I had a similar idea. To keep with the name Shared Power, the lead shares everything. Its moves, ability and item all get shared to the rest of the team. So, for example, if the lead has Scarf, the rest of the team get the Scarf boost as well. The ability gets shared similar to how it was. And moves get shared similar to PIC (this one some might argue against but I don't know what to do with moves then). I feel like this keeps some of the extremeness of the original SP but not to the extent of requiring tons of bans.
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Metagame Shared Power [Under Re-Construction!]
- Thread starter Haaku.
- Start date
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The problem is I can see that meta having a very long banlist as well, or at least from the leader slot. Smeargle can give any move it wants, has a good ability in Technician and would give a +10 Speed boost. Mew can give almost as much as Smeargle, but has much better stats. Zoroark, Bewear, Araquanid and anything with Huge Power / Pure Power, Speed Boost, Contrary, Simple and probably others I can't think of right now would give broken abilities.
While I enjoyed playing Shared Power, I just don't see a way that such a meta could be balanced.
While I enjoyed playing Shared Power, I just don't see a way that such a meta could be balanced.
I personally don't think that sharing with adjacent Pokemon will balance this Metagame as you could make it so that offensive Mons share their offensive abilities and defensive ones their defensive abilities for example. It might work, but I personally prefer something else:
How about not all 6, but only 3 abilities are shared with the whole team (the three first mons in the Team)? This way, you basically have to decide if you want play offensively with some defensive Backup Mons or vice versa. You could for example go with Skill Link + Sturdy + Technician, but then you are not safe from Priority anymore. Or go with Regenerator + Unaware + Stamina for a good defensive Core, that could be torn apart by Teams with Mold Breaker + Unaware + Toug Claws/ Adaptability etc.
I think reducing the number of abilities that are shared would benefit this Metagame greatly. I am not opposed to the initial suggestion by Haaku, but I think that we should remove the additional 10% boost because it would not be that easy to for example determine if the opponent's Monster is now faster than mine or not, which leads to a lot of guessing.
How about not all 6, but only 3 abilities are shared with the whole team (the three first mons in the Team)? This way, you basically have to decide if you want play offensively with some defensive Backup Mons or vice versa. You could for example go with Skill Link + Sturdy + Technician, but then you are not safe from Priority anymore. Or go with Regenerator + Unaware + Stamina for a good defensive Core, that could be torn apart by Teams with Mold Breaker + Unaware + Toug Claws/ Adaptability etc.
I think reducing the number of abilities that are shared would benefit this Metagame greatly. I am not opposed to the initial suggestion by Haaku, but I think that we should remove the additional 10% boost because it would not be that easy to for example determine if the opponent's Monster is now faster than mine or not, which leads to a lot of guessing.
Just to throw out ideas:
Turn abilities into field effects like reflect and tail wind. On switch in, an ability can be shared to the rest of your team for x turns.
Limiting sharing can be based on position in the team, type, tier, or stats. An example for position would be the adjacency idea, but another could just be sharing between even and odd positions/the first 3 positions share abilities and the last 3 share abilities.
Make pokemon meet a condition to be able to share abilities. For example, if a pokemon faints, its ability is shared with the rest of the team. Another Example: If a pokemon switches in, its ability is shared with the rest of the team.
That's all I can think of for now.
Just got to make sure that whatever you choose removes the uncompetitive strategies and allows whatever it is you want it to allow.
How many bans are we allowed to have anyways? I feel like speed abilities would need to be looked at, same with *2 Def abilities, Simple, Mold Breaker, etc. Prankster + Sub would still probably be annoying too.
Turn abilities into field effects like reflect and tail wind. On switch in, an ability can be shared to the rest of your team for x turns.
Limiting sharing can be based on position in the team, type, tier, or stats. An example for position would be the adjacency idea, but another could just be sharing between even and odd positions/the first 3 positions share abilities and the last 3 share abilities.
Make pokemon meet a condition to be able to share abilities. For example, if a pokemon faints, its ability is shared with the rest of the team. Another Example: If a pokemon switches in, its ability is shared with the rest of the team.
That's all I can think of for now.
Just got to make sure that whatever you choose removes the uncompetitive strategies and allows whatever it is you want it to allow.
How many bans are we allowed to have anyways? I feel like speed abilities would need to be looked at, same with *2 Def abilities, Simple, Mold Breaker, etc. Prankster + Sub would still probably be annoying too.
I do like the sound of that. I have a few comments though. These are my personal suggestions:
- The lead donates its first move in its moveset and nothing else. If my lead is a Tapu Koko with Brave Bird as its first move, Brave Bird will be a 5th move for every teammate. Every Pokemon bar the King will have 5 moveslots instead of a far more crazy 8, so it’s not as extreme as PiC in this specific regard.
- How do the items work? I’m a little iffy on the items sharing. Would a Choice Scarf mean my whole team gains a +1 Speed boost? Or rather, does every Pokemon have a Choice Scarf on top of their normal item? I don’t think I like items sharing and I think this should be replaced with stats.
- Either a +10 boost to its highest stat OR straight up donating its highest stat to the whole team. So my Koko would donate its 130 Speed to its whole team. The former wouldn’t mean much while the latter might make things tough to balance.
As far as bans go, the tiering approach that I want to take is to start off with a very minimal banlist and go from there. I don’t want to drop bans crazily and base any off of speculation or “what if” scenarios, so it’s better to start by getting rid of what’s undoubtedly and utterly broken. It’d probably go like this:
Banned Abilities:
- Fur Coat
- Huge Power
- Innards Out
- Pure Power
- Speed Boost
Banned Pokemon:
- Komala
- Shedinja
Unbanned Pokemon:
- Blaziken
Unshareable Moves:
- Geomancy
- Shell Smash
This is obviously going to become a lot bigger but just goes to show that this tier can actually be balanced without a crazy amount of bans. I know “unshareable moves” is reminiscent of the ability restrictions that got Shared Power closed, but this is actually a teambuilder ban that the validator can reject by simply not allowing these moves to be the first slot in any Pokemon’s moveset. Any thoughts?
