Special Season 9: 2v2 Doubles

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head


The rules for the Season 9 Special ladder have been announced on the Japanese version of the PGL (English site should update soon), the rules are as follows:
  • Double Battle
  • Bring 6 choose 2; 2v2
  • Level 50
  • Pokebank Pokemon are allowed
  • Standard Battle Spot banlist, except the following are also banned:
    • Z Crystals
    • Mega Stones
    • Eviolite
    • Focus Sash

Lucky for us, 2v2 Doubles was OMotM a while back so we can take inspiration from their thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/2v2-doubles-om-of-the-month.3606989/

However, that metagame allowed Megas, Z moves, Eviolite, Focus Sash (I think), the DOU banlist, and also restricted the full team to 4 instead of 6. So while the metagames will likely he vastly different, we can still use the ideas in that thread!



Spam ideas / gimmicks below
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lucky for us, 2v2 Doubles was OMotM a while back so we can take inspiration from their thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/2v2-doubles-om-of-the-month.3606989/

However, that metagame allowed Megas, Z moves, Eviolite, Focus Sash (I think), the DOU banlist, and also restricted the full team to 4 instead of 6. So while the metagames will likely he vastly different, we can still use the ideas in that thread!
Actually, 2v2 intially allowed Focus Sash, but it was eventually banned because of Deoxys.
 
Z-Moves are considered for a ban, Sash was banned months ago.
Will Ubers be unbanned? Because I am confused as to the way the rules are posted.
Nevertheless have fun!
 
Last edited:
According to serebii:

The Special Battle rules for Season 9 have been revealed. Season 9 will run from March 13th to May 14th 2018 and runs on Sun & Moon and Pokémon Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon, with rankings separate to eachother. This ruleset blocks usage of Mega Stones, Z-Crystals, Focus Sash and Eviolite and you can only select 2 Pokémon for the battle
Battle type: Double Battle
Pokémon Restrictions: National Pokédex. No more than 1 of Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Celebi, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, Deoxys, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Phione, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Keldeo, Meloetta, Genesect, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, Diancie, Hoopa, Volcanion, Cosmog, Cosmoem, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma, Magearna, and Marshadow.
The other standard rules apply, including all set to Level 50 if above that, and you choose 2 Pokémon out of your 6, and you cannot have two Pokémon holding the same hold item. Battles have a 10 minute duration, with turns having a 60 second timer.


This will be very very different to the version here on smogon, mostly because there are a lot more options and power with restricted pokemon. Tapu Lele is legal, while it is banned in the smogon version. I wasn't around when it was legal, but appearently the combination with Deoxys-A was strong, although that is slightly move balanced by the Z move and Focus Sash ban.

Red Orb and Blue Orb are not banned. Both Primals have some very strong weather boosted moves. The fact that these weathers are legal, makes other non primal weather way less viable, because primal weathers override regular weather. I think there certainly will be some type of weather wars, so moves that override abilities or make them activate again (role play, skill swap) and speed on the primals will be important.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
is a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head
According to serebii:

The Special Battle rules for Season 9 have been revealed. Season 9 will run from March 13th to May 14th 2018 and runs on Sun & Moon and Pokémon Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon, with rankings separate to eachother. This ruleset blocks usage of Mega Stones, Z-Crystals, Focus Sash and Eviolite and you can only select 2 Pokémon for the battle
Battle type: Double Battle
Pokémon Restrictions: National Pokédex. No more than 1 of Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Celebi, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, Deoxys, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Phione, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Keldeo, Meloetta, Genesect, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, Diancie, Hoopa, Volcanion, Cosmog, Cosmoem, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma, Magearna, and Marshadow.
The other standard rules apply, including all set to Level 50 if above that, and you choose 2 Pokémon out of your 6, and you cannot have two Pokémon holding the same hold item. Battles have a 10 minute duration, with turns having a 60 second timer.


This will be very very different to the version here on smogon, mostly because there are a lot more options and power with restricted pokemon. Tapu Lele is legal, while it is banned in the smogon version. I wasn't around when it was legal, but appearently the combination with Deoxys-A was strong, although that is slightly move balanced by the Z move and Focus Sash ban.

Red Orb and Blue Orb are not banned. Both Primals have some very strong weather boosted moves. The fact that these weathers are legal, makes other non primal weather way less viable, because primal weathers override regular weather. I think there certainly will be some type of weather wars, so moves that override abilities or make them activate again (role play, skill swap) and speed on the primals will be important.
Just to clarify to everyone, cover legends and mythicals are banned. Serebii is wrong, just like the last time when there was a discrepancy between japanese pgl info and serebii.net
 
Assuming this is anything like normal 2v2 doubles, and I suspect it is, many standard doubles pokemons are viable but run different sets. For instance, Landorus-T is an excellent 2v2 doubles pokemon, but there's no reason to use the scarf set to clean weakened teams so its assault vest and AoA sets see more use (in 2v2 standard, zmoves as well, but those are banned here). Weather and terrains also don't have any reason to run an extender item, so there's more freedom there.
 
In the right matchup, I think that lax can win a lot of games. You can even make that more annoying with ally switch Goth. The interesting thing is that goth wouldn't run shadow tag. Probably Frisk. An alternative Snorlax set that is very similar to that one, is Belly Drum Stockpile.
 
Perish Song is really broken in 2v2, so I would at least bring a 2 mon Perish Song team. Perish Song plus counters to Perish Song counters would probably make a good team.

Perish Song in metas where you can’t switch out is pretty awful
And by awful I mean no fun to play against. I would say don’t bother bringing stall.

Weather can be combated somewhat by Faking Out the Sand Rush/Swift Swim mon and ko’ing the weather setter. That strat generally loses to double Protect though. Otherwise, run your own weather mon to counter Rain and Sun teams. Tyranitar is a good all-around mon that can set your own weather to counter theirs. Tyranitar is also strong against Meloetta, the best Perish Song user. Politoad has access to both Drizzle and Perish Song, which is probably useful.

Pokémon and strats that are good in regular doubles and regular 1v1 don’t stop being good either. Scarf Victini and Starraptor with Final Gambit are both strong. Dragonite, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Snorlax, Landorus-T, etc are probably worth considering just by being strong.

To be honest, I’m not sure how Perish Song won’t dominate, though.
 
Last edited:
Perish Song is really broken in 2v2, so I would at least bring a 2 mon Perish Song team. Perish Song plus counters to Perish Song counters would probably make a good team.

Perish Song in metas where you can’t switch out is pretty awful
And by awful I mean no fun to play against. I would say don’t bother bringing stall.

