Battle Spot Singles M-Venusaur Team

[imBLIND]

Currently trying to assemble a team that will get me past 1700, and I think I have a good combination, but I just keep floating in between 1550-1650. I've been working on this team for a couple of weeks now, and I've gone through a lot of iterations of it, but I can't seem to stay above 1600 for very long .

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow / Thick Fat
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/ 96 Def / 144 SpD / 16 Spe
-Sludge Bomb
-Giga Drain
-Leech Seed
-Synthesis

Copied straight from the Smogon M-Venusaur page. 16 Spe is for Azumarill, and the rest of the EV's are meant to tank a Charizard Y Overheat in the sun at full HP, which should allow me to revenge kill with Venusaur should the opportunity ever comes up...Chlorophyll would obviously be better here, but I've never had the opportunity to use it. I've surprisingly have not had too much of a problem here, since I've managed to paralyze it and paraflinch it to death with Togekiss.

Togekiss @ Kings Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Bold
EVS: 252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-T-wave
-Air Slash
-Roost
-Heal Bell

Again, copied straight out of Smogon Togekiss page. Paraflinch is my cheap answer to covering anything that isn't a ground, steel, or electric type pokemon....quick, easy, and works most of the time. NP set up with paraflinch takes too long in my opinion, so I decided to just run extra utlity with Heal Bell instead. Max HP/Def bulk for maximum survability against the common BSS mons. T-wave/Heal bell for M-Venusaur works pretty well.

Cresselia @ Rocky Helmet
Ability : Levitate
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Def, 4 SpD
-Ice beam
-Thunder wave
-Moonlight
-Lunar Dance

Self explanatory I hope..Lunar dance is for restoring Venasaur and Togekiss. She's also a reliable T-wave support, and can usually tank anything aside from a super-effective crit or a Taunt. Not using Porygon2 here because it has a fighting type weakness, and I've found that pokemon with STAB fighting or fighting coverage will always run Ice with it as well, which means its difficult to pair it with my Togekiss or any thing weak to Ice for that matter.

Rotom-W @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 Hp/ 196 Def / 60 SpA
-Trick
-HP Ice
-Hydro Pump
-Volt Switch

Finally found out what EVs im running on Rotom. I'm highly considering using Tbolt or Discharge instead of Volt switch, as I'm finding I'm not using the move enough to justify having it there, and its not netting me enough KO's. Trick is for crippling any annoying defensive mon's and/or CM users before they can set Up. I wanted to use Scarf because i'd typically be switching Specs on to SpA mon's, but I just like the extra power boost from the Specs too much, as Specs boosted HP Ice on any 252Atk/252Spe Garchomp or Salamence will typically kill it or critically wound it.

Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Jolly
EVS: 252 Atk/252 Spe / 4 SpD
-Superpower
-Icicle Crash
-EQ
-Knock Off

Icicle Crash over Icicle Spear for consistency and paraflinch opportunities. Superpower to Kill Kang after Rocky Helmet damage and possibities of killing a wounded Ferrothorn. Choice Scarf checks all the dragons, Aegislash, Greninja (to some degree), and Gengar, with the added bonus of being able to revenge kill a lot of pokemon, most notably Charizard X and Y, when they're at half health. I haven't been able to use Knock off that much, but it's a safe option if I know they're going to switch. Definitely open to replacing Mamoswine and/or the moveset.

Talonflame @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
EVS: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4SpD
-BB
-Flare Blitz
-Roost
-Swords Dance

I needed a priority user and a revenge killer that I could switch in, get an SD up, and start BBing everything. By the time I bust the SD out, a lot of their team should already be at half health, at which point a +2 BB should be able to finish everything up for me. I don't mind poison or paralysis that much because of Heal Bell and Lunar Dance support, so I opted to go for Sitrus to give me some extra HP.

