You're so golden
OU & NU Leader
Hey everyone, the OU tiering council has decided to retest Cinderace.
Cinderace was initially quickbanned from SS OU after proving to be consistently problematic in the metagame. After a month and change of post-Cinderace and Magearna adjustments, including a lots of recent metagame shifts, the OU tiering council believes now is the best time to give Cinderace a retest. Please note that a retest does not make it an official addition to the OU tier, but rather it allows for Cinderace to have the opportunity to be voted down from Ubers to OU. In order to have an accurate vote, we will be retesting Cinderace on the OU ladder over the next two weeks, much like any other suspect test.
Cinderace had a large impact on the metagame ever since Libero got released just before DLC 1: Isle of Armor. After a survey indicated that a vast majority of the playerbase viewed Cinderace as problematic, the OU council continued to monitor it throughout the Magearna suspect test. Ultimately, we concluded that banning Cinderace for the time being made sense given the rapidly changing state of the metagame so long as we met the condition of retesting Cinderace in the future. This retest will give players who achieve voting requisites a chance to fully examine Cinderace's place in the metagame; they will be able to determine if Cinderace is banworthy or not with this information.
Cinderace is a potent physical attacker with access to Libero and a variety of strong coverage moves. It is capable of dealing large amounts of damage with its signature move, Pyro Ball, but it is equally threatening with Gunk Shot. Both of these moves are able to push would-be checks to their limits, potentially even breaking through with proper conditions. Pyro Ball and Gunk Shot are not all Cinderace has at its disposal, though. Zen Headbutt allows Cinderace to threaten Toxapex and Kommo-o and others, while U-turn allows for pivoting and wearing down normal counterplay. Alternatively, Sucker Punch allows for boosted priority, potentially taking out Dragapult and helping Cinderace sweep if it elects to use a Bulk Up variant instead of a pivot variant. With impressive speed and attack, Cinderace is able to make use of these moves in conjunction with Libero to be one of the most threatening offensive presences we have seen all generation.
While Cinderace is relatively frail, it does have a lot of things going for it that make it more accessible in-battle. Libero can help change typings to prompt timely resistances, making it so that Cinderace is not stuck with the mono-Fire typing defensively. Heavy Duty Boots, a staple item on Cinderace, permits repeated pivoting despite a weakness to Stealth Rock and vulnerability to other forms of entry hazards. You also find Cinderace partnered with lots of Pokemon that have access to U-turn, Volt Switch, and Teleport, permitting safe entry against otherwise threatening Pokemon. While it may be true that Cinderace is appreciative of momentum oriented support, it would be a stretch to say it is outright reliant on these types of teammates as it is a massive threat to opposing teams regardless of what team it finds itself on.
With this said, there are some checks and counters to Cinderace. With mono-Fire typing, Cinderace finds itself constantly threatened by Water types such as Toxapex, Slowbro, Gastrodon, and the surging Urshifu-Rapid-Strike. The former two in particular can check it defensively, but must be fearful of Zen Headbutt and U-turn respectively. In addition, Ground types like Rhyperior and Hippowdon are able to handle Cinderace both offensively and defensively so long as they do not get chipped down too much. Knock Off poses a major threat to Cinderace as losing Heavy Duty Boots can cut away at Cinderace's longevity and status such as paralysis or poison also make it far less effective in the long haul, thus making Cinderace limited in-battle during certain match-ups. Finally, Cinderace relies on moves that have potential drawbacks such as the accuracy of Pyro Ball and Gunk Shot. Given how fragile Cinderace is, a single misfire can lead to it being permanently crippled or even taken out prematurely.
