Shedinja Discussion

[Smith]

Okay so if you've been on irc at all you'll know that the only cool thing I've come up with for this round is Shedinja. With Gorebyss running rampant (and tennisace very plausibly running Huntail / Gorebyss / Carracosta / Clamperl) and the ubiquitous Mesprit giving us all the blues, Shedinja is, to me, a very powerful niche Pokemon in today's metagame.

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Wonder Guard
252 Atk / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
31 / 31 / 0 / 31 / 31 / 31
-Swords Dance
-Shadow Sneak / X-Scissor
-Protect / Will-o-wisp / Toxic / Sunny Day
-Protect / Will-o-wisp / Toxic / Sunny Day

Shedinja really has a lot of options. Shadow Sneak is good for priority and can make Shedinja a good cleaner, but X Scissor is much more powerful and has arguably better offensive typing. Protect is a handy move to scout for random means of dispatching Shedinja that you might not immediately suspect, like Toxic from a bulky wall or a random HP Fire from a special sweeper. Will o wisp or Toxic serve as means of dispatching or weakening physical sweepers and walls, respectively, and ensure that Shedinja isn't set up fodder. Sunny day may seem gimmicky, but turns him into an invaluable weapon against Rain teams and in particular the ubiquitous shell smashers.

Team Options
1. Rapid Spinners: Obviously a requirement to deal with hazards, all of which invariably spell the end of Shedinja. Armaldo, Torkoal, and Cryogonal are all good options
2. Hazards: Not at all necessary, but fun since you have an excellent spin blocker on your hands. Cacturne can work, but Garbodor deserves a special mention for its ability to immediately remove Toxic Spikes and switch into the random toxics that will inevitably threaten Shedinja.
3. Heal Bell / Status Absorber: Some way of dealing with the annoying toxics is crucial to Shedinja success. If no member of your team enjoys toxic status, Shedinja may not work well for you against more defensive teams. Lickilicky or Audino can successfully rid your team of status, or poison types like the aforementioned Garbodor can switch in with no penalty.

 

[Style_Dota]

Shedinja is actually a pretty cool mon, but it loses to HP Rock Gorebyss (which is plausible because Jynx is a bitch). Shedinja also requires a ton of team support, and it just doesn't seem like the tier can offer that atm. In terms of spinners, the only viable ones are Crygonal, Torkoal, and Armaldo, and all of them are weak to Rock attacks. If there were better Spinners (where are you Sandslash ;-;) then I would be more inclined to use Shedinja

Edit: I think Crygonal moved up actually, but still I guess my point stands

 

[Steamroll]

Nah Crygonal is still lurking around (as Aeroblacktyl put it: F.I.B.T.R.S. Floating Ice Bullshit That Rapid Spins).

Mike hit the nail on the head, Sheddie needs so much support to the point you might as well have to run stall (which is so much harder now that the best mons at doing so are up in higher tiers). Sheddie is also going to be living in constant fear of pretty much everything that's infront of him (random Toxics, Stone Edges, and Hidden Power Fires and Rocks). It also has to be highly aware of Pinsir and Rampardos who just need to spam Earthquake to hit everything bar Flyers.

 

[Smith]

I don't think anybody in their right mind would use hp rock gorebyss tbh. When I think "Gorebyss counter" Jynx is just not what springs to mind, and really neither is Shedinja. Besides, if you run HP Rock, you open yourself up to a myriad of bulky water counters, like Quagsire. Of course you're absolutely right that Shedinja requires a lot of support to be used effectively, but I find his niche invaluable and irreplacable.

 

[Style_Dota]

I don't think anybody in their right mind would use hp rock gorebyss tbh. When I think "Gorebyss counter" Jynx is just not what springs to mind, and really neither is Shedinja. Besides, if you run HP Rock, you open yourself up to a myriad of bulky water counters, like Quagsire. Of course you're absolutely right that Shedinja requires a lot of support to be used effectively, but I find his niche invaluable and irreplacable.

As of now, one of the primary Gorebyss checks is Jynx. Jynx is immune to Surf (Dry Skin), and is not even close to being KOed by Ice Beam or HP Grass while Gorebyss dies to a LO Psychic / Psyshock after the defense drops. HP Rock is definitely a feasible option.

Of course, this is not the Gorebyss discussion thread, so I'll leave it at that, but HP Rock is definitely something to worry about when facing Gorebyss.

In terms of team support, as gimmicky as this may be, I am curious how Shedinja + Natu would fair. While they share similar weaknesses, when the opponent sees Shedinja, they will be more inclined to get Hazards out quickly, to which Natu could bounce them back. Of course, this idea is gimmicky as hell, but could fair to be interesting.

 

[Smith]

Natu does seem like a fun idea since it can literally do all 3 of the things listed in the OP. I think it shouldn't be the primary option for any of them, of course. It's still frail as fuck and pretty unreliable at setting up the hazards you want or making sure your opponent doesn't sneak SR on Metang or something weird. That said it makes an awesome status pincushion, but it seems to me that Duosion could do that a lot more effectively.