Former teammates:

Heatran@Leftovers
-Toxic, Substitute, Protect, Magma Storm

Used a SpD Toxic stall heatran to rack up chip damage and to trap pokemon. I replaced Heatran with Talonflame because he was too passive and was unable to do anything to CM boosters. Heatran was supposed to be the 2nd wall that works well with M-Venusaur, and Toxicstall support, but this just didn't work against Salamence, Kang, Lucario, Charizard-X/Y, and other hard hitting pokemon. The only time he was useful was when I was able to Substitute on the switch and Toxic/magma/sub stall a slower pokemon, which didn't happen enough.

Hydreigon@Choice Scarf
-Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Dark Pulse, Draco Meteor

Realized I was lacking physical attackers, so I replaced Hydreigon with Mamoswine. I really miss this guy though, as the dark-typing worked very well with M-Venusaur. Again, it was just the CM boosters that I couldn't dent/stay in against (Suicune and Sylveon are the main culprits here).

Blaziken@Blazikenite
-Flare Blitz, HJK, Stone Edge, Protect

This guy was great until I ran into a Talonflame or a WP Aegislash. I have Talonflames doubly checked with Rotom-W and Cresselia, but Stealth Rocks and constant switching just didn't cut it out for my Blaziken. I kinda want to put him back in the lineup, as Mamoswine is not strong enough by itself to get a lot of revenge KO's with the scarf.

Swampert/Hippo/Ferro/P2

I've used these guys in place of cresselia, but honestly, Cresselia is just way better for this team, and while SR is nice, I just don't have enough time to set them up. Roar was great for CM boosters as well, but other wise, was kinda useless. Foul Play on P2 was pretty useful vs SD users, but its usefulness was short-lived against common NP and Focus Blast users like Lucario, Thundurus, Hydreigon, and Gengar.

Problems I still need to address:

Damage taken to Damage Dealt With a paraflinch team, I just can't do enough damage sometimes, especially since I'm running so much utility in my core defensive pokemon. I want to run Aura Blast on Togekiss since steel walls Venusaur, Cresselia, and Togekiss, but I'd have to rebreed another Togekiss with the egg move T.T...anyways, if I'm not outputting enough damage with the paraflinch, I don't have very good coverage with the defensive pokemon, and it's difficult getting Mamoswine/Talonflame/Rotom-W in without getting hurt very badly. Should I use a double screens Cresselia...?

Any kind of setup sweeper. Since this team is a stall team and I am switching out a lot, it doesn't take much for my opponent to just take a risk and go for the SD/NP. Talonflame priority helps greatly here, but I need a 2nd answer for these setupsweepers...I was thinking of a Bulky Taunt user, but I wouldn't even know what to replace or who to bring on.

Annoying Gimmicky/Haxy/Cheap mons. I know paraflinch is in that category too, but Swagplay Klefkis, SubSeed Whimsicott, Guillotine Gliscor...my team is not suited to deal with all these gimmicks. very well.

 

[Omastar68]

Hello again. One problem with this RMT is you're missing natures, so add those in. Sometimes it's obvious, but still.

I've used Mega Venu before, but not for a while. Just doesn't seem that good. Yours I wouldn't run Spe and just throw that in whichever defense. I know it's just a little, but who goes max Spe on base 50s? I'm guessing you have an odd SpD IV, so the evs shouldn't be divisible by 8, So you probably want to bump the investment up to 148 evs. If you really want the Spe(?) 12 evs give the same stat as 16.

That set for Togekiss is really in an analysis? Weird, King's Rock sucks unless you have Skill Link and multi hit moves. The chance it adds to anything else isn't worth the item slot. I would run Leftovers on this Togekiss since it's bulky and you should be getting lots of free turns. Heal Bell isn't very viable, and honestly I don't think this team is even especially status weak. I think you should run Encore instead.

Cress is the standard and always looks good, really. If you feel like you're not getting much out of Lunar Dance you could run Psychic, though two strong flying moves devalues that coverage. There are a few other options though like Toxic, but I think it's fine.

Rotom-W looks goo. No Spe is an interesting choice. But I think I agree since you have T-Wave and the thing just isn't fast anyways. The standard for choice has T-Bolt over HP Ice. I'd consider that since you have ice coverage already, and Chomp isn't very threatening to you. Mence maybe, though Mamo destroys it. Cress often wins unless it's SpD Mence. I woul not use Discharrge on Specs since the power difference is magnified. On bulky Rotoms sure, but not here.

