Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread

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Simple Questions & Simple Answers​

This thread is dedicated to asking simple questions about SS-oriented metagames and receiving simple, concise answers in return. The kinds of questions you can ask here range from simple metagame questions to specific questions regarding sets and cores. If you have a question about the metagame and you had the goal to make a thread to ask it, it most likely belongs here instead.

When asking questions, consider the following:
  • Description. The more specific you are with your question, the more specific and likely the more accurate of an answer you'll get in return.
  • Proximity. Avoid asking questions about other generational metagames that do not pertain to Generation 8. Chances are you're looking for a different generational subforum, which you can find on the RoA directory.
  • Courtesy. Remember to be respectful when asking questions, and avoid instigation if you are not satisfied with the answer. If you'd like elaboration, request so respectfully.
  • Conciseness. This thread is the "Simple Question, Simple Answer" thread, and should be treated as such. Minimize conversations and use the respective discussion threads if necessary. With your questions, try to get to the point and avoid extraneous discussion.
When answering questions, consider the following:
  • Experience. This should go without saying, but if you do not know the answer to the question you're aiming to answer, you shouldn't be answering it.
  • Courtesy. There is no such thing as a stupid question, so long as it abides by the basic policies of the thread. Treat all questioners the way you want to be treated.
  • Conciseness. This thread is the "Simple Question, Simple Answer" thread, and should be treated as such. Minimize conversations and use the respective discussion threads if necessary. Be sure to keep answers as straightforward and comprehensible as possible, too.
Remember that at any point, moderators have the discretion to intervene or remove posts as necessary.
 
I have a question regarding Teatime's Mechanics. So Bulbapedia notes how Teatime can still poll and continue through all mons if electrified on an opponent with Lightningrod. I'm curious if, since it can trigger that, if it doesn't work on ground types if electrified
I don't have a Switch so I can't test, but I'd basically...

-Get a mon that knows Electrify (Boltund is one)
-A Trick user with a berry. Gourgeist works
-Polteageist with Teatime
Then go against an enemy that's ground type
On turn one;
-Turn 1 start with Boltund and Gourgeist. Have Gourgeist use Trick on the ground type enemy. Boltund use protect
-Turn 2 switch Gourgeist to Polteageist. Keep defending
-Turn 3 have Boltund use electrify on Polteageist. Then use Teatime with Poltea

And then see if it does affect the ground type mon or not. Showdown I'm not sure if it has this edge case
 
Why is gen8ou still so heavily disliked by a lot of players? It's pretty balanced overall, and there are many viable team structures (ranging from HO to stall) which should allow everyone to find something they enjoy in the tier.
 
utofa said:
Why is gen8ou still so heavily disliked by a lot of players? It's pretty balanced overall, and there are many viable team structures (ranging from HO to stall) which should allow everyone to find something they enjoy in the tier.
Click to expand...

I really enjoy gen 8 but here's the reasons I've heard.


No defining generation gimmick
Since we banned dynamax early on in the meta there's no generational gimmick like tear, megas, z-moves. This has seemed to put people off enjoying generation 8.

Clef vs Clef/Pex vs Pex/Clef vs Pex wars
People think the meta often amounts to fishing for spa attack drops with moonblast with clef vs clef or pex vs pex spamming knock trying to catch the recover. This is a misconception and doesn't happen often. Across all the spl games played so far this sz there have been 2 games that had some sort of clef/pex wars.

Match up fish meta
People say a lot of games amount to fishing for a good match up to win, such as this game of Luigi vs Soulwind. In this game you see soulwinds stall get demolished by a very clear cteam to soulwinds stall, with magnezone, LO weavile and a nihilego set that could 6-0 from lead as pex is most definetly not haze or soulwind would've clicked it. This can be true if you bring a team with an outstanding weakness to some archetype as all teams have. But from my expereince if you bring a good team almost every match up is entirely playable except for the 1 or two barely used mons that may win vs you such as the nihilego set with no power gem and painsplit which is unviable into pretty much anything else (believe me I tried to make this nihilego set work for a month when this tier was current gen).

Heavy Duty Boots
The presence of boots limits the effectiveness of hazards and allow stall to just shrug off hazards which let double switches go unpunished. It also allows mons like torn-t to have incredible longevity. Although the presence of knock off on a huge pool of mons allows you to take items easily such as torns boots.

Slow progress
People find that progress is slow in the metagame which is entirely true in balance vs balance or stall vs balance teams. Alot of games amount to taking items early, applying status with twave or toxic and wearing down checks slowly to allow a mon like weavile to win. Otherwise offense games vs anything but stall are finished quickly in my opinion.

