Slaking was Cool in the RSE Generation Take II

[Pocket]

Last year, I posted a team utilizing a Slaking http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65471&highlight=Slaking. I have went through many revisions, learning some lessons along the way. One of the lessons learned was that I can improve my chances of winning by having a fail-proof Rotom-H / Gengar counter. My latest revision revolved around dispatching Rotom-H and Gengar for optimizing Slaking's damage output and minimize damage done by these ghosts. There are many risks in having Slaking, which I tried my best to alleviate with the current team. Despite all of my efforts, it has been a rough trial in making this team to be consistently good, so I finally decided to post this team for some awesome advice.

TEAM AT A GLANCE

Metagross @ Choice Scarf
Clear Body - 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock
- Thunderpunch

Gengar buster. I previously had Iron Ball + Trick Lead, but my team is very slow and so I decided to re-assign Metagross the revenge-killing role. Meteor Mash + Pursuit terrorize Gengar and I added SR on Meta because I couldn't fit on any other monsters. Thunderpunch allows Metagross to revenge LO Starmie and Gyarados or to dent Suicune enough for Slaking / Celebi to finish off. I wish I could stick Zen Headbutt or EQ somewhere to revenge kill Infernape and Lucario, but my team has more trouble with the Waters.

Gyarados (F) @ Leftovers
Intimidate - 248 HP/184 Def/76 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Avalanche
- Waterfall
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Core defense of this team. Committed defense investment is essential for sponging fiery hits from Heatran and Infernape as well as weakening blows from Machamp and Lucario. Also a great switch-in to Scizor and Flygon's U-turn. Complements Metagross' weakness very well, coming in on Salamence's EQ / Fire Blast. It can then absorb a Draco Meteor or an Outrage to kill the dragon with an Avalanche.

I had Taunt over Rest to prevent set-up, and worked surprisingly well in conjunction with Avalanche, but with SR up Gyarados doesn't last long without Rest. Now it has a tendency of becoming a set-up fodder, though :/

Hariyama (M) @ Leftovers
Thick Fat - 136 HP/252 Def/120 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Force Palm
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Payback

With ghosts ideally removed, a Slaking + Fighting Type should reak havoc. I wanted a wall-busting Fighting type here, but ended up taking a defensive approach for a solid Tyranitar counter and more. Additionally, Hariyama, provides extra Infernape protection if Gyarados bites the dust; none of the moves can 2HKO. Close Combat, Ice Punch, and Payback for solid hard-hitting coverage. Force Palm on the switch or stalling mons to potentially turn the table.

Hariyama has been pulling its weight, impressing me with its defensive capabilities. However, at times the lack of ATK investment shows when it has trouble dispatching Swamperts, Forretresses and the like. If it wasn't for the extra Infernape protection, I may opt for a Breloom for the much-needed firepower.

Slaking (F) @ Choice Band
Truant - 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Return
- Sucker Punch

Star of the team. Not much to say, except that it is a double-edged sword that brings devastation to the opponent's team, but then provides a breathing room for the opponent to retaliate. Thus by necessity, Slaking teams tend to become defensive.

Tyranitar (M) @ Lum Berry
Sand Stream - 252 HP/56 Atk/24 Spd/176 SAtk
Quiet nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

Tyranitar has been consistently sniping Rotom-H. Lum provides Wisp protection. While Rotom-H attempts to burn Tyranitar, it OHKOs Rotom-H with a Dark Pulse + Pursuit. Although, Superpower would hit Heatran, opposing Tyranitars, and Blisseys for SE damage, I decided to go with Stone Edge for a solid STAB. The special defense boost is much appreciated, allowing Tyra to survive Starmie's special hits as well as providing another monster to take Heatran's Fire moves.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Natural Cure - 252 HP/116 Def/140 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave

Celebi is an essential core defense of this team, like Gyarados, providing me a 100% counter to Breloom that plagues Slaking Team. Unfortunately, Celebi is a magnet for Heatran and Infernape, which is why in this particular revision of the team I have incorporated Hariyama and Tyranitar that can survive hits from either one.

