Simipour [QC 0/3]

The3DOstrich

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Pokedex: Simipour

Status: Ready for QC Approvals

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[Overview]
  • Simipour is one of the three elemental monkeys introduced in Gen 5.
  • Unlike its two counterparts, it can become incredibly dangerous after one set up move, since Water is a fantastic offensive type.
  • Has access to Nasty Plot, Hone Claws, and Work Up, meaning a special, physical, and mix sweeper is possible.
  • Sits on a unique base speed of 101, which allows it to outspeed base 100's.
  • Has a rather average 98 / 98 offensive spread, but the boosting moves allow him to raise them to fearful levels.
  • Resists three forms of priority.
  • However, he has his share of problems.
  • Has a rather pitiful 75 / 63 / 63 defensive spread, meaning even neutral hits will take a chunk out of his health.
  • His odd speed still is not enough to outspeed prominent offensive threats, namely Garchomp, who has one base point higher. This also means it falls prey to Landorus, Terakion, THundrus, and many other faster threats.
  • Suffers to an extent from four moveslot syndrome.
  • Despite this, Simipour is a prominent attacker, and can cause massive damage with the right team support.
[Set]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Ice Beam / Grass Knot
move 4: Focus Blast / Grass Knot
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
ability: Gluttony
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe



Set Comments
  • With access to Nasty Plot and STAB Hydro Pump, Simipour can become a deadly sweeper after one set up.
  • Hydro Pump is your main Water-type STAB move, and hits increidbly hard after a Nasty Plot. However, Surf is there for accuracy purposes.
  • Ice Beam lets Simipout hit troubling Grass and Dragon-types who resist his STAB, as well as Thundrus for super effective damage.
  • The last slot depends on what you want Simipour to hit.
  • Focus Blast allows you to pick off Ferrothorn and other Steel-types, as well as Dark-types for super effective damage.
  • However, Grass Knot gives Simipour the ability to hit Jellicent, who walls you otherwise.
  • Life Orb is an obvious item choice so Simipour may hit harder, while the evs allow Simipour to reach maximum speed while hitting as hard as it can.
Additional Comments
  • Simipour can opt for an Expert Belt to bluff a choice item before setting up, as well as to hit harder with super effective hits.
  • Scald can be used for a chance to burn, though the lack of power is very unappealing.
  • Taunt can be used to prevent a set up, however, Simipour really appreciates running three attacks.
  • Hidden Power Electric can be used to hit Gyarados.
Teammates & Counters
  • Simipour really appreciates Dual Screen support, as it can be quite hard to set up with his pitiful bulk.
  • Entry hazard support is quite nice, as it allows Simipour to KO bulkier threats tha it may not be able to do so otherwise. Ferrothorn and Heatran work very well, as they both share a nice type synergy with Simipour.
  • Simipour works great under the Rain due to STAB Hydro Pump, so Politoed makes a good partner.
  • Status can really take a toll on Simipour, so it is always nice to pack a cleric.
  • Depending on the move choice for slot four, SImipour will have trouble taking out certain walls.
  • If using Focus Blast, Jellicent and Gyarados wall Simipour, and can status or straight out attack respectively. Defensive Rotom-W also can cause problems and attack Simipour with STAB Thunderbolt.
  • If using Grass Knot, Ferrothorn is a huge problem, as he can take Simipour's Water STAB, as well as Ice Beam, and retaliate with Power Whip. However, he must beware of a +6 Ice Beam.
[Other Options]
  • Simipour can go mixed with Work Up, though the lack of power in unappealing.
  • Simipour can opt for a physical set with Hone Claws, though relatively weak physical moves and the fact ti isn't very strong after one boost hinders it.
  • Hidden Power Electric can used to hit Gyarados and opposing Waters.
  • Simipour can use taunt to prevent a set up, but its too frail to pull it off.
  • Scald is an option to burn physical attackers, though the lack in power in comparison to Hydro Pump makes it the inferior choice.
  • A choice set could work, but Starmie pulls off a better Choice Specs and Choice Scarf set, while Choice Band is even pulled off better by Swampert.
[Checks and Counters]
  • Ferrothorn can Power Whip those who don't carry Focus Blast.
  • Anything that can outspeed Simipour can wreck it with even neutral hit considering its pathetic defenses.
  • Jellicent walls those who do not carry Grass Knot or Crunch.
  • Priority, even resisted, can really dent Simipour.
  • Residual damage can easily kill off Simipour.
  • Thundrus and Whimsicott can come in on a predicted Nasty Plot ank either KO with STAB super effective Thunderbolt or stall it out respectively.
[Dream World]
  • Simipour recieves Torrent as a Dream World ability.
  • Though Gluttony is useful, since none of the pinch berries are release, he cannot make much of a use out of it.
  • Since Simipour will usually be near Torrent range once attacked, and with a Nasty Plot boost, it can fire off an incredibly powerful Hydro Pump.
 
