerpon-Wellspring Swords Dance set. Woger is just not bulky enough imo to justify the drop in power from what would otherwise be its strongest attack to use into neutral targets without a boost.

2) Remove Trailblaze (and the Trailblaze Sweep set) from Incineroar. Maybe add Taunt as an option (if it could generate only on SD but if not, then don't add it). Trailblaze just strikes me as way too wishful. It's already pretty rare for me to click Swords Dance on Incineroar given its utility as a bulky Intimidate pivot that resists Dark and Fire, and clicking Trailblaze is almost generational levels of Greed. I think Taunt on SD sets would be nice in particular to shut down SubLeech Grass types which would be a nice add to a Fire Type that otherwise gets absolutely shit on by said Grass Types

3) Remove Trailblaze from Ursaluna. Why would you ever want to click this? Even with a +1 boost, you still aren't fast. It doesn't even hit Swampert harder than Facade does. Between the chip of the Flame Orb and the fact that you typically will end up taking some damage before you get burned, I generally don't think Ursaluna ever really gets a time to want to sweep with Trailblaze

4) Trial Aura Sphere on Raikou? For the Choice Specs set, you get a super-effective click on annoying Steels and Dark Types like Archaludon and Brute Bonnet. For the Calm Mind sets, Aura Sphere is a SE click to pressure pokemon that Tera Steel in an attempt to win a Calm Mind war.

5) Add Tera Fairy on Roaring Goon. Basically the same resistance profile as Tera Poison, except you exchange a weakness to Ground for a weakness to Steel and you get full immunity to opposing Draco Meteors/Outrages.

 

[lesllamas]

Some suggestions from my recent Randbats Grind!

1) Remove Horn Leech from the Ogerpon-Wellspring Swords Dance set. Woger is just not bulky enough imo to justify the drop in power from what would otherwise be its strongest attack to use into neutral targets without a boost.

2) Remove Trailblaze (and the Trailblaze Sweep set) from Incineroar. Maybe add Taunt as an option (if it could generate only on SD but if not, then don't add it). Trailblaze just strikes me as way too wishful. It's already pretty rare for me to click Swords Dance on Incineroar given its utility as a bulky Intimidate pivot that resists Dark and Fire, and clicking Trailblaze is almost generational levels of Greed. I think Taunt on SD sets would be nice in particular to shut down SubLeech Grass types which would be a nice add to a Fire Type that otherwise gets absolutely shit on by said Grass Types

3) Remove Trailblaze from Ursaluna. Why would you ever want to click this? Even with a +1 boost, you still aren't fast. It doesn't even hit Swampert harder than Facade does. Between the chip of the Flame Orb and the fact that you typically will end up taking some damage before you get burned, I generally don't think Ursaluna ever really gets a time to want to sweep with Trailblaze

4) Trial Aura Sphere on Raikou? For the Choice Specs set, you get a super-effective click on annoying Steels and Dark Types like Archaludon and Brute Bonnet. For the Calm Mind sets, Aura Sphere is a SE click to pressure pokemon that Tera Steel in an attempt to win a Calm Mind war.

5) Add Tera Fairy on Roaring Goon. Basically the same resistance profile as Tera Poison, except you exchange a weakness to Ground for a weakness to Steel and you get full immunity to opposing Draco Meteors/Outrages.

Just my 2 cents:

I think 1/2/5 are fine suggestions and don't have much to say about it.

As for trailblaze Ursaluna, I do end up clicking it from time to time. It's really best used when you've gotten in on a mon that doesn't threaten you much who is low, and you pick off the kill while taking a speed boost. You're right that even at +1, Ursaluna isn't very fast (187), but it does push Ursaluna above a pretty large swath of mons that it would have been slower than previously. It really isn't helpful for coverage, but it can be the difference between your opponent being able to swap in something like Poliwrath (example off the top of my head) as revenge to get a free kill, and your opponent not being able to do that without eating huge damage at the very least.

As for Aura Sphere Raikou, I think that Raikou has had Aura Sphere in previous iterations of randbats spanning multiple gens, so I assume the staff are well aware of it. I think it's a fine move, but I don't recall ever really missing it.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

As for Aura Sphere Raikou, I think that Raikou has had Aura Sphere in previous iterations of randbats spanning multiple gens, so I assume the staff are well aware of it. I think it's a fine move, but I don't recall ever really missing it.

yeah that's because it can't miss, kind of the whole point of the move

Some suggestions from my recent Randbats Grind!

1) Remove Horn Leech from the Ogerpon-Wellspring Swords Dance set. Woger is just not bulky enough imo to justify the drop in power from what would otherwise be its strongest attack to use into neutral targets without a boost.

2) Remove Trailblaze (and the Trailblaze Sweep set) from Incineroar. Maybe add Taunt as an option (if it could generate only on SD but if not, then don't add it). Trailblaze just strikes me as way too wishful. It's already pretty rare for me to click Swords Dance on Incineroar given its utility as a bulky Intimidate pivot that resists Dark and Fire, and clicking Trailblaze is almost generational levels of Greed. I think Taunt on SD sets would be nice in particular to shut down SubLeech Grass types which would be a nice add to a Fire Type that otherwise gets absolutely shit on by said Grass Types

3) Remove Trailblaze from Ursaluna. Why would you ever want to click this? Even with a +1 boost, you still aren't fast. It doesn't even hit Swampert harder than Facade does. Between the chip of the Flame Orb and the fact that you typically will end up taking some damage before you get burned, I generally don't think Ursaluna ever really gets a time to want to sweep with Trailblaze

4) Trial Aura Sphere on Raikou? For the Choice Specs set, you get a super-effective click on annoying Steels and Dark Types like Archaludon and Brute Bonnet. For the Calm Mind sets, Aura Sphere is a SE click to pressure pokemon that Tera Steel in an attempt to win a Calm Mind war.