Cinderace is not an unstoppable force in the metagame and giving it a fair retest was deemed a priority by the SS OU council. It is a very strong and fast Pokemon with an unmatched offensive profile that oftentimes allows it to break down defensive cores as games play-out. Libero is a fantastic ability that Cinderace makes use of very well due to its physically offensive movepool as well. However, there are still checks and counters present in the metagame and this retest can be used to gauge if those are sufficient or if Cinderace is still broken in the SS OU metagame. This thread should be used to focus on Cinderace's place in the suspect metagame and nothing else. There should be no discussion of alternative suspects or discussion opposing this retest. Normal suspect rules and procedure, which is outlined below, applies to this retest as well. Finally, the threshold necessary to unban Cinderace is 50%+1 due to it being a retest and for more on this, consult this thread
- ***THIS IS NEW TO SS OU SUSPECTS*** Reading this is mandatory for participating in the suspect test. The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 80 with at least 50 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 80 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 84. Also, needing more than 50 games to reach 80 GXE will suffice.
- You must signup with a newly registered account on Pokemon Showdown! that begins with the appropriate prefix for the suspect test. For this suspect test, the prefix will be OUTI. For example, I might signup with the ladder account OUTI FINCH.
- Laddering with an account that impersonates, mocks, or insults another Smogon user or breaks Pokemon Showdown! rules may be disqualified from voting and infracted. Moderator discretion will be applied here. If there is any doubt or hesitance when making the alt, just pick another name. There are infinite possibilities and we have had trouble for this repeatedly. If you wish to participate in the suspect, you should be able to exhibit decent enough judgement here. We will not be lenient.
- We will be using the regular OU ladder for this suspect test. We will not be creating a new Suspect Ladder. At the beginning of every battle, there will be an announcement denoting the ongoing suspect with a link to this thread.
- The aspect being tested, Cinderace, will be allowed on the ladder.
- Any form of voting manipulation will result in swift and severe punishment. You are more than welcome to state your argument to as many people as you so please, but do not use any kind of underhanded tactics to get a result you desire. Bribery, blackmail, or any other type of tactic used to sway votes will be handled and sanctioned.
- Do not attempt to cheat the ladder. We will know if you did not actually achieve voting requisites, so don't do it. Harsh sanctions will be applied.
- Unlike previous tests, we will be posting the voting identification thread immediately after this thread. Your voting requisites will be confirmed by a Council member or OU moderator, to which we will edit in confirmation. Please avoid getting more games before getting confirmed.
- The suspect test will go on for two weeks, lasting until September 27th at 11:59 pm (GMT-4), and then we will put up the voting thread in the Blind Voting subforum.
- No unhelpful one liners nor uninformed posts;
- No discussion on other potential suspects;
- No discussion on the suspect process -- this includes retesting Cinderace vs other potential suspects;
- You are required to make respectful posts;
- You are required to read this thread before posting.
- Failure to follow these simple guidelines will result in your post being deleted and infracted without any prior warning.
- Please also take a moment to read over some suggestions from the OU Council and the OU Moderation team for posting in this thread; adhering these will help out our time moderating the thread and present your arguments better and more educated.
- Do not argue because it's your favorite Pokemon. This should be common sense, but please don't do this, because we will delete posts like this.
- You do not need a boatload of experience to have an informed opinion, but please try to minimize the theorymon aspect and use your experiences watching and playing. Playing some on the ladder before posting is plenty if you're concerned about this.
- Do not flame, belittle, or be disrespectful to users in this thread. While not everyone will read this post in its entirety nor will everyone have informed opinion, please be sure not to be disrespectful. If there's an issue, bring it up to a moderater.
- Do not use the argument of broken checking broken. Should your argument rest on your opinion that banning the Pokemon or mechanic being tested in this suspect test will make a Pokemon or mechanic broken, overpowered, and/or uncompetitive; don't. If something needs to be banned because of the result this suspect, then so be it.
- This thread is not to voice complaints about the suspect process or decisions of the council. While we are more than open to hearing complaints that may arise, this isn't the place for it. I suggest you message the OU Council, PM our Tier Leaders, TDK and Eo Ut Mortus, or make a post in Senior Staff requests, should you have a badge.
Keep in mind that our suspect tests are decided by the community; anyone who achieves voting requisites is allowed to vote. The outcome is up to you. Happy posting and laddering!