I like 2 possibilities
-Divide the team in 3 groups of 2 and make each group share his abilities beetwen themselves: this sounds a bit less confusing that share with the pokemon below, and teambuilding will be a bit easier (but a bit less challenging maybe). Solid cores like tapu koko+peliper (double setup), doublade aegislash (hustle+no guard), simple+dd mega gyara/celebrate victini or cinccino+aimpom can be created.
-Haaku idea: I am not sure about the 10 stat pass, but i really like the rest, i started insecure because of things like simple+ celebrate victini or geomancy pass but then i realize that solid answers could arise to stop them.
-Divide the team in 3 groups of 2 and make each group share his abilities beetwen themselves: this sounds a bit less confusing that share with the pokemon below, and teambuilding will be a bit easier (but a bit less challenging maybe). Solid cores like tapu koko+peliper (double setup), doublade aegislash (hustle+no guard), simple+dd mega gyara/celebrate victini or cinccino+aimpom can be created.
-Haaku idea: I am not sure about the 10 stat pass, but i really like the rest, i started insecure because of things like simple+ celebrate victini or geomancy pass but then i realize that solid answers could arise to stop them.
Yeah, forcing teams to use murkrow sounds unhealthy, but he can donate prankster+haze to the entire team in order to almost completly shut down geomancy/shell smash/ contrary/ simple teams. The other player can still win using a priority boosted attack or by brute strenght. If you dont see a boost dependant team, then you can select other lead and use murkrow as a support pokemon if your opponent manages to set up.
Instead of banning set up moves or abilities, i thought of unbanning marshadow. He can stop a lot of sweepers at +2 speed or donate his spectral thief to the entire team toguether with technician if the opponent has a boost stacking team. Due to the lack of priority, marshadow isnt as reliable as murkrow, but he can beat a boosted victini or kyurem-w if he wins the speed war. While unbanning marshadow is risky due to how broken he was in ou, i dont think he would be a broken mon here
Scarf ditto can be used as a way to stop a sweeper that doesnt have an speed boosting ability shared to him. As a lead, ditto can be used to punish teams without impoosterproof capabilities. Imposter preparation is more difficult here than in BH, but the imposter mon will always have one less ability than the original, and some specific pokemon like maroak work with specific items. Having said that, i am not sure if imposter is a healthy ability to the metagame, and i would recomend to keep an eye on it
Aquaranid on rain teams sounds terrifying, same with swift swim, so those abilities may grow in popularity. However, mega gyara will be almost unstoppable with mold breaker and burn inmunity
With triage support and a choice band, he can became a great revenge killer,revenge killing threats like mega gyara, kyurem W and espeon outside psychic terrain. But he fails as a gyara counter since it gets walled by his base form with intimidate.
I agree with the list, but i would like to test how the meta adapts with geomancy and shell smash unbanned. The same applies for mega gyara/water bubble, imposter and simple.
The more I think about it, the more I feel like the +10 boost thing is rather insignificant. Its only purpose was to incorporate a stat element to the metagame as well, but I'm unsure how to do this without it being either too insignificant or too crazy. Disregarding that, for now:
Some creative possibilites under the current premise of King's Power:
Pangoro
The resident god of Shared Power is here to leave its mark once again! Pangoro seems like it can prove to be an amazing Pokemon in this metagame. As a King, only does it donate Mold Breaker, but it gets access to a unique move it can share in Parting Shot. Parting Shot allows all of Pangoro's teammates to have a pivot option and can possibly make Pangoro a glue option on these types of teams. It may not be as amazing as a Pawn, but Pangoro can still hold its own with Mold Breaker, especially considering it now shares in this OM. I'll let you be the judge!
Toxapex
Toxapex is a defensive monster. We all know how ugly a team full of Regenerator Pokemon can look like, and that will likely stay true here in King's Power as well. Toxapex donates Regenerator and shares Recover with every teammate, giving teammates more than enough recovery to do whatever they want. Teammates like Magearna, Celesteela, and Landorus-T now have reliable recovery, and other teammates like Clefable can pass up on their existing recovery to afford an extra moveslot. Overall, Toxapex is likely to be an influential Pokemon in this metagame and definitely one worth watching out for as both a King and Pawn.
Alakazam
Magic Guard continues to be a great ability in this metagame. While it's now a lot more nerfed since it can't be stacked with Sturdy and Multiscale on every Pokemon, it still continues to be great by negating passive damage from hazards, recoil, etc. This makes Blacephalon especially strong. It doesn't have the most illusive coverage, but it can donate Taunt, Encore, Thunder Wave, and a lot of utility options. I can see Alakazam being a very influential Pokemon in this metagame. As a Pawn, it can still serve as a great blanket check for many of the metagame's physical attackers.
These are just a few examples of what the metagame is capable of as far as creativity goes!
Some creative possibilites under the current premise of King's Power:
Pangoro
The resident god of Shared Power is here to leave its mark once again! Pangoro seems like it can prove to be an amazing Pokemon in this metagame. As a King, only does it donate Mold Breaker, but it gets access to a unique move it can share in Parting Shot. Parting Shot allows all of Pangoro's teammates to have a pivot option and can possibly make Pangoro a glue option on these types of teams. It may not be as amazing as a Pawn, but Pangoro can still hold its own with Mold Breaker, especially considering it now shares in this OM. I'll let you be the judge!
Toxapex
Toxapex is a defensive monster. We all know how ugly a team full of Regenerator Pokemon can look like, and that will likely stay true here in King's Power as well. Toxapex donates Regenerator and shares Recover with every teammate, giving teammates more than enough recovery to do whatever they want. Teammates like Magearna, Celesteela, and Landorus-T now have reliable recovery, and other teammates like Clefable can pass up on their existing recovery to afford an extra moveslot. Overall, Toxapex is likely to be an influential Pokemon in this metagame and definitely one worth watching out for as both a King and Pawn.