Weather can be combated somewhat by Faking Out the Sand Rush/Swift Swim mon and ko’ing the weather setter. That strat generally loses to double Protect though. Otherwise, run your own weather mon to counter Rain and Sun teams. Tyranitar is a good all-around mon that can set your own weather to counter theirs. Tyranitar is also strong against Meloetta, the best Perish Song user. Politoad has access to both Drizzle and Perish Song, which is probably useful.

Pokémon and strats that are good in regular doubles and regular 1v1 don’t stop being good either. Scarf Victini and Starraptor with Final Gambit are both strong. Dragonite, Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Snorlax, Landorus-T, etc are probably worth considering just by being strong.

To be honest, I’m not sure how Perish Song won’t dominate, though.
It was pointed out that serebii was incorrect (don't know the source) and that the mythical and legendary pokemon are banned, so Meloetta and Victini won't be legal if that is true.

So about Perish Song teams...
I agree that Perish Song is going to be great. Obviously, a Soundproof pokemon works well, but it has to be bulky and survive long enough.
However, I think it is easier to prepare for something like that, because it is much more obvious what the strategy is, and it also is probably less versatile. I think you want bulky perish song users, and maybe add a trick room setter, so that you can still reverse the speeds if your opponent ends up bringing something slower.

Alternatively you want 1 very fast and 1 very slow pokemon in a perish song core, so that you 'sandwich' your opponent speed wise. You have 1 pokemon that is faster than both of theirs, and one that is slower than both of theirs. Regardless of Trick Room being up or not, one of your pokemon faints last, so that way you counter trick room as a perish song answer.

Finally, I think you may want something to counter Soundproof. I think it comes down to having one of the following moves:
Entrainment, Gastro Acid, Simple Beam, Skill Swap or Worry Seed.

Pokémon that are slow, bulky, have Trick Room and have at least one of the above moves:
Audino-Mega (had it been legal), Musharna, possibly Gourgeist, Slowbro, Slowking, Bronzong, Cresselia (but is likely too fast), Cofagrigus, Gothitelle, Reuniclus, Carbink, Stakataka
You likely have to protect and get the ability off first, so stuff like Taunt, Protect, Substitute seem to ruin this, but I still feel like it is a good option to have.

Pokémon that are fast and bulky enough and have at least one of the above moves should also work. Honorable mention to Durant, because making your opponent unable to move with Truant can really give you a lot of time
Other examples are harder because there aren't many fast bulky pokemon. You can look at prankster pokemon, so either Whimsicott or Meowstic, but I think there are some other options too, I just don't know how bulky you have to be.

Good Perish Song Pokémon:<br />
Lapras: Good bulk
Azumarill: Mostly because you might be able to fit it on a Belly Drum set, just to have options.
Marowak?: It saw use in VGC as tech move, and it has decent bulk.
Politoed and Dewgong: Both have good bulk and get Encore which really punishes protects.
Altaria?: Decent bulk, also has Cloud Nine which can help against prevelant weather teams.
 
This seems like a cool meta, and I was really excited to use docile Kommo-o with soundproof with 252 atk 252 spa and kommonium, then I realized that z-moves are not allowed and that crushed all of my dreams. Because of this (and azu probably being a prevalent perish song mon) I think I might try out my boi Boufallant because it has a decent movepool and it sucks in other cart metas i've seen. Other than that Exploud might be the best soundproof mon because it can hit through sub (not on Stableye but w/e).

Without further ado welcome to M&G's shitty mons emporium! I'm going highlighting probably trash GREAT mons that won't ever work will have super high usage! but hey you have 6 mons for a 2v2 meta why not use a slot or 2 for random mons to confuse your opponent?

First on our list of Trash mons Good Stuff are two mons who offer an interesting take on perish trap teams and how to deal with them!


Bastiodon might be perfect for a perish song team because it has good bulk, and can abuse soundproof so that the team doesn't need to worry about being slower at all in the first place.
Bastiodon @ Iapapa Berry / Air Baloon / something else
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Metal Burst
- Protect
- Wide Guard
- Taunt / Substitute / Torment
Pretty much spam wide guard and protect until you win. The spread makes sure Dastiodon is rarely (6.3%) OHKO'd by 252atk lando-t and have nice physical bulk to tank other ground moves. Metal Burst is obvious so it isn't always deadweight, but might not work the best b/c no sturdy but w/e. Last slot is basically just filler, with slightly diff ways to support its partner.
This set is probably best against either other perish trap teams, or teams who threaten your perish song user with spread moves.


Another niche pick could be Malamar to discourage intimidate from your opponent, and if you do manage to get it out vs 2 intimidate mons the opp won't have a good day.
Malamar @ Roseli Berry
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Throat Chop
- Protect
The bulk + berry is primairly to live a Play Rough from m-mawile oh wait that's banned nvm. Anyways, the bulk is pretty good and the berry is kinda nice to minimize damage from Gardevoir or something for a turn and throat chop in return! Hey! throat chop could be nice in this meta to stop perish trap teams, and malamar is immune to prankster so maybe it'll be pretty good!

Spam ideas / gimmicks below
Just saw this right after making this post and it made my day! :blobthumbsup:<3 cant say <3 :blobthumbsup:
 
Can someone fix the ladder on showdown. Currently allows banned legendaries and mythicals. Really frustrating coming up against all these Arceus!
 
The next batch of bad great mons M&GSME have are neat picks for times when you want a neat weather check / counter on your team!


RAIN. Seeing as rain will be quite popular with kingdra, ludicolo, and Pe-Li-per around, here's a neat check to those rain teams! Also you guys were lucky because if M-pert was allowed you would get a fix of Docile Seismitoad, but alas. (it also took me 45 minutes to figure out m-pert isn't in this meta so lol)
Qwilfish @ Kee Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 28 SpA / 68 SpD / 164 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Poison Jab
- Natural Gift
- Shock Wave
- Protect / Throat Chop
Super wierd stuff, but let me tell you it works!
So the jolly + 164 speed is to outpace max speed Ludi and modest Kingdra, while the 28Spa gaurentees a 2hko on 252hp pe-Li-per with shock wave. 244 atk lets quilfish hit as hard as possible, while maintaining enough special bulk to live a max spa pelliper's hurricane 93.7% of the time.
Speaking of zany Kee berry + Natural Gift grants a one time use 100bp physical fairy attack to bop Kingdra for a decent amount. P-jab has a 75% chance to OHKO un-bulky Ludicolo (not factoring in Poison chance), which all adds up to one niche rain check.


