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Ubers Scizor

Please convert the analysis to skeleton format so that we can stamp it appropriately. You can keep what you have written just put it in hide tags and make skeletons highlighting the main points of the analysis.
 
Make sure to explain what the attack evs and spdef evs are for in the set details mention. (2HKO bulky GeoXern after SR and survive his +2 focus blast) Also mention in the usage tips that if you use scizor to pursuit MgaGar, make sure to have another Xern/ekiller checks a Dbond will mean you lose your scizor and won't be able to check them anymore. Double check the calcs but I think physically defensive xern checks scizor. Gyarados does as well and Poison Arceus can switch in and burn scizor. Landour-T can switch in and hit back hard with Earth Plate boosted EQs. Dialga is a good check. genesect with Blaze/flamethrower works too. Might be worth seperating mblaze and mZardX from Ho-Oh and MZardY as not only can they roast Scizor but they can setup on him. Thundy isn't very bulky but he resists scizor's attacks and hits back hard. Ferro, klefki and forry can spike on mscizor. The giraina's can tank his hits and burn/phaze out. Lucario can setup on scizor. Mega aggron just lols. Last, arc fight works but really hates toxic and sucks in general.

Add that stuff and this is QC Approved 1/3
MKlzxmr.gif
 
Actually, now that I look at these calcs myself I see that its not quite as effective as one would like. Put 248 hp / 60 attack / 72 defense / 128 spdef impish in set details for those that want a scizor that can tank physical attacks better while being able to survive +2 modest focus blast after SR and 2HKO back with bullet punch. (btw, why 64 attack evs in that spdef set mention and not 60?)

I'm thinking the main spread should be 248 hp / 252 attack / 8 spdef adamant with some new slashing as it's easier to just outright KO ekiller rather than try to Toxic stall it as well as just picking off a GeoXern that was hit during setup.

Bullet Punch
Superpower
Roost
U-turn / Toxic / Knock Off

Pursuit and Defog should just be moves mentions as Pursuit is specialized and otherwise not entirely useful while Defog isn't that reliable on Scizor but he can create free turns well enough that you can tack it on if you really want to.
 
Melee Mewtwo said:
Superpower isn't worth a slash so just leave it as a mention in the moves section. (way too specialized, outclassed by Toxic, and gets fucked by recover ekiller lmao)
Click to expand...
Unslash it pls
EDIT: kinda awkward timing but I don't really see a use for Superpower unless it can OHKO Arceus
 
Oh, I just explained the new spread to piex on IRC so just gonna copypasta.

<Melee_Mewtwo> just so you know
<Melee_Mewtwo> superpower -> bullet
<Melee_Mewtwo> on fast ekiller KOs with SR
<Melee_Mewtwo> or just one round of LO recoil (if you don't get min rolls)
<Melee_Mewtwo> while for the bulkier lum variants
<Melee_Mewtwo> you can afford to superpower twice cause lumekiller is weak
<Melee_Mewtwo> or if its at about 75% from sr/prior damage
<Melee_Mewtwo> you can superpower -> bullet KO
<Melee_Mewtwo> xerneas ust needs like 40%ish damage done to it as it sets up
<Melee_Mewtwo> then sciz can pick it off
 
Have you been making changes to the skeleton? I know you told me you updated the analysis but I don't see some of them in the skeleton.
 
There's quite a bit I haven't updated in the skeleton >.> Was hard work just getting it into the analysis. If you want me to put the additions into the skele too I can tho
 
Yeah, normally you shouldn't have a write up yet so that QC doesn't have to read through text everytime to check if things were fixed. The write up is supposed to be based off of the skeleton, not the other way around.
 
- Fire attack users and Blaze/Zard X can set up too
- Rocky Helmet Skarmory punishes U-Turn spam + spikes
- Aegilash but hates SD and knock off
- Gira-A hate knock off
- Lando-T + Gliscor fears nothing, can taunt
- Gyarados
- M-aggron
- Physically Defensive Kyogre
- Thundurus makes life difficult and can taunt to stop roost/defog
- forry + klefki dislikes superpower but can spike
- Will-o-Wisp
- Genesect pretty decent
- Zekrom can 2HKO but fears toxic/knock of

fiddled with your list for a better order and grouping
 
Ho-oh obviously goes the first in that counter-list though, if you are using Scizor you must be prepared to deal with Ho-oh as in switching in to it- this is a hard task and restricts teambuilding more than any of the other things that coutners Scizor. idk maybe you forgot about it or this list was things pieexplode forgot to mention...
 
