SM OU Shadow Boning Patlop's Mom {Peaked #2 Twice, Triple qualified for reqs, Won Suspect Tour]

[imsosorrylol]

Banner by Team Pokepals

In Celebration of King Kendrick's new album this month:​

Proof of peak

Don't have screenies of the #2 peaks but here's a #3 peak with this team

reqs proof (it's like 7 or 8 by this point but I'm too lazy to link the rest)

Colin
Sorry
Sed

Teambuilding Process

I wanted a setter that got Trick Room up vs. the majority of the tier while also not sapping momentum, which Uxie accomplishes with it's absurd bulk and Memento. Originally this was a Bronzong, but me and user Fish1899 decided that Uxie fit better thanks to access to Memento.

I added a Magearna because Magearna is a great secondary setter that applies insane offensive pressure. A big plus is being able to set vs. Hoopa, one of the few things that stops Uxie's Trick Room. Magearna is absolutely mandatory on Trick Room builds due to the insane role compression it provides.

I added Mawile next because it seemed like an awesome Pokemon to use with its insane attack and low speed. It provided Priority for the team, remaining a huge threat outside of Trick Room

I added Alolan-Marowak Next as its offensive typing complemented Mawile's really well, breaking down Mawile's few checks such as Landorus-T and Venusaur. It's honestly the best abuser of Trick Room in the tier with Thick Club and SD, and provided an important check to Strong Fire types like Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y

I added Cresselia next because I needed another check to Ground types like Garchomp, Landorus-T, and Zygarde and needed another Trick Room Setter. I really didn't want to use Porygon2 because it saps momentum and doesn't really do anything besides set Trick Room. Cress also provides Healing Wish support with Lunar Dance which is super useful.

Looking over the team, I realized I needed a Water Type because none of my abusers OHKOed Landorus-T unboosted, and I didnt have anything to stop Greninja from Clicking Water Shuriken. It provides more priority to help pick off weakened Pokemon outside of Trick Room. Checking Bisharp is also nice with all the webs running around. It was originally a Tapu Bulu but Fish1899 and I changed it after having Trouble with Heatran and sorely wanting Priority.

​

Overview

Uxie @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
-

Magic Coat
-

Stealth Rock
-

Memento
-

Trick Room

Uxie is usually the designated lead, unless they have a Hoopa - Uxie gets Trick Room up vs. literally everything in the tier.

Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Uxie: 306-360 (86.4 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Uxie: 266-314 (75.1 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Uxie: 312-368 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 266-314 (75.1 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 264-312 (74.5 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yeah so now that we've confirmed that Uxie is disgustingly fat you basically click rocks if they can't 2hko you, and then TR and memento. If they can, you just TR, then rocks, then memento (unless they lead their defogger or some shit, then you just memento. You actually just rocks vs greninja if you think they're protean because specs pulse is magearna fodder (you can just hard into it), and rocks are always nice). If they lead Smeargle you just magic coat on the spore, TR memento into Bonemerang Wak, and if they lead Tapu Lele or Tapu Fini you set up rocks, burn the mental herb if they taunt, and then coat on the second taunt. Uxie is pretty straightforward and if they lead a setup mon you get TR up and one of your three sweepers can probably OHKO it with TR up. If you can, keep Uxie alive as it can still set TR and memento late game. Magic Coat makes it so ferrothorn can't get free layers which is super nice since we don't have hazard removal. It also let's us bounce back taunt if we already burned our mental herb.

fat uxie do not click

Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
-

Fleur Cannon
-

Flash Cannon
-

Thunderbolt
-

Trick Room​

Magearna is basically the only setter on Trick Room that also takes full advantage of Trick Room itself, and Magearna does that beautifully here. Trick Room Magearna is a fantastic setter and abuser and checks important shit, helping prevent Ash-Greninja from just clicking Dark Pulse or Water Shuriken and win, soft checking Protean, etc. Magearna is often the win-con late game, simply steamrolling through teams with powerful Soul-Heart Boosted STABs. Electrium Z is used to nuke Tapu Fini, Toxapex, and Celesteela, preventing taunt from the former and preventing the last two from stopping sweeps prematurely.

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
-

Shadow Bone
-

Flare Blitz
-

Bonemerang
-

Swords Dance

Alolan Marowak is the true star of this team. Unless your Opponent has an Ash Greninja (and even then shuriken needs 4-5 hits to kill, depending on if rocks are up), you can nearly always come in on the freshly Mementoed Pokemon, and SD up and grab your two kills, eliminating two crucial members of their team. A few other things annoy Marowak like Disguise Mimikyu (but it can't switch in under Trick Room), but Marowak is nearly always the MVP unless your opponent has a very specific set of mons.​

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
-

Play Rough
-

Thunder Punch
-

Fire Fang
-

Sucker Punch

Mawile is another champ. Mawile is a godsend for Trick Room this generation, pressuring the hell out of every build while being damn impossible to OHKO thanks to a really nice typing of Steel/Fairy, letting it live anything from almost every mon that doesn't carry strong super effective STABs. Play Rough and Sucker Punch are 100% Mandatory on Mawile. Thunder Punch and Fire Fang round out the coverage, providing ways to hit Celesteela, Toxapex, Scizor, Ferrothorn, opposing Mawile, opposing Magearna, and Metagross under Trick Room.

Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
-

Trick Room
-

Ice Beam
-

Moonlight
-

Lunar Dance

First off, don't be a dumbass and sack Cress when they have a Garchomp.

For real though Cress is a fantastic Trick Room Setter late game with Trick Room, and reliably gets up Trick Room vs. almost anything due to insane defenses. Moonlight is the most expendable moveslot but is typically there so Cress can be at like 70 when it switches out after it gets Trick Room Up so you can set again late game while sacking something to get a sweeper in for a few turns. Lunar Dance is super useful because it lets you play aggressive vs. a Mementoed mon early game because you can always heal up your sweeper with Cresselia if you want to. Ice Beam snipes all the Grounds that give this team serious issues and lets Cresselia be a very solid chomp switch in that can simply get damage off on these grounds (Because Garchomp and Landorus are only issues at full health - a weakened Chomper and Lando are easily dispatched by Aqua Jets and Sucker Punches.​

Crawdaunt @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
-

Crabhammer
-

Aqua Jet
-

Knock Off
-

Swords Dance​

Stupidly strong sweeper #3 here in +Atk LO SD Crawdaunt. Bulu is a pretty physically bulky (by sweeper standards) mon that resists Craws STABs, right? Wrong.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 260-307 (89.3 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Almost everything in this tier dies at +2 to Crawdaunt. Using Crawdaunt is pretty brainless - just Trick Room up, SD if needed, get 2 kills, repeat.

Threatlist

Venusaur - Fuck Venusaur. If They get rocks up Venusaur is a pain, Marowak can only come in so many times. Luckily, you don't need Trick Room, and it's often better to bring in wak and just click blitz to waste synths and stuff. If they're Knock Off, you just lose unless you paralyze/burn with Mawile.
Spore Users - Playing around Spore Users is a pain since Amoonguss underspeeds Crawdaunt and walls Magearna. Smeargle is also kind of annoying since you really dont wanna magic coat webs since then Bisharp gets free +2 whenever it comes in (and still outspeeds everything) but bouncing spore is awesome. Anyhow the team doesn't really have good Sleep Fodder.
Mimikyu is annoying because Shadow Sneak is a pain for Marowak and because Disguise wastes one of your Trick Room turns which are all-too scarce. Break disguise ASAP, then Magearna/Mawile can beat it 1v1.
Tapu Koko is annoying when Trick Room isn't up because the team lacks an electric resists. Despite this, it's only a true issue when it's a taunt variant. Taunt Variants stop Magearna from Setting up on it, forcing one of your fat psychics to eat a Thunderbolt and waste their Mental Herb in the process. A well played Tapu Koko will realize
Opposing Marowak are annoying but can be outplayed since Uxie lives t1 and sets anyway, but it underspeeds it so you have to choose between tr and rocks.
-Anything with Protect

Shoutouts

sedertz for going 42-6 with this team and writing most of the RMT for me and also convincing me not to quit this game after unlucky run in OST
Fish1899 for all his help building
FMG for using my teams OST r3 and still losing
ayevon for also going 44-8 and being the first to show this team was actually fucking good and also helping me test and shit
Fuck patlop2307 for using Venusaur every game
BlazeLatias for losing to Scrappie 3 times
Dokkerich for giving the best SPL content on YouTube and recording a live with me when i was drunk
Amoonguss and pizzq for being literally the funniest users on this site
Team Pokepals for the sick banner
Noveliss for the dankest discord group
tigers jaw for being awesome and memeing with me
Tinberz for being cutest user
Asuka Langley Soryu for becoming my one of my closest friends and then literally disappearing into a void thanks mom
Ban Manaphy for recommending me shit anime and almost making me break my computer over dogshit endings.
Rampecker mans is winning olt this year
MegaStarUniverse for being my inspiration to start building
Zamrock for the funniest Pokemon content and giving me advice for wcop
ez for fucking my bitch (his words not mine kek)
@Everyonewholosttothisteamonladder for giving us ez reqs

Replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-266869
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-267250
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7oususpecttest-557140713
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7oususpecttest-557139625
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7oususpecttest-557289832

Importable

Uxie @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Magic Coat
- Stealth Rock
- Memento
- Trick Room

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Play Rough
- Thunder Punch
- Fire Fang
- Sucker Punch

Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Trick Room

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Bone
- Flare Blitz
- Bonemerang
- Swords Dance

Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Trick Room
- Lunar Dance

Crawdaunt @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Crabhammer
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

 

[power]

Awesome team Sorry - We've all had a blast spamming this in every arena possible, and there's really not much I can say other than that Trick Room is a super underrated playstyle and this team proves how truly good it is. A nice bonus is that it has decent to good matchups vs. Medicham teams. Honestly, I'm just amazed it took this long into the gen for a really solid Trick Room team to be built, and this is it.

 

[Jojobobo]

Hi, nice Trick Room team. It has three of the 6 mons that I had on my original at the start of the gen, so I guess I'm always going to be a fan. I think what has been crucial to your success is your inclusion of Cresselia to provide a ground immunity - though Magearna/Marowak/Mawile are all amazing under Trick Room that shared Ground weakness can be a killer.