SUN. Sun can always be problematic with the powerful setter zard-y dangit it's banned too I need a new set now... TORKOAL that's a sun setter, or Ninetails! With a Chlorophyl user like venusaur alongside things can get pretty tough, but no worry I have the perfect solution for you! Simply add this anteater-daemon and it can annoy the heck out of sun teams because they can't really touch mons that are immune to fire and resist grass (Heatran [probably does this better but Heatmor is cool too).
Heatmor @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Lash
- Stomping Tantrum
Sock Tomb is in this set to hit a potential specs Charizard for great damage, and is generally nice speed control in other random matchups, and Sucker Punch can finish off things that you didn't end up KOing the previous turn. Fire Lash can KO most grass types that want to abuse chlorophyll too. Stomping Tantrum is a more powerful way to damage the sun setters on the opposing teams.


SAND. Finally we have the wierdest starter I always forget about, who sits in front of sand teams and slurps a jamba juice while excadrill tries futily to berak through this menace.
Chesnaught @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Bulletproof
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 140 Def / 52 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Low Kick / Seed Bomb
- Leech Seed / filler
- Spiky Shield
Bulletproof is for a sludge bomb immunity from something like Naga or Venu. Drain Punch is for nice recovery so Chesnaught can keep eating attacks and hit Excadrill hard. Low kick can be used to OHKO max def t-tar and it hits phat threats pretty hard. the Defence is to take iron head comfortably from Exca (with drain punch especially) and the SpD is to help Chestnaught eat a hit or two from 0 SpA Fire Blast T-tar just in case.

Hail counter: just use good mons lol
 
With the newly released starter abiltities, and the earlier talk about Perish Song, I think it would be interesting to mention that Perish Song from Primarina with Liquid Voice is unaffected on things like Storm Drain, which could be another fun Perish Song Core to play around with. Probably not better than things I mentioned earlier though
 
So what are people playing?

Just looking quickly at GL stats it seems that Perish Song is not as prevalent as I expected it to be, outside of Politoad.
 
So what are people playing?

Just looking quickly at GL stats it seems that Perish Song is not as prevalent as I expected it to be, outside of Politoad.
The usage stats that are out now are just from a few games, so they're not worth much ;) They will be updated in about 10 hours from now.
 

Theorymon

WELCOME TO THE NEW DECADE, WAHOO!
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Moderator
So this thread has been rather inactive, but I want to revive it! I played a lot of this metagame over the past two days, and its totally taken me by surprise. I'm not the biggest fan of 1v1, but 2v2 doubles is a different story. Yes, it can still be match up based in quite a few cases, but the extra Pokemon and the fact that they gotta work together in doubles means that a LOT of matches aren't decided on turn 1. Hell, just choosing an extra Pokemon makes the team preview stage rather exciting, rather than the crapshoot on roids 1v1 is!

Here's what I currently have this season:



Fact is, while this ladder does have some activity issues, this isn't like special season 1 which was stillborn. There's a playerbase for this metagame , and while there are deadzones... this playbase has enacted some of the most creative insanity I've ever seen in a metagame. In fact, to give you a picture: I lost to a high rated player using a Fletchling! And I don't mean "lol a stupid joke", this player legitimately showed that freaking Fletchling of ALL things is a good, niche choice!

This is a pretty alien metagame that still has a lot of exploring left to do. Just looking at the stats can be confusing when you see crazy stuff like Seismetoad, Accelegor, or Hawlucha in the top 30!

So here's what I'm going to do: Around each day starting today, I will make at least one post covering the major strategies of this metagame. This will not only give you guys something to discuss, but also hopefully in about a week, we can all cobble together a decent, unprofessional primer of sorts for anyone whose curious!

Oh one more thing: You'll notice that a lot of Pokemon have very simple EV spreads, or may even lack concrete set. I'm sure there are plenty of specialized ones, but it might involve some searching in the Japanese community. If you see a simple EV spread, don't take it as gospel, doing some damage calcs may do some good! Feel free to post some too, I'll add them in if they're good!

Strategy: Perish Song

I know what a lot of people think when they hear about these sudden death metagames that lack enough Pokemon to switch: "OH NO PERISH SONG!" Not gonna lie: Perish Song is something you need to prepare for, and its incredibly dangerous in the right hands, since the team with the slowest Pokemon at the end of the turn usually wins the Perish Song War! However, it isn't nearly as unstopable feeling as 1v1. There are Pokemon you can use against it that are actually good outside of checking it, and the added teammate factor adds some extremely interesting Pokemon for Perish Song users! Let's go over the setters first!

The Major Perish Song Setters


Politoed

Politoed @ Iron Ball
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Bounce / Dive
- Scald / Surf / Curse / Fissure

Politoed being the most common Perish Songer may be a bit surprising at first when Azumarill exists, but as it turns out, setting up the rain can be a huge difference in match ups! Much like the notorious Azumarill of 1v1, Perish Song Politoed is custom built to stall out stuff as long as possible. Bounce is used more often than Dive, just because the chance for paralysis is more valuable than Dive's better damage against a lot of the faster Pokemon. However, for the more borderline Pokemon getting them paralyzed can make you lose, so Dive is a safer alternative,. Scald is a nice general damage move that can burn stuff, while Surf is cool when using Absorb Bulb Ludicolo or Kingdra. Curse may seem rather.. silly, but against mirror matches or slow Pokemon, Curse can be a life saver so Politoed faints last! Finally, Fissure may seem sorta oxymornic since Perish Song kills anyways, but Fissure can really screw over dedicated Perish Song checks like Snorlax or random Throat Chop BS if lady luck is on your side! Note that Curse and Fissure will require gen 2 and 1 transfers respectively, which means they are not legal with Dive.

Oh yeah, Iron Ball may seem silly, but it allows Politoed to underspeed Weakness Policy Tyranitar, which is HUGE against Sand teams! Sadly, you won't be underspeeding Torkoal, a check against some perish song strats. If you want some more versatility at the cost to losing to some popular slow Pokemon, resist berries are still fine options to consider!


Azumarill

Azumarill @ Iron Ball
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Bounce / Dive
- Scald / Curse / Light Screen

Azumarill @ Iron Ball / Figy Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet / Dive

The notorious master of Perish Songing is still good here, even if it isn't as common as Politoed! Politoed may have an edge in creating weather, but Azumarill's ace in the hole here is that it's a MUCH slower Pokemon. Thanks to its low Speed, it will actually underspeed Snorlax if its holding an Iron Ball! However, it still can't under speed Torkoal without Curse... Anyways, besides the low Speed, the other big thing here is Sap Sipper, which means Grass-types like Tapu Bulu, Kartana, and Lilligant are gonna get smashed, unlike Politoed!

Otherwise, Azumarill works very similarly to Politoed. You set up Perish Song, use either Bounce or Dive (with Bounce risking paralysis, Dive being safer but having past gen legality issues), and generally try to stall out mons. Unlike Politoed, since Azumarill will usually use Sap Sipper when its Perish Song focused (note that offensive Azumarill is still totally viable!), Scald is... honestly really weak and only good for burning stuff. Curse is still pretty nice, since it can let you severely punish Torkoal that lack it themselves, while Light Screen can give you a bit of extra stalling potential in some cases I guess...

Oh yeah, unlike Politoed who has a bit of trouble with this kind of multitasking, Offensive Azumarill can actually get away with using Perish Song! The Attack investment and lack of Sap Sipper means Azumarill won't be as good at the job in some pretty big ways, but it can work well if you need an offensive water-type to deal with foes such as Incineroar, and want to use Perish Song as a more situational bonus.


Primarina

Primarina @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Liquid Voice
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
Relaxed / Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Baby-Doll Eyes / Encore / Reflect / Light Screen
- Moonblast / Hyper Voice

Primarina @ Mystic Water / Life Orb
Ability: Liquid Voice
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Moonblast
- Hydro Cannon / Encore
- Perish Song

Primarina may seem like an inferior Azumarill in this case, but don't be fooled: It's got some really cool, unique tools to set it apart! Liquid Voice as it turns out, makes Perish Song a water type move. This means if you pair Primarina with a Pokemon that has an ability like Water Absorb, Storm Drain, or Dry Skin.. they aren't affected at all! This can totally screw over the whole "use Slow Pokemon to win" strat in some cases, and also means Primarina isn't as desperate to use Iron Ball like Politoed and Azumarill are! It also has some unique support moves. Baby-Doll Eye's priority can give JUST the needed Attack drops to stall out mons better as an example. Since Primarina lacks any two turn invulnerability moves like Dive or Bounce, Encore can be used to punish slower Pokemon, which is especially effective when you got a water immune ally! Of course, screens can work as decent filler moves too. Even without Special Attack investment, its hard to deny that Primarina has a LOT more offense than the average Perish Song user. Moonblast makes sense as a nice, reliable single target attack, but Hyper Voice's spread attack powers are very worthy of consideration too.

Like ,Primarina is capable of using Perish Song WHILE also being an offensive Pokemon too if that suits your fancy. While not as powerful as Huge Power Azumarill, Primarina makes up for it by being quite an effective spread attacker thanks to that Water-typed Hyper Voice! You can also use Hydro Cannon as a last ditch attack against certain sower Pokemon too if you wish.

Oh yeah, you may notice Round... Primarina also works on a totally different strategy that isn't related to Perish Song, by taking advantage of faster Pokemon using Round so Primarina has a powerful priority attack! We'll cover that in more detail another day, but just know that while Primarina isn't as effective at Round as Proygon-Z and Sylveon, it can make for a nasty surprise with Liepard if your foes don't see it coming!

The more niche Perish Song setters


Gengar


Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 220 SpA / 20 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Perish Song
- Trick / Hidden Power Fire / Destiny Bond / Hypnosis

Gengar isn't too common, but it happens to possibly be the best offensive Perish Song user! A lot of them use Choice Scarf, which ensures that it can blast a lot of Tapus out of the way, making Perish Song more of a side thing when paired with a super slow teammate. The given EV spread allows Gengar to survive Choice Scarf Tapu Koko's Thunderbolt, and OHKO it back with Sludge Bomb. You also got a 62% chance of OHKOing Tapu Lele with it too! Trick is also nice for some disruption vs more supportish Pokemon, but Hidden Power Fire lets you really ruin Kartana's day! Destiny Bond is a pro move if you predict correctly too. Hypnosis, while lame to be locked into, can be a bug out option if you think you lose otherwise.

I should note, a more specialized Perish Song Gengar IS around. I only don't list its set because its really inconsistent what support moves it'll be using, and I havent seen it as much. Generally, they max their HP and carry Trick Room to mess with super slow Pokemon after Perish Song is set up, and will usually have Protect and a specific support move. I've also seen them with a ton of different items, from seeds to mental herbs and anything inbetween! If we can come to more of a consensus about the best variants, I'll post them here!


Alolan Marowak

Funnily enough, Alolan Marowak does learn Perish Song, but its usually used as a support to other Perish Song users instead of a setter itself! I don't list its set because honestly I've never seen one out there on the ladder with Perish Song, but just keep your guard up if you see this Pokemon without a Perish Song setter!


Mismagius

Mismagius is an alternative to dedicated Perish Song Gengars. It's mostly a bit worse than Gengar, but it does have the excellent Levitate, which is at least nice for forcing Ground-types to use other moves, even if they can still hit Mismagius hard. Also, Mismagius gets Mystical Fire, which can come in handy for making Special Attackers weaker!



Lapras

Lapras is actually the bulkiest option allowed for Trick Rooming, but you don't see it that often since it's cursed with a secondary Ice-typing, which gives it nasty weaknesses to all the Rock- and Figting-type moves flying around to hit Incineroar. That being said, Lapras can run similar sets to Politoed and Azumarill, with a few unique twists, such as having Freeze Dry for opposing Water-types and a better OHKO move in Sheer Cold.


Murkrow

Murkrow @ Mental Herb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm / BoldNature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Quash
- Substitute / Taunt / Torment / Feather Dance / Foul Play

Murkrow has the unique selling point of having Prankster, which means a nice and fast set up, regardless of what stupid fast Pokemon your opponent may have! You'd think that'd make it more common, but this metagame is actually rather hostile to Murkrow for several reason. First of all, due to Prankster, its possible to block Perish Song with Dark-types and Psychic Terrain, so more Pokemon are immune to its madness than others. Secondly, since Eviolite is banned, Murkrow's defenses are absolute garbage, so it won't be living too long! As a result of these problems, if you want to use Murkrow, you should give it a secondary purpose in case your opponent can block its Perish Song. Quash is a pretty great use if you don't have Sableye, but there are plenty of other support options to choose from as well.

The major teammates of Perish Song

We talked about most of the setters, so lets look at the Pokemon that are often paired with these beasts!


Seismitoad

Seismitoad @ King's Rock
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fling
- Protect
- After You
- Earth Power / Hydro Pump / Sludge Bomb

Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump / Sludge Bomb
- Protect
- After You
- Earth Power / Sludge Bomb

Oh snap, its the other toad bro! Yes, you can use it as a normal offensive swift swimmer just fine, and a lot of people like it more that way since getting Sludge Bomb still gives it an important niche... but we'll focus on the more specalized set above!

So what makes Seismitoad the most common swift swimmer? It has to do with After You. Since Politoed is slow and often use two turn attacks, Seismitoad can use its speed to actually make Politoed go first for the invulnerable turn, but last during the attack. This can screw over anyone who isn't prepared, because they might not be able to get a hit in on Politoed! Any team that can't underspeed Politoed in particular will be in DEEP trouble if they see this!