I'm sorry, but any set except the NP set and MAYBE, MAYBE, Cheer UP is not effective at all. Hone Claws is just a waste of time imo. It is ridiculously weak with only one boost, and you are using a horribly weak STAB move as well. NP is the way to go with this poor monkey. And 98 / 98 offences are average at best, maybe even terrible in this metagame, but definitely not above average. Dual Screens are immensely important for set up as it will have a hard time setting up with 75 / 63 / 63 defenses... Also, Nasty Plot Hydro Pump is the only reason Simipour was given an OU analysis so deslash Surf and make Hydro Pump the only option. I've tested Simipour and found that it is quite horrible, even with a Nasty Plot boost, so honestly I can't understand why it has been given an OU analysis... but here it is so, I will leave you with my comments.
 
I don't have the intestinal fortitude to try Simipour, but as a reader, I'll be curious to see how the writeup explains how Simipour can succeed where the bulkier, comparably powerful, more-versatile, and not-significantly-slower Porygon-Z does not.

Garchomp isn't the only significant threat hanging out just above Simi's speed tier, by the by. Thundurus, the Three Musketeers, and Latios all hang out above that tier, as do old and fading speedsters like Infernape, Azelf, etc. So it's not quite fast enough to hang out in the fast lane. But you can't just give up and lose the speed race with Landorus, Jirachi, Haxorus, and Hydreigon, either; it's even less bulky than Porygon-Z, Azelf, and Toxicroak.

How and when is this Pokemon setting up?
 
I was starting to wonder if Specs or Scarf was good enough for this one, or rather, if this one was good enough for Specs or Scarf.

I fear that Scarf will help it outspeed, but it won't score those helpful KOs before being damaged. However, Specs just might work.
 
madgenius2013 said:
I was starting to wonder if Specs or Scarf was good enough for this one, or rather, if this one was good enough for Specs or Scarf.

I fear that Scarf will help it outspeed, but it won't score those helpful KOs before being damaged. However, Specs just might work.
Click to expand...

Starmie.

Just sayin'.
 
A SubPlot + Salac set should be tested, IMO. I'm just theorymonning here, but thanks to Simisage's decent speed and Gluttony, it should be able to set up a Sub as the opponent switches, set up NP when it attacks, and then set up a third sub on the second attack. At 50% HP, it will end up with +2 SpA and +1 Speed, which is pretty significant. For faster opponents, it could simply just Sub twice and NP on the third turn. Just a thought.
 
IcyMan28 said:
A SubPlot + Salac set should be tested, IMO. I'm just theorymonning here, but thanks to Simisage's decent speed and Gluttony, it should be able to set up a Sub as the opponent switches, set up NP when it attacks, and then set up a third sub on the second attack. At 50% HP, it will end up with +2 SpA and +1 Speed, which is pretty significant. For faster opponents, it could simply just Sub twice and NP on the third turn. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Priority, any scarfer at Chomp's speed or faster, any weather sweeper, Hail/Sand, Toxic Spikes, Deo-S, Double Chop Garchomp (or any other outspeeding multiattacker), or any Roar/Whirlwind phazer that doesn't fear an unboosted hit (or any phazer that can take a boosted hit, if any such exists) all wreck this plan.
 
A Man In Black said:
Priority, any scarfer at Chomp's speed or faster, any weather sweeper, Hail/Sand, Toxic Spikes, Deo-S, Double Chop Garchomp (or any other outspeeding multiattacker), or any Roar/Whirlwind phazer that doesn't fear an unboosted hit (or any phazer that can take a boosted hit, if any such exists) all wreck this plan.
Click to expand...

