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NOC Secret Hitler Mafia - Game Thread [FASCISTS WIN]
- Thread starter Dead by Daylight
- Start date
I'm pretty sure we didn't even need to have this night happen given that no one but the mafia can do anything and they knew they were getting 10 policies and an extra kill
Shoot town and win by default.
Even shooting me town never gets to pass 2 liberal policies unless there are literally 5 liberal ones in the bag (1/243).
End my suffering, please
Shoot town and win by default.
Even shooting me town never gets to pass 2 liberal policies unless there are literally 5 liberal ones in the bag (1/243).
End my suffering, please
my apologies, work was a time today 
obviously i can’t sit here and pretend to be town after single-handedly passing 4 fascist policies but i will say we have to wait until 9 unfort
obviously i can’t sit here and pretend to be town after single-handedly passing 4 fascist policies but i will say we have to wait until 9 unfortsuffering ends in three hours though. so some redemption at least
You couldn't pretend to be town after two fascist policies lmaomy apologies, work was a time today
Carl's got processed as a dayvig, what changed lol?
GAME OVER
A shot goes off from a hidden pistol in the government chamber. As the gallery turns to the sound, you see the long-suffering Blazade fall to the ground, his final attempt to incite a riot failing in a spectacular fashion. He was the last Anarchist.
At this, the final Liberal, AngryPidgeon, throws up his hands and flees the chamber. Word goes out that he fled to London in the coming days, as the Fascists go on a rampage.
thechickening stands triumphantly on the president's podium. Sometime later and somewhere nearby, you see a fairy stride up and take the podium to give a speech.
The Fascists have won.
----------------------------
Thanks to everyone for playing. My apologies for how this game turned out; at least I've got some hosting experience. To the peanut gallery and all players, go enjoy Nuxl's game - I don't mind if you get this game out of your memory as fast as possible (I know I will). We got some new players this game, which was certainly a nice sight to see.
Thanks again.
A shot goes off from a hidden pistol in the government chamber. As the gallery turns to the sound, you see the long-suffering Blazade fall to the ground, his final attempt to incite a riot failing in a spectacular fashion. He was the last Anarchist.
At this, the final Liberal, AngryPidgeon, throws up his hands and flees the chamber. Word goes out that he fled to London in the coming days, as the Fascists go on a rampage.
thechickening stands triumphantly on the president's podium. Sometime later and somewhere nearby, you see a fairy stride up and take the podium to give a speech.
The Fascists have won.
----------------------------
Thanks to everyone for playing. My apologies for how this game turned out; at least I've got some hosting experience. To the peanut gallery and all players, go enjoy Nuxl's game - I don't mind if you get this game out of your memory as fast as possible (I know I will). We got some new players this game, which was certainly a nice sight to see.
Thanks again.
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hugs 
please tell me noc is normally more fun than this
its supposed to be!
#blazadeisfreed
Postgame:
My worst NOC mafia experiences have had:
-Terminal idlers that are impossible to read or deal with for weeks leading to an endgame where I feel like I'm screaming into the void.
-Me as uninformed scum so I sit here having to scumhunt properly just to figure out who my buddies are, before accidentally killing my Don anyway (shoutout Amnesiac Mafia, not something I expected to relive anytime soon)
-Unbalanced setup to the point where it feels like I have no chance to win, but I try really hard anyway.
And this one had all three! I don't blame anyone for this, a lot of the inactivity was emergent from the experimental setup, a lot of the hosting was emergent from the inactivity and signup cuts that had to be made, and there were a lot of good ideas here. But days should not be ended with one total vote out of 10 being cast as the decider to kill someone. Townies should not be taking orders from openly claimed scum (even if it did work out!). Games as a whole should not be decided by coinflips in the endgame.
Setup:
-Here's where I get to go off about math. The incentives for policy proposal and the math around it are all wrong. The president shouldn't be able to see policies before the chancellor is elected. And 3-2-1 policies is a lot tighter than 5-4-2 as numbers from president to chancellor to law. It's really really difficult to have 2 fascist policies pass without that 13% hit of all 5 drawn. It's even kind of difficult to get 1-1 when passing to a liberal or anarchist chancellor (which is most of the game), and this can't be seen as an unqualified win for the fascists. If you ran this game 100 times the fascists would nearly never win a legislative victory on numbers alone.
-This is not even accounting for the fact that town has three PRs with almost no functionality in the game to warrant their protection as a game piece. With no rule preventing multiple elections of the same chancellor in a row, and no way to stop town from having a hard clear, it's insane that we went as long as we did without mass claiming. You can't even counterclaim all these guys cause then the VTs become nearly conftown, there aren't enough mafia to cover them! So bad policies can never be a chancellor's fault. A fascist has to randomly roll president, not get 3+ liberal policies (20%) then somehow convince people to elect a non confirmed town or convince them that it wasn't their fault that too many bad policies floated up. And the random policy thing that saber did is a huge exploit on this! Any fascist claiming they had no choice but to send bad policies should be admonished if they don't send them randomly. This makes lying very hard!