Going without the Water attack may seem silly, but Earth Power and Sludge Bomb can win you some major match ups. Sludge Bomb can crush the deadly Tapu Bulu (who has EXTREMELY high usage in this metagame!), while Earth Power is effective against Electric-types that want Politoed dead, such as Tapu Koko.


Mimikyu

Mimikyu @ Life Orb / Mental Herb / King's Rock
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Brave Nature
- Play Rough
- Trick Room
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw / Drain Punch / Wood Hammer / Fling

Mimikyu, much like VGC, is a pretty neat Trick Roomer (who for some reason doesn't have a set onsite yet for VGC, oh no!). With Focus Sash banned, Mimikyu is about as reliable of a Trick Roomer you're gonna get, which can really help against slow match-ups! Due to Mimikuium Z being banned though, they tend to use Life Orb. Mental Herb is nice for Taunt though, and you can even use Fling + King's Rock for extra stalling! Due to the sudden death nature of this metagame, you may see more situational attacks such as Drain Punch for Kartana, or Wood Hammer for Water-types as well.


Amoonguss

Amoonguss @ Payapa Berry / Occa Berry / Iapapa Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy / Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Protect
- Clear Smog / Giga Drain / Sludge Bomb

Amoonguss is well aquainted with the world of doubles, but in this land, it can make a real sick partner for Perish Song! Not only is it insanely slow, but Spore is devestatingly effective against some match ups for stalling! It can even use Rage Powder to make Tapu Koko think twice before being chosen. There's also a certain beauty about getting rid of Curse Boosts with Clear Smog, but Sludge Bomb works well with Payapa Berry vs Tapu Lele. Also, while Regenerator in a metagame where you can't switch may seem beyond silly, this is done so Effect Spore doesn't screw up Spore!


Snorlax

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/snorlax/vgc17/ (While don't have a vgc 18 analysis up yet, Snorlax is pretty similar setwise regardless!)

It's hard to get a better slow teammate than Snorlax in this format! Snorlax is extremely bulky, can recover fast thanks to Recycle and Gluttony, and it can even use Curse to compete with being the slowest of them all, while boosting its attack for times you don't use it on Perish Song. However, you can also elect to use a Choice Band set, which is much more viable than usual since this metagame is so fast paced. Some Snorlax even use Selfdestruct for similar reasons!


Torkoal

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/torkoal/vgc17/

Torkoal is run pretty similarly to last year's VGC, except now it can use Earth Power for those pesky Heatran! While it actually isn't used on Perish Song all that much, it can be pretty effective, since it can ruin Tapu Bulu's day, and is so slow not even Iron Ball Azumarill is slower without Curse (which Torkoal also learns lol)! Torkoal itself is the centerpiece of sun in this metagame, and has some strategies associated with that too. Torkoal is also just a damn good Fire-type that functions well under Trick Room with Mimikyu, so its a fine choice on teams with Perish Song modes.


Gigalith

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/gigalith/vgc17/

If you got a craving for using Excadrill as a sweeper, but want a perish song mode, then Gigalith might make more sense for you than Tyranitar. It functions very similarly to last year's VGC, except a lot of them run Iron Ball to mess with Torkoal.



Alolan Muk

https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/muk-alola/vgc17/

Wow, we sure got a lot of blasts from VGC's pasts coming in to help Perish Song, don't we? While Alolan Muk can be made really slow if you want, the real big selling point is that Alolan Muk puts the fear of Arceus into Tapu Bulu's heart, a Pokemon that is a MASSIVE problem for a lot of Trick Room set ups! It can also use Curse to make itself slower, or you can use the dreaded Minimize to leave luck to Nintendo!


Togedemaru

Togedemaru @ Air Balloon / King's Rock / Salac Berry / Expert Belt / Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy / Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Encore
- Zing Zap
- Iron Head / Fling / After You / Spiky Shield

Togedemaru is a fairly effective support partner despite its good Speed. First of all, it gets both Fake Out and Encore, which can be a devastating way to punish slower Protect users (especially with a Salac Berry and Sturdy)! It also just so happens to get 2 30% flinching moves for some nasty hax potential. Togedemaru gets two effective abilities too. Sturdy is the most general choice outside of Perish Song, since having Focus Sash like qualities is very desirable in this metagame, but Lightning Rod when paired with the many Water-type Perish Song users can also be an effective way of shutting down Pokemon that lack Discharge! It even gets others support options, such as Fling + King's Rock for extra flinching, and After You to make Politoed or Azumarill stall slower Pokemon pretty hard with their invulnerability moves!

Niche Teammates


Other Slow Pokemon

I could write a gigantic article on all the good slow Pokemon to consider, but at least know that the ones I listed above are NOT the only usable ones! Feel free to talk about other ones, I might add especially good ones to this list!


Other redirection Pokemon

Volcarona and Togekiss are more offensive alternatives to consider over Amoonguss. Unfortunately, neither are all that slow, and Togekiss in particular shares weaknesses with the best Perish Song setters. However, both Volcarona and Togekiss are great at scaring Tapu Bulu, and Togekiss can actually use Rage Powder to direct Grass-type attacks, an especially useful quality against choiced Kartana!


Alolan Marowak

Ok cool, now its in the right spot! You'll usually see Alolan Marowak used as a more offensive alternative to Togedemaru with Azumarill. It's a pretty nice user of Lightning Rod, and it can scare Tapu Bulu as well. Being immune to Fake Out is also quite nice, though note that other Ghost-types can grief it pretty hard.

Water Immune Pokemon

Despite me mentioning this being a selling point of Primarina's Liquid Voice Perish Song, this strategy isnt nearly as common as you'd think with Primarina. The major one seems to be Jellicent, and I imagine that's partly because Jellicent gets some nice tools such as Trick Room. Cradily also seems interesting, since it doesn't share any weaknesses with Primarina. Notice my speculative tone though: As you can see all the way on the top, my team is actually very hostile to Primarina Perish Song strategies, so I almost never saw people send Primarina in with Water Absorbing mons! If someone has more experience with or against this particular strategy, feel free to write something up!

Soundproof Pokemon

You'd think these would be every where with Perish Song being so powerful, but the only one that's even in the top 100 in usage is Kommo-o... I have seen people unsucessfuly try Soundproof stuff before though, mainly Kommo-o and Electrode of all things lol. Of these Pokemon, I'm guessing Kommo-o and Bouffalant have the most potential, but I could be wrong since this strategy was pretty scarce!


Fletchling... wait WHAT?!

Fletchling @ Flame Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Protect
- Fly
- Tailwind
- Taunt

You thought I was joking about Fletchling, but no: this is actually a legitimate thing I've seen some high rated players use, and it in fact, freaking annihilated me the first time I saw it! This is going to take some explaining...

The idea behind Fletchling is that you preferably pair it with a Perish Song user that can use Trick Room (so Gengar or Mismagius), or you use it only when you predict somewhat fastish Pokemon (remember, Fletchling has a base Speed of 62!). Protect should be used on turn one to activate Flame Orb as Perish Song is set, while Fly is used turn two. As long as you aren't facing any priority Pokemon (though this is why Relaxed is used lol), Fletchling will Fly into the air before a single hit lands.

Now this is where the magic starts: Because Fletchling is burned, Gale Wings no longer works. So this means if Fletchling is facing a decently group of Speedy Pokemon, it just wasted enough time to ruin everyone with Perish Song stalling! Honestly I just took the other two moves from the usage stats, because they're clearly filler.

Ok this is a biiit of a gimmick, since a LOT of teams now a days have slow Pokemon to fight off Perish Song, and setting up Trick Room on turn two with Gengar or Mismagius can be rather painful. However, against teams that emphasize Speed, Fletchling FORCES you to use slower Pokemon or face painful death, meaning even after you shockingly lose to Fletchling (like I did the first time!), it being there in team preview ends up forcing your hand later on!

Fletchling is only just one example of the astonishing creativity this metagame seems to bring out in people, which you'll see over the next few days of my posts!

Next time, on Battle Spot Special!

Phew, this was a long one! A lot of Pokemon just go really well with Perish Song specifically. Don't fret, most other days will be much shorter than this one!

You know, we talked a lot about the value of slow Pokemon in this metagame, but there's much more to this format than Perish Song! Next time, we'll focus on what may be the most popular group of gen 7 Pokemon in competitive play, and the strange Pokemon they caused to get into the top 30 in this metagame...

Tomorrow, get ready to look into the Tapus and the magic of their Terrain Seeds!
 
Last edited:

Theorymon

WELCOME TO THE NEW DECADE, WAHOO!
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Moderator
Here we go again! Sorry this took so long, got a lot of college stuff to do today and tomorrow. Today's post and the next post on Tuesday will be quite a bit shorter than the Perish Song one, but I got no class on Wednesday so I'll make up for it :P.

Anyways, Let's talk about the Tapus, and their terrains!


Tapu Lele

Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock / Dazzling Gleam / Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt

Tapu Lele @ Life Orb
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Shadow Ball / Psyshock / Thunderbolt / Taunt / Ally Switch

Tapu Lele being an ass kicker probably isn't a surprise to most of you. With plenty of power and a terrain that blocks priority, Tapu Lele finds itself as the most common of its brethren. It honestly doesn't work that much differently from VGC / Battle Spot Singles. Of note though, due to terrain seeds being a good deal more common in this metagame, I've noticed more with both Psychic and Psyshock than usual. Choice Specs seems to be the most popular choice, since any team that isn't capable of OHKOing Tapu Lele before it can move are in serious trouble when that's out! Choice Scarf is still good for surprising some important threats though, like non Scarf Kartana and Talonflame (who actually matters here lol). Just note that Tapu Koko will have a field day with its terrain if it doesn't have Scarf itself!

Of course, Life Orb is still damn good, since being able to use Protect can be a life saver in situations that really suck for Lele, like Choice Scarf Kartana or slower terrains with Fake Out. This can also be an excuse to use Tapu Lele's less common support moves, with Taunt shutting down some dedicated Perish Songers and Ally Switch being a horrifying surprise for Steel-types when paired with Fire-types!

Oh yeah, I have heard about bulkier Tapu Lele running around with Assault Vest or Mago Berries. Anyone got any info on that? I get the feeling they aren't just maxing their HP! I unfortunately haven't seen them in action myself yet!


Tapu Bulu

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band / Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Rock Slide
- Horn Leech / Stone Edge / Nature's Madness

Tapu Bulu @ Figy Berry / Grassy Seed / Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12y Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower / Rock Slide / Stone Edge /.Rock Tomb
- Protect / Substitute
- Taunt / Nature's Madness / Disable

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Rock Slide
- Nature's Madness / Zen Headbutt / Stone Edge

Tapu Bulu has always been one of those "cool under rated mons" in singles, but it's recently been going above its meme status in VGC. This season's special goes even further than that, with Tapu Bulu usually being the 2nd most used Tapu! The likely reason for this is due to the lack of switching, Tapu Bulu almost always wins the terrain war (I have yet to see any Iron Ball tomfoolery on the tapus lol)! It also helps that Tapu Bulu is a damn fine check to a lot of Politoed set ups too, since they rely on Seismetoad to either Fling or Sludge Bomb it, which not all of them have.

Choice Band is much more common here than in VGC, because simply put, Tapu Bulu usually just bludgeons stuff to death with Wood Hammer, or uses a coverage move when its in an iffy place. Choice Scarf can still be neat though, but this does mean Bulu often loses the Terrain war. Also, unlike VGC, Adamant might be better on Scarf here, because underspeeding Tapu Koko is a good thing! Also, while it isnt common, I do like smashing Gengar with Zen Headbutt lol

That being said, I think choiceless Bulu is mad under rated here. Figy Berry can make Bulu pretty hard to kill, or Assault Vest for those of you who need to tank special hits at the cost of the precious protect. Hell, if you aren't really intersested in taking advantage of terrain seeds, Tapu Bulu makes a good user of Grassy Seed itself! You can opt for more coverage, but honestly, I quite like Tapu Bulu's support options. Taunt is really rare, and I can't help but find that silly, since its hilarious to shut down Azumarill that way, especially since Tapu Bulu is immune to Rage Powder (watch out though, Amoonguss and Volcarona can still smash Bulu regardless lol). I'm especially fond of Disable, since when paired with an Encore Pokemon, you can force your foes to use Struggle!

Some Pokemon such as Incineroar and Celesteela may try to surprise you by speed creeping. If you're worried about that, you can sacrifice some bulk or power and run 148 Speed EVs to outspeed max Speed Adamant Incineroar, Celesteela, and Tyranitar.

Oh yeah, I know there are some bulkier Leech Seed variants out there. They haven't seem to done much honestly, but if folks think it should be added, I'll do it!


Tapu Koko

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
- Grass Knot / Discharge

Tapu Koko @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Wild Charge
- Brave Bird
- Iron Head
- Nature's Madness / Sky Drop / Hidden Power Fire

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb / Magnet
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
- Discharge / Hidden Power Ice / Taunt / Sky Drop / Electroweb

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb / Magnet
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Wild Charge
- Brave Bird
- Protect
- Sky Drop / Taunt / Hidden Power Fire / Iron Head

Tapu Koko's speed is a bit more of a curse here than usual, since it pretty much always loses the terrain war, making it rather weak at times. However, its crazy speed can still come in real handy at times, especially if you run some anti tapu partners with it! Actually, Tapu Koko in particular can goad people to bring their tapus for bad match ups sometimes...