So basically the same things that wreck Volcarona, Infernape, Virizion, and more? Im sorry but that is not good enough reasoning to dismiss simply testing it.
 
IcyMan28 said:
So basically the same things that wreck Volcarona, Infernape, Virizion, and more? Im sorry but that is not good enough reasoning to dismiss simply testing it.
Click to expand...

None of those Pokemon are attempting pinch-berry sweeps, despite their superior offensive abilities, comparable or superior boosting moves, and superior bulk. SubSalac sets were a default "GP Rejected" last gen, and the metagame has only gotten even more hostile to them.

Simipour has less bulk than Castform, isn't immune to weather, and has no defense against priority or scarfed revenge killers. It's not going to survive with 50% health to sweep with a pinch berry boost. Even resisted priority cleans Simipour's clock: CB Scizor does 40.1% - 47.3% with BPunch, CB Azumarill does 29.8% - 34.9% with Aqua Jet (and isn't even close to OHKOed by anything +2 Simipour can do).

Some interesting trivia from playing with the calculator: Simipour needs LO or residual damage to get past bulky!Scizor with Leftovers. +2 Hydro Pump does 88.4% - 104.1% damage, otherwise, while a Bug Bite plus a Bullet Punch will often KO from full.

A Pokemon with 75/63/63 defenses and half health and no particular protection from revenge killers is going to die.
 
IcyMan28 said:
A SubPlot + Salac set should be tested, IMO. I'm just theorymonning here, but thanks to Simisage's decent speed and Gluttony, it should be able to set up a Sub as the opponent switches, set up NP when it attacks, and then set up a third sub on the second attack. At 50% HP, it will end up with +2 SpA and +1 Speed, which is pretty significant. For faster opponents, it could simply just Sub twice and NP on the third turn. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

I doubt this set is going to work at all, with things such as priority moves, Sandstorm being so common, and all of the other points A Man In Black has covered. Not to mention pinch berries aren't released yet IIRC (you can correct me on this though, as I could be mistaken).

As for my opinion on Simipour in general, while it may have access to a nice move in Nasty Plot, I doubt it can find many opportunities to set up, due to its terrible defenses. Even resisted moves are going to hurt. Its speed is okay I guess, but a majority of the metagame still outspeed this thing, as well as common scarfers making revenge killing Simipour an easy task. Its offenses aren't really that stellar, even after a Nasty Plot boost if you can find an opportunity to set up. All in all, Simipour is a rather average at best pokemon, but I'm probably going to need more input on this before I start bashing this thing too badly.
 
All right, Hone Claws is removed, as Simipour doesn't have much of an effective physical movepool to work with. Work Up can still work with the right support, so I think it still could work. The evs have also been changed to tie with Landorus. Anyways, this is ready for QC checks I suppose.
 
In response to Work Up even being an acceptable set...

+1 Life Orb Naive Crunch vs. Utility Counter Jellicent = 56.08% - 66%

+2 Life Orb Grass Knot vs. Utility Counter Jellicent = 111.17% - 130.52%

Even +2 Hidden Power Dark does more than +1 Crunch to Jellicent. And, to my knowledge, that's the main target of Crunch, right?

So... how is Work Up still on this analysis?

Oh, and also, this may just be my opinion but... I think that the Nasty Plot set should be...

[Set]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Focus Blast / Ice Beam
move 4: Grass Knot / Ice Beam
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
ability: Gluttony
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

I feel like the ability to break through both Jellicent and Ferrothorn is extremely hard to give up. Ice Beam actually seems like a minor option, as Grass-types aren't all that common outside of Ferrothorn, who is OHKO'd by a +2 Focus Blast. While this does leave you walled by many Dragon-types, you're outsped by the most common of them, regardless (Garchomp, Lati@s, while the rest of the Dragons are commonly Scarfed besides Dragonite). Ice Beam is slashed on both because, with a STAB Hydro Pump, Grass/Ice and Fighting/Ice provide great coverage (outside of either Ferrothorn or Jellicent, respectively).