First off, I'd suggest Electrium Z -> Farium Z on Magearna. The reason for this is most of Magearna's counters are 2HKOed by the Twinkle Tackle/T-Bolt combo (or at least 2HKOed with minimal chip damage in the case of SpDef Celesteela or things like Mega Meta), while Twinkle tackle remains a much more spammable nuke in general. When you pair this with the fact Magearna is a late game option most of the time, when things have taken chip damage, it makes a lot of sense. Plus, if they don't manually switch in their counter, then Twinkle Tackle nets a kill and you're at the +1 SpAtk to spam T-Bolt anyway.

Secondly I'd suggest Bonemerang -> Earthquake. In the few situations where you have to use Bonemerang (e.g. against Heatran with Earth Power, or Toxapex), then the miss on Bonemerang really will cost you badly and can easily lead to a loss because that momentum drop is a killer. I know Bonemerang can be used to counter-play sub users - but the main one on the tier currently is SubCoil Zygarde who won't care much for Bonemerang's damage in the first place. Though Bonemerang does less damage under Grassy Terrain, practically this rarely comes up.

Thirdly a change I've made to the Uxie set which I think I first created last gen is Magic Coat -> Skill Swap. I think Skill Swap is worth it due to the counter-play against Stall it can offer, whereas Magic Coat is only really useful against hazard stacking teams which aren't as common as Stall (it also leaves you at Smeargle's mercy, but only dorks use Smeargle). Magic Coat is also better against Taunt users, but against them you can just Trick Room first team and rocks the second. Getting Rocks in again stall means that their Dugtrio is no longer sashed, meaning one less sac you have to make. I'm not entirely settled on whether this is the best choice for Uxie yet, but in any case it's really something you should think over.

I'd finally suggest putting 1 Spe IV on your offensive TR mons. This will allow you to turn off TR against other TR teams and then outspeed their mons in mirror match-ups (Marowak vs. Marowak happens quite a lot, with 1 Spe IV you don't speed tie and under TR against regular teams it makes no practical difference). I guess double check if there's any weird speed tier you're missing out on, but there shouldn't be.

Anyway, again great team and good luck in the future!

 

[power]

First off, I'd suggest Electrium Z -> Farium Z on Magearna. The reason for this is most of Magearna's counters are 2HKOed by the Twinkle Tackle/T-Bolt combo (or at least 2HKOed with minimal chip damage in the case of SpDef Celesteela or things like Mega Meta), while Twinkle tackle remains a much more spammable nuke in general. When you pair this with the fact Magearna is a late game option most of the time, when things have taken chip damage, it makes a lot of sense.

That doesn't 2HKO Toxapex or Celesteela, and you're not getting minimal chip damage - that's not how Trick Room works. Even late game, things will be at 100%, because you're forced out after you get 2 kills. Plus, Magearna is usually a mid game sweeper and your late game sweeper is a lunar danced up mon.

Secondly I'd suggest Bonemerang -> Earthquake. In the few situations where you have to use Bonemerang (e.g. against Heatran with Earth Power, or Toxapex), then the miss on Bonemerang really will cost you badly and can easily lead to a loss because that momentum drop is a killer. I know Bonemerang can be used to counter-play sub users - but the main one on the tier currently is SubCoil Zygarde who won't care much for Bonemerang's damage in the first place. Though Bonemerang does less damage under Grassy Terrain, practically this rarely comes up.

This sounds really nice on paper, but Bonemerang is less for Heatran and more importantly for focus sash Dugtrio. Bonemerang lets you go right the through the sash, preventing it from stopping your sweep, and more importantly you can stay in vs. Dugtrio when Trick Room is not up because they always try to pursuit you and killing that means your sweepers dont have to deal with it (and you do live eq from full anyway). Dugtrio is a huge ass-pain and getting rid of that is far more useful.

Thirdly a change I've made to the Uxie set which I think I first created last gen is Magic Coat -> Skill Swap. I think Skill Swap is worth it due to the counter-play against Stall it can offer, whereas Magic Coat is only really useful against hazard stacking teams which aren't as common as Stall (it also leaves you at Smeargle's mercy, but only dorks use Smeargle). Magic Coat is also better against Taunt users, but against them you can just Trick Room first team and rocks the second. Getting Rocks in again stall means that their Dugtrio is no longer sashed, meaning one less sac you have to make. I'm not entirely settled on whether this is the best choice for Uxie yet, but in any case it's really something you should think over.

Once again, this sounds super cool in theory but why do you need counterplay against stall when you already obliterate stall. As much as my friends and I complain about this team being brainless, just don't be a dolt and lead something other than Uxie like Mawile vs. Stall (all you need to do is get rid of sableye with play rough, doesn't matter if your Mawile gets burned because you have a Swords Dance Alolan Marowak and a Swords Dance Crawdaunt). Rocks are far from necessary because Skarmory cant even counter you and dugtrio can't OHKO (and even if you switch out pursuit does a bit more than 50). Magic Coat is not for Smeargle (because you risk bouncing webs and then Bisharp is an asspain but you can try bouncing spore if they're retarded (like you're playing on ladder). Magic Coat is for Taunt Users. But you might say "Sedertz, we have Mental Herb!". Yes, but then they taunt you again the next turn and you cant get sr first and then Trick Room, limiting your sweepers #of turns. You can Stealth Rock vs. fini and lele, and then bounce the second Taunt to Trick Room and Memento safely, giving your sweepers threee turns instead of two turns.