 

[canno]

I don't like Shedinja + Natu, simply because I still think a spinner is necessary with, due to the fact that Natu can't take that many hits, and after he's gone (He WILL die, especially since having to switch Natu into anything that can lay down hazards is predictable as fuck), rocks WILL be set up, and unless you have a spinner, Shedinja WILL be fucked.

 

[Smith]

Well if anything it's just a good filler onto a ~dedicated~ Shedinja team if such a thing existed, or if you're just really weak to Sawk. >:D

 

[BattleStar]

Shednina is best as a lead IMO.
Because of you dont have a rapid spinner you can barely use shednija.
Also shednija lackluster speed is a real bummer, however win a bit of play testing I done on the PO server ( smogon is down don't think I go there naturally XD ) it's pretty effective on Trick room teams.

 

[Smith]

I tend to lead with it just so that I throw status around and scout possible counters immediately. I even swept a guy with it as my lead. XD I find that if you use Shadow Sneak, the lackluster speed is almost irrelevant, but it would certainly be useful there if you wanted to use it that way.

 

[Full2Half]

people forget about LC spinners, tentacool is available and has rapid spin, toxic spikes, and the ability to absorb T-spikes from your feild of play. Baltoy is also a good option with rapid spin, SR, screens, immunity to spikes and T-spikes. Sandshrew sucks, but the aforementioned are quite viable, yet unnoticed, spinners in nu. Both have eviolite with decent defences of cource.

 

[Ice-eyes]

people forget about LC spinners, tentacool is available and has rapid spin, toxic spikes, and the ability to absorb T-spikes from your feild of play. Baltoy is also a good option with rapid spin, SR, screens, immunity to spikes and T-spikes. Sandshrew sucks, but the aforementioned are quite viable, yet unnoticed, spinners in nu. Both have eviolite with decent defences of cource.

Sadly there are about three decent pokemon in the entire tier that Tentacool can switch in on, and none of them are particularly common. Baltoy might be alright; that typing is really cool.

 

[Smith]

I actually really like the idea of Baltoy + shedinja (if indeed Baltoy is any good). Shedinja can switch into the waters that give Baltoy trouble and some of the grass types with EXTREME CAUTION OF LEECH SEED, while Baltoy can tank some of the rock attacks that would give Shedinja trouble. The common ghost and dark weaknesses are troubling but not insurmountable, as a Throh or something to that effect could patch this weakness up rather nicely.

 

[Steamroll]

The only leech seeder I've seen this round is cacturne, and that was a one time occurance lol.

 

[moogleking]

I never understood the love for Focus Sash Shedinja- Protect if you don't know what they have. If they switch, it's a safe bet they couldn't attack you. If they attack, no worries.

The best item for Sheddy is the Balloon, allowing immunity to Spikes and Toxic spikes, and it's effectively permanent.

Also, a Flash Fire user to absorb the inevitable Fire attacks and the such. Justified (Are there any in NU?) pokes for Dark types, and other things to take advantage of the obvious attacks. Bastiodon is a decent partner, actually, being 4x resistant to 2 of his weaknesses and 2x to another.

 

[melvni]

Justified (Are there any in NU?) pokes for Dark types

Absol, and to a much, much lesser extent Growlithe would fall under that category.

 

[Smith]

I never understood the love for Focus Sash Shedinja- Protect if you don't know what they have. If they switch, it's a safe bet they couldn't attack you. If they attack, no worries.

The best item for Sheddy is the Balloon, allowing immunity to Spikes and Toxic spikes, and it's effectively permanent.

To be perfectly honest I've never considered any item BUT Focus Sash but I could certainly see the utility in some either items. Focus Sash isn't necessarily for when you fuck up and accidentally eat a Fire attack, it's for when you KNOW your opponent has a Fire attack but you want to WoW him or Toxic him or hit him with a +2 Shadow Sneak before you bite the dust(at least, in my opinion). To me, Spikes and Toxic Spikes aren't really common enough to warrant changing a VERY useful item, especially since any smart Shedinja user would carry a Rapid Spin to deal with Stealth Rock. If I were to run anything else, it would be a Lum Berry since a lot of threats in this tier randomly carry Toxic and I want do be able to deal with it if I mess up.

 

[KevlarX290]

Juts pointing out that Shedinja can only get Swords Dance/Agility/Baton Pass etc. in 4th gen as it no longer inherits Ninjask's level up moves upon evolution in B/W.

 

[nyttyn]

The problem with shedinja is that it is utterly crippled for its amazing ability. Rocks eat it insantly, anything that's remotely fast can eat it, toxic eats it, leech seed eats it, spikes eats it, will-o-wisp eats it, sandstorm eats it, most walls can eat it, most sweepers can eat it...

Plus it can hardly hit for beans in the first place. Basically, he's highly situational, extremely niche, and requries ungodly levels of support. If you can pull him off thoguh you are rewarded with the win right there and then.

There's a reason I named by Shedinja "Win Condition." It's exactly like those instant win cards in magic the gathering. They requrie some pretty heavy feats of skill, but if you pull it off you win right then and there.