-Zane
 
am zane ok. said:
In response to Work Up even being an acceptable set...

+1 Life Orb Naive Crunch vs. Utility Counter Jellicent = 56.08% - 66%

+2 Life Orb Grass Knot vs. Utility Counter Jellicent = 111.17% - 130.52%

Even +2 Hidden Power Dark does more than +1 Crunch to Jellicent. And, to my knowledge, that's the main target of Crunch, right?

So... how is Work Up still on this analysis?

Oh, and also, this may just be my opinion but... I think that the Nasty Plot set should be...

[Set]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Focus Blast / Ice Beam
move 4: Grass Knot / Ice Beam
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
ability: Gluttony
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

I feel like the ability to break through both Jellicent and Ferrothorn is extremely hard to give up. Ice Beam actually seems like a minor option, as Grass-types aren't all that common outside of Ferrothorn, who is OHKO'd by a +2 Focus Blast. While this does leave you walled by many Dragon-types, you're outsped by the most common of them, regardless (Garchomp, Lati@s, while the rest of the Dragons are commonly Scarfed besides Dragonite). Ice Beam is slashed on both because, with a STAB Hydro Pump, Grass/Ice and Fighting/Ice provide great coverage (outside of either Ferrothorn or Jellicent, respectively).

-Zane
Click to expand...

You are only hurting yourself by running Work Up really. You still can't KO everything you are trying to gain coverage on, which means you die.

Your spread actually doesn't look too bad. I can't think of anything common that only Ice Beam easily takes care of. As you said, Dragons are scarfed often, and Ice-weak Grass types aren't common enough.
 
Aerodactyl Legend said:
You are only hurting yourself by running Work Up really. You still can't KO everything you are trying to gain coverage on, which means you die.

Your spread actually doesn't look too bad. I can't think of anything common that only Ice Beam easily takes care of. As you said, Dragons are scarfed often, and Ice-weak Grass types aren't common enough.
Click to expand...

Woah! I did something right! I guess my effort is really just because I wanted this analysis, but missed it, bahahahaha.

But yeah. Work Up NEEDS to be removed. There is almost no merit to using it over Nasty Plot (and +2 SpA is far too valuable to give up; it hits most things harder than any +1 physical attack). I mean, because Crunch can't even OHKO Jellicent, there is very little use for it at all.

However, using Brick Break over Crunch is probably the most beneficial thing for the set (with Grass Knot to fill in the slash of Focus Blast)...

+1 Life Orb Brick Break vs. 252/252 Bold Blissey = 57.98% - 68.35%.

A solid 2HKO.

But still...

+2 Life Orb Focus Blast vs. 252/0 Bold Blissey = 60.22% - 70.87%.

It can still 2HKO (if you're lucky, considering Focus Blast's crappy accuracy).

But really, in both situations, you're most likely to end up either Toxic'd or paralyzed, so you're better off switching regardless of the set.

Meanwhile, regarding other threats...

+1 Life Orb Grass Knot vs. Utility Counter Jellicent = 76.92% - 90.82%
+1 Life Orb Brick Break vs. Standard Ferrothorn = 44.89% - 52.84%

This means that both Jellicent and Ferrothorn can still ruin Simipour. Switch in on the Cheer Up, and Jellicent can burn with Will-o-Wisp (then proceed to be KO'd), or Ferrothorn can simply KO with Power Whip, or cripple with Thunder Wave.

So, basically, the Nasty Plot set can handle all of these opponents more reliably (besides Blissey, since Focus Blast is an asshole). In fact, it's especially valuable for its ability to OHKO both Jellicent and Ferrothorn, only to be stopped by Blissey (or worse... Chansey. But what non-Fighting-type isn't stopped by Chansey..?). This is great, considering no setup sweeper enjoys having to lose their boosts and give a free turn to the opponent.

-Zane
 
"Sits on a unique base speed of 101, which allows it to outspeed base 100's."

This speed is also shared by Landlos so isn't unique. Just a minor nitpick.
 
I'm rejecting this analysis. Simipour just isn't up to standard, to be blunt it sucks. There are better Water-type sweepers (Starmie etc) its not particularly fast and its really frail. Yes its unique, but that doesn't mean it's any good.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
 
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