Alakazam
Magic Guard continues to be a great ability in this metagame. While it's now a lot more nerfed since it can't be stacked with Sturdy and Multiscale on every Pokemon, it still continues to be great by negating passive damage from hazards, recoil, etc. This makes Blacephalon especially strong. It doesn't have the most illusive coverage, but it can donate Taunt, Encore, Thunder Wave, and a lot of utility options. I can see Alakazam being a very influential Pokemon in this metagame. As a Pawn, it can still serve as a great blanket check for many of the metagame's physical attackers.
These are just a few examples of what the metagame is capable of as far as creativity goes!
Sounds cool. Here are some other kings that stand out to me:The more I think about it, the more I feel like the +10 boost thing is rather insignificant. Its only purpose was to incorporate a stat element to the metagame as well, but I'm unsure how to do this without it being either too insignificant or too crazy. Disregarding that, for now:
Some creative possibilites under the current premise of King's Power:
Pangoro
The resident god of Shared Power is here to leave its mark once again! Pangoro seems like it can prove to be an amazing Pokemon in this metagame. As a King, only does it donate Mold Breaker, but it gets access to a unique move it can share in Parting Shot. Parting Shot allows all of Pangoro's teammates to have a pivot option and can possibly make Pangoro a glue option on these types of teams. It may not be as amazing as a Pawn, but Pangoro can still hold its own with Mold Breaker, especially considering it now shares in this OM. I'll let you be the judge!
Toxapex
Toxapex is a defensive monster. We all know how ugly a team full of Regenerator Pokemon can look like, and that will likely stay true here in King's Power as well. Toxapex donates Regenerator and shares Recover with every teammate, giving teammates more than enough recovery to do whatever they want. Teammates like Magearna, Celesteela, and Landorus-T now have reliable recovery, and other teammates like Clefable can pass up on their existing recovery to afford an extra moveslot. Overall, Toxapex is likely to be an influential Pokemon in this metagame and definitely one worth watching out for as both a King and Pawn.
Alakazam
Magic Guard continues to be a great ability in this metagame. While it's now a lot more nerfed since it can't be stacked with Sturdy and Multiscale on every Pokemon, it still continues to be great by negating passive damage from hazards, recoil, etc. This makes Blacephalon especially strong. It doesn't have the most illusive coverage, but it can donate Taunt, Encore, Thunder Wave, and a lot of utility options. I can see Alakazam being a very influential Pokemon in this metagame. As a Pawn, it can still serve as a great blanket check for many of the metagame's physical attackers.
These are just a few examples of what the metagame is capable of as far as creativity goes!
Tapu Bulu: Suffice to say there are obvious offensive and defensive applications for Grassy Surge, though it's worth pointing out that Hawlucha becomes self-activating. Tapu Bulu really has a phenomenal support/setup movepool, so you have room to play around, but an appealing option is Synthesis, which opens stall archetypes up to mons that normally would require some form of external support -- things that come to mind are Mega Aggron, Heatran, (actually Bulu+MAggron+Heatran sounds like a stupidly good core), Diancie, Empoleon, dare I say Araquanid... you get the idea.
Venomoth: I mean, shit, a whole team with Tinted Lens and Quiver Dance. Just run the moth as a sleep lead and five special attackers with good bulk and plenty of raw power, and you're set. I'd love to see Unaware stall try to contend with the game's strongest special attacks without resists.
Scizor/Breloom: Of course, why mess around with boosting your Speed when you can just move into a higher priority bracket? Giving Technician and either Bullet Punch/Mach Punch to a whole team will give you options like Cloyster, Mega Heracross, Excadrill, and Klinklang as highly threatening sweepers.
Pelipper: Pack the team with Swift Swimmers and click their Water-type moves. It's pretty self-explanatory and I won't waste time on it.
Xurkitree: For when you really hate stall, but not enough to use something that will get past Unaware users. Joking aside, Tail Glow and Beast Boost are some of the best ways to exploit openings, and a team full of special attackers (with Speed > Spa, naturally) on this bullshit could be difficult to go toe-to-toe with.
Mega Pinsir: Assuming the shared ability changes when the king megas, Mega Pinsir would open the door to bona-fide birdspam, donating Close Combat to all of its physically-inclined brethren for coverage. Dragonite, Gyarados, Lando-T, Noivern, and Entei all come to mind as useful partners.
Jirachi/Togekiss: If you're anything like me, you hate everybody who plays this game, including yourself. Running a Serene Grace team is a great way to communicate your antipathy to everyone who has the misfortune of encountering you on Pokemon Showdown Dot Com.
I'll add more later if I think of anything.
I really like the sound of the meta but maybe we take something from Chimera to make teambuilding a little more interesting, and that is when the battle starts, you choose the leader. Then the leader is chosen for the battle, allowing multiple scenarios to be covered. Let's say there is opposing E-Speeders, then you can choose Tsareena or Bruxish as your lead. If there isn't any, you can get your Mega Pinsir for an Aerilate boost.
For some viable mons:
Clefable: Again, with the Magic Guard. Also allows recovery with Wish or Soft-Boiled. With pretty average stats around, you can practically pass any boost to your other mons.
Drizzle/Drought/Snow Warning/Sand Stream: Free weather setup for all your mons. If you went with the item pass, these things could become overpowered, with free setup for a lot of mons because of the rocks. But this shouldn't be too overpowered with people running the same thing.
Clear Body: Yeah, yeah, I didn't mention mons, but this ability is pretty good. You can't get any stat drops, aside from self inflicted, so ignores Intimidate and Sticky Web. This is very good for physical (setup) sweepers.Unsure if this stops Haze. You need to carry a Dark type or a Fast Taunter for Haze.
Shield Dust: Ummm, you can't get flinch haxed or burned/paralyzed through their respective moves. Yeah, I don't know. I just don't like Fake Out and Beat Up King's Rock.