Mamo I think you'd do better with a sash set and Ice Shard and Icicle Spear over your first two moves. I'd still go Jolly though. Scarf Mamo seems like it could be good, but being locked in sucks. Not being able to Ice Shard means you typically lose to other sash stuff, and no Icicle Spear stinks. imo that's the main draw of Mamo. You break the majority of common subs(Mence, Whimsi, Gliscor, etc.) and lots of sashes too(Breloom, Chomp, some Lando-T, etc.) 100 accuracy, and not much less power in general.

Very odd Talon set, you never see Sitrus pretty much. Talon for me is a mon you add to the team earlier, here it seems like kinda a hasty add. I mean it could work, but you definitely have some problems with both common Rotoms, which Talon sucks against. Also you say you're switching a lot, so you must have some problems with SR, and Talon just exacerbates that. Honestly, Talon is a great mon, but I'd replace it or make other changes on the team to better acomodate it.

What I think would be a great replacement is a Kangaskhan. Two megas is very viable, and Kang is almost always good. deals somewhat well with your problem areas. Sucker Punch can help by revenging a set up mon you couldn't outspeed, especiialy if you're boosted from PuP. It is one of the better answers to Whimsicott since that can't take it's attacks wel at all and can be set up fodder, and Klefki fears an EQ if it isn't a Magnet Rise variant. You seem to like flinch a lot, me too, and Rock Slide flinches more often than not(well not really cuz misses, but still.) idk why it isn't in the top 10 moves for Kang, but it is very much viable.

 

[imBLIND]

Sorry about forgetting the natures..I edited them in.

I took the 16 Spe EVS I had and put 4 of them in SpD as you said, 8 in SpA instead for some higher chances of 2hko without leech seed on Charizard with Sludgebomb, and I left 4 Spe EVs to outspeed other M-Venusaurs ..seemed like an appropriate reinvestment to me.

I ended up replacing the Mamoswine with a DD/lum berry Dragonite because I don't feel like breeding Icicle spear onto another Mamoswine right now...works to somewhat the same effect damage-wise/revenge killing powers, but I'm missing out on strong coverage moves...I guess its for the best as people kept switching out into some kind of bulky steel pokemon that Mamoswine could barely 2HKO with Superpower to begin with. I can refill Dragonites health to full with Lunar Dance with no stealth rocks.

For a similar reason, I just don't want to breed a new Togekiss with Encore (I'm an idiot and evolved my Togetic before it learned Encore). I elected to replace Heal Bell with Aura Sphere for Steel-type coverage, as I got annoyed with stuff like Ferrothorn, Metagross, Rotom, and Mawile, so I wanted something that would at least hit for neutral damage against mons that resisted Air Slash so I don't have to use 8 Air Slashes to kill a Metagross or something similar.

I also replaced the Talonflame with the Kangaskhan as you suggested, and it's working out well with some promising results. I'm using PuP/Secret power/Sucker Punch/Rock slide, since my Dragonite already has EQ coverage and I'm planning on paraflinching the bulky steel types with a +2 Rock slide anyways.

My team is doing a lot better now; thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Omastar68]

Sorry about forgetting the natures..I edited them in.

I took the 16 Spe EVS I had and put 4 of them in SpD as you said, 8 in SpA instead for some higher chances of 2hko without leech seed on Charizard with Sludgebomb, and I left 4 Spe EVs to outspeed other M-Venusaurs ..seemed like an appropriate reinvestment to me.

I ended up replacing the Talonflame with a DD/lum berry Dragonite because I don't feel like breeding Icicle spear onto another Mamoswine right now...works to somewhat the same effect damage-wise/revenge killing powers, but I'm missing out on strong coverage moves...I guess its for the best as people kept switching out into some kind of bulky steel pokemon that Mamoswine could barely 2HKO with Superpower to begin with. I can refill Dragonites health to full with Lunar Dance with no stealth rocks.

