Set the controls for the heart of the Sun

Blue Cheer · Jan 19, 2012

Well, just got back to the pogeymans competitive universe and first I must ask: am I too late for the weather trend? Don't want people to see me wearing that last season's scarf, y'know...

Jokes aside, sun team. In fact, my first weather team that is not centered in some kind of gimmick or joke. Basically I've chosen sun because of the lack of love for our system's star, then because I saw the opportunity of using competitively lots of 1st gen pokes in it and also because I always wanted to make a sun team.

Now, here it goes, put the Pink Floyd song in this thread's title (Hendrix' Third Stone From the Sun or Beatles' Here Comes the Sun or maybe even Cream's Sunshine of Your Love are accepted) and enjoy it while you read this:

Foxy Lady (Ninetales) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SAtk / 20 SDef / 108 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- SolarBeam
- Fire Blast
- Will-O-Wisp

Well, ain't got much to say about it, except the inclusion of Sunny Day in its set. You must be thinking I've had quite a dose of lysergic delicacies before adding Sunny Day to its moveset, however the snag of it is to catch the opposing Weather-mon unprepared in case of a 'weather war'. The EVs are so SolarBeam and Fire Blast (not Flamethrower, because I am the kind of guy who goes to Las Vegas and Wall Street with that 'all in' posture) can actually do what they are intended to, hurt. HP EVs to ensure it is not divisible by 16, Spd EVs to outspeed scarf-toed and scarf-tar, the rest packed in SDef because I like Sdefensive shit.

Starship (Starmie) @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

I remember when this prick got my Charmeleon ass whooped back in RBY's Cerulean. Thankfully it is still fucking asses without Vaseline after almost 15 years (without the need for Viagra). Spinner because with Volcarona and Ninetales in my team, Rock Stealth is lovable as a grenade. Basic Bolt-Beamer spread, recover for a longer life, and Life Orb to counter-balance, like that Marlboro vegan-hipsters smoke. With awesome coverage, it also has the function of killing stuff that could give me some problems.

Cool Bouncer (Dragonite) (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Brick Break
- Roost

Also remember this guy back when his Hyper Beam allied with the highest Atk in the poke-world stat meant death. Now he is more usable than never. His role is to be that strong physical attacker built like a tank. Well, an ice-sensitive tank. He basically is here because with my team, he may find quite some amounts of time/space to set up and kill. And kill that fucking Heatran. Named as cool bouncer, because his looks reminds me of those big and bulky bouncers that actually are quite chill, relaxed and cool with you (by that I mean, don't push you out with his knuckles, unless provoked).

The Dude (Venusaur) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Growth
- SolarBeam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder

Never thought it would come a day I'd use a Venusaur for other purposes than extracting psychoactive oils from his flower-tree thingy. However he proves to be quite a mole-ridden beast with Chlorophyll and Growth under the sun. The biggest problem with him is that Sleep Powder is proving to be far too unreliable, even though it is useful when predicting switches.

Oblividude (Wobbuffet) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Def / 228 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Mirror Coat
- Encore
- Counter
- Safeguard

I'm so glad this lad in no longer OU-banned. Well he is basically an emergency switch. If I feel I am going to be swept, just slap this lad and revenge kill. With proper prediction, he can also GREATLY annoy the adversary, and I mean it. In fact I love this guy so much, I am considering swapping Starmie for Vaporeon, just to have someone Wishing on him.

Red Queen (Volcarona) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Morning Sun

The Red Queen. Volcarona is so broken in the sun, they had to make it 4x weak to SR. No problem though, just spin that shit away and start frying stuff with the moth. Bulky because as you could see with D-Nite, I have a fondness for bulky setup sweepers and am more used and comfortable to play with them than with glass cannons. As Grace Slick sung, '...and the Red Queen is 'off with her head', it is certainly going to decapitate stuff.

I suppose I have everything covered. Basically the biggest problems I am finding in sending this online are my overall rustiness in battle and Pokemon Online's pop-up window showing my team to the foe (don't think it is really an issue, I just don't like it so I am ranting).

If you think there is something missing, or something you'd like me to expand on, let me know and I'll gladly do so. Also I hope I've made this otherwise long textwall more readable and less mind-tiring than Keynes or Foucault. Besides, I am quite open-minded, any suggestion will be accepted and thought about.

Cheers.

EDIT: Oh, I added the importable here as well, for those who liked it and feel like using/testing. Feel free to import it, no copyrights nor SOPA/PIPA after your ass if you do so (I promise).

Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Illuminate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Brick Break
- Roost

Bruteroot (Venusaur) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Growth
- SolarBeam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder

Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SAtk / 20 SDef / 108 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- SolarBeam
- Fire Blast
- Will-O-Wisp

Wobbuffet (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Def / 228 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Mirror Coat
- Encore
- Counter
- Safeguard

Volcarona (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Morning Sun

Jmaculas · Jan 20, 2012

When seeing a dragonite in a sun team it kind of irks me when it doesn't run fire punch. I know your concerns with heatran but I think fire punch is just better than birck break when you factor ferrothorn, skarm aand steel/psychic. Instead i would put HP ground and making it more offensive. Having 2 bulky setup sweepers seems redundant.

I also find your EV spread weird on your wobuffet having counter/mirror coat to revenge kill just screams for higher HP for a better damage out put.

You should keep starmie. Rapid spin i better than wish passing in this team.

Windsong · Jan 20, 2012

Hey dude, nice team you've got here.

The main issue with the team is one that a lot of Sun teams have - the team lacks a Dragon-resistance and a Rock-resist. Those two issues lead to a lot of problems for the team, for example, CB and DD Haxorus, Latios, opposing Dragonite, Terrakion, and so on are all troubling for the team. To an extent you can handle them with Wobbuffett, but it's difficult if multiple strong sweepers are paired together (for example, teams with multiple dragons can be tough for you to beat). Finally, you have a bit of trouble with Heatran, especially defensive versions.

In order to handle these problems, your best option would be to add a Steel-type onto the team to take the Dragon- attacks. You have tons of good options, but I think that one of the better ones would be adding in Forretress over Starmie. This is really cool for your team, since you can spin, have a decent switch-in to stuff like CB Dragonite, and also get Stealth Rocks, which can be really helpful in nabbing a few KOs that Volcarona and Venusaur miss out on without rocks support.

I also think that the team would benefit significantly from a few simple moveset changes. For example, if you were to use Sludge Bomb over Growth on Venusaur, then you'd be able to revenge kill Latios, Haxorus, Hydreigon, etc much more easily (provided sun is up) which significantly decreases the threat they pose to your team. I'd also suggest taking a more offensive spin on Volcarona, using Hidden Power Ground > Morning Sun to let you break through Heatran, who's problematic for the team.

Ninetales
Forretress -> Starmie
Dragonite
Venusaur (with Sludge Bomb > Growth)
Wobbuffet
Offensive Volcarona -> Defensive Volcarona

Anyhow, nice team, good luck!

Lemonade · Jan 20, 2012

Opposing offensive Volcarona variants with HP Rock can prove troubling to your team, as it has almost no trouble OHKOing your team after a Quiver Dance (Wobb can't tak Bug Buzz). One way to get around this is swap out Wobbuffet for Choice Scarf Terrakion. Terrakion provides you with excellent revenge killing support, defeating many +1 Mons. I don't think this will be a huge loss; while you lose the trapping Wobb has, from what I can see you don't emphasize the use of Encore (another testament to this is your running min Speed), and Wobb is somewhat of an inefficient choice.

Another thing you could try is swap out Sleep Powder (you mention it is unreliable) for Sludge Bomb on Venusaur to get a strong hit. However, you would have to ensure Volcarona doesn't set up for such a tactic to work. In any case, good luck!

Blue Cheer · Jan 20, 2012

V0x said:
Opposing offensive Volcarona variants with HP Rock can prove troubling to your team, as it has almost no trouble OHKOing your team after a Quiver Dance (Wobb can't tak Bug Buzz). One way to get around this is swap out Wobbuffet for Choice Scarf Terrakion. Terrakion provides you with excellent revenge killing support, defeating many +1 Mons. I don't think this will be a huge loss; while you lose the trapping Wobb has, from what I can see you don't emphasize the use of Encore (another testament to this is your running min Speed), and Wobb is somewhat of an inefficient choice.

Another thing you could try is swap out Sleep Powder (you mention it is unreliable) for Sludge Bomb on Venusaur to get a strong hit. However, you would have to ensure Volcarona doesn't set up for such a tactic to work. In any case, good luck!

Thank you a lot for the feedback, shall be trying your suggestions overnight and I shall post the results by tomorrow. Terrakion is sounding really appealing to me, I didn't quite know him well as I am still getting used to Gen 5 (2 years away due to college), and that suggestion has really caught me. And indeed, I certainly do not emphasize Encore, it is really situational and rather gimmicky this Gen as well.

Windsong said:
Hey dude, nice team you've got here.

The main issue with the team is one that a lot of Sun teams have - the team lacks a Dragon-resistance and a Rock-resist. Those two issues lead to a lot of problems for the team, for example, CB and DD Haxorus, Latios, opposing Dragonite, Terrakion, and so on are all troubling for the team. To an extent you can handle them with Wobbuffett, but it's difficult if multiple strong sweepers are paired together (for example, teams with multiple dragons can be tough for you to beat). Finally, you have a bit of trouble with Heatran, especially defensive versions.