For some viable mons:
Clefable: Again, with the Magic Guard. Also allows recovery with Wish or Soft-Boiled. With pretty average stats around, you can practically pass any boost to your other mons.
Drizzle/Drought/Snow Warning/Sand Stream: Free weather setup for all your mons. If you went with the item pass, these things could become overpowered, with free setup for a lot of mons because of the rocks. But this shouldn't be too overpowered with people running the same thing.
Clear Body: Yeah, yeah, I didn't mention mons, but this ability is pretty good. You can't get any stat drops, aside from self inflicted, so ignores Intimidate and Sticky Web. This is very good for physical (setup) sweepers.
Shield Dust: Ummm, you can't get flinch haxed or burned/paralyzed through their respective moves. Yeah, I don't know. I just don't like Fake Out and Beat Up King's Rock.
How do consumables work? Can you harvest 2 berries at the same time? Does Natural Gift become two types?
I vote for Each mon being able to consume the item, harvest recycles all berries, Natural Gift is based on ur current mon's item slot.
Don't know if it wud be gud, but Harvest + Lum Berry = immunity from status + no sleep turns from rest. Also, natural gift lets u use pretty much any type for a physical move. Galon = 100 BP Ice type, Iapapa = 80 BP Dark Type.
Nature Power becomes +1 prio Tri Attack. Encore is super annoying since it prevents most set up. Runs Doublade to deal with ExtremeSpeed Spam. Encore them into it. Prankster Grasswhistle is evil.
Here are a list of Kings/Leaders that i think will be strong, it's just a guess:
It feels like this meta will give follow the leader more competition.
I vote for Each mon being able to consume the item, harvest recycles all berries, Natural Gift is based on ur current mon's item slot.
Leader:
Tropius @ Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Natural Gift
- Leaf Blade
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
Followers:
Kyurem-Black @ Ganlon Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Shadow Claw
Muk-Alola @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch
- Toxic
Tropius @ Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Natural Gift
- Leaf Blade
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
Followers:
Kyurem-Black @ Ganlon Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Shadow Claw
Muk-Alola @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch
- Toxic
Whimsicott @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grass Whistle
- Encore
- Nature Power
- Moonblast
Porygon-Z @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Conversion
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Shadow Claw
- Sacred Sword
- Destiny Bond
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grass Whistle
- Encore
- Nature Power
- Moonblast
Porygon-Z @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Conversion
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Shadow Claw
- Sacred Sword
- Destiny Bond
Here are a list of Kings/Leaders that i think will be strong, it's just a guess:
S
Clefable :( (Unaware on every thing)
Dragonite (Im assuming u only get 8 extremespeeds, but still)
Comfey (+3 giga drain and draining kiss for every mon, also pangoro)
Araquanid (Every mon gets sticky web, every mon gets scald and liquidation, every mon gets leech life)
Greninja (Protean is evil)
Kecleon ^
Almost all tinted lens mons. Since you can slap a choice item on all of them. Or run quiver dance.
A
Smeargle (Technician + King's Shield + any other move)
Ditto (Eviolite + Lucky Punch Chansey, Eviolite + Light Ball Pikachu, Blissey + Choice Scarf)
Bibarel (Simple, SD)
Togekiss (Hustle + Extreme Speed)
Zoroark Who could it be? also nasty plot on everything.
Gliscor (Poison Heal, also mons can get both Toxic Orb and leftovers + protect)
Porygon (Adaptability)
B
Arcanine (Extremespeed)
Bewear
Whimsicott
Linoone (Extremespeed, but also belly drum)
Lucario
Bellosom (every mon gets quiver dance, strength sap, Charizard-Y gets double speed)
C-
Tropius
Bruxish
Tsareena
Clefable :( (Unaware on every thing)
Dragonite (Im assuming u only get 8 extremespeeds, but still)
Comfey (+3 giga drain and draining kiss for every mon, also pangoro)
Araquanid (Every mon gets sticky web, every mon gets scald and liquidation, every mon gets leech life)
Greninja (Protean is evil)
Kecleon ^
Almost all tinted lens mons. Since you can slap a choice item on all of them. Or run quiver dance.
A
Smeargle (Technician + King's Shield + any other move)
Ditto (Eviolite + Lucky Punch Chansey, Eviolite + Light Ball Pikachu, Blissey + Choice Scarf)
Bibarel (Simple, SD)
Togekiss (Hustle + Extreme Speed)
Zoroark Who could it be? also nasty plot on everything.
Gliscor (Poison Heal, also mons can get both Toxic Orb and leftovers + protect)
Porygon (Adaptability)
B
Arcanine (Extremespeed)
Bewear
Whimsicott
Linoone (Extremespeed, but also belly drum)
Lucario
Bellosom (every mon gets quiver dance, strength sap, Charizard-Y gets double speed)
C-
Tropius
Bruxish
Tsareena
It feels like this meta will give follow the leader more competition.
I currently don’t support items being shared because I feel like it makes the concept overly tough to teambuild for and ability/first move is enough. There’s also the problem with Choice items giving their entire team a boost to their respective stat but locking them into a move making it an unviable King choice, then there’s duplicate items, etc and I just don’t see it actually being beneficial I’m open minded about this though so I will hear people out, this is just my own opinion.
Do keep in mind that the King donates the first move in its set and nothing else, so Comfey can’t donate both Draining Kiss and Giga Drain to every Pokemon.
I think donating an item seems too much, imagine a team full of mons with Sheer Force, Life Orb + each mon item, for example. Maybe, if people think sharing an ability and a move is not enough (it really is, it's nothing like Godly Gift (why did people even say this) and 5 mons have effectively 2 abilties and 5 moves, which happens basically in PiC only (you can have more than 5 moves there)), then maybe we could share two moves. It may make things way more broken, tho.
