Sky Drop and Damaging Evasive Move Clause

[ZhengTann]

This thread will be moderated to keep discussion focused. But not by me. Yet. ​

Please refer to Feedback thread, pages 41 and 42 for a starting discussion.

The Pokemon grabs the opponent in its talons, and drops them from a great height. While in midair, the opponent can only use moves that either target itself, the user of Sky Drop, or the field. This move can hit any single Pokemon on the field, regardless of position. Gust, Hurricane, Sky Uppercut, Smack Down, Thunder, Twister, and Whirlwind cannot miss against either Pokemon in the evasive stage of Sky Drop. If the user of Sky Drop is hit by Smack down while in the evasive stage, it crashes to the ground and takes (2 * Weight Class + 4) damage while the target lands unharmed. If Gravity is used, both Pokemon take this crash damage. Sky Drop fails when used on a Substitute, or if the target's Weight Class is equal to or greater than the user's Weight Class + 3. If used on a Flying-type Pokemon, it will deal no damage but the attack will still lift the target into the air as normal.

.... Wow, that's a paragraphful. Now, according to veekun, Sky Drop is only available on 7 non-Legendary Pokemon lines. But despite its lack of mass distribution, some peeps would still think it is overpowered enough to warrant a review. So, let's jump straight into the question:

1. Which (combination of) aspect(s) of Sky Drop do you think is overpowered that requires it to be reviewed? (Let's say if the Feedback suggestion, altering Sub Clauses, is not a possible route to take?)
2. Sky Drop contains the word "evasive". Is it enough to warrant it in the "Damaging Evasive Move" Substitution clause? If not, under what conditions should it?
3. Aside from altering Sub Clauses, what other options can we explore to balance Sky Drop?

I know that some points have already been made in Feedback, but there are some that were raised in IRC and not here. If you remember any, please put them up. If you have more questions to raise, please write them up in your replies to the thread as well. Progress of this discussion will be tracked in the OP.

Fire away ^_^

 

[Dogfish44]

It's not OP. In singles it's irrelevant, in doubles it's annoying (Although for some strange reason people don't bring it to the Elec gym...)

I'm not sure on my actual position here - I'd ideally put "Sky Drop (Non Substitution Writer's Target)" as a valid D/E clause, but that's complex as all heck. In the same way, being in the middle of one should definitely be classed as being under the effect of a "Damaging / Evasive Move" for Pokémon that can't hit it, but again, that's highly complex. Heck, Raids might be worth looking at, since they have the 'Untargettable' chance clause, which might be a useful model.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Just posting here to note that I updated the wording of Sky Drop with the help of a few others on IRC at the time; it has been historically ruled to act like an offensive bodyblock by peeps like SDS and Deck many years ago, but the old wording did not make it clear. The new wording is:

The Pokémon grabs the opponent in its talons, and drops them from a great height. While in midair, the target of Sky Drop has its attack redirected to the user, and can only hit the user with its attacks (and cannot use Evasive Damaging Moves). Gust, Hurricane, Sky Uppercut, Smack Down, Thunder, Twister, and Whirlwind cannot miss against either Pokemon in the evasive stage of Sky Drop. If the user of Sky Drop is hit by Smack down while in the evasive stage, it crashes to the ground and takes (2 * Weight Class + 4) damage while the target lands unharmed. If Gravity is used, both Pokemon take this crash damage. Sky Drop fails when used on a Substitute, or if the target's Weight Class is equal to or greater than the user's Weight Class + 3. If used on a Flying-type Pokémon, it will deal no damage but the attack will still lift the target into the air as normal.

This clarifies:

• That it is in fact, an effective offensive bodyblock for the target.
• That the target can only hit the user for the purposes of multi-hit moves.
• That you cannot use EDM's under Sky Drop for flavour-based and other logical reasons; how are you expected to dig when you are in the air?

Effective immediately.

 

[FortColors]

While we are on the flavor subject, mons in the evasive stage of sky drop should be immune to seismic attacks because lol

 

[ZhengTann]

The Pokémon grabs the opponent in its talons, and drops them from a great height. While in midair, the target of Sky Drop has its attack redirected to the user, can only hit the user with its attacks, cannot use Evasive Damaging Moves, and is immune to Bulldoze, Earthquake, Fissure, and Magnitude. Gust, Hurricane, Sky Uppercut, Smack Down, Thunder, Twister, and Whirlwind cannot miss against either Pokemon in the evasive stage of Sky Drop. If the user of Sky Drop is hit by Smack down while in the evasive stage, it crashes to the ground and takes (2 * Weight Class + 4) damage while the target lands unharmed. If Gravity is used, both Pokemon take this crash damage. Sky Drop fails when used on a Substitute, or if the target's Weight Class is equal to or greater than the user's Weight Class + 3. If used on a Flying-type Pokémon, it will deal no damage but the attack will still lift the target into the air as normal.

Initial slate as follows:

Should the bolded part be added into Sky Drop's description?
Yes
No

Should battlers be able to lump Sky Drop and Damaging Evasive moves in a single clause?
Yes
Yes, but only in Doubles+
Yes, but only in Doubles+ and you're not the target
No

To be up in three days. Or more. If nobody raises anything else.