Initially it was a Bold >308 Defense celery, but I have decided to give it enough Speed to outrun LO Suicune and Specs Heatran, both monsters that can sweep this team if Slaking is out. This way at least Celebi can paralyze them and hinder their sweeping potential. As an added bonus of extra Speed investment was that Celebi can now revenge Adamant Lucario. The considerably low defense EVs means greater reliance of Gyarados' Intimidate to dampen blows from Gyarados, Machamp, Lucario, and Outrage Dragons.

So this is my Slaking Team. My biggest problem right now is stall. I used to have Breloom, which would use Toxic Spikes against the opponent with Posion Heal, and had Spore and colossal brute force to break walls (I specifically used Spore, Mach Punch, Stone-Edge, and Swords Dance @ LO). If you have suggestions to help me overcome the opposing team's defense so that Slaking could rip the team apart, I will love you.

 

[gaburu]

I think you have a cool concept going on.

You mentioned Gyrados becoming set-up fodder; I suggest swapping it for either Suicune or Vaporeon. Suicune has its advantages with being able to physically wall a little better, helping fight Salamences. Vaporeon's selling points include being able give a water immunity and wish passing to keep your Slaking/Haryama core alive. Either choice would be more benficial than Gyra imo.

Seeing as Slaking usually force switches, you might want to think about more entry hazards (maybe Skarmory or Foretress somewhere?). That's an interesting Tyranitar set; how about swapping one of it's moves for substitute? You mentioned having to use a combo of pursuit and dark pulse to kill, meaning you do eventually get burned. Why bother andrather get a chance to setup and protect yourself? Just a thought.

I hope that helps.

 

[kd24]

i definitely agree with vaporeon over gyarados, mostly because that wish passing to slaking will really help out, but if you don't want to change gyarados because he is a core member, then i would suggest adding roar and taunt over rest and sleep talk, just forcing more switches, and then switching hariyama to force palm/rest/sleep talk/payback but with thick fat. hariyama can be an excellent counter to infernape, heatran, etc that we don't want it to die. meanwhile vaporeon or roar gyarados can stop crocune from setting up at the wrong time for you, as well as forcing out set up sweepers who make your life hell.

i also have to agree with just making tyranitar a subtar, even though its not common in dppt, it still can be a viable threat and force the opponent to bring in their likely biggest threats to take you out, which you can then hit hard and then weaker further to help slaking sweep.

good luck with the team man

 

[Pocket]

Threat List

Here is a threat list to better understand the mechanics and problems of my team. As you can see my main concern is primarily Heatran and stall.

Threats List, stolen from Smith, taken the top 50 threats from june stats
Black means handled well.
Orange means it can be trouble.
Red means it will always get a kill; big problem.

- Bulky Gyarados and Hariyama can absorb U-turns. Scizor switches into Celebi often, so HP Fire could knock it out after residual damage.
Scizor with Swords Dance is a bit problematic, but Gyarados' Intimidate can weaken its moves for Slaking, Celebi, or Hariyama to finish off.

Gyarados is the best counter for it, and usually have no problem taking non-boosted hits. However SpecsTran can 2HKO with SR up, which is extremely dangerous. Tyranitar is the next best switch-in, but with no lefties and inaccurate Stone Edge to damage Heatran, it can get risky. Hariyama can also survive non-boosted Fire Blasts and retaliate with Close Combat, but Specs Fire Blast is a different story. Celebi being a Heatran magnet is a huge problem. I try to alleviate this by investing speed on Celebi so that it can at least paralyze Heatran so its counters could come in more safely

Pivot from Metagross -> Gyarados -> Avalanche usually works. When Celebi had more defense, it could have survived a hit to paralyze the dragon, but I am not so sure now. Hariyama can most likely survive a hit to throw an Ice Punch. Slaking can revenge kill with Return / Sucker Punch

Hariyama walls it. Metagross is there to revenge-kill. With enough health, Slaking can take a hit and OHKO with EQ

With less defense, Celebi is not a fail-safe counter against Gyarados anymore. I can toggle between Gyarados and Celebi to negate DD boosts so that Celebi can comfortably survive its hits and T-Wave / Grass Knot. Metagross' can revenge-kill Adamant Gyarados with T-Punch, which is sweetness. Slaking can Return / Sucker Punch.

Metagross ideally Meteor Mashes / Pursuits Gengar to death. Gyarados can survive non-Tbolt assaults, although it may be left majorly crippled. Hariyama with above 60% health can survive a LO Shadow Ball and Payback.