Having that not first on the list is a.. dumb mistake on my part. Thanks for spotting it.. I think it might be in the actual analysis bit but I'll be redoing that later anyway when I can be bothered (will be before fri night hopefully)
 
+Melee Mewtwo: also can you look at scizor nd pass it if it's ready
Fireburn: ok
Fireburn: so is superpower being left as a main move on support
+Melee Mewtwo: yeah
Fireburn: ok
+Melee Mewtwo: i calced the dfensive spreads
+Melee Mewtwo: +2 ekiller was doing 50%~
+Melee Mewtwo: so that's a shitty as check
+Melee Mewtwo: and you needed max hp to survive fblast after sr
+Melee Mewtwo: so that was shaky as fuck too
+Melee Mewtwo: better to go max attack
+Melee Mewtwo: just ko the ekiller with super to bullet
Fireburn: nice strong boolet punch
+Melee Mewtwo: and just pick off a weakened xern
Fireburn: um can ekiller kill with eq + espeed with super's def drop
+Melee Mewtwo: i didn't calc
+Melee Mewtwo: p sure it doesn't but I didn't calc lol
Fireburn: I dont think it will but I'll check
+Melee Mewtwo: k
Fireburn: +2 252+ Atk Arceus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 169-199 (49.1 - 57.8%)
Fireburn: +2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 182-215 (52.9 - 62.5%)
Fireburn: um
Fireburn: thats not good
+Melee Mewtwo: lol wut that's sad
+Melee Mewtwo: does scizor not have
+Melee Mewtwo: anotehr move
+Melee Mewtwo: that's fighting type?
Fireburn: brick break :D
+Melee Mewtwo: lol
+Melee Mewtwo: anyways
+Melee Mewtwo: it does like
+Melee Mewtwo: 60% iirc
+Melee Mewtwo: superpower
+Melee Mewtwo: can you calc since you have it up?
Fireburn: 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 170-202 (38.2 - 45.4%)
+Melee Mewtwo: no superpower
Fireburn: 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 272-322 (61.2 - 72.5%)
+Melee Mewtwo: brick break blows balls I know that
+Melee Mewtwo: yea that's good enough
Fireburn: or you can use the manliest move ever
Fireburn: ROCK SMASH
+Melee Mewtwo: just post that
+Melee Mewtwo: scizor loses with def drops
+Melee Mewtwo: can pick off weakened ekilelr though
+Melee Mewtwo: like xern
+Melee Mewtwo: i guess the alternative is going
+Melee Mewtwo: mx def scizor
+Melee Mewtwo: and just have it
+Melee Mewtwo: pick off really really weakened xern
+Melee Mewtwo: can you calc max def scizor?
Fireburn: for eq + espeed
+Melee Mewtwo: no just e
+Melee Mewtwo: if you did max def
+Melee Mewtwo: you would want to toxic stall
+Melee Mewtwo: do jolly lo
+Melee Mewtwo: and lum addy
Fireburn: +2 252+ Atk Arceus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 129-152 (37.6 - 44.3%)
Fireburn: +2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 152-179 (44.3 - 52.1%)
+Melee Mewtwo: lol fuck that
Fireburn: skarmer needs to give scizor its ground immune :[
+Melee Mewtwo: oh well
+Melee Mewtwo: scizor will just be an offensive pivot
Fireburn: jolly lo is easier to stall regardless
+Melee Mewtwo: that's a solid check to those mons
+Melee Mewtwo: I mean its not hard
+Melee Mewtwo: to hit them for 40%ish
+Melee Mewtwo: as they setup
+Melee Mewtwo: on the offfensivish teams sciz will be on
+Melee Mewtwo: can you trpe up the post explaining that,
+Melee Mewtwo: i can't be assed
Fireburn: kk
+Melee Mewtwo: you'd think with those stick legs mega sciz has
+Melee Mewtwo: he'd learn low kick
+Melee Mewtwo: i don' know how his kicks could be any higher
+Melee Mewtwo: err nvm
+Melee Mewtwo: whatever
Fireburn: lol
+Melee Mewtwo: that doesn't make sense
+Melee Mewtwo: i just want low kick
+Melee Mewtwo: oh well gonna be afk
Fireburn: ok
Fireburn: one more thing
Fireburn: do you want a mention of adamant on choice band
+Melee Mewtwo: idk the calcs
+Melee Mewtwo: is therea point?
+Melee Mewtwo: actually i wonder what
+Melee Mewtwo: the spdef spread is even useful for
+Melee Mewtwo: i guess gengar
+Melee Mewtwo: but you have to 50/50 anyways
+Melee Mewtwo: and its not taking two focus blasts
Fireburn: idk edgar uses adamant cb I thinl
Fireburn: *think
+Melee Mewtwo: do you mind fiddling with the spreads?