Here are some teams ideas:
King: Prankster Banette-M + Destiny Bond -> you can build the team however you want, maybe focusing on ways to break defensive teams and some speed control (Koko+Lucha or Rain, for example). If you've played SP towards the end of the last month, you've probably fought against a DBond Spam team, and they were very effective mostly against offensive teams. In King's Power, though, every mon gets the full Destiny Bond + Prankster combo thanks to Banette-M, so it may be even scarier here.
King: Multiscale Dragonite + Defog -> what a better way to keep Multiscale up than having 6 deffogers?(magic guard) Specially good if combined with Regenerator mons (like Tang, Toxa, Alo, Reuniclus, etc.), this King can not only give the team an amazing defensive ability, but also gives them the tool to protect such ability. (All this works for Regenerator Tornadus + Defog too!).
King: Multiscale Dragonite + Extreme Speed -> if you've ever played LC SP (lol), you know how priority focused it is and there's a reason: there's no Dazzling, Queenly Majesty or Psychic Terrain there. While Bruxish, Tsareena and Lele may not be awful leaders, specially Lele with Psychic Spam + Nature's Madness/Moonblast, they require your entire team to be built around them, the opposite of how they performed in SP, being highly splashable there. All this considered, I think ESpeed spam can be really good. Solid options of mons like Pinsir-M, Loppuny-M, Diggersby, Ursaring, even Sylveon (lol), etc. give the team a lot of options, and Multiscale is always highly useful.
I would like to ask if we're sticking with the "first mon in teambuilder is king" or there's still discussion about "lead is king". Although the second option makes bans harder, it gives the meta an extra layer of teambuiling and team preview, where you have to analyze your opps team to choose what King you think is best for the match. A well built team wouldn't rely on a single king, because that would make it too predictible. Teams too focused at doing one thing (ie, ESpeed spam) would suffer cause now choosing a Lele as the King is much easier, given you know that in that match it will be very useful.
Finally, I would like to say that even tho I love King's Power concept, it's not Shared Power, and no other metagame, be it cores of 2 or 3 mons sharing, each mon shares with next and previous mon, etc. will be Shared Power. SP has a simple concept that most people could easily understand and get hyped about, and that's what made it so popular and fun in the first place. Even though I was initially skeptical of the metagame's state after MG's ban, it improved a lot and you could see the diversity in the ladder. I really hope someday we might be able to see its comeback just as it is (specially given how it retained its population throughout the month, something super broken metas (sp isn't, anyway) usually can't do).
Here are some teams ideas:
King: Prankster Banette-M + Destiny Bond -> you can build the team however you want, maybe focusing on ways to break defensive teams and some speed control (Koko+Lucha or Rain, for example). If you've played SP towards the end of the last month, you've probably fought against a DBond Spam team, and they were very effective mostly against offensive teams. In King's Power, though, every mon gets the full Destiny Bond + Prankster combo thanks to Banette-M, so it may be even scarier here.
King: Multiscale Dragonite + Defog -> what a better way to keep Multiscale up than having 6 deffogers?
King: Multiscale Dragonite + Extreme Speed -> if you've ever played LC SP (lol), you know how priority focused it is and there's a reason: there's no Dazzling, Queenly Majesty or Psychic Terrain there. While Bruxish, Tsareena and Lele may not be awful leaders, specially Lele with Psychic Spam + Nature's Madness/Moonblast, they require your entire team to be built around them, the opposite of how they performed in SP, being highly splashable there. All this considered, I think ESpeed spam can be really good. Solid options of mons like Pinsir-M, Loppuny-M, Diggersby, Ursaring, even Sylveon (lol), etc. give the team a lot of options, and Multiscale is always highly useful.
I would like to ask if we're sticking with the "first mon in teambuilder is king" or there's still discussion about "lead is king". Although the second option makes bans harder, it gives the meta an extra layer of teambuiling and team preview, where you have to analyze your opps team to choose what King you think is best for the match. A well built team wouldn't rely on a single king, because that would make it too predictible. Teams too focused at doing one thing (ie, ESpeed spam) would suffer cause now choosing a Lele as the King is much easier, given you know that in that match it will be very useful.
Finally, I would like to say that even tho I love King's Power concept, it's not Shared Power, and no other metagame, be it cores of 2 or 3 mons sharing, each mon shares with next and previous mon, etc. will be Shared Power. SP has a simple concept that most people could easily understand and get hyped about, and that's what made it so popular and fun in the first place. Even though I was initially skeptical of the metagame's state after MG's ban, it improved a lot and you could see the diversity in the ladder. I really hope someday we might be able to see its comeback just as it is (specially given how it retained its population throughout the month, something super broken metas (sp isn't, anyway) usually can't do).
Hi. I'm a long-term lurker on the OM threads, and was an avid player of Shared Power since it first became supported on ROM. My point is, I never post, but am doing so now because I see the future of SP as critical and want to give my two cents, for what it's worth.
I feel like the whole King idea (where the pokemon in the first slot donates just about everything to all it's teammates, but is the only donor) would be an interesting metagame, but has very little resemblance to spirit of the original Shared Power, and I'm a little disappointed that it is the main idea being discussed. As someone already mentioned, it is much more like Godly Gift, but with moves and the ability instead of stats. With only one common ability, I think things would get stale pretty fast. What made SP so interesting was all the unique combinations of different abilities working together, including things that allowed rarely used abilities to finally see the light. I had a blast running combos like Rain Dance + Mega Launcher + Technician on Water Pulse, or Rock Head + Hustle + No Guard on Head Smash, or Scrappy + Guts + Poison Heal on Facade, or even Poison Touch + Merciless + Sniper on contact moves with Toxic Spikes support. To have combinations of only two abilities (one shared, and one native) would rob the metagame of all those interesting strategies. We'd be left with just the classic overused all-stars like Adaptability and Poison Heal, with no room for even things like Dazzling to be shared.
