Pokémon Serperior

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There's always Energy Ball if you want a stronger grass-type special move that doesn't drop your SpA. 90BP compared to giga drain's 75.
eh...
This Ability causes all effects that would lower a stat to increase it instead, and all effects that would increase a stat to decrease it instead.
Leaf Storm Contrary doesn't drop SpA by 2 stages, but rises it by 2 stages. That's the only reason why this pokemon is being discussed.
 
Okay so check this out guys

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-194939070

+Albacore: and that was wishtect lol, softboil loses even harder
+Albacore: b/c no protect to rack up toxic
+Albacore: this thing is like manaphy 2.0
TerrorDave: it's a fucking savage

yeah Chansey is not a Serperior counter lol... besides Heatran and SpD Talon what does Stall have for this thing?

(and before you say Unaware Clefable :

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Clefable: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

so it needs to run SpD to actually beat it which they usually don't...)
 
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...but, but... wasn't the whole POINT to drop SpA? With Contrary? Not really sure why you'd use Energy Ball over either Giga Drain OR Leaf Storm, besides PP maybe. :?
eh...
This Ability causes all effects that would lower a stat to increase it instead, and all effects that would increase a stat to decrease it instead.
Leaf Storm Contrary doesn't drop SpA by 2 stages, but rises it by 2 stages. That's the only reason why this pokemon is being discussed.

I was referring to Sceptile, not Serperior:

Now you might be asking why I compared Giga Drain to Leaf storm, obviously the latter will hit harder. Well the reason is that in comparing their roles as offensive cleaners, Giga Drain is the only move Sceptile CAN use. If it uses Leaf Storm, it is forced to switch out. That immediately rules out the ability to clean with it.

I should've cropped out the irrelevant parts of that quote earlier.
 
I was referring to Sceptile, not Serperior:



I should've cropped out the irrelevant parts of that quote earlier.

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 160-189 (46.9 - 55.4%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 192-227 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You still out-damage it by a lot. Not sure why running Energy Ball is relevant here.
 
Damn, I completely forgot Contrary had any use besides raising Sp.Atk - completely forgot about Defog and Sticky Web. Or I guess the occasional switch into and (un)lucky activation of something like Shadow Ball or Crunch and getting a Def or Sp.Def boost, haha. Are there any particular users of Defog that Serperior can force out/set up on after switching in? I suppose you can threaten Lati@s with a speedy Dragon Pulse or Glare, except...
252 SpA Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 102-122 (33.8 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (without Life Orb)
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 133-159 (44.1 - 52.8%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 133-159 (44.1 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not excessively reliable, then. Aaaand
252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 198-234 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 257-304 (87.4 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

*sigh* Not the safest of switches, really.
 
Sap Sipper Azumarill is usable in stall and completely counters Serperior.
I have never seen sap sipper used on a legit competitive team on a good part / high ladder, let alone on a stall team. If you are to use azumarill defensively, it is by far the best to use Thick Fat to better counter Mega Charizard X.
Anyway, Serperior seems like it will carve an interesting niche in OU from this massive upgrade as well as its great Speed tier. Agreeing with everything that has been said so far :P
 
Whilst magnezone is as cliche as it gets it makes a great partner as in conjunction with knock off on Serperior it removes the need for hp fire, making HP rock/ground good options for additional coverage and reduced Serperior switch ins.
 
Tail Glow Manaphy is one of the most threatening 'mons to M-Sableye / M-Slowbro stall right now; Contary Serpior is reminding me a lot of Manaphy as a wallbreaker. Both are equipped to beat M-Sableye, M-Slowbro, and Chansey 1v1, putting pressure from there on mons like Cresselia and even Zapdos. The problem is that Serpior is piss weak without a LO, piss weak without the +2, piss weak even after the +2, and it can't take a hit and it loses 20-30% in LO recoil while setting up. Its coverage options are literally Dragon Pulse and HP, which means you either get walled by Ferro or you get walled by Heatran depending on your coverage. Without LO - think sub / lefties - it doesn't break Unaware Clefable even after Rocks.