Fireburn: I can work with it
+Melee Mewtwo: like looking at what max attack does too cause
+Melee Mewtwo: i'm not sure what that spdef does anymore with
+Melee Mewtwo: no more dark/ghost rresists
Fireburn: 248+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 368-434 (82.8 - 97.7%)
+Melee Mewtwo: it takes how much back?
+Melee Mewtwo: and how much does it do to xern?
+Melee Mewtwo: also how much does mega gar do?
Fireburn: +2 252+ Atk Arceus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 12 Def Scizor: 223-263 (65 - 76.6%)
+Melee Mewtwo: really I think those are the biggest calcs for scizor
+Melee Mewtwo: o not bad
+Melee Mewtwo: also mega kanga matters i guess
Fireburn: +2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 12 Def Scizor: 265-312 (77.2 - 90.9%)
+Melee Mewtwo: lol that's worse
Fireburn: 248+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Xerneas: 288-342 (73.2 - 87%)
+Melee Mewtwo: lol nice
Fireburn: 248+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 195-229 (74.4 - 87.4%)
+Melee Mewtwo: very good lol
Fireburn: 248+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 430-506 (103.8 - 122.2%)
Fireburn: wait auto 252 hp
+Melee Mewtwo: oh i meant ho wmuch does
+Melee Mewtwo: mega gar do
+Melee Mewtwo: and how much does
+Melee Mewtwo: kanga do to it
Fireburn: o
Fireburn: 252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 193-228 (56.2 - 66.4%)
+Melee Mewtwo: not bad
Fireburn: focus miss does the same
+Melee Mewtwo: knowing that even with spdef you are 2HKo'd
+Melee Mewtwo: ye
+Melee Mewtwo: at least here you have a stronger bullet
+Melee Mewtwo: so beter odds of forcing into 50/50
Fireburn: 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 12 Def Scizor: 172-204 (50.1 - 59.4%)
+Melee Mewtwo: i really need to find something o eat but could you compare with the curretn spred
Fireburn: ok
+Melee Mewtwo: and see if there's any noticable difference bulk wise
Fireburn: it has the same physical bulk
+Melee Mewtwo: like as far as how much more you'd have to predict bringing him in etc
Fireburn: but I'll do special calcs
+Melee Mewtwo: yeah true
Fireburn: I took all the sdef evs and shoved them into attack lol
+Melee Mewtwo: lol
+Melee Mewtwo: Fireburn: +2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 12 Def Scizor: 265-312 (77.2 - 90.9%)
+Melee Mewtwo: i wonder if its possible to fix this calc or not
+Melee Mewtwo: cause that's kinda lame
+Melee Mewtwo: not sure how much attack you'd lose dodging the OHKO after sr thoguh
Fireburn: 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 138-163 (40.2 - 47.5%)
Fireburn: 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Scizor: 102-120 (29.7 - 34.9%)
+Melee Mewtwo: that's fairly noticable
Fireburn: 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Scizor: 128-151 (37.3 - 44%)
Fireburn: 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 175-206 (51 - 60%)
Fireburn: thats probably more noticeable
+Melee Mewtwo: 248+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Xerneas: 288-342 (73.2 - 87%)
+Melee Mewtwo: can you show me current spread output?
+Melee Mewtwo: cause scizor beats xern by picking it off anyways
+Melee Mewtwo: if the atack drop is as noticeable
Fireburn: 56 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 266-314 (67.5 - 79.6%)
+Melee Mewtwo: i'd rather have more difficulty bringing it in
+Melee Mewtwo: than actually struggling to beat it
+Melee Mewtwo: you changed
+Melee Mewtwo: xern's spred
+Melee Mewtwo: no 152 def
Fireburn: o
Fireburn: 56 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Xerneas: 228-270 (58 - 68.7%)
+Melee Mewtwo: that's lame imo
+Melee Mewtwo: i think max attack is best
+Melee Mewtwo: what about you?
Fireburn: mmmmm
Fireburn: prolly
+Melee Mewtwo: okay so now i'm really going to be afk
Fireburn: 248+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 177-208 (62.9 - 74%)
Fireburn: 248+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 216-255 (61.1 - 72.2%)
Fireburn: these are also cute