I'd finally suggest putting 1 Spe IV on your offensive TR mons. This will allow you to turn off TR against other TR teams and then outspeed their mons in mirror match-ups (Marowak vs. Marowak happens quite a lot, with 1 Spe IV you don't speed tie and under TR against regular teams it makes no practical difference). I guess double check if there's any weird speed tier you're missing out on, but there shouldn't be.

This is considered a form of speed creep, and speed creep is conventionally left off of RMTs. You're free to make this change if you'd like, however.



Not trying to shit on you / be mean, just trying to explain that sorry and I have already thought of all this stuff and we made all of these decisions consciously.

EDIT@Below:

252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex: 126-149 (41.4 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex: 158-186 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

41+51-6.25 for lefties=86 < 100 that's not a 2HKO. Might wanna check your math. You're not getting rocks up, since you said rocks were far from necessary. Also, the standard Toxapex set is 252 HP 152 Def 104 SpD Calm right now, so this entire discussion is irrelevant because the calc is wrong.

I made the standard Uxie TR set you're using with Magic Coat, I am aware of how it plays. I also wouldn't use the Magic Guard Uxie set as a lead against Stall as you say. The point I'm getting at is all your wall-breakers are very slow, so I think your match-up vs. stall could be better.

That Uxie set has been standard since like BW Trick Room, no one can put a claim to it, and it's not hard to independently come up with, I used it on ORAS Trick Room Meme Teams independently - there's nothing creative about it.

you don't really need SR

Yes you do, SR ensures certain KOes with Mawile and SD Marowak like +1 Flare Blitz vs. Defensive Landorus for example. SR is hugely important and you do need it. And you're not even explaining what skill swap does, since you obliterate stall anyway (you have to be completely garbage to lose to stall with this team with SD wak and Crawdaunt, especially since nothing on stall can even touch marowak, even outside trick room, and you have lunar dance). Why would I cripple myself vs offense to beat a playstyle I already beat?

Personally I never had too much trouble getting rocks out in the first place, which makes the Dugtrio or sashes in general point moot. I guess however as Crawdaunt threatens mons where you'd want to go for ground coverage (Heatran, and Toxapex at the +2), it comes down to whether you want to better handle a niche situation (Dugtrio is on the other team, and you failed to get rocks out) and are okay risking a miss or you want 100% accuracy. I always favour the latter personally as misses tend to be much more crushing to TR teams where your turns are short, but I guess either approach is valid it just depends on what you like less.

You don't use bonemerang to hit heatran since +2 shadow bone is killing it anyway, and if they have a taunt user then you're not getting rocks up because you use skill swap. There's absolutely no reason to use eq when shadow bone and Flare Blitz already kills everything, bonemerang is basically only for sash duggy and the rare case when you're not at +2 vs full health Heatran. EQ vs. Bonemerang is such a small difference anyway and sacrificing the ability to hit dugtrio for a 10% chance to hit is not really worth it when you rarely have to risk the hit vs non dugtrio mons anyway, especially when you can usually just bone the heatran and get damage so that mawile and magearna can clean up since their tran is weakened. Also Bulu is one of Tran's most common partners anyway.

Stall also can defog rocks as you sd pretty easily, and you should be sding so you can kill toxapex.
EDIT2@Below so I don't clog up this rmt:

It seems like you guys were after a "give me a massive pat on the back" for my team rather than a rate of your team from someone experienced with the playstyle. While Skill Swap and EQ are a matter of taste, Twinkle Tackle is blatantly better with your current team make-up because you aren't threatened by the mons it supposedly handles and it avoids the SpAtk drop while simultaneously giving you a super STAB. There's a reason why the standard TR set runs Fairium Z and Fleur Cannon, and your "innovation" though flashy doesn't offer anything tangible on paper.

If you want to just be rude to everyone who tries to give you advice when by posting in this forum that should be expressly what you're after, go ahead but I'm done here.

Twinkle Tackle is not Blatantly better because Toxapex underspeeds Crawdaunt, and Wak has to SD to OHKO it, eating a scald in the process. Mawile can also get burned and struggles with it then. Magearna hardly needs Fairium Z when cleaning and Electrium Z is not innovation - Electrium Z is a very common Magearna set on both shift gear and Trick Room to lure Toxapex and has been used on several successful teams.

Sorry if I came off as rude - just frustrated because we've already experimented with all of these changes and they simply don't work in practice. Also the purpose of an RMT is not merely to seek advice, but to share successful teams with the Pokemon Community, and this team is insanely good and it needed to be shared. Fresh advice is always appreciated, however.

So you yourself aren't aware of how Skill Swap works and you're giving me crap? That's cute.

It swaps abilities with Mega Sableye so you can get your rocks down regardless of Magic Bounce.