-Voting even once is liable to crater town's chances if they misvig on the first bonus track, as Carl did. Given how easy it is to win, town should simply almost never vote for an execution. This makes it nearly impossible to be productive as an anarchist. You bide your time, and for what? To lose to a policy victory weeks later? But you're the only one in the game who NEEDS to vote. You're putting your heart on your sleeve and even one anarchist death craters your chances. (The faction with 2 alive at 4p can always prevent you from winning). No voting is also a really really deflating thing to be optimal. Rather than discuss you just sit around and wait for the next president. Why have opinions? You aren't voting...
-Incidentally it's also basically impossible for Anarchists to win with 2 because whatever bad things are happening, the rest of the game can and will vote no execution at 5 and there's nothing we can do to stop it. In any Anarchist-possible endgame fascists have full knowledge of all factions, a vote stop which is basically a dayvig, and control over the last active kill in the game.
-There is one relevant action at night, the Anarchist street justice. It can be blocked by the mafia JK and the town JK or hijacked by the bus drive. In most cases executing this kill should be literally impossible because anytime the kill is obvious enough for the two of us to agree it should be obvious enough for one of the THREE relevant people who can stop it to wake up and do so. Their abilities may be one shot, but what else are they using it for? This is the only way anarchists can even conceivably win on 5 players left and it's extremely unreliable. Good luck getting to 5 without blowing your load early, though...we never would have had vote control without having to burn this and miraculously succeeding.
-Optimal gameplay leads to a LOT of RNG as the deciding factor. Random presidents, random policies, random chancellors. A blind random president even gets a kill most of the time! Presidents can purposefully idle to rand their policies publicly. Voters can stall to rand chancellors, and essentially have to in most sane endgames. I don't mind luck based games. I play Magic and Poker and shit. But this is kind of a lot for a social deduction game, especially when it matters most.
Hosting:
I know some of this came about from game apathy, but here are some tips for future games:
-Don't invisibly retcon things and update sheets without announcements. Interactions and roles were changing all the time, and I eventually learned to be obsessive enough to check the sheet regularly and try to remember if things had changed. But I shouldn't have to do that, and I have no reason to expect things are different if you don't announce it.
-Try to make roles and mechanics clearer upon a single reading of the google sheet. Many aspects of the timing and mechanics were a surprise to me even after asking multiple questions. Many others were changed midgame. Every game is going to need clarifications, some others are going to need midgame rulings and changes, and all that is okay. But it was clear to me upon signing up that I didn't know how everything worked and I get responses like "no, this is really easy and simple", only to find out, yes, I didn't know how half of the game worked.
-If nights have a number of relevant actions I can count on one finger (and days have a similar number of votes), it really shouldn't be hard to post timely updates and project that you care about your game at least as much as your players. People notice if it seems like a host is fucking done with this shit and they respond in kind. I know a lot went poorly to deflate things but it's important to still project a positive energy even in these circumstances.
Things I like:
-I think it's cool to have a game about things that aren't just voting and nightkilling and to introduce actions that create public evidence. Doing Bayes Rule and using it to add to social reads is fun!
-I think it's cool to have a 3p that wants to create balance and prevent the game from ending. Maybe a different sidequest than killing everyone makes sense, but not having them care about the policies is cool because it messes with the Bayes Rule math: you don't know what they're supposed to do!
-When people did engage I appreciated the contributions. Saber was a great anarchist partner and I failed to listen to his signals properly. Sorry for shooting you, LMAO! Thanks for recruiting me, I did my best! Evie, Carl, Thechickening were all very pleasant people to play NOC with who I had not before. AP is very savvy as always, and AF is always a pleasure to talk to.
Alright, that's my rant. It's long but I'd say that I earned it at this point. Genuinely, thank you DBD for hosting this game. I did feel that you had great ideas and cared about the setup and wish the full game had gone through. I respect the moxy and will never be too harsh with an experimental setup. I wish you the best when hosting your your next games.
My worst NOC mafia experiences have had:
-Terminal idlers that are impossible to read or deal with for weeks leading to an endgame where I feel like I'm screaming into the void.
-Me as uninformed scum so I sit here having to scumhunt properly just to figure out who my buddies are, before accidentally killing my Don anyway (shoutout Amnesiac Mafia, not something I expected to relive anytime soon)
-Unbalanced setup to the point where it feels like I have no chance to win, but I try really hard anyway.
And this one had all three! I don't blame anyone for this, a lot of the inactivity was emergent from the experimental setup, a lot of the hosting was emergent from the inactivity and signup cuts that had to be made, and there were a lot of good ideas here. But days should not be ended with one total vote out of 10 being cast as the decider to kill someone. Townies should not be taking orders from openly claimed scum (even if it did work out!). Games as a whole should not be decided by coinflips in the endgame.