Seems like a much worse version of TG Manaphy with a better speed tier. At least it can't be as immediately shut down by TrickGoth, and it outspeeds the Latis, Genies, and Keldeo, but its frailty is worrisome. I do like the idea of Leaf Storm and Giga Drain to aid its longeity as Albacore posted.
 
Sap Sipper Azumarill is usable in stall and completely counters Serperior.
Why would you ever take all the good out of Azumarill to counter one okayish pokemon?

Just use Unaware Clefable, but I really doubt it this guy will shake up OU. Low tiers, probably, but not OU.

Edit: I do want to welcome and congratulate Desuchan though. This is a very well put together post for a first time. Kudos.
 
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Serperior's not too frail really... Besides those weaknesses, which are standard, and that LO recoil on setup, which isn't for most Pokémon. And it really does set it back, especially taking into account chip damage from whatever it is setting up on. IMO you might need Giga Drain on LO sets to offset that? But otherwise I really like Glare, as it gives Serp a proper niche.

I can't see the point of choice sets. 3 out of 4 of your moves will be a waste of a Pokémon, and even if you use Leaf Storm you're more than likely forced out afterwards, wasting the boost.
 
It's about fucking time this thing is released lol, although it would have been a much better addition to the tier come last gen when Sand and rain was basically everywhere.

serperior.gif

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ground
- Substitute / Glare

The sets in the OP are pretty bad tbh. One of Serp's biggest selling points is that once it grabs a few boosts it can switch up moves if it has to while still hitting hard. Locking it into a move that's resisted by so many Pokemon is a huge disadvantage, and on top of that if it ever locks itself into a coverage move it basically gives any set up sweeper a free set up opportunity. Leftovers and max HP are also a pretty poor choice, because without LO it's very weak, and not taking advantage of its fantastic speed tier is a pretty big disappointment. Like many have already said, Mega Sceptile is definitely the superior Grass-type all around because of its insane coverage, blazing Speed stat, hitting harder right off the bat, immunity to Thundy's T-wave, and dual STAB. However, as long as there are a shit ton of viable mega evolutions in OU to choose from, Serperior makes for a great replacement if you want a fast Grass-type but can't afford to run Mega Scep because you're already using a mega. The biggest problem with Serperior is that depending on what Hidden Power it runs, it's always going to be hard walled by very common Pokemon no matter what. Hidden Power Fire gives it the most coverage, as it is able to OHKO Ferrothorn and Skarmory after a Leaf Storm as well as heavily denting Mega Metagross, Magnezone, Scizor, and Klefki. Hidden Power Rock is a close second coverage wise, because otherwise Serp basically allows Talon, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Zard-Y a free switch in or set up opportunity. Hidden Power Ground is still a very good option too, as you're able to still nail a few Steel- and Fire-types, but with the added advantage of OHKOing specially defensive Heatran after a Leaf Storm, which is otherwise considered a complete hard counter to this thing. So although it's always going to be walled by something, your opponent has to scout what Hidden Power Serp is running, which actually gives any Serp player a shit ton of momentum early on. Substitute and Glare are merely fillers, but Sub is really nice because it can ease prediction and protect it from status, while Glare can smack predicting switch-ins such as Talon, Pinsir, or Zard-Y with a paralysis.

I actually see a lot of potential in Serperior. The biggest problem with Serp is that it needs at least one boost under its belt to be all that threatening, so it might not be able to find a TON of opportunities to come in for free and spam Leaf Storm seeing as how much of the metagame resists it, however it's actually relatively bulky, which is a perk. I can see it being a solid B+ threat, simply because it has the potential to be a great cleaner as well as a check to some pretty notable Pokemon such as Keldeo, Azumarill, Mega Slowbro, Mega Sableye, Landorus, Gyarados, and Rotom-W. And because of its high speed tier and solid bulk, it can definitely be quite the hassle.
 