I know this - you're not explaining what it does in practice, since you beat stall anyway. You're not explaining which matchup it helps with, since you win against stall so unless it helps with a different matchup there's no reason to run it.

Finally experience is irrelevant, skill is far more important. For example, I only play OU but there are people who play multiple tiers who are far better at OU than I am.

 

[Jojobobo]

That doesn't 2HKO Toxapex or Celesteela, and you're not getting minimal chip damage - that's not how Trick Room works. Even late game, things will be at 100%, because you're forced out after you get 2 kills. Plus, Magearna is usually a mid game sweeper and your late game sweeper is a lunar danced up mon.

The calcs are:

252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex: 126-149 (41.4 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Toxapex: 158-186 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

=> Guaranteed 2HKO on the standard Toxapex set after rocks and Black Sludge recovery, so yes it does get the 2HKO as I mentioned.

252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 124-147 (31.1 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 154-182 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

=> 69.9% to 82.6% after SR and two rounds of Leftovers recovery, 2HKO with chip damage, again as I mentioned.

In this case, you're literally only benefitting in a Celesteela match-up, who A-Marowak, M-Mawile with Fire Fang and I'd say Crawdaunt threaten to a pretty colossal extent already. It's also worth bearing in mind you can't currently use your Fairy STAB without facing a SpAtk drop, which Twinkle Tackle allows you to do and means Magearna does not burn out nearly as easily. Having run the set myself and having also thought about running Gigavolt Havoc, because it only offers a very marginal advantage against just a couple of mons that don't overly threaten you in the first place, Twinkle Tackle is very much superior and more spammable.

This sounds really nice on paper, but Bonemerang is less for Heatran and more importantly for focus sash Dugtrio. Bonemerang lets you go right the through the sash, preventing it from stopping your sweep, and more importantly you can stay in vs. Dugtrio when Trick Room is not up because they always try to pursuit you and killing that means your sweepers dont have to deal with it (and you do live eq from full anyway). Dugtrio is a huge ass-pain and getting rid of that is far more useful.

Personally I never had too much trouble getting rocks out in the first place, which makes the Dugtrio or sashes in general point moot. I guess however as Crawdaunt threatens mons where you'd want to go for ground coverage (Heatran, and Toxapex at the +2), it comes down to whether you want to better handle a niche situation (Dugtrio is on the other team, and you failed to get rocks out) and are okay risking a miss or you want 100% accuracy. I always favour the latter personally as misses tend to be much more crushing to TR teams where your turns are short, but I guess either approach is valid it just depends on what you like less.

Once again, this sounds super cool in theory but why do you need counterplay against stall when you already obliterate stall. As much as my friends and I complain about this team being brainless, just don't be a dolt and lead something other than Uxie like Mawile vs. Stall (all you need to do is get rid of sableye with play rough, doesn't matter if your Mawile gets burned because you have a Swords Dance Alolan Marowak and a Swords Dance Crawdaunt). Rocks are far from necessary because Skarmory cant even counter you and dugtrio can't OHKO (and even if you switch out pursuit does a bit more than 50). Magic Coat is not for Smeargle (because you risk bouncing webs and then Bisharp is an asspain but you can try bouncing spore if they're retarded (like you're playing on ladder). Magic Coat is for Taunt Users. But you might say "Sedertz, we have Mental Herb!". Yes, but then they taunt you again the next turn and you cant get sr first and then Trick Room, limiting your sweepers #of turns. You can Stealth Rock vs. fini and lele, and then bounce the second Taunt to Trick Room and Memento safely, giving your sweepers threee turns instead of two turns.

I made the standard Uxie TR set you're using with Magic Coat, I am aware of how it plays. I also wouldn't use the Magic Guard Uxie set as a lead against Stall as you say. The point I'm getting at is all your wall-breakers are very slow, so I think your match-up vs. stall could be better.

And yes you're right, if you Trick Room, then SR, then Memento, you only get two turns of TR vs. the standard 3. However, this is over-looking the situation where they have a Taunt lead, but you don't really need SR, so you just TR then Memento. While it's not ideal to forgo SR, Trick Room teams need it less because their breakers hit so damn hard - almost nothing can take a +2 Shadow Bone and live, and likewise for Crawdaunt as you say. The amount of matches where you judge there to be a strong need to TR, then SR, then Memento or switch are really fairly minimal - Taunt is already reasonably rare to begin with, mostly consigned to the Stallbreaker Lele and Fini sets.

It's about weighing the Stall counter-play against the situations where the opponent has a Taunt user and the SR will really really matter (not very common at all, as people don't tend to Sash much and your breakers hit hard as stated) or perhaps they're going to hazard stack. The latter two situations from my experience are less common then facing Stall, and so that's why I think you should consider it. When you think about it, Taunt Stallbreaker usage should really be below Stall usage, as otherwise the whole point of running a Stallbreaker in the first place is pointless as you don't get rewarded for using one as the playstyle never crops up. By extension, you should encounter Stall more often than Stallbreakers, and so more often Skill Swap will offer an advantage over Magic Guard.