Summary:

-K so it turns out Adamant EKiller can 2HKO Max HP MScizor with EQ + ESpeed after Superpower's Defense drop so mention that EKiller needs to be at like 60-70%ish for MScizor to reliably handle it. Toxic/Roost with Impish and full investment in Defense or Toxicing Arc with something else as it sets up and then going to Sciz are ways to handle EKiller too.

-Mention Rock/Water Arc as good Ho-Oh checks (and with Wisp they can backup check EKiller which is something).

-We think the spread for CB should be changed to 248 HP/248 Attack/12 Def Adamant with the Careful spread mentioned in set details, its more reliable at beating Xern/EKiller with the increased power and BP also does a ton more to MGar.

-Kyogre is sort of a check since it resists BP and wrecks you with [insert water move here] so mention it as a check.

Seems fine otherwise.

QC 2/3
 
I'll add these edits in all on Friday (unlikely to get on tomorrow).. all sounds sensible and reasonable.

Edit: Saturday, I am lazy.
Edit: Sunday, very lazy.
Edit: Editception, edited skele + analysis.
Edit: this has been done for like 2 weeks now, waiting for 3rd check
 
Last edited:
Couple of things:
- Defog needs a slash somewhere, IMO. It's too good to have in AC. You could probably slash it in the 4th slot (a bit of slashitis there) or over Superpower. Personally, I don't run Superpower very often, and you could probably get away with it if you have a few semi-checks to Ekiller anyway.
- Add Baton Pass to OO. You have Tailwind in there, may as well.

Add these and I'll approve.
 
Make the moves look like this:

move 1: Bullet Punch
move 2: Roost
move 3: Superpower / Pursuit / U-turn
move 4: Toxic / Defog

Explaination: First move Bullet Punch is non-negotiable, you need it for Xerneas and that's that. Roost is also unslashed because of obvious reasons. While it is true that you don't wall much stuff safely with max atk investment, Roost still allows you to stay healthy against some mons like support Arc (who you can Toxic stall) and defensive Groudon. Third slot is the "additional" check slot. Since the spread is max atk, it would be inconsistent to not slash Superpower first as it soft checks SD Arceus, kills Ferro/Heatran/Darkceus and does reasonably well vs most neutral threats. Second slash pursuit, makes you go from a semi check to Xerneas and Ekiller to a semi check to Xerneas and a trapper against Gengar. Advise sdef spread for the usage of Pursuit. U-turn is a shitty move in general because Scizor is slow and doesn't threaten out that much stuff- but if you are using it with something like Deo-A then it becomes nice to have. Last slot is the "utility" slot. Either you use Toxic to cripple switch ins, or Defog which generally is niche af but still works if your team just needs a defoger while not being particularly SR weak (so no Ho-oh teams with defog sciz). Do this and I'll approve
 
I feel like pursuit can stay in AC since it only works with the spdef spread (which isn't the most effective generally speaking) and only helps in trapping mega gar which isn't all that rad cause you have to pack another xern check for it to work (cause dbond) and it might not since hp fire gengar is a thing.