Would it be worth it at all to utilize Synthesis, considering Serperior's bulk?

Haha I was wondering if it got recovery, but I kept saying "well it doesn't learn recover and definitely can't roost", whoops! :D I need to revise movepools! Could replace Giga Drain on a LO set, since Giga Drain will also take damage using Life Orb.
 
The LO Attacker and "Angry Stare" are pretty much the same bar the HP and Def EVs being switched and should probably be merged.

Knock Off should be slashed into every set somewhere since Serperior will force switches into Grass resists, plus it helps Magnezone deal with Ferrothorn and Skarmory so you don't have to run HP Fire.

Dragon Tail should be in OO for racking up hazards damage. You nuke every Fairy in the game anyway bar Klefki so it's not like they're going to switch in.

Thundurus and Klefki need to be listed as counters because Prankster T-Wave ruins Serperior's ability to function against offense.

RoyalDispenser, the EVs for a Dual Screens set should probably be max Speed to ensure that the screens get up and max HP or SpA.
 
Assault Vest sounds like that it could work very well with Serperior, considering that it gets a free Nasty Plot in Leaf Storm and has recovery in the form of Giga Drain. However, the problem is that it means that it will have to give up both Substitute and Glare, and extra attacking power in the form of Life Orb.

Also, I'd like to mention that while it's not everywhere, Serperior might have a good niche against Sticky Web. Sticky Web increases Serperior's speed, allowing it to outspeed Greninja and Sceptile. The former of which can normally OHKO Serperior with Gunk Shot.
 
Sticky web isn't that great in this meta though. Defoggers are everywhere, everything is scarfed for greninja, and most of the tier is either already slow, flying, levitating, or priority anyway.

Although sticky web could work with serperior.. consituring laying it down may be risky, if it gets magic bounced by sableye it make work in your benefit, and sticky web could stop greninja and scarf keldeo while the latis have trouble switching into D-pulse and every other levitating/flying type is in fear of HP rock and leaf storm. (Bar ballooran)
 
I am not saying that Sticky Web is commonly used, I know it isn't. Just saying that Serperior can have a niche as anti-Sticky Web.

With that said, it sounds hilarious to use Sticky Web on magic bouncers just to give Serperior a speed boost.
 
Sticky Web is already a borderline-gimmick, and the boost in Speed does not prevent Serperior from getting revenge by priority.

252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 175-207 (60.1 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 188-224 (64.6 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 204-240 (70.1 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 126-148 (43.2 - 50.8%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 153-180 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 169-199 (58 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 146-173 (50.1 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Several of those can OHKO after SR and two rounds of LO recoil (some are technically counters because they can switch in on the initial Leaf Storm and cause Serperior to kill itself the next turn).

Some other notes:
  • Set the HP IV to 29 to minimize LO recoil.
  • List Mega Altaria as a counter.
  • List Heatran as a check/counter (depends on the Heatran set and Serperior's coverage; ScarfTran is a hard counter since unboosted HP Ground cannot OHKO while SpDef has a 75% chance to survive a boosted HP Ground and can OHKO back with Lava Plume).
  • Taunt in OO because stopping Chansey from healing itself is fun, plus it prevents Unaware Clefable from trying to use you as set-up bait if it got a free switch in.
 
Some other notes:
  • Set the HP IV to 29 to minimize LO recoil.
  • List Mega Altaria as a counter.
  • List Heatran as a check/counter (depends on the Heatran set and Serperior's coverage; ScarfTran is a hard counter since unboosted HP Ground cannot OHKO while SpDef has a 75% chance to survive a boosted HP Ground and can OHKO back with Lava Plume).
  • Taunt in OO because stopping Chansey from healing itself is fun, plus it prevents Unaware Clefable from trying to use you as set-up bait if it got a free switch in.

OP is edited to reflect this :) Thanks!
 