I obviously get your points (as I said, I made your Uxie set so I know how it works), but I think you're downplaying the suggestion as a bit of a stupid option when it's pretty far from a bad idea. I think which of the two is better is very subjective rather than one or the other being objectively a much better choice.

This is considered a form of speed creep, and speed creep is conventionally left off of RMTs. You're free to make this change if you'd like, however.

I wasn't aware there was a set in stone convention about not mentioning speed creep IVs or EVS, is there a thread mentioning that they're not normally included in RMTs? As it gives better counter-play to opposing TR teams, I don't think it hurts to flag it up.

Not trying to shit on you / be mean, just trying to explain that sorry and I have already thought of all this stuff and we made all of these decisions consciously.

You're being pretty blunt, but not exactly rude, so I guess that's the best anyone can hope for on Smogon. I found you explaining how the Uxie set I made works to me to be an interesting choice ;-)

 

[imsosorrylol]

I could never imagine that Uxie and Cresselia would be in a same team, cause many users in the past have preffered either option. Amazing team, one of my favs ever in smogon, love using it, and brilliant creativity!

thanks man i really appreciate the compliment as it took me quite a while to put the finishing touches on this team. uxie and cress on the same team was also something i myself found to be weird but they function a little differently so their roles dont overlap too much. hope you have fun with the team!

 

[FMG]

Really cool team, I'm not a huge fan of Trick Room teams, but this one is very solid and super fun to use. This team is just so easy to use and has good match up vs most teams on the ladder as of right now. I also got reqs with this team.

Also Fairium-Z on Magearna is bad on this team, Electrium-Z is just so much better. Like killing toxapex and celesteela is so helpful. Also after +1 you can kill mega maw which the team struggles switching into. Also does overall more damage to things like metagross, volc, etc. If anything, use Fightinium-Z with Focus Blast so you can kill Heatran which can be annoying at times and you can also prevent ferro from stacking up hazards. Electrium-Z on Magearna in this team is still much better. If you say that the team struggles with Zygarde, you have clearly not used the team. I faced sub coil zygarde so many times on the ladder, and I have not once lost to it with this team.

Edit: Made some errors, just fixing them :]

 

[Leo]

Man this team's so strong, I used to see TR as a liability more than anything but this team really shows TR's potential in SM. Not much to say that hasn't been tried already besides something I think comes down to preference I used which is Red Card>Mental Herb on Uxie. Mental Herb is really useful and not having it can be annoying if your opponent knows the team and expects the Magic Coat as they Taunt but it's somewhat effective on ladder where people try to flinch you with Dark Pulse Ninja which almost lost me a game. I tried it in a bunch of games and really wasn't only useful once in a different scenario where my opp led scarfGar and I TR into rocks and memento cause he got Red Card to idr what. I'd say it's very situational and Mental Herb is probs more reliable but it never really came to play when I tested it. Also thanks for PM'ing me the team on thursday I got really close to getting reqs but ended up not having enough time lol </3
e: mixed up something lol

 

[imsosorrylol]

Man this team's so strong, I used to see TR as a liability more than anything but this team really shows TR's potential in SM. Not much to say that hasn't been tried already besides something I think comes down to preference I used which is Red Card>Mental Herb on Uxie. Mental Herb is really useful and not having it can be annoying if your opponent knows the team and expects the Magic Coat as they Taunt but it's somewhat effective on ladder where people try to flinch you with Dark Pulse Ninja which almost lost me a game. I tried it in a bunch of games and really wasn't only useful once in a different scenario where my opp led scarfGar and I TR into rocks and memento cause he got Red Card to idr what. I'd say it's very situational and Mental Herb is probs more reliable but it never really came to play when I tested it. Also thanks for PM'ing me the team on thursday I got really close to getting reqs but ended up not having enough time lol </3
e: mixed up something lol

i actually havent tried out red card so ill test it out for sure. np bout the team lots of people pmd me about it lol and im glad u enjoy it.

 

[Celticpride]

Guys I just deleted a whole bunch of posts - try to keep things calm. To the guys who posted this team, if you don't like the advice, just don't respond to it and move on.

 

[Robb576]

The comment section of this page is turning dark. Those who are in discussion about non-RMT-related stuff might try discussing in PM -> discussing in this comment section. If you do this, you could:

-Avoid getting a bad reputation on this forum
-Stop giving (new) users the impression that discussing these kinds of stuff in these threads is OK
-Eliminate the threat of discouraging others to post in this thread, afraid of getting picked on as well.

Those who were discussing know who they are, by the way.

Realises he commented here and has to give a rate since it would be impolite if he didn't rate

Ehh... Darnit.

As you can see by the small amount of messages I posted atm, you can conclude that I am a hardcore lurker and I know all I am kinda new. Nevertheless, I'll try to give each pokemon an independant rate. FYI, I haven't read through the comments patiently, so some suggestions might already have been made.

UXIE:
I fear that Bulxie. A solid reasoning and my upcoming appointment with several doctors to perform eye-surgery after seeing that picture of Uxie after all-you-can-eat gives me no reason to try to perfect it.

