Metagame Shared Power

current problems i see+solutions:

stall. stall is just too annoying right now and almost impossible to break. as a stall/balance player im saying this.
solution: ban regen, and limit to 1 of fluffy, fur coat AND ice scales per team(their basically the same abilities) im sick of seeing the same pressure, ice scales, regen, fur coat, teams that just switch around all game.

hyper offense:
unbu-oh, its gone. good good.
contrary- the only real issue with contrary right now is a certain speedy dragon ghost. so honestly, id rather ban dragapult then outright suspect contrary itself.
sand spit is slightly annoying, but i think its manageable with being able to control when they get sand up.

balance:
balance just steals from both of the above lol.

all in all, its a fun meta, but its near unplayable because of the above issues.
I'd like to know why you believe Dragapult makes Contrary team obnoxious more than Contrary itself.
 
Hi, I'm new to replying in this forums, so sorry if I'm not supposed to do so. The thing is that I'm enjoying this OM and all but this dude pp stalled his a tournament with a very "cheesy" and "unfunny" team. I'm not being salty (maybe yes) but I wonder how is this possible.
replay https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1094993099
Yeah your allowed to do this in this forum, also this is shared power and sometimes people do obnoxious things like that
 

Ivy

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Hi, I'm new to replying in this forums, so sorry if I'm not supposed to do so. The thing is that I'm enjoying this OM and all but this dude pp stalled his a tournament with a very "cheesy" and "unfunny" team. I'm not being salty (maybe yes) but I wonder how is this possible.
replay https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1094993099
That PP stall team was literally shared in this very thread. It's a valid strategy. Room owners tend to not care even if people bring absurdly time-consuming teams.
 
I haphazardly threw together a meme team and for some reason it works. I peaked at #123 last night, and I love how this team plays.

Arcanine @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Wild Charge

Weezing-Galar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Strange Steam
- Pain Split
- Defog

Sylveon @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Mystical Fire
- Quick Attack
- Calm Mind

Stunfisk-Galar @ Leftovers
Ability: Mimicry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
- Foul Play

Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Flamethrower

Toxtricity @ Choice Specs
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Overdrive
- Volt Switch
- Sludge Wave



The point of the team is to get out your wallbreakers and deal absurd amounts of damage with their Pixilate STAB attacks. In Galarian Stunfisk's first ever appearance, we use it as a rocker and also for its ability, which is useful on other pokemon. Mimicry combined with Misty Surge transforms all our pokemon into fairy types, which gives them STAB on Fairy moves. Lastly, Sylveon's Pixilate turns Boomburst and Extremespeed into 168 BP and 96 BP moves, which also get STAB and Choice boosted. Noivern is here as our most reliable sweeper and wallbreaker. After setup, it tears through unprepared teams with an absurdly powerful Boomburst. Toxtricity is our wallbreaker, and he can nail Toxapex with an Overdrive (Specs Punk Rock Overdrive does plenty of damage even without STAB). Additionally, Punk Rock can boost the power of Noivern's Boomburst to even higher levels if Toxtricity is sent out first. Lastly, Arcanine is here as our reliable way of breaking through special walls. STAB Extremespeed also beats out most other priority moves, and lets us beat Crawdaunt.

Unfortunately, this team does have weaknesses. FurScales is a hard matchup, and I often rely on misplays to beat them. Also, Stunfisk is literally dead weight. It gets rocks up and sometimes hits sucker punch for miniscule damage before it gets KO'd. Fortunately, this team has many strengths, including literally invalidating Guts teams and Merciless teams, and its strong offensive pressure. I encourage you to try it out!
 
OK...there's no nice way to say this. This meta is unplayable. Offensive teams can run Hustle + No Guard + Sand Spit + Sand Rush to have a team that outruns everything, 2HKOes everything, and still has 2 slots to spare . Stall teams can run Prankster + Fluffy + Ice Scales and with Haze Toxapex are virtually unbreakable.

I have several solutions.
1: Ban Ice Scales. This is just dumb. Would you like a free X2 SpD boost? Makes your team almost unbreakable on the special side. Unlike Fur Coat it can even be combined with Assault Vest and Rock types get a free SpD boost in a Sandstorm
2: Ban Prankster. Priority recovery, priority Haze priority subrecover combined with Pressure for fast PP stalling. It’s BS.
3: Ban Hustle + No Guard. This I’m less inclined towards, but it is still extremely threatening.
4: Ban all the Rush abilities. I don’t want to do this, as I’d prefer there to be as few bans as possible, but Sand Spit + Sand Rush is ab extremely deadly combination.
 
I have several solutions.
1: Ban Ice Scales. This is just dumb. Would you like a free X2 SpD boost? Makes your team almost unbreakable on the special side. Unlike Fur Coat it can even be combined with Assault Vest and Rock types get a free SpD boost in a Sandstorm
2: Ban Prankster. Priority recovery, priority Haze priority subrecover combined with Pressure for fast PP stalling. It’s BS.
3: Ban Hustle + No Guard. This I’m less inclined towards, but it is still extremely threatening.
4: Ban all the Rush abilities. I don’t want to do this, as I’d prefer there to be as few bans as possible, but Sand Spit + Sand Rush is ab extremely deadly combination.
We've been doing complex bans for a little bit, and honestly, most of these would work under them. To start off, just shove Sand Spit under the weather complex ban we currently have. It's not that difficult. Next, Hustle + No Guard doesn't seem too powerful as of now, considering Fur Coat/Fluffy is still a thing. I think it should stay as is until we clean up the rest of the meta. Prankster? I would argue needs to go, only because of how much can be used that doesn't target the opposing 'mon. I wanting to run a stall team, but without Prankster, I was outmatched. I would also want to vote at a look into Pressure, since PP stalling isn't too fun in the middle of a tour. Ice Scales being banned seems a bit controversial, since it helps a lot, but I would suggest maybe look into another complex ban with Fluffy/Fur Coat. If it's still broken after then, as you've mentioned with AV and Rock-types getting the Sandstorm boost, I'd be completely open to a ban.
 
Every battle I do is either sand spit + rush opponent or someone who comments on my nickname choices. ban sand spit + sand rush. it could be even better than sand stream + sand rush in certain situations as it activates whenever your opponent hits you. The only ways to counter it as far as I know is to use priority or stall and do not hit them or use cloud nine (Which is probably banned)
 
Am I the only one who wants back weather wars over Regenerator vs Contrary?

I've gotten to Peak 25th in a couple of hours with Sand Spit+Sand Rush+Contrary+Queenly Majesty and I fear we're just gonna keep banning the next offense+speed control strat before we ban Regenerator & Contrary. I will probably try Quick Feet + Contrary next if Sand Spit+Sand Rush gets banned.

Screenshot_20200412-033950.jpg

Sandaconda @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Spit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Glare
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Malamar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Psycho Cut
- Knock Off
- Taunt

Excadrill @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock

Tsareena (F) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dazzling Gleam
- Taunt
- U-turn

Zeraora @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Taunt

Dragapult @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower

And yes, the team can be optimized further and it still cannot consistently beat Prankster+Haze+Regenerator, even with 3 taunt users, because no matter what Regenerator will ensure no damage I do with the team is permanent and Haze+Prankster will always stop boosting.

tl;dr I'd rather have Regenerator+Contrary banned and weather brought back over banning every form of offense+speed control, keeping stall dominant.

(No I don't think Unburden should be brought back, that broken ability can stay banned).
 
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This meta has a couple, a few, issues remaining that are honestly so much less bad than people make them out to be.

Contrary Dragapult:
This thing is broken. Period. It nukes through any form of stall, OHKO's Toxapex w/ ice scales and 2hko's ferrothorn w/ ice scales (which ignores it can just click flamethrower bc mah +2), has an insane speed that makes even some scarfers not outspeed (and it runs scarf itself, usually, cause why not, contrary DMeteor doesn't need anything else). If people want to not ban contrary, cool, fine by me, but ban this then.

Toxapex:
Toxapex might be a broken element of the meta due to its innate bulk added to furscales being a thing, and that it donates regenerator to your entire team. However, people seem to be ignoring the fact that infestation, mean look, whirlpool perish song, are all viable ways to get rid of stally Pokemon. If you're not willing to bring something like that in a meta where stall is very strong, then who's to blame for you losing? Yeah. You. On a team with taunt (plenty of users) it's the freest kill of your life. Adapt.