Regardless, the special sets are pretty similar to VGC, except a lot less people use Volt Switch (no idea why it still has 17% usage outside of lazyness though lol). Discharge here gets special mention for messing with Perish Song + Redirection strats! However, unlike VGC, Tapu Koko actually makes much heavier use of physically based sets than usual. Yes, I know its physical movepool sucks, and so does Intimidate... but physically based sets have better match ups against some VERY important threats! For example, Choice Band can OHKO Tapu Bulu with Brave Bird 68.8% of the time, and also OHKO Tapu Lele with Iron Head. To note some off its quirks: Hidden Power Fire really only for Kartana, and even though it should always have Brave Bird, Sky Drop can still be good filler.

Also unlike VGC, both special and physically based Tapu Koko do use Choice Scarf a lot. This is mostly because there's some major Choice Scarf users like Greninja, Staraptor, and Kartana that have their knives out for Tapu Koko! It also lets Tapu Koko outspeed some major speed demons, such as Unburden Driftblim, Swift Swim Seismetoad, Slush Rush Beartic, Adamant Excadrill, and Modest Chlorophyll Lilligant.


Tapu Fini


Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Muddy Water
- Trick
- Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Protect

Tapu Fini @ Iapapa Berry / Weakness Policy
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 236 HP / 108 Def / 132 SpA / 28 SpD / 4 Spe (probably better EV spreads than the VGC one here)
IVs: 0 Atk
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Muddy Water
- Moonblast
- Protect / Taunt

Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Modest / Timid Nature
- Trick
- Muddy Water
- Moonblast
- Protect / Hidden Power Fire / Soak / Nature's Madness

Tapu Fini might not be quite as popular as it is in VGC, but its still almost just as good! Unlike VGC, you'll see a lot more Trick specs ones than you may expect, since the lack of switching makes Trick much more deadly than usual! Taunt is better than usual too, since it can stop Perish Song's madness cold. Even that gimmicky Scarf set works here too, granted, a lot less of those use Soak from what I can tell. Hidden Power Fire can be nice on that for blasting slower Kartana especially. Otherwise, if you know how to use Tapu Fini in VGC, you got a good idea what this does in special!

The Unburdened Seedlings

Anything can use a Terrain Seed, but these Pokemon are probably the most notorious users of them. Because they have Unburden, their speed is guaranteed to be doubled for the rest of the match thanks to the lack of switching, and terrains activating them immediately! I'll cover all of them in some form: the three ones that are top 30 in usage (seriously!), two obscure ones I've seen but can mostly only speculate on, and two ones I've never seen before!

The top seeds



Accelgor @ Psychic Seed / Grassy Seed / Misty Seed / Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Encore
- Final Gambit
- Acid Spray / Struggle Bug / Bug Buzz / Hidden Power Fire / Rain Dance / Yawn

Accelgor seems pretty unassuming at first, but its got a really evil set up for this metagame! First of all, 145 base Speed doubled is frankly absurd, and outspeeds everything relevant. Secondly, it gets Encore, so if you manage to say, use Protect vs a Fake Out, Acclegor is usually able to SEVERELY punish them! Lastly, Accelegor's base 80 HP and Final Gambit can really make team selection tough for your opponent, since it OHKOs a lot of prominent offensive Pokemon, such as all the Tapus, Torkoal, Kartana, and Greninja.

You got a lot of filler moves to choose from. Acid Spray is extremely common since Tapu Lele is the most common partner, but Struggle Bug is actually nice since its basically a Snarl that Taunt fails to stop (but also doesn't hit Shedinja lol). Bug Buzz is an alright STAB, though it will be weak since there's no Special Attack investment, while Hidden Power Fire blasts Kartana. You can even choose to mess with opposing weather set ups using Rain Dance, especially handy vs Torkoal teams! There's also Sandstorm, but I've never seen it use that before lol. Yawn is cool too, since the lack of switches mean as long as misty or electric terrain fail to go up, it can screw a mon over! Finally, if you really hate Protect, Accelgor can use Feint to break it.

As for the tapus that make sense to pair Accelgor with, Tapu Lele is by far the most used. This set up can severely punish Aegislash if you manage to catch out in its blade forme, since Accelgor can just punish its attempt to use King's Shield with Encore! Acid Spray can also let Tapu Lele deal massive damage. Just note though, some of the bulky Pokemon like Celesteela and Snorlax can win out here. Plus, Psychic Terrain is nice for fighting against Talonflame, whose a big problem for Accelgor!

Tapu Bulu is the 2nd most common, mostly because Tapu Bulu gets Disable, which works amazingly with Encore. They do share some big weakness though, such as to Talonflame and bulky Incineroar. Tapu Fini still enjoys Accelgor's support a lot from Acid Spray, and even surprise nuking Kartana with Hidden Power Fire. As a plus, Tapu Fini does better vs most Steels and Incineroar than the previous two tapus. Finally, I guess Tapu Koko could hypothetically work, but I've only seen that combination once, and I don't like the fact that Final Gambit doesn't KO bulky Landorus-T, since it forces Tapu Koko to use Dazzling Gleam on the same turn to take care of it!

Overall, Accelgor is pretty terrifying just for Encore and Final Gambit alone, but it can be a bit of a one trick pony, since I imagine a fully offensive set probably has a hard time working. Even then, Final Gambit and Encore are so scary that it often has a pretty heavy influence on your foe's Pokemon choices, so that's probably why it has high usage!


Drifblim

Drifblim @ Electric Seed / Misty Seed / Psychic Seed / Grassy Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Phantom Force
- Protect
- Ally Switch / Disable / Tailwind / Will-O-Wisp

Drifblim @ Electric Seed / Misty Seed / Psychic Seed / Grassy Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
- Protect / Weather Ball
- Ally Switch / Disable / Will-O-Wisp / Sunny Day / Rain Dance

Some of you may reconize Driftblim from last year's VGC, but don't be fooled: most Driftblim tend to actually be offensive in this format! As strange of an idea as an offensive support Driftblim is, it works much better than you'd think. Despite its mediocre offensive stats, Acrobatics actually does a decent chunk to most offensive Pokemon. Phantom Force is really rad in doubles since it actually nukes Protect and King's Shield, meaning it can actually be hard to avoid getting hit unless you're a Normal-type! Hell, it actually usually OHKOs Tapu Lele that don't invest in bulk, which is incredible match-up wise!