I'd much rather see smaller combinations of shared abilities than a king-based metagame. The idea of adjacent pokemon sharing their abilities is good--maybe we could have it so each pokemon shares its ability with both its neighbors? So each pokemon would end up with three abilities (one native and two from sharing) but no two pokemon would have the same combo. This would prevent runaway spamming of a single powerful playstyle on all team members, while still allowing complex combinations to thrive.
I also really liked the idea of having "split team sharing," where the first three pokemon in the party all share abilities, as do the last three. This has the advantage of being more straightforward in terms of team building and assessing your opponent at team preview, although it doesn't allow for as many combos per team.
I feel like the whole King idea (where the pokemon in the first slot donates just about everything to all it's teammates, but is the only donor) would be an interesting metagame, but has very little resemblance to spirit of the original Shared Power, and I'm a little disappointed that it is the main idea being discussed. As someone already mentioned, it is much more like Godly Gift, but with moves and the ability instead of stats. With only one common ability, I think things would get stale pretty fast. What made SP so interesting was all the unique combinations of different abilities working together, including things that allowed rarely used abilities to finally see the light. I had a blast running combos like Rain Dance + Mega Launcher + Technician on Water Pulse, or Rock Head + Hustle + No Guard on Head Smash, or Scrappy + Guts + Poison Heal on Facade, or even Poison Touch + Merciless + Sniper on contact moves with Toxic Spikes support. To have combinations of only two abilities (one shared, and one native) would rob the metagame of all those interesting strategies. We'd be left with just the classic overused all-stars like Adaptability and Poison Heal, with no room for even things like Dazzling to be shared.
I'd much rather see smaller combinations of shared abilities than a king-based metagame. The idea of adjacent pokemon sharing their abilities is good--maybe we could have it so each pokemon shares its ability with both its neighbors? So each pokemon would end up with three abilities (one native and two from sharing) but no two pokemon would have the same combo. This would prevent runaway spamming of a single powerful playstyle on all team members, while still allowing complex combinations to thrive.
I also really liked the idea of having "split team sharing," where the first three pokemon in the party all share abilities, as do the last three. This has the advantage of being more straightforward in terms of team building and assessing your opponent at team preview, although it doesn't allow for as many combos per team.
This idea sounds the most like Shared Power but also sounds like it'd lend itself to a lot of creativity. You could still have offensive cores like No Guard + Hustle + Adaptability/Tough Claws as well as defensive cores like Marvel Scale + Poison Heal + Regenerator. Since not every pokemon gets the ability, the problems Shared Power has had in the past may not be that much of an issue (for example, Sturdy/Multiscale teams would only have 3 pokemon that can use the ability, and there are ways around it - it became such a huge problem since every pokemon had it, making HO teams suffer as the opponent would get a hit in before death). I feel like this concept would also fix the second issue TI and Chloe had pointed out (banning abilities from being shared was banning game mechanics, almost like banning Scald from burning) as abilities wouldn't be banned from being shared but rather certain combinations wouldn't be allowed (Flash Fire and Fluffy could still be used but not in the same trio, making the bans affect teambuilding, not mechanics), but I don't know how well it would get around the first issue of difficulty balancing the meta. There would still be ability combinations that would be banned and abilities that would be straight-up banned, and I'm not 100% sure that this list would be small enough or that the meta wouldn't be so unbalanced and chaotic as Shared Power was. Of course, this last point is all theory, so that would be a problem to handle when the meta would get there.
If the idea of having 3 pokemon share abilities seems a bit too chaotic, I do remember someone making a post earlier about having pairs of pokemon sharing abilities - that would be easier to balance and still offer fun combinations like No Guard + Hustle, PH + Marvel/Guts/Toxic Boost, Technician + Tough Claws, etc. I'm not entirely sure if a meta like this already exists, however, as I'm still rather new to OMs.
It has tons of resemblance to Shared Power, but only thematically. My mindset is that whatever change we do decide on is undoubtedly going to change the metagame drastically, so the actual variance of difference shouldn’t matter. In fact, the King idea itself could be named Shared Power and it’d still be an appropriate name.
Shared Power’s charm and playerbase came mostly from its simplicity in concept. Something like adjacent pairs sharing abilities or teams being split into two does keep the premise somewhat, but it raises two problems. The first problem is that it makes the metagame more complicated than it needs to be. “All abilities are active at once” is a far more accessible premise than “pairs of Pokemon on a team share abilities among themselves.” Because of that, even teambuilding for this metagame may be overcomplicated and some players might not like that. The second problem is that it does not fix Shared Power’s ability restrictions. When more than two abilities are being shared at once, broken combinations aren’t stopped at all. For example, you’d still have to ban Multiscale and likely Sturdy as well. You’d have to ban weather speed Abilities and such too. And with the ability restriction thing not flying this time, we wouldn’t be able to restrict them and get away with it. While the King’s Power concept isn’t as simple either, it’s still accessible and a lot easier to tier since combinations are now actually restricted to one or few specific Pokemon. For example, the only Pokemon that can have the combination of Multiscale and Magic Guard are Dragonite and the Magic Guard users. If they ever become a problem, which I doubt, we can now simply ban the Pokemon rather than restricting a whole ability.
One additional problem not discussed when closing Shared Power was the matchup based nature that King’s Power would fix. The game is no longer determined by team preview. While a bad lead choice can cost you the game, this adds a layer of prediction and decision-making not present in the original SP, so it can definitely be a fun and actually competitive metagame.
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
How about the 6th slot Pokémon gets 1 Move (first moveslot) from each of the first 4 Pokémon, and the ability of the fifth Pokémon?
These could either be added or in place of the 6th mon’s own. This means nothing would be too overpowered because Smeargle could only provide 1 boost. And only the 6th Pokémon would be boosted.
1) If instead of the mon’s own, then you are literally building a Pokémon from the ground up, and selecting only the item.
2) If adding to the mon’s own moves and ability then having just 2 abilities would be less overpowered, while 8 moves would be the reward of carefully compromising your teammates’ moveslots (1 out of their 4 moves may not necessarily be a move they would have normally chosen).