In order to handle these problems, your best option would be to add a Steel-type onto the team to take the Dragon- attacks. You have tons of good options, but I think that one of the better ones would be adding in Forretress over Starmie. This is really cool for your team, since you can spin, have a decent switch-in to stuff like CB Dragonite, and also get Stealth Rocks, which can be really helpful in nabbing a few KOs that Volcarona and Venusaur miss out on without rocks support.

I also think that the team would benefit significantly from a few simple moveset changes. For example, if you were to use Sludge Bomb over Growth on Venusaur, then you'd be able to revenge kill Latios, Haxorus, Hydreigon, etc much more easily (provided sun is up) which significantly decreases the threat they pose to your team. I'd also suggest taking a more offensive spin on Volcarona, using Hidden Power Ground > Morning Sun to let you break through Heatran, who's problematic for the team.

Great idea on the Forretress. Spin, plus steel typing plus SR. Basically awesome, I will try both him and Ferrothorn (just to be sure) in Starmies place, see if they prove to be more useful. While I do thank you for the suggestion on Venusaur, Growth has proven to be quite useful, but I might be putting SB over Sleep Powder though (as V0x suggested), rather fed up with its lack of reliability. And the Volcarona, I'll try that and also make it more offensive oriented since without Morning Sun, there is basically no point in making it bulky, and will also clear room for adding Fire Punch to Dragonite instead of Brick Break, hopefully. Thanks a lot, specially for the exportable sets! And a summary for recapitulation.

Jmaculas said:
When seeing a dragonite in a sun team it kind of irks me when it doesn't run fire punch. I know your concerns with heatran but I think fire punch is just better than birck break when you factor ferrothorn, skarm aand steel/psychic. Instead i would put HP ground and making it more offensive. Having 2 bulky setup sweepers seems redundant.

I also find your EV spread weird on your wobuffet having counter/mirror coat to revenge kill just screams for higher HP for a better damage out put.

You should keep starmie. Rapid spin i better than wish passing in this team.

With the Volcarona suggestion above, I will be risking FP over BB on Dnite, lets see how I'll fare against Heatrans with Red Queen. The Wobby spread is to make him rather bulky, since his HP is still quite high, but I want it to be rather long-lasting. You see, most attacks even though it hasn't got a sky high HP will already do enough damage to destroy the opponent with Counter/Mirror Coar and at the same time will live him with enough HP to try revenge killing once again later.

Thanks for the feedback (and eventual compliments) guys, I shall come with results/alterations tomorrow.

Cheers!

Nova · Jan 20, 2012

Hi! As previously mentioned, this team is weak to 4Drag2Mag teams, those that use Dragon spam along with Magnezone/Magneton to trap steel types. Seeing as your team does not have any steel types, those teams have no need for Magnezone and can fire off unresisted Draco Meteors/Outrages. To try to patch this weakness up, I would recommend running specially defense Heatran. Heatran fits your team in 3 ways: it resists Dragon, its fire type moves are boosted by sun, and it lays up the Stealth Rocks that your team lacks. I would recommend replacing Volcarona with Heatran as you already have 2 other bulky set-up sweepers and you can't really replace Dragonite since he is your only physical attacker

krum · Jan 20, 2012

As Windsong already mentioned, Forretress would be a fine replacement over Starmie because you lack a dragon resist on your team.

GARCHOMPZILLA · Jan 20, 2012

dragons are put to sleep or killed by dragonite i guess, or starmie. latios might be a good idea, and maybe you should have a sand pokemon on here for t-tar and sp. def boosted pokemon. also maybe surf on starmie in case of rain.

Psycho Cut · Jan 21, 2012

Ok, in addition to the suggestions these other fine raters have made, I highly sugest you change Venusaur to a mixed set, allowing you to hit stuff like Heatran which would otherwise wall it. You'll also notice how I've changed the EVs and Nature, this allows you to speed Scarved Max Speed Terrakion and +2 Cloyster. I'd also suggest Energy Ball, because with Solarbeam, it's very easy for the opponent to switch his weather inducer in. Finally, I find that HP Ice has much better coverage, now you're packing earthquake, allowing you to hit dragons and the like.

Set:

Venusaur (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 82 Atk / 252 SAtk / 174 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Growth
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake

Set the controls for the heart of the Sun

Blue Cheer

Jmaculas

Windsong

stumbling down elysian fields

Lemonade

WOOPAGGING

Blue Cheer

Nova

snitches get stitches

krum

GARCHOMPZILLA

Psycho Cut