Driftblim has a ton of support moves in general, so much so that plenty of them actually replace Protect with an extra one! Ally Switch is very popular due to its horrific mindgame powers, but I personally love how much chaos Disable can cause with the tapus! Tailwind is still fine, especially with the slower tapus, though its sorta useless verses Perish Song teams. Will-O-Wisp is a great filler move when not using Tapu Fini, burning some annoying stuff like Kartana and Landorus-T. I should also note that while super rare, there are a few special driftblim flying around. They do worse against Tapu Lele and Aegislash which is a huge bummer, but its neat against Kartana, and I actually saw two of them use Weather Ball + manual weather setting for screwing around with other weather teams!

I personally like Driftblim the most with Tapu Koko, since Acrobatics hits Grass-types hard, and its fun to Disable Landorus-T's Earthquakes! Tapu Fini is no slouch either, being a big help against the dreaded Incineroar, also liking Acrobatics, and giving Driftblim a meaty Special Defense boost that lets it survive Choice Scarf Greninja's Ice Beam! Tapu Lele is neat since Phantom Force can really mess with Aegislash's mind, but note that bulky Steel-types are a big problem for both of them. Tapu Bulu is in a similar boat honestly, though double disable sounds interesting.

Overall, Driftblim is your bulkiest choice for Unburden. It's not too bulky, but the seeds really help make it difficult to OHKO without boosting items! If you want to invest in more bulk, just note that Speed boosting natures need 76 Speed EVs to outspeed Timid Choice Scarf Tapu Lele, and neutral nature ones need 164 Speed EVs. Also, while Acrobatics is awesome, Driftblim can show its lack of good attacking power against anything that resists Flying, especially when Intimidate is on the field.


Hawlucha

Hawlucha @ Psychic Seed / Electric Seed / Misty Seed / Grassy Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Encore
- High Jump Kick / Superpower
- Detect / Sky Drop / Ally Switch / Throat Chop / Taunt / Feint

Hawlucha may be really frail, but it makes up for it by having the dreaded Encore! Acrobatics is a nice STAB too, 2HKOing most offensive Pokemon. High Jump Kick is usually bad news in doubles, but Encore tends to make people wary of using Protect, so its possible to get away with. Superpower is a safer alternative however. Detect may seem obvious to take advantage of Encore, and also due to Hawlucha's frailness, but a lot of them actually ditch it for support moves! Sky Drop is honestly pretty incredible, since its such a disruptive move when you only have two Pokemon! Ally Switch, as usable, has a knack for ruining people. For folks that hate Perish Song, Hawlucha gets both Throat Chop and Taunt. Finally, Feint comes in handy for smashing through Protects!

The most common Tapu here is Lele. Thanks to Encore and the SpD boost, Hawlucha does a great job messing with Aegislash provided that Tapu Lele has Protect, and Hawlucha also has has just enough power to OHKO offensive Kartana and seriously maim Snorlax. Next up is Tapu Koko, who appreciates the Acrobatics to Tapu Bulu's face, and Hawlucha returns the favor by dealing serious damage to Incineroar and annihilating Tyranitar. While not as common, Tapu Fini does fine with Hawlucha, once again liking that Tapu Bulu gets hit into the KO range of its attacks, though this set up is pretty weak to Tapu Kokos. Finally, Tapu Bulu isn't seen all that much with Hawlucha, but Encore + Disable is still a pretty sweet strat!

Hawlucha's lack of bulk and weakness to Fairies are pretty serious problems, but Encore goes a long way towards making up for it, making it a more versatile (but less suicidal) version of Accelgor. The given EV spread allows Hawlucha to outspeed Timid Lilligant in the sun, but if you want more bulk, consider running 36 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature to reach that point with less EVs.

The niche seedlings

Honestly I've only seen two Uburden mons out of the 4 in this list. I'll list the sets for the two I've seen, but these are much less common than the top 3.


Hitmonlee

Hitmonlee @ Misty Seed / Grassy Seed / Electric Seed
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Protect
- Poison Jab / Knock Off / Rock Slide / Rain Dance

I saw this thing twice, though not using its most common moves according to the stats. Hitmonlee has by far the highest offensive stat for an Unburden mon, and with Close Combat, Snorlax can kiss its ass goodbye! I like that it gets Poison Jab too so it can pick off weakened Tapus, but man this thing looks like it has serious Aegislash problems lol. I like the idea of using it with Fini and setting up Rain Dance at least, or using it with Tapu Koko to Poison Jab Tapu Bulus. If anyone tests this, this is probably the one Unburden mon you don't want to use with Tapu Lele, because Fake Out is a pretty unique selling point!


Sceptile

Sceptile @ Grassy Seed / Misty Seed / Electric Seed / Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power Fire
- Detect
- Leaf Storm / Focus Blast

I also saw this one twice. Grass seems sorta neat since Sceptile probably gives Tapu Fini the most trouble out of all unburden mons bar Accelgor's Final Gambit, and Sceptile seems pretty nasty for Politoed Perish Song teams too. Still though, it feels sorta plain as an attacker compared to the crazy support options the other Unburden Pokemon get. Not sure I feel this, but let me know if it works folks! Also, physically based ones are used more according to stats, which I find really perplexing outside of fast Rock Slide flinches lol


Slurpuff

Ok I've never seen this before! According to the stats, seems like the few times Slurpuff was used, it was some sort of Fake Tears support for Tapu Lele that ran Flamethrower to blast Kartana. I guess that seems workable for Tapus, but I'm not sure if I'm that impressed. It gets Yawn too, hmmmm....


Liepard

EWWWWWWWW! Look, Liepard is actually common in this metagame, but Unburden sucks on it. It's used because of Prankster!

That's it for now folks, sorry for the wait! Next time, after today's class, I'll get onto weather in this metagame!
 

DreamPrince

Formerly Leader Wallace
Does anyone have a QR code for team that plays in this format? I want to play in it, but I don't have time to build a team.
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head
Does anyone have a QR code for team that plays in this format? I want to play in it, but I don't have time to build a team.
I've used this one on stream quite a bit: https://3ds-sp.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/usum/BT-4B13-A213 it's really fun and easy to use. It's pretty self explanatory but check out my twitch if you need to see how it works

I've been planning to try this one next: https://3ds-sp.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/usum/BT-4599-B164 the Fletchling + Perish Song gimmick seems really fun, Theorymon explained how that works in his post above. Mat Block + Fling King's Rock Gren seems fun too. I'm not really sure about Hawlucha because it seems kinda weak but fast Encore is pretty fun.

There's lots of 2v2 QR teams if you search for 2v2-specific gimmicks, so find something that looks cool in the usage stats and go from there!
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top