Any thoughts? 1 recipient, 5 boosts, limited to 1 from each teammate.
These could either be added or in place of the 6th mon’s own. This means nothing would be too overpowered because Smeargle could only provide 1 boost. And only the 6th Pokémon would be boosted.
1) If instead of the mon’s own, then you are literally building a Pokémon from the ground up, and selecting only the item.
2) If adding to the mon’s own moves and ability then having just 2 abilities would be less overpowered, while 8 moves would be the reward of carefully compromising your teammates’ moveslots (1 out of their 4 moves may not necessarily be a move they would have normally chosen).
Any thoughts? 1 recipient, 5 boosts, limited to 1 from each teammate.
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This sounds good except for one issue. This is literally Chimera 1v1. It's too close to the meta, so I don't think it can be allowed.
That would still be too overpowered. Stall could still exist, with two Regenerator mons on each side. Then we'd be back here, at the writing table. If you still want to have the spirit of the meta, make it to where it is not totally overpowered.
By the way Haaku, if this leader thing we've talked about is going to fix the meta, can we not change the name?
I like the King idea, sounds like what follow the leader actually should've been, cuz I found the "give up all the mons original moves and restrict only to leader movepool" pretty restricting and dumb tbh
But then again will it be even shared power anymore? It's very different to shared power (not mentioning it's similar to already existing metas) it might as well be considered a new meta not a revamped shared power
My opinion abt the split team sharing I'm not sure, it does keep the spirit of the meta but does it fix anything? The bans will be less of course but will still have the same teambuilding problems (complex a bit, how will ability sharing be handled, will there be combination bans like sturdy + mg..etc)
It's too bad we can't have normal shared power ;-; at least it will be playable on rom still right?
But then again will it be even shared power anymore? It's very different to shared power (not mentioning it's similar to already existing metas) it might as well be considered a new meta not a revamped shared power
My opinion abt the split team sharing I'm not sure, it does keep the spirit of the meta but does it fix anything? The bans will be less of course but will still have the same teambuilding problems (complex a bit, how will ability sharing be handled, will there be combination bans like sturdy + mg..etc)
It's too bad we can't have normal shared power ;-; at least it will be playable on rom still right?
..shared power for pet mods?
The short answer is no. The goal of the King idea is to keep Shared Power’s concept thematically, but executed way differently in a way that it’s actually possible to balance. This fixes one of the problems with SP which was the difficulty to balance the tier :)
I also agree in that it doesn’t really fix anything. You’re not stopping the amount of broken combinations that will definitely need to get banned here as well. Nothing will change in this metagame to magically make combinations like Magic Guard + Sturdy or Regenerator + Poison Heal or even Triage Pangoro any less broken. If anything, this metagame would be a complete stall fest with far less offensive abilities being able to stack on top of each other. Regenerator + PH + one of Unaware, Stamina, Multiscale is all stall really needs to flourish.
It’ll still be playable on ROM. I do plan on renaming this metagame to “Shared Power Classic” on ROM if I’m allowed to. I want to keep the new metagame name as Shared Power as well but I’m still thinking about it. Just so this isn’t a post responding to some stuff, I’ll talk more about good Pokemon for the King idea:
Blacephalon can donate Beast Boost to the entire team which is a fantastic ability. Not only this, but adding Fire coverage gives Pokemon like Tapu Koko the coverage they never had. It’s also a great standalone Pokemon and a great receiver of abilities like Adaptability and Sheer Force. Overall, Blacephalon is likely going to leave a solid mark on this metagame and it’s actual impact will be looked at.
Stakataka functions as a premier King for Trick Room teams. For one, it can donate Trick Room to many Pokemon that don’t have access to it, such as Alolan Marowak for example. Donating Beast Boost is also a boon to these types of teams, as many Pokemon like Magearna seriously appreciate it. Speaking of Magearna, it can now an additional coverage move of choice, making it a far more threatening OTR sweeper as it can now use STABs + boltbeam or even Calm Mind for example.
I’d like to end this post with a question for the community, on whether Kings should be determined by the first teamslot or the lead Pokemon. The way I see it, both sides have their ups and downs, so I’ll outline them myself:
Should the King be determined by the first teamslot?
+ Far easier to ban abilities and moves from sharing. Does not suffer from “ability restrictions” since this is a teambuilder ban.
+ Less complex to teambuild for.
+ Easier to prepare in Team Preview because you instantly know who the King is.
- Becomes very similar to Follow The Leader in concept.
- May be matchup-based in nature, but perhaps not to the extent of SP.
Should the King be determined by the lead Pokemon?
+ Less matchup based
+ Adds an additional competitive element by putting lots of thought into the lead choice.
- May be overly complicated to teambuild for.
- Difficult to tier by having to outright ban abilities rather than have to restrict them.
- Adds a sense of unpredictability concerning leads.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I recall reading sometime near the start of 7th gen that any sort of 5 move metas are barred from being submitted. The king sharing a move would violate that rule and thus may stop this suggestion from being permitted by the om council. As for the stat boost, I assume you mean the king’s highest stat, eg if your Ninjask is in the first slot then the rest of your team will get a +10 boost to speed. In the instance of equal highest stats, it should function the same as beast boost so that there’s mo true tie. It should also be based on the king’s base stats, not the effective stat. So for example a Stakataka king EVed to get a beast boost in attack will still boost its team’s base defense by 10 points. And I’ll reiterate: King should be determined in the teambuilder, like in Godly Gift (formerly known as Gift of the Gods). 1st slot in the teambuilder being the king makes it simpler and more balanced.
What Akumeoy suggested and how The Consort expanded on it would be another really good way to introduce an om with a similar concept to Shared Power in order to revive it, and I can see either or even both ideas being implied as a new om.Though I will say I’m against TI’s suggestion of the king’s item being shared as well because then that basically incorporates the Dual Wielding om into it in a way that I feel wouldn’t fit in this meta.