Burn out from playing
Generation 8 was the current generation for 3 years, although the meta changed with Pokemon home and the DLCs people are extremely burnt out from it being the current generation.

I think no singular thing has put people off this meta but the amalgamation of these things has done so. I still really enjoy this meta and I think people who haven't given it a chance since the Kyurem meta should do so. Its an incredibly fun metagame that hasn't been entirely explored and it rewards skilled play.
 
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Are there any plans for a VR thread here? Additionally, what happened to the final SS OU VR slate?
 
Where are the ss lower tiers hubs/viability rankings?

I wanted to look at the ss pu viability rankings, but it seems to be missing.
 
What are some Pokemon that had a notable place in the SS OU meta early on (before crown tundra) that you no longer really see being used? I know Togekiss is an example. Thanks in advance.
 
ssuperiority said:
What are some Pokemon that had a notable place in the SS OU meta early on (before crown tundra) that you no longer really see being used? I know Togekiss is an example. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Mandibuzz is a big one iirc - it was a staple but now is relegated to the occasional team that really needs the role compression it provides (pivot, dragapult/grasses answer, defogger)
 
ssuperiority said:
What are some Pokemon that had a notable place in the SS OU meta early on (before crown tundra) that you no longer really see being used? I know Togekiss is an example. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
I remember seeing a lot of rotom heat during the isle of armor meta, it was a good pivot and defogger but once the tundra dropped It fell off hard.
 
This is a small point, but since Ordinary Keldeo with Secret Sword turns into Resolute Keldeo whenever it learns or forgets a move (or at the end of a battle), shouldn't there be certain move combinations that are illegal on Ordinary Keldeo? Basically, Secret Sword + any move it can only learn in Gen 8.
 
Anyone know the reasoning behind the change to suspect testing in Generation 8 that happened between #5 and #6?

Namely, this requirement https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-ss-ou-suspect-process-round-6-fireball.3670532/
Reading this is mandatory for participating in the suspect test. The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 80 with at least 50 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 80 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 84. Also, needing more than 50 games to reach 80 GXE will suffice.
Click to expand...

What was wrong with the previous ways of suspect testing and why did they choose the specific cutoffs they did?
 
In Noam Chomsky's post, endless battle clause was updated to include Leppa+recycle, but I've been using it forever. However, sometimes Leppa+recycle+fling auto disqualifies me and sometimes it doesn't. I'm curious to know what triggers and doesn't trigger the clause.

I did my own testing and this is what I've seen:

If the player blocks the opponent, they can use recycle and leppa endlessly without triggering EBC. 1,000 turn limit to tie.

If the player blocks the opponent AND uses fling, recycle, and leppa, the player will trigger EBC after 100 turns and lose if neither switches. If the blocking player switches out before turn 100, the game continues. But if the originally blocking pokemon blocks the originally flinged/blocked opponent's pokemon, the game will end, even at turn 999. If the originally blocked opponent never gets blocked again, the game will continue. I'm assuming the EBC will trigger if block and fling leppa are used on a new pokemon, thus starting a seperate 100 turn limit, but also keeping count of the previous 100-turn limit of the original set of blocker and blockee. I'll need to test more.

If one player has fling, recycle, and leppa, and the opponent has just block+leppa+recycle, after 100 turns EBC will trigger and the game will end with a tie.

"Each side's team started with the rudimentary means to perform restorative berry-cycling."

IF the blocked mon is freed, the game continues past 100 turns, but, if the opponent's first blocked pokemon is blocked again by the original pokemon who blocked it, the game will end.

If both players have fling recycle and leppa, the game will end with a tie after 100 turns. I'm not sure if using the moves block leppa and recycle forces a tie, or if one player never uses the combination, they'd win. I'm not sure if the game scans both teams at EBC's trigger.

If one player has fling, recycle, and leppa, and the opponent has block, recycle, leppa, the game ends in a tie after 100 turns. Again, I'm not sure if both teams are checked for the strategy or if both players have to use at least block, recycle and their leppa.

EBC will not trigger if the blocked opponent is holding a shed shell, even if flinged with leppa and blocked.

However, if shed shell is removed, EBC will trigger at turn 100. I've tested with trick, but not knock off.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1938427480-dtqpsmepgriy0ilfvbprr4h0mikcdk6pw



I'm not sure if EBC will trigger if the opponent is a ghost type, or if they have a switch move like u-turn, volt switch, baton pass, teleport, flip turn.
I'm not sure if a sub will free, or if Emergency exit does or doesn't trigger ebc.

