Scizor (Swords Dance Scout) [QC 0/3]

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Black Rain

TODO: Run calcs for two different EV spreads. The EV's listed at the moment may be subject to change, though most likely not by much.

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Scizor

[SET]
name: Swords Dance Scout
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Roost
move 3: Bullet Punch
move 4: U-turn
item: Iron Plate / Insect Plate / Lum Berry
nature: Adamant
ability: Technician
evs: 248 HP / 96 Atk / 168 SDef

Why this set deserves to be on site:
  • Gives Scizor the power of a Swords Dance variant while allowing it to scout with U-turn.
  • Has a surprise factor due to the popularity of Choice Band variants, allowing you to U-turn out of Pokemon like Magnezone.
  • Hazards will not be as much of a problem for it unlike the Choice Band variants, as Scizor can simply roost off the damage each time it comes in.
  • Despite a bulkier EV Spread, Bullet Punch and U-turn still hit hard even when unboosted.

Additional Comments:
  • 168 SDef EVs gives Scizor 238 Special Defense, making it easier to take hits from Latios.
  • 248 HP EVs makes it HP 343, allowing it to switch in a good number of times into entry hazards without being killed on one of the switches. The odd numbered health also allows it to roost optimally, since Roost numbers round up.


Teammates and Counters:
Teammates:
  • Rotom-W is a good teammate as the two can Volt-turn to nab switch advantages. Rotom-W also has good type synergy with Scizor.
  • Breloom can help deal with Jellicent, which can give this Scizor set quite a bit of a problem, resisting its attacks and threatening to burn.
  • Rain is beneficial for Scizor as HP Fire now fails to kill it. This allows Scizor to comfortably come in on Pokemon such as Celebi and U-turn out, supposing Celebi didn't get up a Nasty Plot and isn't holding a Life Orb.
  • Latios can help beat Pokemon such as Celebi that will give Scizor issues, though Scizor can somewhat take it on in rain. Latios also provides helpful type synergy so Scizor can go into him to help beat Pokemon such as Heatran.
Counters:
  • Skarmory: For rather obvious reasons here.
  • Heatran: Naturally outspeeds Scizor and threatens to OHKO with any move, while Scizor can't do anything back.
  • Jellicent: Resists both of Scizor's attacks and threatens to burn.
  • Ferrothorn: Scizor can scare it out when it starts to set up SD's, but even at +6, U-turn only has a slim chance of killing, and Scizor won't enjoy taking Iron Barbs damage even though it can Roost it off. Leech Seed is another problem as Scizor is forced to go for Roost more often and Ferro can just go into something that will threaten Scizor.
 
I don't know if this set needs to be on site(cause it's so similar to the sd set), but it's really good. I'd slash occa berry with iron plate
 
Yeah, this is a good set though it plays similarly to SD. However, some differences include its ability to bluff a (weak) Choice set, and then it uses a more defensive spread. I think the benchmark is actually EVs: 244 HP / 96 Atk / 168 SDef. Anyhow, this is a good set and I think it merits an analysis.
 
Thanks for the responses.
@Sir: In my opinion U-turn and Bug Bite SD variants are played differently - U-turn is more for scouting purposes and bluffing a Choice Band while Bug Bite is just your typical set-up attacker then try to do a sweep. U-turn also outclasses Bug Bite in my opinion as it allows you to get out of situations such as being trapped by Magnezone, which would normally mean the end of Bug Bite SD Scizor.
@Harsha: I'll edit in the EV's later and update it with damage calcs to match the EV's.
 
It's good for bluffing a Choice Item if your opponent doesn't notice how weak the U-Turn is. It's pretty lackluster sweeper, but you are sacrificing a lot of utility/power in exchange to bluff a choice set
 
^is that going to be a big problem? Latios / Latias / Starmie / Gengar all hate bulky CB Scizar (so rare but possible). How does your damage output compare to a 4 ATK CB Scizor?
 
Looks like an interesting set actually. First thing I have to say though is that you are going to need a more specialized defensive spread. "Equal defenses on both sides" ain't gonna cut it. The bulky swords dance spread on site is probably good enough (248 HP / 40 Atk / 220 SpD) although you can tweak it, but after doing some calcs it seems pretty solid defensively. Although since your bluffing choice band, you might want to add more attack.
 
If you just spam Bullet Punch the damage output will be pretty similar thanks to Iron Plate. Another thing - U-turn still does respectable damage regardless and I don't think there are really many Pokemon that you would notice the damage output on (it would take a bit of intuition to realize that it's not choiced however, if you have already spammed Iron Plate Bullet Punch a few times). I've played with this set a bit and you can keep the ruse that you're Choice Banded going for quite a while if you start off with Bullet Punch.
 
I honestly think Leftovers should be the primary slash; people who are experienced will obviously find out you're not Banded after the rather weak damage output and Leftovers lets you stay much longer. This set is usually taking powerful hits such as Draco Meteor and Rain boosted Hydro Pumps, etc. and the recovery is greatly appreciated.
 
I personally think it would be enough if we just slash U-turn and Iron Plate on the bulky SD set and give it a paragraph on its utility. It's pretty much all it is, a bulky SD Scizor set with U-turn to try and keep momentum up early game.
 
Hi, I'm back. Thank you all for posting and sharing your thoughts. I'll now respond to them.

@ThePillsburyDoughBoy: That's true, but I believe the main niche of this set is its ability to scout while also posing as a threat thanks to Swords Dance. The ability to bluff a CB is just an added bonus. Besides, people switch things like Skarmory into Scizor, so there isn't too much difference to be noticed unless you pay extreme detail in the damage calcs.

@Chou Toshio: Assuming 104 Attack EV's on the SD Scout, against a Bashful 4 HP / 0 Ditto, for the sake of damage calculations:

SD Scout: 87% - 103%
4Atk CB: 100% - 118%

Despite the lower damage output, SD Scout has the ability to Roost off entry hazard damage, which CB variants lack.

@Scarfwynaut: A more defensive spread could work, but that means Scizor will no longer be able to Guaranteed KO certain Pokemon, such as Dragonite, without more entry hazard damage. However, being able to take Draco's better will be beneficial.

@LighTz911: As NatGeo also mentioned, if you start off Bullet Punching, you give people the immediate intuition to think that you are banded. The lack of Life Orb recoil and Leftovers Recovery also helps. Scizor's switchins mainly consists of Pokemon like Skarmory that can take a hit really well from it, which means that there is even less range in the damage, making it harder for the opponent to notice that you aren't banded.

@Shrang: That sounds like a good idea.
 
Black Rain said:
@Chou Toshio: Assuming 104 Attack EV's on the SD Scout, against a Bashful 4 HP / 0 Ditto, for the sake of damage calculations:

SD Scout: 87% - 103%
4Atk CB: 100% - 118%

Despite the lower damage output, SD Scout has the ability to Roost off entry hazard damage, which CB variants lack.
Click to expand...

k so really, the damage output is similar enough that you could probably get away with pretending to be a low-invested CB Scizor.
 
I should really start working on the damage calcs for the spreads that Harsha and ScarfWynaut suggested. Oh well, will work on that later.

@Novaray: I'll consider it, but Bullet Punch will lose quite a bit of power, and more likely reveal that this Scizor isn't banded. Though the main switchins are probably things like Skarmory that will resist Scizor's attacks, other things that don't get KO'd by Bullet Punch will be a pretty dead giveaway that this Scizor isn't banded.
 
"244 HP EVs makes it HP 342, allowing it to switch into Stealth Rocks a good number of times since it isn't divisible by 8, unlike the 252 HP EV investment. 342 is also an even number, allowing good Roost recovery numbers."

Odd HP rounds up Roost, so this isn't true.

I'd much rather just see a mention of this in the bulky SD set, because it's the exact same thing except with U-Turn. Neither can actually try to bluff a Choice Band set with Bullet Punch because with this attack investment you end up with effectively around 420 attack with Metal Coat and Choice Band brings the least invested of CB Scizor to 520 to put it into perspective. It's incredibly obvious when you're not using U-Turn either. This set is already mentioned in the AC of the bulky set and I say the only upgrade it deserves from that is a slash.
 
yee said:
"244 HP EVs makes it HP 342, allowing it to switch into Stealth Rocks a good number of times since it isn't divisible by 8, unlike the 252 HP EV investment. 342 is also an even number, allowing good Roost recovery numbers."

Odd HP rounds up Roost, so this isn't true.

I'd much rather just see a mention of this in the bulky SD set, because it's the exact same thing except with U-Turn. Neither can actually try to bluff a Choice Band set with Bullet Punch because with this attack investment you end up with effectively around 420 attack with Metal Coat and Choice Band brings the least invested of CB Scizor to 520 to put it into perspective. It's incredibly obvious when you're not using U-Turn either. This set is already mentioned in the AC of the bulky set and I say the only upgrade it deserves from that is a slash.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification on Roost numbers. I'll edit it in shortly. At the moment, this combination is still very under used, with Iron Plate being used on only 3.1% of all Scizors according to the January 2012 Moveset Statistics, which could make it work as a surprise factor, and as Chou Toshio said, a bulky CB variant as well. Though there is a severe lack of power when compared to a Max Attack CB variant, this set has been used by people such as mostwanted in his Apocalypse team to a great success. However, I do agree that it should get a slash with Bug Bite and Super Power.
 
I honestly don't see why this Scizor would merrit it's own section when it's virtually identical to the bulky SD Scizor already on site, only with Iron Plate instead of Leftovers and U-turn instead of Bug Bite. U-Turn is already mentioned in the additional comments section rather extensively.

The EV spread is just a little bit different from the standard version of Bulky SD Scizor, tweaked to have a bit more off the bat power to bluff better. Honestly, I think that this belongs in the creative moveset thread at best. It's just a novel variation for a very specific niche.

The bottom line is that it's not different enough or important enough to warrant another entry. The only new thing here that isn't covered in the existing Scizor analysis is the use of Iron Plate, which deserves an OO mention at most. If we just add the line "An Iron Plate can be used to bluff a Choice Set to get the upper hand on Magnezone" that'd pretty much cover everything new this set brings to the table.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I really don't see the point of this. It seems like a decent enough idea to use, but a whole section dedicated to it? It just seems repetitive.
 
I think Insect Plate could go in AC as U-turn is spammed just as much (if not more) as Bullet Punch on the CB set. The extra power to U-turn is nice as it can only be used boosted once whereas Bullet Punch can be constantly used under the Swords Dance boosts.
 
Yea, we already have 2 SD sets on-site already, and either of them can easily use U-turn > Bug Bite & Metal Coat > Life Orb / Leftovers to produce the same results as this.

QC Rejected
 
well, I agree it is effective, and I think superpower should be slashed with roost, and maybe occa and lum berry slashed with iron plate.
 
Superpower should not be slashed because the point of this set is to retain as much health and bulk as possible. If you lose Roost, you lose the point of this set.
 
Hi, sorry about being inactive for the past few days, but I'm back now. I'm a bit disappointed this got one reject, but Jimera0 and Pocket do raise some good points. At the time of writing this I didn't notice that the analysis on site already had U-turn as an option, so I apologize about that. Perhaps this will be approved by other QC members though, maybe not. I can only wait and see. However, since more people did post, I'll respond:

@Jimera0: Hmm... Maybe I should have posted this in the creative moveset thread. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

@BTzz: Sounds like a good idea. Edited OP.

@Asterat: Scizor will lose a lot of health switching back and forth, which is something this set aims to prevent through Roost. However, if you're playing more offensively, I guess it could be worth the try, but I personally can't see it working out very well. Super Power from this Scizor also won't be 2HKOing Skarmory if the initial one is +2.
 
I was thinking how Baton Pass might be a cool option for scouting purposes, minus the damage but you can pass off those SD boosts. It does however, show to the opponent that it's not choiced but I still think that you can slash it somewhere like Roost or U-turn.

But I'm not so sure about this set. I think that for scouting purposes, CB Scizor does that fine. And your only late game sweeping tool is Bullet Punch, and CB Scizor does that just fine too. And I'm not so sure on the fact that you have to spend a turn first to even match the instant power CB provides. And CB Scizor has the options to use Superpower and Pursuit. Can someone please explain to me how this set works and how it's better than CB Scizor in some ways?
 
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