Gyarados has little problem against Iron Head / T-Wave variants. Slaking or Metagross are good switch-ins for choiced Jirachi. As far as CM Jirachi goes, Psychic Jirachi would most likely fall prey to Tyranitar.
Flash Cannon variant is difficult, and may require Metagross Meteor Mashing until it dies and then have Slaking finish off with EQ / Sucker Punch.

If it is LO Starmie, I let Celebi sponge H-Pump, then switch to Metagross on an Ice Beam and kill with T-Punch (does ~80%). Tyranitar can also Dark Pulse / Pursuit less offensive variants.

Bulky Gyarados. Hariyama is a secondary, and admittedly less reliable, counter to Infernape if Gyarados falls.

Usually I go to Celebi and T-Wave it. Depending on Celebi's health, I will proceed to HP Fire or go to Gyarados and hope for paraflinch :x. If I expect a T-Punch I can switch to Slaking and EQ. If I expect Explosion, Metagross / Tyranitar can take it.

Gyarados and Celebi walls it all day.

Usually I simply switch to Celebi and paralyze it before switching out to something more threatening. Gyarados can stall with Rest; Hariyama can also switch into a Wish or Aromatherapy. Tyranitar can threaten with Stone Edge, and Lum provides status protection.

Gyarados and Celebi walls it pretty well. Since Celebi lost considerable defense EVs, it has a harder time sponging Paybacks. Slaking can switch into a Payback and OHKO with Return.

Gyarados counters. Adamant Lucario is revenged by Celebi or Slaking. Jolly Lucario with Crunch is problem after Gyarados is gone.

Tyranitar deals with Rotom virtually 100% of the time.

Usually I switch into Tyranitar and Pursuit on a U-turn.

Gyarados takes the Spore, Celebi walls.

Hariyama and Gyarados are best bet with their Ice moves and decent defenses.

Gyarados and Hariyama are good switch-ins against U-turns. They can both survive a hit and bring it down with their Ice moves. If Flygon switches into Celebi's T-Wave, I usually let Celebi take the U-turn and either Recover off the damage or T-Wave the incoming Pokemon. Slaking can revenge with Sucker Punch; Metagross can come in on an Outrage and Meteor Mash.

A nuisance that can switch into many of the weak or resisted hits. My only best offense is Tyranitar's Fire Blast and hitting it hard on the switch with Slaking's Fire Punch. Entry hazards are awful for my grounded team, so Skarmory is a defensive threat

Usually Celebi simply paralyze it and Grass Knots. Tyranitar and Hariyama can wear it down on the switch with Stone-Edge and Close Combat, respectively. Metagross can T-Punch for even better damage.

Celebi takes STAB moves while Tyranitar can take Shadow Balls.

Celebi will come in on a CM and paralyze and Grass Knot Suicune. Slaking can then hopefully finish it off.

I am unprepared for the rising usage of bulky DD-Roost-Safeguard / Heal Bell Dragonite. However, I think I am fully equipped in dealing with the mono-attack Dragonite in the form of Choice Scarf Metagross. Mixed Attackers are usually dealt in the same fashion as Mixmence: Metagross -> Gyarados -> Avalanche. Celebi can also come in and T-Wave after a special attack drop. Slaking can revenge. Hariyama has good defense to take a hit and retaliate with Ice Punch.

Paralyze celery with my Celebi before switching into Tyranitar or Metagross to dish heavy damage.

Celebi usually paralyzes it before I switch into Tyranitar, Hariyama, or Slaking on a non-STAB Attack.

Again, Celebi on STAB-attacks, maybe go for a T-Wave, then pivot to Tyranitar or Slaking for a lethal blow.

I can pull out my Gyarados - Celebi toggle to negate its DD, but that doesn't ultimately solve much. With less defense EVs, I am not confident that Celebi can withstand a boosted Outrage, but with Intimidate, it just might to Grass Knot / T-Wave. Slaking usually finishes Kingdra off.

Haven't really seen one really, thus haven't really prepared much for it. Tyranitar has Lum Berry and Stone Edge, so it may be able to deal with defensive Togekiss. Metagross can switch into an Air Slash and potentially threaten with Thunderpunch. Slaking can also switch into an Air Slash or Roost and hopefully OHKO with Return.

non-EQ variants can be pummeled by Metagross or Tyranitar. Gyarados can absorb any status and whittle down its HP. Same goes for Celebi. Gyarados and Celebi must be wary for Trick and Explosion.