MAGEARNA:
I prefer Volt Switch -> Thunderbolt for it's ability to Volt Switch out of nasty situations. If you have the weird mindset to consider this, you want to drop Electrium Z for items like: Leftovers, Mental Herb (more herbs? Geez), Fairium/Steelium Z.

MAROWAK-ALOLA:
In the threatlist you stated that your team misses an electric-resist to take on Koko. You could obviously try Lightning Rod -> Rock Head combined with Fire Punch -> Flare Blitz. You will have an electric resist this way. Because Fire Punch has a drop in power, you could Will-O-Wisp -> Swords Dance and have More Defensive EV's at the cost of some Attack, to get a bulky attacker and burn-spreader. Unfortunately, I now don't have enough time to give some EV spreads, but 10 minutes in the damage calculator might provide some answers. You already have an SD sweeper in Crawdaunt, so I recommend either changing Marowak-A from SD to Bulky Will-O-Wisp or replacing Crawdaunt (not both at the same time)

MEGA MAWILE:
Not gonna lie, this is a pretty good set. My only point of criticism here is that you included Metagross as a pokemon you could hit with Fire Fang, while it already gets hit hard by Sucker Punch. Even under TR, because most metagross' I see generally run A-O A sets

CRESSELIA:
Physically Bulky Levitating Psychic Mental Herb TR Setter #2 is also pretty good. The fact that both Uxie and Cresselia are physically bulky might backfire a bit. Since you don't have calcs for Cresselia I recommend investing more in SpD. Unfortunately, I don't have any relevant calcs because 252/0/0 Cress is so freaking hard to OHKO from full. (+1 Mega Gyara only has 12.5% chance of OHKO'ing Hardy 252/0/0 Cress, if I did it correctly). There are probably some 2HKO which will turn in 3HKO when you invest in SpD, but I can't name some examples this quick. #justnoobthings

CRAWDAUNT:
This mon is ridiciously strong at +2. I'm not a fan of using him personally because it is quite frail, but I think it is the best choice for your team, providing Water STAB and Knock Off support while hitting Bulu harder than a truck.




tl;dr for my suggestions:
Do NOT use them. There is a big chance that your team will suddenly plummet towards 1200 or something like that.

I hope you realised what an immense amount of time you wasted by reading this. Have a nice day!

EDIT:
A lot of this comment was written before Celtic removed some other posts, mainly because I suddenly had a load of other stuff I needed to finish before I finished this post.

(Great, if I waited a tad longer, I would have saved myself the trouble of writing a crappy Rate)

 

[Leo]

Yo I tested Red Card a bit more and realized it can also backfire in some specific scenarios (honestly as specific as those where it works) so maybe it's not the best option, something I think you could tweak tho is the Cress EV Spread giving it enough Spdef to tank Gren's Hydros after rocks so you don't need to sack a mon lategame to it and give it free transformation cause Shuriken can mess weakened mons up

 

[Sun King]

I'm not a huge fan of Crawdaunt on this team. I'm finding more often than not that I don't even switch it in; and, the few times I do, it's so frail that it usually only can afford to click Knock Off or Crabhammer. The Aqua Jet is really nice, but not strong enough for me. Plus, LO recoil also wears this thing down so fast.

I'm going to test out Azumarill instead, cuz I think Belly Drum or even Z-Belly Drum could be pretty cool on this, and even Choice Band could work. It's a lot bulkier than Crawdaunt and only loses out on the Ghost resist, but let's be honest here: Craw can only switch into Ghost STAB like one time before it gets worn down.

EDIT: Finding Choice Band Azumarill to be much more effective. Belly Drum is cool but hard to work with. Sitrus> Z crystal for sure.

EDIT 2: Gonna start adding replays with Azu.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7oususpecttest-568879853 basically closes out game.

 

[mikekap]

Having used this team extensively, I also agree that Azumarill over Crawdunt gives a bulkier, really strong alternative, that can tank a hit if need be, and hit very hard. Also I think that Lightning rod over Rock Head on Marowak is pretty good. Although it misses the recoil free Flare Blitz, and you should be more conservative using it having a solid counter to Tapu Koko, and a great switch on Electric types, supports even more Azumarill, and especially against Koko, will ensure a switch that Marowak either a) hit really hard, b) switch to the appropriate pokemon. I think this will take some pressure off Cresselia and Magearna, which are often required to tank strong thunderbolts. Besides, there is always Cresselia's Lunar Dance ;) .I don't have a match recorded now, though, but it's very helpful. Also, even though a lot of guys in my matches said that Cresselia could use some SpD points, the full Defensive one, has managed to survive strong hits like boosted Supersonic Strikes by Salamence, and live to setup trick room (though it would be nice to tank some hydropumps, dunno about that..). I love your team and you know it!

 

[KingKdot]

Went 43-9 with this to get metagross reqs. Good matchup vs the very skillful stall and baton pass players on the ladder.

I haven't tested it but I agree that azu may be better over crawdaunt because ash Gren is annoying to the team, especially splash plate/z move sets. Having a dark type is important vs BP so I don't think I would change the team until BP is banned. Also rock head flare blitz is way too good to change to lightning rod IMO.