Setup:
-Here's where I get to go off about math. The incentives for policy proposal and the math around it are all wrong. The president shouldn't be able to see policies before the chancellor is elected. And 3-2-1 policies is a lot tighter than 5-4-2 as numbers from president to chancellor to law. It's really really difficult to have 2 fascist policies pass without that 13% hit of all 5 drawn. It's even kind of difficult to get 1-1 when passing to a liberal or anarchist chancellor (which is most of the game), and this can't be seen as an unqualified win for the fascists. If you ran this game 100 times the fascists would nearly never win a legislative victory on numbers alone.
-This is not even accounting for the fact that town has three PRs with almost no functionality in the game to warrant their protection as a game piece. With no rule preventing multiple elections of the same chancellor in a row, and no way to stop town from having a hard clear, it's insane that we went as long as we did without mass claiming. You can't even counterclaim all these guys cause then the VTs become nearly conftown, there aren't enough mafia to cover them! So bad policies can never be a chancellor's fault. A fascist has to randomly roll president, not get 3+ liberal policies (20%) then somehow convince people to elect a non confirmed town or convince them that it wasn't their fault that too many bad policies floated up. And the random policy thing that saber did is a huge exploit on this! Any fascist claiming they had no choice but to send bad policies should be admonished if they don't send them randomly. This makes lying very hard!
-Voting even once is liable to crater town's chances if they misvig on the first bonus track, as Carl did. Given how easy it is to win, town should simply almost never vote for an execution. This makes it nearly impossible to be productive as an anarchist. You bide your time, and for what? To lose to a policy victory weeks later? But you're the only one in the game who NEEDS to vote. You're putting your heart on your sleeve and even one anarchist death craters your chances. (The faction with 2 alive at 4p can always prevent you from winning). No voting is also a really really deflating thing to be optimal. Rather than discuss you just sit around and wait for the next president. Why have opinions? You aren't voting...
-Incidentally it's also basically impossible for Anarchists to win with 2 because whatever bad things are happening, the rest of the game can and will vote no execution at 5 and there's nothing we can do to stop it. In any Anarchist-possible endgame fascists have full knowledge of all factions, a vote stop which is basically a dayvig, and control over the last active kill in the game.
-There is one relevant action at night, the Anarchist street justice. It can be blocked by the mafia JK and the town JK or hijacked by the bus drive. In most cases executing this kill should be literally impossible because anytime the kill is obvious enough for the two of us to agree it should be obvious enough for one of the THREE relevant people who can stop it to wake up and do so. Their abilities may be one shot, but what else are they using it for? This is the only way anarchists can even conceivably win on 5 players left and it's extremely unreliable. Good luck getting to 5 without blowing your load early, though...we never would have had vote control without having to burn this and miraculously succeeding.
-Optimal gameplay leads to a LOT of RNG as the deciding factor. Random presidents, random policies, random chancellors. A blind random president even gets a kill most of the time! Presidents can purposefully idle to rand their policies publicly. Voters can stall to rand chancellors, and essentially have to in most sane endgames. I don't mind luck based games. I play Magic and Poker and shit. But this is kind of a lot for a social deduction game, especially when it matters most.
Hosting:
I know some of this came about from game apathy, but here are some tips for future games:
-Don't invisibly retcon things and update sheets without announcements. Interactions and roles were changing all the time, and I eventually learned to be obsessive enough to check the sheet regularly and try to remember if things had changed. But I shouldn't have to do that, and I have no reason to expect things are different if you don't announce it.
-Try to make roles and mechanics clearer upon a single reading of the google sheet. Many aspects of the timing and mechanics were a surprise to me even after asking multiple questions. Many others were changed midgame. Every game is going to need clarifications, some others are going to need midgame rulings and changes, and all that is okay. But it was clear to me upon signing up that I didn't know how everything worked and I get responses like "no, this is really easy and simple", only to find out, yes, I didn't know how half of the game worked.
-If nights have a number of relevant actions I can count on one finger (and days have a similar number of votes), it really shouldn't be hard to post timely updates and project that you care about your game at least as much as your players. People notice if it seems like a host is fucking done with this shit and they respond in kind. I know a lot went poorly to deflate things but it's important to still project a positive energy even in these circumstances.
Things I like:
-I think it's cool to have a game about things that aren't just voting and nightkilling and to introduce actions that create public evidence. Doing Bayes Rule and using it to add to social reads is fun!
-I think it's cool to have a 3p that wants to create balance and prevent the game from ending. Maybe a different sidequest than killing everyone makes sense, but not having them care about the policies is cool because it messes with the Bayes Rule math: you don't know what they're supposed to do!
-When people did engage I appreciated the contributions. Saber was a great anarchist partner and I failed to listen to his signals properly. Sorry for shooting you, LMAO! Thanks for recruiting me, I did my best! Evie, Carl, Thechickening were all very pleasant people to play NOC with who I had not before. AP is very savvy as always, and AF is always a pleasure to talk to.
Alright, that's my rant. It's long but I'd say that I earned it at this point. Genuinely, thank you DBD for hosting this game. I did feel that you had great ideas and cared about the setup and wish the full game had gone through. I respect the moxy and will never be too harsh with an experimental setup. I wish you the best when hosting your your next games.
Last edited:
