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Shaymin-S Vote
- Thread starter Aeolus
- Start date
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I think my internet is acting up, because the poll keeps not going through. I will try again later tonight.
I must say I'm pretty disappointed in several of you. If the Pokemon is so obviously uber, why aren't you abusing it to prove your point? Just saying "Eh I know it's uber" completely flies in the face of the whole purpose of the test (to avoid people just holding onto their biases). If it's uber, it should be easy to prove (and fairly easy to fit it into a team, considering an uber Pokemon ought to be a huge disadvantage not to use in an environment with no other uber Pokemon).
imperfectluck
Banned deucer.
I wish you wouldn't bring that up, Obi, considering the landslide "uber" vote for Wobbuffet and Wobbuffet's consistently low performance ratings in "usage." Deoxys-E on the second time voting it wasn't near the top of the usage rankings either, except for leading where it showed consistently rising dominance.
Doesn't make it any less of a valid point. Stuff like, "For the respect of my opponents I do NOT use Stealth Rock on my best teams." is ridiculous. I'd be more convinced if you just said something like "I added Stealth Rock to my teams and started winning way more." The point of this test is for the voters to KNOW the impact. If they just say "Skymin is uber, I just know it", it flies in the face of the whole idea of this test. (Just so you know where I stand, this is exactly why I support Bold Voting over the current Suspect Test system.)
edit: Alright, my bad Seven Deadly Sins. I just got confused by the crack at Infinity's (admittedly ridiculous) signature.
I was referring to Obi's point, not IPL's. I voted OU because I've used it and it isn't all that good. People that haven't used Skymin but just "know" that it's uber are full of crap and don't know what they're talking about. In a bold voting process, flimsy crap votes without a basis in knowledge like that would be thrown out, making the voting process a lot more effective at determining a non-broken metagame.
Don't misconstrue me, man. =(
Don't misconstrue me, man. =(
Yeah imperfectluck, your point didn't go over well, I truly believe that wobb was voted uber for the fact that most people find it to be a boring pokemon and made up their minds that they hated it. So with the biases set they never planned to used wobb but didn't want anyone else to use it either. Wobb hatred became popular culture.
It's the same thing in skymin's case, You hardly ever see them and I have yet to lose even one pokemon to it since it came out. Remeber back, people were puting skymin into ubers in their minds long before you could even battle with the thing. And now, skymin doesn't even come to mind when making a team, it's one of those things that gets naturally handled. People just hate it.....new wobb.
It's the same thing in skymin's case, You hardly ever see them and I have yet to lose even one pokemon to it since it came out. Remeber back, people were puting skymin into ubers in their minds long before you could even battle with the thing. And now, skymin doesn't even come to mind when making a team, it's one of those things that gets naturally handled. People just hate it.....new wobb.
The purpose of the standard ladder is to make a good team and win. If I can make a great team without the help of Skymin, then why would I bother using it, when it's future is uncertain. It's not like I can easily replace it in a team if it were to be banned.
Nobody ever agreed to test any Pokemon when getting on the ladder. It is therefore, not our responsibility to personally use any certain Pokemon when laddering. I agree that one gets a better understanding of a Pokemon when he or she actually uses it. However, due to the nature of this "test," many people qualified to vote who have never used Skymin.
I would like to suggest, to whomever is in charge of this process, that the verdict of this vote should be postponed. It is indeed too close to call, and I have a feeling that over half of the votes stink of bias (including my own, I suppose). Either people have seen unprecedented success using Skymin and want to keep it OU, or people, like myself, have never used it, but through facing it alone believe it should be Uber.
To create an unbiased voter pool, I think it is necessary to have a standard ladder requirement, in which Skymin is banned, so that people can at least decide if the Skymin-less metagame is superior to the one we currently have come accustomed to. There should also be a suspect ladder requirement, in which Skymin usage should be encouraged, so that people can get a first-hand look at the Pokemon's potential as a threat, or lack thereof. That way we leave the vote up to people who actualy are involved with the test, instead of random people laddering who happened to meet voting requirements.
Nobody ever agreed to test any Pokemon when getting on the ladder. It is therefore, not our responsibility to personally use any certain Pokemon when laddering. I agree that one gets a better understanding of a Pokemon when he or she actually uses it. However, due to the nature of this "test," many people qualified to vote who have never used Skymin.
I would like to suggest, to whomever is in charge of this process, that the verdict of this vote should be postponed. It is indeed too close to call, and I have a feeling that over half of the votes stink of bias (including my own, I suppose). Either people have seen unprecedented success using Skymin and want to keep it OU, or people, like myself, have never used it, but through facing it alone believe it should be Uber.
To create an unbiased voter pool, I think it is necessary to have a standard ladder requirement, in which Skymin is banned, so that people can at least decide if the Skymin-less metagame is superior to the one we currently have come accustomed to. There should also be a suspect ladder requirement, in which Skymin usage should be encouraged, so that people can get a first-hand look at the Pokemon's potential as a threat, or lack thereof. That way we leave the vote up to people who actualy are involved with the test, instead of random people laddering who happened to meet voting requirements.
Honestly, I just want to get the vote over and done with, whichever way it goes.
I'm going to be honest in stating that as a scholar of political science, I'm hoping for a 59-59 outcome.
Aren't there 119 votes since Aeolus let someone who didn't register on the previous topic in?
lmao, that would be pretty funny, and epic as hell :O
I could be wrong, but I think it was 117 before the extra person, 118 with.
Also I really don't think we should start a vote over just because it was close and people "might" vote the other way. That doesn't seem like a very good voting system to me, and it's not like we weren't given enough time to test Skymin out.
Heh, my signature always causes controversy, eh? That's one of the two points. One is to express my views on SR and the second was to get people to see how ridiculous my sig was was and discuss SR.
Well we will have to retest it at a later step most likely because its so close. It seems pretty unanimous in PR that some tighter regulations need to be put into place for voting requirements.
Voted OU.
Starting to wish I had used it more. --;
Starting to wish I had used it more. --;
Voted Uber after giving it some thought.
Every other suspect that we've voted on, the community has given a clear cut decision as to what they think should happen: Garchomp 39-15 uber, Deoxys 26-6 uber, and wobbuffet was a landslide for Uber as well.
I think the very fact that people are having to think so hard to decide (which is obvious because of the split community vote) whether or not this thing is broken is proof enough that it is not. If it really was broken then it would be obvious to vote it uber, and we wouldn't have this 50.9%-49.1% split.
LR.
I think the very fact that people are having to think so hard to decide (which is obvious because of the split community vote) whether or not this thing is broken is proof enough that it is not. If it really was broken then it would be obvious to vote it uber, and we wouldn't have this 50.9%-49.1% split.
LR.
You do realise the whole "it's obviously Uber/OU" statement doesn't mean much.
"If it really wasn't broken then it would be obvious to vote it OU, and we wouldn't have this 50.9%-49.1% split"
Do you really see much of a difference?
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. What I meant was something along these lines:
This begs the question, of course, as to whether a Suspect is OU until proven Uber, or Uber until proven OU, or how a dead heat like this is broken. I'm also curious as to how people are defining "Uber" in this vote. Does "Shaymin-S is Uber" mean "Shaymin-S is broken"? I doubt it. "Broken" as we normally use the word (and the word itself is terribly OU) means something like "so powerful that there is no reasonable way to deal with it". If we allowed Mewtwo in OU, for example, that would be "broken". However, "Uber" and "broken" are not necessarily synonyms. I suspect that for a number of Ubers voters (the more knowledgeable ones, certainly, like imperfectluck) Shaymin-S is Uber because it is luck-based rather an skill-based. Ubers is a ban list, and the argument is that a pokemon does not to be overpowered ("broken") to be banned, only undesirable. I put users (such as darknessmalice) who think Skymin is genuinely overpowered in a different category. I think the close vote shows that there is no community consensus on whether Skymin is fit for OU. I think it also demonstates that Skymin is not broken, however, since the vote would not be nearly so close if say, Mewtwo was a Suspect (Garchomp is probably a better example). My point is that I see three parties in this vote, with two different definitions of Uber: people who define "Uber" as "overpowered" and consider Skymin overpowered (like darknessmalice, please correct me if I'm misconstruing your position), people who define "Uber" as "undesirable in the standard metagame" and consider Skymin haxy and therefore undesirable (like IPL, again, correct me if I misunderstand) and people who define "Uber" as "overpowered" and do not find Skymin to be overpowered (like me, Legacy Raider, or Chou Toshio). Now, this is the only Suspect that I can really see having this issue (except perhaps SR, since some people argue "SR is overpowered!" while others argue "SR produces an undesirable metagame!"), yet the philosophical issue is still present. What makes a pokemon Uber? Does it need to be overpowered, or only undesirable?
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