"Weather being banned":
One of the arguably worst arguments is banning regenerator and unbanning weather's speed control.
You're allowed to not like stall. Really. But some people do happen to like it, and might dislike HO. There is no reason to favor one play style over the other, and the things that were banned are banned because it was apparent they broke the meta when they were around without proper counter play possibilities, much like Dragapult with contrary on its own.
Regenerator is not that. It has counter play. Most people just seem incapable or unwilling to even try and use it.

Skill Link Stench Serene Grace:
This is degenerate. Nothing else. 32% chance to move is unhealthy and uncomp, period.
 
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ironwater

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This meta has a couple, a few, issues remaining that are honestly so much less bad than people make them out to be.

Contrary Dragapult:
This thing is broken. Period. It nukes through any form of stall, OHKO's Toxapex w/ ice scales and 2hko's ferrothorn w/ ice scales (which ignores it can just click flamethrower bc mah +2), has an insane speed that makes even some scarfers not outspeed (and it runs scarf itself, usually, cause why not, contrary DMeteor doesn't need anything else). If people want to not ban contrary, cool, fine by me, but ban this then.

Toxapex:
Toxapex might be a broken element of the meta due to its innate bulk added to furscales being a thing, and that it donates regenerator to your entire team. However, people seem to be ignoring the fact that infestation, mean look, whirlpool perish song, are all viable ways to get rid of stally Pokemon. If you're not willing to bring something like that in a meta where stall is very strong, then who's to blame for you losing? Yeah. You. On a team with taunt (plenty of users) it's the freest kill of your life. Adapt.

"Weather being banned":
One of the arguably worst arguments is banning regenerator and unbanning weather's speed control.
You're allowed to not like stall. Really. But some people do happen to like it, and might dislike HO. There is no reason to favor one play style over the other, and the things that were banned are banned because it was apparent they broke the meta when they were around without proper counter play possibilities, much like Dragapult with contrary on its own.
Regenerator is not that. It has counter play. Most people just seem incapable or unwilling to even try and use it.
I agree that Dragapult with contrary is really hard to deal with and may be one of the most broken things in the meta (even if you can still counter it with prankster haze or just by having a fairy type). However, I don't see how banning him while keeping contrary will solve this issue as you will just have to run (put a dragon type mon here) with DM. For example you can run Noivern with 123 speed and 97 spa so even if it's a bit slower than dragapult it is still very hard to outspeed him when scarfed and hits almost as hard. On top of that he also has infiltrator to bypass sub prankster shenanigans.
 
I agree that Dragapult with contrary is really hard to deal with and may be one of the most broken things in the meta (even if you can still counter it with prankster haze or just by having a fairy type). However, I don't see how banning him while keeping contrary will solve this issue as you will just have to run (put a dragon type mon here) with DM. For example you can run Noivern with 123 speed and 97 spa so even if it's a bit slower than dragapult it is still very hard to outspeed him when scarfed and hits almost as hard. On top of that he also has infiltrator to bypass sub prankster shenanigans.
Trust me I'm not saying Dragapult is the issue for the fun of it; I'd rather see contrary banned as a whole.
But The Immortal has stated he'd rather not ban contrary outright, so I listed the Pokemon that I consider the biggest issue out of the abusers.
Noivern is fast too, yes, but w/ a scarf it's possible to outspeed it, and bulky mons like goodra and toxapex can at least somewhat survive +2 DM so that prankhaze isn't utterly mandatory.
 
Toxapex is now banned. Toxapex is the main issue with stall teams as CoatScales gives it ridiculous bulk. Combine this with further supporting abilities, makes it practically unkillable.

I opted for this as opposed to banning Fur Coat/Ice Scales because CoatScales is necessary to keep the metagame in balance. Banning it heavily tilts the meta towards HO.
 
Toxapex is now banned. Toxapex is the main issue with stall teams as CoatScales gives it ridiculous bulk. Combine this with further supporting abilities, makes it practically unkillable.