Useful stuff there, thanks Karxrida . Not being able to reliably KO Calm Heatran after a boost is a bit... disappointing. Does Taunt for mainly Chansey really deserve an OO though, when a +6 does heavy damage and a Knock Off spells doom? I guess it's handy if a Skarmory switches in or something, or if Altaria wants to DD.

Just how interchangeable are Sceptile's and Serperior's niches in terms of viability? Sceptile forms part of a lot of offensive cores, and if Serperior can mimic those, great - providing that those cores, without Sceptile, are actually worth using. I like Serperior, I do, but I'm trying to think of specific reasons you'd want to use it at all. Grass type wallbreaker? Debatable what with the 4MSS. Speedy paralyzer that isn't Thundurus (Or Klefki I guess)?? A more offensively inclined version of Klefki might be a niche as has been pointed out, since a lot of stuff will try to set up on Klefki even as it screens, especially since they can both paralyze threats. But Grass is nowhere near as good a typing as Steel/Fairy and great speed is still eh compared to priority on most of your moves. What kind of FWG cores are going to want to use Serperior over all the other fantastic options available?
 
Realistically, Serperior would be used on teams that are weak to Sableye and MSlowbro and want some kind of powerful wallbreaker that can beat them without being too passive . Given that these two just destroy a ton of offensive teams, I can definitely see a lot of people turning towards Serperior in teambuilding. Once again, it's lie manaphy, except it's frailer, more vulnearble to status, but gets going much faster therefore fitting better on offense.
 
Serperior@Leftovers
Contrary
Timid 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spd
- Leaf Storm
- Glare
- Leech Seed/Synthesis
- Knock Off/Substitute

I figure, let's make use of the opponent's expectations, if we want Serperior to do some real damage, physically and psychologically. Honestly, what separates him from Sceptile is its support movepool. If we want Serperior to be a good team player then it can use the great combination of Glare and Leech Seed. Glare is great against HO teams, so its great support for bulky wallbreakers. Leech Seed provides passive healing and between it and Leftovers will allow Serperior to stick around and more easily get to +4 and above then a Life Orb will. Which if you think about it racks up unnecessary damage if you don't really see the power benefit until later boosts. However, if someone can think of a mon or two where enough SpA investment can net a 2HKO then I'm all ears. Knock Off is Knock Off, never not useful, no need to explain. Alternatively Substitute can act as a buffer on switches. If enough of the team is sufficiently crippled from Glare and lack of items, this will allow Serperior to clean up effectively. It doesn't have much PP after all, so it makes sense to be conservative with it.

Alternatively a Timid nature with 0 Spd investment puts you right above Jolly Gyarados. If you plan to abuse Glare effectively, You could dump all that Spd into defenses (Df, SpD or mixed) to abuse your decent bulk. Full defensive investment for example turns Mega Metagross' Meteor Mash from a 2 to a 3HKO with Leftovers. This spread would make more sense on a BO team. I don't think it can beat Sceptile's role as an offensive Grass type that can revenge or clean as Sceptile's immediate power and speed are just too much higher. You're better off with a Breloom otherwise for an offensive Grass type.
 
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Wished it were released during Gen V and not now when priority is everywhere :(

Regardless... long ago, when that BW Dream World 'beta metagame' existed, I used an Offensive SubSeed Contrary Serperior (With Hidden Power Fire as coverage, though Rock can be used thanks to Talonflame and Pinsir, or nowadays Dragon Pulse if the Latis are a problem). It's not like Serperior cannot pull it off by being fast enough to outspeed the 110 speed tier. Since its coverage is awful no matter what, it does not miss much by running two support moves.

Of course, Serperior's issues are the power creep that both make its okay bulk not be enough, even for priority moves, and its 75 Special Attack making it look much weaker, even at +2.

Not really seeing it over C+.

PS: Apart from the obvious comparisons to Mega Sceptile, I think Serperior's potential roles can be compared to Thundurus-I, in that both have a fast enough, reliable paralyzing move, being one of the few mons that can be used in OU and can boost their Special Attack by +2.
 
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