I'm curious what would happen if two pokemon on the same team had fling/block recycle leppa. Would one block trigger ebc but the other's wont?
 
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jorm201 said:
In Noam Chomsky's post, endless battle clause was updated to include Leppa+recycle, but I've been using it forever. However, sometimes Leppa+recycle+fling auto disqualifies me and sometimes it doesn't. I'm curious to know what triggers and doesn't trigger the clause.

I did my own testing and this is what I've seen:

If the player blocks the opponent, they can use recycle and leppa endlessly without triggering EBC. 1,000 turn limit to tie.

If the player blocks the opponent AND uses fling, recycle, and leppa, the player will trigger EBC after 100 turns and lose if neither switches. If the blocking player switches out before turn 100, the game continues. But if the originally blocking pokemon blocks the originally flinged/blocked opponent's pokemon, the game will end, even at turn 999. If the originally blocked opponent never gets blocked again, the game will continue. I'm assuming the EBC will trigger if block and fling leppa are used on a new pokemon, thus starting a seperate 100 turn limit, but also keeping count of the previous 100-turn limit of the original set of blocker and blockee. I'll need to test more.

If one player has fling, recycle, and leppa, and the opponent has just block+leppa+recycle, after 100 turns EBC will trigger and the game will end with a tie.

"Each side's team started with the rudimentary means to perform restorative berry-cycling."

IF the blocked mon is freed, the game continues past 100 turns, but, if the opponent's first blocked pokemon is blocked again by the original pokemon who blocked it, the game will end.

If both players have fling recycle and leppa, the game will end with a tie after 100 turns. I'm not sure if using the moves block leppa and recycle forces a tie, or if one player never uses the combination, they'd win. I'm not sure if the game scans both teams at EBC's trigger.

If one player has fling, recycle, and leppa, and the opponent has block, recycle, leppa, the game ends in a tie after 100 turns. Again, I'm not sure if both teams are checked for the strategy or if both players have to use at least block, recycle and their leppa.

EBC will not trigger if the blocked opponent is holding a shed shell, even if flinged with leppa and blocked.

However, if shed shell is removed, EBC will trigger at turn 100. I've tested with trick, but not knock off.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1938427480-dtqpsmepgriy0ilfvbprr4h0mikcdk6pw



I'm not sure if EBC will trigger if the opponent is a ghost type, or if they have a switch move like u-turn, volt switch, baton pass, teleport, flip turn.
I'm not sure if a sub will free, or if Emergency exit does or doesn't trigger ebc.

I'm curious what would happen if two pokemon on the same team had fling/block recycle leppa. Would one block trigger ebc but the other's wont?
Click to expand...
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1938455915-42mdrufdf18hx3umtqsjfs5d0z9c7tgpw

EBC will activate even if the trapped pokemon has u-turn.

The game does check both teams for the strategy of block+recyle+leppa. It doesn't have to be used in battle. It will end in a tie.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1938458098-lnyrtm57y3ognpn5h4wg0zqgbj9coplpw

EBC doesn't trigger on ghosts and doesn't keep a counter on them. It will start a new counter on a non-ghost type.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1938464377-jd7d4lv4qmj4o7hfo46piujyqwr12udpw

2 separate blocks will not overlap on 100 turn limit. New blocker can block the opponent's pokemon and not trigger ebc.

However, I'm curious why this game ended at turn 128 and not turn 200?
 
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jorm201 said:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1938455915-42mdrufdf18hx3umtqsjfs5d0z9c7tgpw

EBC will activate even if the trapped pokemon has u-turn.

The game does check both teams for the strategy of block+recyle+leppa. It doesn't have to be used in battle. It will end in a tie.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1938458098-lnyrtm57y3ognpn5h4wg0zqgbj9coplpw

EBC doesn't trigger on ghosts and doesn't keep a counter on them. It will start a new counter on a non-ghost type.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1938464377-jd7d4lv4qmj4o7hfo46piujyqwr12udpw

2 separate blocks will not overlap on 100 turn limit. New blocker can block the opponent's pokemon and not trigger ebc.

However, I'm curious why this game ended at turn 128 and not turn 200?
Click to expand...
Update: If your pokemon flings a Leppa at opponent's pokemon-A, it will trigger ebc if you block that pokemon past 100 turns, even if you Block and recycle Leppa opponent's pokemon-B for 100+ turns.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1940869476-vks70lg6e3l6hi8adanrtgsz43hkpwupw
 
Is Decidueye viable or does it have any niche in any of the gen 8 doubles tiers?

Edit: If it's not viable anywhere, what outclasses it in gen 8 UU?
 
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