I opted for this as opposed to banning Fur Coat/Ice Scales because CoatScales is necessary to keep the metagame in balance. Banning it heavily tilts the meta towards HO.
Any word yet on adding the combination of sand spit + sand rush to the weather speed ban? As others have pointed out, it’s potentially more broken than straight up sand stream + sand rush because pretty much the only counter play is to use indirect means of defeating your opponent’s Pokémon, essentially like Pacifistmons. The whole point of the weather setting + rush complex bans was to prevent those kinds of speed based teams from dominating the meta but people have quickly learned to get around the ban by swapping sand stream with sand spit to the same end. There is simply no reason for the combination of sand spit and sand rush to not be banned.
 
Toxapex is now banned. Toxapex is the main issue with stall teams as CoatScales gives it ridiculous bulk. Combine this with further supporting abilities, makes it practically unkillable.

I opted for this as opposed to banning Fur Coat/Ice Scales because CoatScales is necessary to keep the metagame in balance. Banning it heavily tilts the meta towards HO.
After a long time, and two memes, we have done it, we have destroyed toxapex
 

ironwater

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Toxapex is now banned. Toxapex is the main issue with stall teams as CoatScales gives it ridiculous bulk. Combine this with further supporting abilities, makes it practically unkillable.

I opted for this as opposed to banning Fur Coat/Ice Scales because CoatScales is necessary to keep the metagame in balance. Banning it heavily tilts the meta towards HO.
Now it's time to run Eviolite Mareanie instead.
 
As I said before, banning toxapex is good, not banning dragapult too is bad. I'mma sit out on using my teams until that things gone.
I've tried a weezing galar + reuni + whimsi variant but they just die to shadow ball flamethrower dm
 
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Anybody got any strats to deal with regenerator teams? Using Ferrothorn with dual defense boosters is just as oppressive as Toxapex.
 
Anybody got any strats to deal with regenerator teams? Using Ferrothorn with dual defense boosters is just as oppressive as Toxapex.
Keeping hazards up and removing HDBs from their defoggers.
Having Stealth Rock+2 Spikes results in 29.17% damage to neutral targets, which basically offsets the recovery from Regenerator.
 
Keeping hazards up and removing HDBs from their defoggers.
Having Stealth Rock+2 Spikes results in 29.17% damage to neutral targets, which basically offsets the recovery from Regenerator.
"Good" Regenerator teams run levitate.
If they don't, they could run sticky hold.
The best method is trapping them.
 
The Immortal If you ban "wEaThEr" please ban everything about that, Why you leave sand spit ? IS ABSOLUTELY Ridiculous... "iS toO hArD tO sEtuP" that is the pathetic reason ? Excadrill can destroyed everything, get rapid spin, get heavy duty botts, also Adamant Terrakion outspeed Jolly/Timid Dragapult even under web ((315*2)*0.67=422)... Is unhealthy and make my sick.
 
Sand spit is not broken end of story.

Contrary on the other hand is and the fact it's not banned right now makes ladder unplayable. Toxapex ban removes the only viable hazer that didn't mandate prankster; it's not even fun to try and ladder with anything but contrary HO anymore.
Celebi, Mew, any dragon, Rotom-H, Torkoal (yes, torkoal), anything that gets superpower, they all just snowball with 0 drawbacks.
In a meta where running an unaware mon is impossible and where the only "reasonable" counter is running prankster + haze (aka requiring 2 mons from an extremely limited list) this is beyond toxic.
 
Yeah sand spit sandrush is kinda broken being the only speed doubling strat left. The only counter I've found for other offence to deal with it is prankster tailwind and thats only 3 turns.
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Sand spit is not broken end of story.

Contrary on the other hand is and the fact it's not banned right now makes ladder unplayable. Toxapex ban removes the only viable hazer that didn't mandate prankster; it's not even fun to try and ladder with anything but contrary HO anymore.
Celebi, Mew, any dragon, Rotom-H, Torkoal (yes, torkoal), anything that gets superpower, they all just snowball with 0 drawbacks.
In a meta where running an unaware mon is impossible and where the only "reasonable" counter is running prankster + haze (aka requiring 2 mons from an extremely limited list) this is beyond toxic.
How is Sand Spit not broken? If you don’t want Sand Spit to activate, you have to not attack the opponent ever, which isn’t possible even for stall teams.

Also, either ban Contrary or unban Unaware. The current state of the meta is unacceptable.
 

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