The turning abilities into field effects thing sounds a lot like the om Trademarked the way you described it, an om where a Pokémon’s ability can be replaced with a status move it can learn that’s automatically used when the Pokémon is sent out (with limitations such as one activation per turn so that, for example, it doesn’t result in endless pivoting with something like parting shot Alolan Persian and Silvally). So I’m against that being incorporated into this meta.
I’m probably forgetting some points, but that should cover the most pertinent ones that others haven’t already covered.
tysequaine
80% sexy, 20% disgusting
I think billybob means that switching Heatran in would place a Flash Fire field effect in the game for X amount of turns
Well, only three months ago, the OMotM was Partners in Crime which allows Pokemon to have a whole 8 moves. What you may have in mind are OMs where "every Pokemon can have 5+ moves" and these are rejected because they require the import/export tool to actually make teams for unlike SP.
I really want to move forward with this idea. Does anyone have any serious objections?
I found a way to solve the mechanic problem of shared power, where abilities where banned from sharing, however, a lot of complex bans would be needed and it wouldn't solve the balance problem of the metagame.
The idea is simple: ''pokemon holding a red orb can share their ability with the rest of the team'' (the red orb can be replaced by any useless object that the pokemon is unable to lose). So, if you want a pokemon to share an ability, you equip it with a red orb, and if an ability is too powerful to be shared, then a complex ban of 'X' ability + red orb can be made.
It is easy too see that this idea has a lot of problems behind, one of them is that a complex ban for each banned ability is too much, another one is the fact that the balance problem woudnt be solved at all. But i decided to posted it if anyone has a way to improve this idea. Another possibility in order not to rely on a specific item is to make shinies share abilities; however, i am not sure if it is possible to ban shiny pokemon.
Now returning to the king's idea, i strongly suggest that the king should be chosen in team preview. One of SP main problems of balance was the fact that a team X autoloses to a team Y. If i want to have as a king a comfey and my opponent has a Lele, them i am at a huge disadvantage, and i need to accept that i autolose against lele or prepare a team that does not depend heavily on priority, making me weak overall (because i am not gaining value of my leader). A lot of 'broken' metas have a balanced playstyle because they are not so punishing with things that can make you lose instantaneously. By having 2 or 3 possible leaders, you can react on what your opponent has, and adapt better against every situation. However, i admit that you can still can get a huge advantage if you select the correct leader on team preview, but at least that involves more skill than autowinning.
A leader by teambuilding may sound easier to build for, but when you realize that a team has huge weaknesses, then you will have to rebuild everything, or just hope your opponent doesnt have the tools to exploit those weaknesses.
The idea is simple: ''pokemon holding a red orb can share their ability with the rest of the team'' (the red orb can be replaced by any useless object that the pokemon is unable to lose). So, if you want a pokemon to share an ability, you equip it with a red orb, and if an ability is too powerful to be shared, then a complex ban of 'X' ability + red orb can be made.
It is easy too see that this idea has a lot of problems behind, one of them is that a complex ban for each banned ability is too much, another one is the fact that the balance problem woudnt be solved at all. But i decided to posted it if anyone has a way to improve this idea. Another possibility in order not to rely on a specific item is to make shinies share abilities; however, i am not sure if it is possible to ban shiny pokemon.
Now returning to the king's idea, i strongly suggest that the king should be chosen in team preview. One of SP main problems of balance was the fact that a team X autoloses to a team Y. If i want to have as a king a comfey and my opponent has a Lele, them i am at a huge disadvantage, and i need to accept that i autolose against lele or prepare a team that does not depend heavily on priority, making me weak overall (because i am not gaining value of my leader). A lot of 'broken' metas have a balanced playstyle because they are not so punishing with things that can make you lose instantaneously. By having 2 or 3 possible leaders, you can react on what your opponent has, and adapt better against every situation. However, i admit that you can still can get a huge advantage if you select the correct leader on team preview, but at least that involves more skill than autowinning.
A leader by teambuilding may sound easier to build for, but when you realize that a team has huge weaknesses, then you will have to rebuild everything, or just hope your opponent doesnt have the tools to exploit those weaknesses.
This is too close to the banned from sharing problem. The new OM should avoid having these kind of complex bans, so powerful abilities should be 100% banned. But ignoring that, holding a Red Orb does make a difference as the pokemon sharing an ability loses the item slot.
Hey hey, I’m sorry for “bragging” but now that the February usage stats are here, I want to point out just how amazingly popular Shared Power has and how it’s literally the most played OM in years. Here is Shared Power by the Numbers:
Shared Power Battles: 209,191
Comparing it to past OMotMs:
Inheritance: 52,438
Partners in Crime: 76,141
Full Potential: 25,858
Ultimate Z: 54,789
Tier Shift: 50,849
Comparing it to usage-based tiers:
UU: 246,621
RU: 99,724
NU: 45,648
PU: 54,803
Comparing it to the permanent OMs:
AAA: 7,252
BH: 35,798
MnM: 33,100
1v1: 181,287
STABmons: 10,957
The fact that we were so close to UU speaks volumes about how big our playerbase is. I’m not trying to convey any point in particular with this post, I just wanted to congratulate all of you for helping such a successful and big metagame flourish. :)
Shared Power Battles: 209,191
Comparing it to past OMotMs:
Inheritance: 52,438
Partners in Crime: 76,141
Full Potential: 25,858
Ultimate Z: 54,789
Tier Shift: 50,849
Comparing it to usage-based tiers:
UU: 246,621
RU: 99,724
NU: 45,648
PU: 54,803
Comparing it to the permanent OMs:
AAA: 7,252
BH: 35,798
MnM: 33,100
1v1: 181,287
STABmons: 10,957
The fact that we were so close to UU speaks volumes about how big our playerbase is. I’m not trying to convey any point in particular with this post, I just wanted to congratulate all of you for helping such a successful and big metagame flourish. :)
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