For a similar reason, I just don't want to breed a new Togekiss with Encore (I'm an idiot and evolved my Togetic before it learned Encore). I elected to replace Heal Bell with Aura Sphere for Steel-type coverage, as I got annoyed with stuff like Ferrothorn, Metagross, Rotom, and Mawile, so I wanted something that would at least hit for neutral damage against mons that resisted Air Slash so I don't have to use 8 Air Slashes to kill a Metagross or something similar.

I also replaced the Talonflame with the Kangaskhan as you suggested, and it's working out well with some promising results. I'm using PuP/Secret power/Sucker Punch/Rock slide, since my Dragonite already has EQ coverage and I'm planning on paraflinching the bulky steel types with a +2 Rock slide anyways.

My team is doing a lot better now; thanks for the suggestions!

I'm glad its working better :) Without Talon you lack fire coverage, so I guess Flamethrower or Fire Blast might be good on Togekiss. Aura Sphere is kinda meh, and you have fighting coverage, not too weak to Kang really. I was thinking Flamethrower would be better than Blast on a bulky Kiss, but some calcs revealed Blast still has a very good chance to ohko Ferro and roasts any Scizor. All those steels you mentioned are hit harder by either fire move, and with Kang over Talon Rotoms should be less bad.

Venu 4 SpA is the same stat as 8...but I guess 4 evs free does nothing if you're invested in every used stat. You could run 12 SpA and no Spe, I don't think Venu mirrors are too big a deal and yours looks very likely to win most of the time with the extra SpD. Usually they're Modest though(well, that's the plurality lol. Less than half but most common nature.) So 1 point of SpA or Spe creep on other uninvested base 80s.

Umm, do you have DNite or Kang? You say you replacedTalon with both of them lol.

Just noticed you have Bold on Rotom even though it's Specs. What's the deal there? The first thing I thought about was Mega Kang's Adamant DE, but you can live that from full even with Modest and a bit less Def evs. You can't really take FO + DE from Adamant anyways, and that's trying to do too much with one mon. Rotom can't really be that bulky and hit really hard.

 

[imBLIND]

I'm glad its working better :) Without Talon you lack fire coverage, so I guess Flamethrower or Fire Blast might be good on Togekiss. Aura Sphere is kinda meh, and you have fighting coverage, not too weak to Kang really. I was thinking Flamethrower would be better than Blast on a bulky Kiss, but some calcs revealed Blast still has a very good chance to ohko Ferro and roasts any Scizor. All those steels you mentioned are hit harder by either fire move, and with Kang over Talon Rotoms should be less bad.

Venu 4 SpA is the same stat as 8...but I guess 4 evs free does nothing if you're invested in every used stat. You could run 12 SpA and no Spe, I don't think Venu mirrors are too big a deal and yours looks very likely to win most of the time with the extra SpD. Usually they're Modest though(well, that's the plurality lol. Less than half but most common nature.) So 1 point of SpA or Spe creep on other uninvested base 80s.

Umm, do you have DNite or Kang? You say you replacedTalon with both of them lol.

Just noticed you have Bold on Rotom even though it's Specs. What's the deal there? The first thing I thought about was Mega Kang's Adamant DE, but you can live that from full even with Modest and a bit less Def evs. You can't really take FO + DE from Adamant anyways, and that's trying to do too much with one mon. Rotom can't really be that bulky and hit really hard.

Meant to say I replaced Mamoswine with Dragonite...so many typos haha.

The Rotom I'm using is my "catch-all" Rotom...I've repurposed this guy's EV's a lot, so I haven't been able to use anything except a Bold nature one. He's supposed to be a tanky Rotom, but I swapped out the EV's for a Trick/Choice Specs one. Not ideal at all, I know, but I haven't run into that many situations where the nature would have netted me the OHKO.

I will say that I am running into a lot of situations where my Cresselia is unable to stop a Substitute setup, which makes me more inclined to breed Icicle spear onto a new Mamoswine...about half of those losses were to a CM/substitute setup, and then the other half were Substitute on stuff that I wouldn't have been able to stop with an Icicle spear (suicune in particular, along with faster sweepers that carried substitute, and one Rotom-H...). I also don't have any good switch-ins to Charizard-Y and M-Gengar, although it's pretty difficult to have good switch-ins to those mons...