 

[Sun King]

Chiming back in about Azumarill:

It's wayyyy better than Craw. Yes, Craw can hit harder at +2, but it eats up so much momentum and it's so frail. CB Azu has so much immediate power that only M-Venu can really stomach anything from it. Additionally, as noted above, this team hates Ash-Ninja since it puts a lot of pressure on Magearna early on, so having two answers to it lets you come in and chunk stuff with Azu. It's made the team much smoother for me and a lot less susceptible to random crits or other hax.

 

[imsosorrylol]

Chiming back in about Azumarill:

It's wayyyy better than Craw. Yes, Craw can hit harder at +2, but it eats up so much momentum and it's so frail. CB Azu has so much immediate power that only M-Venu can really stomach anything from it. Additionally, as noted above, this team hates Ash-Ninja since it puts a lot of pressure on Magearna early on, so having two answers to it lets you come in and chunk stuff with Azu. It's made the team much smoother for me and a lot less susceptible to random crits or other hax.

the only problem i have with azu at the moment is the baton pass matchup becomes sooo much worse which makes it not worth it to be honest. however when bp gets banned ill probs update the rmt with azu over craw, thanks for the grest suggestion!

 

[Licholas]

I'm still using this squad, although I've made some changes: Fightinium, Fire Fang -> Focus Punch, Rocks -> U-turn, Moonlight -> Magic Coat, and both Mental Herbs -> pinch Berries. Uxie is also Impish, for slow U-turns under TR. Importable. And as a Pokepaste. A few notes:

1) Keep Crabhammer - neither +2 Liquidation nor +2 Knock OHKO Z-Keld.

2) Keep Bonemerang - Grassy Terrain can force 50/50s otherwise. Also, Subs, particularly Sub Keld, cause too much trouble even as is.

3) Keep Rock Head - boosted Blitz usually OHKOs Defensive Lando, and Koko is much less a threat because of the Berries.

4) Fini and Steela are annoying; however, the first is forced in and broken down by the phys. attackers, and the second taken advantage of with SD. Meanwhile, Fightinium allows earlier use of Mage against Heatran, Magnezone, and Excadrill teams (MB EQ lead forces early Memento). I won't go through the rest of the tierlist, but another relevant Fightinium target is Maw, whereas a relevant Electrium target is Blace.

5) Focus Punch accomplishes everything Fire Fang does on a switch, and Fightinium already strengthens the MU against every Fang target, although this comes at the cost of allowing Zor, Zone, and Exca to easily RKO behind Maw's KO. However, Heatran is arguably more important than the 3 combined.

6) Lastly, I know everyone will shit on the suggestion to drop Rocks, but I've found the additional 1-2 Trick Rooms to be of comparable benefit.

PS: 248 HP Daunt takes one less dmg from Life Orb recoil.

 

[HCJB]

I'm still using this squad, although I've made some changes: Fightinium, Rocks -> U-turn, Moonlight -> Magic Coat, and both Mental Herbs -> Figy Berries. Uxie is also Impish, for slow U-turns under TR. Importable. A few notes:

1) Keep Crabhammer - neither +2 Liquidation nor +2 Knock OHKO Z-Keld.

2) Keep Bonemerang - Subs, particularly Sub Keld, cause so much trouble for the team that it's too costly to drop.

3) Keep Rock Head - boosted Blitz usually OHKOs Defensive Lando, and Koko is much less a threat because of the Berries.

4) Although Fini and Steela can be annoying, the first is forced in and broken down by the 3 phys. attackers, and the second is taken heavy advantage of. Meanwhile, Fightinium allows earlier use of Mage against Heatran, Magnezone, and Excadrill teams (MB EQ is tough). I won't go through the rest of the tierlist, but another relevant Fightinium target is MMaw, and a relevant Electrium target is Blace.

5) Lastly, I know everyone will shit on the suggestion to drop Rocks, but I've found the additional 1-2 Trick Rooms to be of comparable benefit.

PS: 248 HP Daunt takes one less dmg from Life Orb.

Honestly I think the team as a whole is a bit out-dated now, it was great at the time but a big issue is that it's a little too easily pancaked by Ash-Greninja - plus Mega-Mawile can't move past Lando, which always irked me a great deal.

I think A-Marowak is a liability in the current meta, as beyond the existing problem of being rocks weak it's threatened by Blacephalon and Greninja, and can't really set up on anything but Ferrothorn comfortably. I wouldn't recommend it at all on TR these days.

I made my own TR team which I would say fares better in the currently here in the OU Bazaar that incorporates some similar ideas to your changes, but favours 4 setters (really Stak is hits so hard when it does work I think efforts should be made to work it in) and Mega Heracross which is great right now even not on TR (so much bulk, resistances and weaknesses that easily synergize extremely well with something like Magearna, etc.). I know originally watching this thread unfold that people were called "snakes" for posting their teams here as examples by imsosorrylol, but then again he turned out to be a sick freak so I don't think his opinion counts for much.

Honestly, I'm dubious about the whole HO TR archetype having extensively played my own TR team for a few weeks (and been the only person to ladder so high with TR that I saw, and even then not so impressively - skirting 1800). I think a switch to bulkier TR archetypes would work best in the current meta, I do have some ideas myself but not sure if I'll get round to trying to develop them.