I think otherwise we pretty much have the same outlook on it except that you tried to merge the "standard" set with the spdef pursuit one which I don't think is needed since its kinda niche option itself. I think Scizor is mostly used to check xern and ekiller which is why the first three moves are locked and then the fourth move is just a toss up on what you want to do on the switches you force. Turn to keep momentum, toxic cause everybody else does it, Knock off to annoy held items and then I guess defog cause you really hate hazards? I don't mind shifting the order of the slashing for the 4th slot. I feel like defog isn't worth much more than just a moves section since you should have much better ways to handle spikes/sr for your ho oh (cause sciz is unreliable) which means it's just casual hazards clearer that comes at the price of coverage and your own sr.


There's also some stuff i want to nitpick in the writeup now but I'm not focused enough to do so atm, get to it later when i've eaten more or something.
 
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Ok cool so.. when MM2 and the rest of you have argued over what i need to do I'll do it; I will add baton pass to other options.
 
Overview:
You mention checking Xerneas and the general stat buffs but don't mention how Scizor checks Ekiller (and Kanga). Checking Xern and Ekiller in one slot is most common reason people add Scizor to their teams. I also feel like the pursuiting Gengar sentence could be worded differently. It's not just a benefit to stall teams and Gengar can run HP Fire or just Dbond Scizor which limits the usefulness of the ability as it's not terribly consistent and you'll often be forced into making a trade. (which means you are better off just not making a mega gar weak team in the first place)

-Support-
Moves: When you bring up stuff like Pursuit (and by extension swords dance), mention how the spdef can help scizor be more effective at the trapping role. (or at least switch in easier on the mons it is meant to trap)

Set Details: You aren't making any sense with your alt spreads mentions. Specifically, in the physical spread you don't mention why you would opt for it except to help check xern better (not true) in which case it doesn't make sense why you would ever use it over the spdef set that you mention right after.

Team options: I disagree with the mention of needing another check to ekiller. You just need to say how much superpowr does to it and let them know that you should run teammates that are capable of doing enough damage to put ekiller into ko range after SR. I also feel like you could add more mentions of teammates here because Scizor has quite a few exploitable weaknesses like fire types and Specs Kyogre (who can't always switch in safely but once in it gets to spout for free) that ought to be handled to some extent.

-CB-
Moves: I don't mind you mentioning that bullet helps check xerneas but, even more so than the support set, it's also what makes scizor good by giving it a strong priority that makes up for it's shitty speed and underwhelming bulk. Late but I think Knock Off should get the first slash as OHKOing 252 ho-oh 50% of the time after SR is pretty damn good and it's a strong disruptive move in general that alows it to bypass a lot of it's checks like Giratina(-o) and Aegislash. (hint, you should mention that stuff in your analysis) For Superpower, mention how that's actually Scizor's strongest attack and crushes a lot of the steel types that resist its STABs. (the ones it doesn't are often weak to Knock Off)

Set Details: For the calc about Ekiller's EQ, make sure you mention that it only applies if SR isn't up and Scizor is at 100% HP. (so very situational) Mention how 248 hp evs reduces the amount of damage it takes from SR as well.

Usage tips: I should have caught this earlier but this section needs a full revamp. CB Scizor isn't meant to be a Ekiller check or Gengar trapper.

Teammates: CB Scizor isn't a check to ekiller in the first place. (at most you could call it the secondary check but that's a stretch still) If you want to mention ekiller, bring up how cb sciz trades that bulk for checking ekiller that the support set has in exchange for raw power to beat shit up. (this would actually be better placed in the usage tips section) The rest of this section should get revamped too as you spend more time talking about what it does (or rather what it doesn't do) than what teammates actually pair well with it and why.

Checks and Counters: The formatting is wrong. Check out the analysis index for more info.
 
Thief could probably get a minor mention in OO for a more consistent alternative to Knock Off. It also hits Giratina-O and all Arceus forms bar Normal harder than Knock Off.
 
I still feel Defog is worth a slash. It has the bulk to pull it off at least once if you're not dumb enough to try and do it against ScarfOgre or something. You can save your Arceus forme for something more useful than Defog if you do that.
 
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