I do like Aura Blast on Togekiss, but flamethrower does sound like a better idea...I haven't run into a Heatran yet, and even if i do, i still have EQ coverage elsewhere

 

[Omastar68]

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60 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 102-120 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO

So if you switch in on cm, it can do another one...I just thought of Trick lol, just Trick it cause it'll more than likely use cm again.

60 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 176-208 (95.6 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

This one kinda worries me though. You could run 100 SpA for the 93.8% chance to ohko non sash/yache. Still enough Def for our favorite Adamant DE.

100 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 172-204 (100.5 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bumping you up to 100 evs lol. So you kill standard Mence, but can't really pressure SpD Mence so it Roosts in your face and DDs. Since it'll likely only have facade to hit and no status it won't really break Rotom-W itself, but definitely not the best match up unless you get crits. SpD
Mence is good vs much of your team, but I don't think it's common enough to be a huge problem.

60 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Thundurus: 123-145 (79.8 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Here's a bad calc. Offensive Thund 2hkos, half the time even without LO. If you can't ohko it and it isn't weakened you lose. SpD Thund is a similiar story, but you rarely 2hko and it 3hkos.

another huge one is you have no chance to ohko any mega Gengar bar a crit. ofc max SpA mostly just gets offensiv Gar, but still.

100 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 76-90 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO

This is bad, and most any Aegi 2hkos. What's worse is max SpA T-Bolt even has a good chance to 2hko.

100 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 228 HP / 12 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 138-164 (67.6 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

AV Azu has risen a bit in popularity, 2nd most common item. 14.1% isn't a ton, but still. This means you are probably gonna take a lot from Play Rough and then be easy to revenge. Your Azu match up as a whole isn't too bad at least.

So that's about it. Many things like Hippo and AV Rhyperior you still ohko just fine with the right move, but I'd consider running max SpA. Just seems most reasonable with Specs. 252/ 4 Rotom would still take cb Outrage from Chomp, and you have little chance to tank +2 anyways. There are very many strong physical attackers and Rotom just can't take their attacks that well.

On Togekiss I think it'd be good to run some Spe. 60 sounds good, maybe a but more for creep since 107-109 are highly contested Spe tiers.

Kang should help a lot vs subs, but I ofc have no objection to Mamo w/ Icicle Spear. It'd be really good vs the majority of electrics too, which are always dangerous. Mega Manectric for one looks bad though it is rare. Char-Y and Gengar you're right there's like no switch ins. Heatran sometimes works for Char-y though, and Chandelure is almost always safe. Gengar idk, and once it's mega you can't switch in anyways. Pink blobs can switch in before it's megas, but they have to be able to hit it.

One other thing that's been gaining popularity, at least on PS, is Cloyster. That looks threatening, especially since the most common item is King's Rock. It has a good chance to flinch much of your stuff to death or at least low health, especially if boosted. The evs on Rotom-w don't help much with it either, +2 Rock Blast doesn't ohko 252/4 Rotom, and unboosted RB is just changed from a guaranteed 3hko to a 79% chance, not too big of a deal.

I might be exaggerating the threat of Cloyster, but it does destroy Dragonite and Togekiss and takes a lot out of the others. It's commonly seen with Volcarona, and that ruins Cress. It's actually not that great against Venu, but still not a great match up for you. Volc also takes unboosted Sucker from Kang, so usually you'd want to use PuP on it.

 

[cant say]

Mega Venusaur is almost exclusively seen on the famous BSS stall team of Gliscor / Chansey / (Mega) Slowbro / Skamory / Tyranitar / Mega Venusaur, I've basically never seen it used outside that setup. You've gone so far as to call this a "Mega Venusaur Team" but it doesn't really look like one, more like a SD Talonflame team with Venu and Mamo to take on Thundurus, Zapdos, and Heatran for Talon to sweep. This right there shows me that the purpose of this team isn't clearly defined, so it's kinda doomed from the start in that regard.