Scientology

highstakespkmn

As you may or may not know, John Travolta's 16 year old son died recently during a vacation to the Bahamas, but one thing that the media is afraid to say is how this could have been caused by scientology.

http://x17online.com/celebrities/john_travolta/john_travoltas_son_dies-01022009.php

Read some of the comments in that linked news article, I'm no expert on any of the diseases mentioned here, but imo it's pretty clear that Travolta denied his son's needs cause of scientology and maybe his son would still be alive today if he didn't follow the bullshit his religion spewed out. I'm more or less posting this cause of scientology and other like religions cause I just don't know what to think when things such as this happen. I normally could care less that you're a scientologist, but if your son who has no choice in the matter dies as a result, that's really a problem.

All minors should at least have some kind of right to scientifically based medical treatment imo and if you want to use scientology medicine on yourself that's your loss, but I don't think we should allow this kinda stuff to happen in the kind of society we have today when it could probably be avoided.

I apply the same kind of principles to children born into other religions where they have no choice on how to live their lives, like that one in Texas where 13 year old girls were forced into marriage iirc. Like it's ok for the parents or those presiding over them to present their beliefs, but this just kinda pisses me off seeing children captive or mistreated in the name of a religion that has no proof behind it, EVEN Amish children who have to live without electronics. Call me crazy, but this story just sparked me to think about religion, particularly scientology in a slightly different way and gave me the initiative to rant about this!
 
A lot of the comments on that article are absolute bullshit.

Although a lot of the Scientology religion seems very weird, including their beliefs regarding psychiatry and the mind, they do not teach anything that is against the use of conventional drugs (whether to help with autism or whatever other syndromes people are speculating about) or using the services of "normal" doctors.

Anyway, regardless of what they believe, the Travolta's couldn't have been withholding needed drugs - it simply wouldn't be legally allowed, in the same way that an adult Jehovah's Witness can refuse a blood transfusion, the hospital ethics committee can override the wishes of the parents (and the child) in the case of a minor.

I feel quite sorry for the Travolta family who, in a time of immense grief for them are being demonised by ignorant people on the internet.

like that one in Texas where 13 year old girls were forced into marriage
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That's not religion, that's very deviant behaviour being wrongly justified by a false reading of the bible - in the same way Islamic extremists falsely use the Koran to justify "killing the infidel" when in fact Mohammed said no such thing.

EVEN Amish children who have to live without electronics.
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What's so terrible about life without electronics, people were perfectly happy (and closer to God) without them for thousands of years. Believe it or not, the world would not end if the internet self-destructed tomorrow.
 
Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with the OP here. The Amish are given the chance to change religions at age 16, I think. At that time they are free to choose their own religion.

Scientology is new, secretive, and obscure. Basing those assumptions off of what you have here is not enough to prve a point.
 
timw06 said:
Anyway, regardless of what they believe, the Travolta's couldn't have been withholding needed drugs - it simply wouldn't be legally allowed, in the same way that an adult Jehovah's Witness can refuse a blood transfusion, the hospital ethics committee can override the wishes of the parents (and the child) in the case of a minor.
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I don't think this is true. Or rather I don't think this is legal (if it and when it has occured). How can a commitee essentially say "we know what's best for you regardless of your religous beliefs". What's the difference between this and defying a DNR order?

And who decides what is a needed drug? One concern for parents today is that vaccinations may cause autsim and so they are choosing not to have their children vaccinated. Or if someone's child has ADD and they choose not to give them prescribed medicine because they feel it's harmful. Is that wrong?

I realize that's a lot of question marks. :P
 
Xia said:
Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with the OP here. The Amish are given the chance to change religions at age 16, I think. At that time they are free to choose their own religion.

Scientology is new, secretive, and obscure. Basing those assumptions off of what you have here is not enough to prve a point.
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IIRC, they are but at the cost of being disowned by their families and their township.

Scientology seems like a load of bullshit and is just some stupid trendy religion with celebrities (much like how Kabbalah was for awhile with a lot of starlets).
 
What is Scientology exactly? Is it just a denomination of Christianity that doesn't like psychiatry?
 
Scientologists believe that this alien guy brought thousands of good aliens to earth and slaughtered them all in volcanoes, and their souls possessed certain people, giving them greater knowledge and wisdom. When those people die, the alien soul leaves their body and inhabits a new person, giving them all the knowledge and wisdom of the person who died on top of the alien's as well.

At least thats what I got from it. Look it up sometime.
 
skiddle said:
Scientologists believe that this alien guy brought thousands of good aliens to earth and slaughtered them all in volcanoes, and their souls possessed certain people, giving them greater knowledge and wisdom. When those people die, the alien soul leaves their body and inhabits a new person, giving them all the knowledge and wisdom of the person who died on top of the alien's as well.

At least thats what I got from it. Look it up sometime.
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... Seriously? Most religious stories are pretty hard to believe, but this just takes the cake.
 
One of my friends just went on this big anti-scientology trip. He claims the same basic things that they endanger and even kill their own members and talks about how they must be stopped. He posted this inane argument he had with one on his facebook, where they both looked like idiots.

He's usually pretty smart too. Whenever he talks about something controversial though he comes off like an idiot, usually because he's wrong.
 
Right. How exactly is he backing any of his claims? Jeez... What exactly is with people these days?

After reading that, and finding out that it was made-up by some guy who writes science fiction, it's pretty obvious this 'religion' is just a load of crap. And the fact that they strongly hate psychiatry and psychology, something I wish to pursue as a career and find very interesting.
 
The "origin" story according to Wikipedia is really ridiculous, but not so much more ridiculous than "An all-powerful being created two humans that lived in a garden until a snake told them to eat a magic piece of fruit which gave them knowledge of good and evil."
 
The wikipedia article is a jumbled crap of an article, but if the whole religion was founded on this:

437px-May_1950_Astounding_Science_Fiction.jpg


and the alien story is really what they think...

Then Scientology really is weird ass shit.
 
I'll state the other side of the issue to continue the conversation. It's their belief, similar to how people don't want abortions because it would interfere with their belief. It isn't the ideal that caused the death, but the people's decision to follow that ideal.

Anyhow I don't support scientology, just throwing in the other side.
 
Scientology is easily one of the most if not the most ridiculous religion out there. It is some wacked out warped believe that all these Hollywood airheads believe in, and its a load of trash. And yes it is a ridiculous Travolta's son could have been saved, his condition could have been treated, but his life was lost due to this messed up belief in sciontology.
 
From what I read in the article, he had a seizure and fell and hit his head on the bathtub (or other hard surface)... and that's what killed him (although I understand there will be an autopsy just to make sure).

If he had epilipsy or something similar, meds might have been able to help CONTROL the seizures, but it's unlikely they would completely prevent them. It's tragic, it happens. I doubt his religious beliefs are really to blame for it.

And, yes, Scientology is a load of crap... but I feel the same way about numerous other religions.
 
Qzahk said:
What is Scientology exactly? Is it just a denomination of Christianity that doesn't like psychiatry?
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Scientology is NOT a denomination of Christianity, it has nothing to do with Christianity at all. You might be thinking about Christian Science but even that one is not a "Christian" denomination since it doesnt follow what the bible says really and for a denomination to actually be "Christian" they have to follow what Christ said and taught. If they do not follow what Christ taught then they cannot be a follower of Christ, which is what the word Christian means.
 
Lexite said:
Scientology is NOT a denomination of Christianity, it has nothing to do with Christianity at all. You might be thinking about Christian Science but even that one is not a "Christian" denomination since it doesnt follow what the bible says really and for a denomination to actually be "Christian" they have to follow what Christ said and taught. If they do not follow what Christ taught then they cannot be a follower of Christ, which is what the word Christian means.
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In that case no one is Christian.
 
Tangerine said:
In that case no one is Christian.
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What? If they do not follow what the bible says then they cannot technically be called A Christian, plain and simple. Words have definitions, if something does not follow that definition then it is not that word.

Scientology makes no reference to God or Christ, therefore it is not Christian based. Further more Scientologists do not claim to be a Christian organization.

And yes there are groups that are Christian's, they follow Christ. If they try to follow Christ then they are a Christian. God never said we had to be perfect and had to follow the Bible perfectly, he knew we couldnt be.
 
Lexite said:
What? If they do not follow what the bible says then they cannot technically be called A Christian, plain and simple. Words have definitions, if something does not follow that definition then it is not that word.
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Thanks for the rhetoric, but I was implying that "christians" cannot exist because no one follows what the bible says
 
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