5) Add Tera Fairy on Roaring Goon. Basically the same resistance profile as Tera Poison, except you exchange a weakness to Ground for a weakness to Steel and you get full immunity to opposing Draco Meteors/Outrages.

The team seems to not particularly enjoy most of these suggestions for various reasons; they enjoy the recovery of Horn Leech at +2 on woger, they think trailblaze incineroar is fine, they don't care about Raikou's extraneous coverage much, and they're pretty split down the middle on Ursaluna. All up in the air for now as to whether they'll get implemented, but don't get your hopes up.

The Tera Fairy thing we can probably do though.

 

[lesllamas]

yeah that's because it can't miss, kind of the whole point of the move



The team seems to not particularly enjoy most of these suggestions for various reasons; they enjoy the recovery of Horn Leech at +2 on woger, they think trailblaze incineroar is fine, they don't care about Raikou's extraneous coverage much, and they're pretty split down the middle on Ursaluna. All up in the air for now as to whether they'll get implemented, but don't get your hopes up.

The Tera Fairy thing we can probably do though.

Has there been any discussion on the Revavroom thing I brought up a few posts up?

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Has there been any discussion on the Revavroom thing I brought up a few posts up?

they'd rather not for the sake of fire moves

 

[opencover]

Please consider banning sticky web

 

[Volsur]

Please consider banning sticky web

What should be posted here?
- Accurate reports or screenshots of objectively bad movesets, ability synergy, items, et cetera.
- Suggestions on moves or items to add to (or remove from) Pokemon, backed by good reasoning.

What can I read to make the best suggestions I can?
We've got a very comprehensive resource for that!

What should be posted elsewhere?
Old gens suggestions should be posted in the Old Gens Set Suggestion Thread.
Doubles suggestions should be posted in the Doubles Set Suggestion Thread.
Battle Factory suggestions should be posted in the Battle Factory thread.

Please do not post:
- One-liners. This includes suggestions without any backup reasoning.
- Complaints of illegal Pokemon or sets.
- Requests to add the National Dex.
- Posts complaining about unfairness, demanding certain Pokemon should be "banned" from the format, or complaining about hax.*
- Screenshots of movesets that are not actually bad.

Important details about Random Battles that affect set effectiveness and generation!
- All Pokemon have 85 EVs in every stat with a neutral nature, unless 0 Atk EVs/IVs and 0 Spe EVs/IVs would be beneficial. In these cases, the rest of the EVs are still 85 and the nature is still neutral.
- The set generation is random and runs on an algorithm. Sets will not be identical from match to match, and some sets may be slightly better than others; this thread is only for reporting unviable/undesirable sets. If you want the same few sets every time, you should play Battle Factory instead!
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*Disclaimer (READ BEFORE POSTING):
Random Battles try to always make every part of the competitive Pokemon realm available (not including traits exclusive to AG like Evasion, duplicate species or OHKO moves), along with always aiming to give each Pokemon its best competitive options on their sets. Our method for nerfing strong Pokemon includes a subjective level reduction based on objective winrate data (availabe on the /rwr command), while we try to buff reduced winrate Pokemon by increasing their levels or thinking on alternative sets that might be more useful for them.
Therefore, this thread is not for suggestions, questions or complaints about a particular set that seems too overwhelming for you, as at best it's an issue that will be solved with level nerfing, and if winrates don't abide to it being broken you can reach the Random Battles room to ask for suggestions on how to properly deal with it.

 

[lesllamas]

Does anyone know where the right place would be to post this?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9randombattle-2656347732

The opponent team preview was still showing Clawitzer as alive even when 5 had been knocked out / Zoroark was revealed and knocked out. Finished the game knocking out all 6 and it still showed Clawitzer as being there for the opponent. Not sure if this is intended, but figure it might be a rands specific thing because the other formats have team preview? Sorry for posting this in the wrong place in advance.

 

[lesllamas]

As a separate suggestion, following from the above game, I managed to trick an AV onto Hoopa, and it made me wonder if an AV set has been considered for Hoopa?

405 spdef with 275 HP and 304 spatk is pretty beastly. If it came with psyshock, shadow ball, and coverage like tbolt/energy ball, it could tank special attacks almost as well as Goodra while hitting like an absolute truck.

 

[Emkatt]

I've been thinking this for a while but can we ban the combo of serene grace+paralysis move+flinch move? Any 2 of the 3 is okay but all 3 together is so degenerate and uncompetitive. No one likes to be on either end of it IMO and it's also just too strong on average.

Case in point https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9randombattle-2673626694

 

[shitterlow]

Why does Ariados have insomnia now? Swarm is way more useful in the majority of games. It's likely to tank a hit and megahorn back. If you switch after webs, you can sometimes even use it again with swarm procc'ed. Sleeping an Ariados doesn't counter it's one and only function, which is getting webs up. Correct me if I'm wrong; I'm only 1800.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Why does Ariados have insomnia now? Swarm is way more useful in the majority of games. It's likely to tank a hit and megahorn back. If you switch after webs, you can sometimes even use it again with swarm procc'ed. Sleeping an Ariados doesn't counter it's one and only function, which is getting webs up. Correct me if I'm wrong; I'm only 1800.

"now"? it's had it for a long time

i'll bring it up to the team, though

I've been thinking this for a while but can we ban the combo of serene grace+paralysis move+flinch move? Any 2 of the 3 is okay but all 3 together is so degenerate and uncompetitive. No one likes to be on either end of it IMO and it's also just too strong on average.

Case in point https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9randombattle-2673626694

no