Another annoying entry hazard set-upper. Although its 4x weakness to Fire and no recovery moves make it less likely to wall Slaking and easier to whittle it down. Still, the threat of Rapid Spin and entry hazards can be game. Usually I switch into Tyranitar to quickly terrorize with Fire Blast, although I prefer not to give away Tyranitar's secret so early in the match.

Meteor Mash on Aerodactyl's SR, switch to Celebi on an EQ, and then dispatch it.

Celebi can take STAB hits, Hariyama can then switch into Flamethrower / Ice Punch / HP Ice and retaliate with Force Palm or Close Combat.

I will most likely go to Celebi and allow it to get the petaya boost while breaking its final substitute. I would let something die or switch Slaking into an Ice Beam. Slaking can then Sucker Punch / Return.

Gyarados, Hariyama, and Metagross

Celebi can paralyze and Grass Knot for good damage; no T-Punch means Gyarados could come in and stall and para-flinch; Tyranitar can Dark Pulse without worrying about being Wisped.

Gyarados can Intimidate and break subs; Hariyama can Ice Punch subs and Force Palm on the Baton Pass for a potential paralysis; Slaking can revenge.

Gyarados and Celebi should be enough to deal with Mamoswine. Metagross can switch into an Ice Shard or Ice Fang and Meteor Mash. Slaking can take an Ice Shard and knock it out.

Gyarados and Celebi. Otherwise I am screwed. Not as threatening as Skarmory or Forretress in terms of entry hazards, but the fact that it can outstall Slaking makes it a significant threat. I think I have it well-covered, though.

First go to Celebi and paralyze. Then Gyarados may switch-in to Intimidate, and then maybe back to Celebi and Grass Knot. If no EQ or Fire Punch, Metagross can pummel with Meteor Mash and Tyranitar can fire away Stone Edges. Hariyama Close Combats.

Another major nuisance with its Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes. Gyarados and Hariyama can provide unexpected opportunities for Tentacruel to drop in. Celebi can paralyze on the switch. Metagross and Slaking can scare it away or take it down.

I may most likely Meteor Mash to break any sashes, and hope for a Sleep Powder miss. I will then bring in Slaking as an attempt to halt its set-up.

I will most likely let Gyarados take the Spore, and bring in Tyranitar for a quick kill.

Metagross and Slaking. If it switches into Celebi, Celebi should be able to survive an attack to T-Wave.

Gyarados on Close Combats / Megahorns, Metagross, Slaking, or Celebi can switch into a Stone-Edge and threaten with Meteor Mash, Return, or HP Fire / T-Wave.

Celebi will paralyze it first. Tyranitar can Dark Pulse for good damage. Metagross can pummel with Meteor Mashes. Gyarados can attempt a para-flinch. Slaking can finish off a weakened Cresselia.

 

[Karrot]

Hey Pocket! It's been a while since I've actually talked to you! :] I recently began a run at Pokemon again, with summer in session and all. During this time, I came upon your team, and decided to give it a run for a few days to get a better idea of it (and also because I thought it was quite a nice team), and I'll just say I enjoyed this team immensely and it was fun to use. However, since I am here to rate, I'll comment on some of the problems you already mentioned:
- As you've stated, this team has serious problems combating any type of stall strategy. A strong defensive core with a steel type, particularly Skarmory, forces you to make tough predicting choices that may favor your opponent more so then yourself.
- Your own defensive core is very powerful, yet it makes it fairly easy for some key pokes to cause major problems. This is the biggest problem I see with this team. Heatran is the most problematic, as stated, but fast Life Orbed special sweepers such as Starmie and Zapdos can switch in fairly easily and wreck havoc if they are not disposed of quickly or if their switch-ins have already been damaged from previous exchanges. The best defense against this, I guess, is just to be careful and to scout teams.

A slightly more offensive edge will help against your main problems.

To combat stall, I think there's some saving grace in using the Vaporeon that previous users have mentioned. The standard does well here, and can even utilize Roar to great success for scouting mons and finding out how to get Slaking in (which is of course the key to this team's success). Gyarados with Thunder Wave + Roar/Dragon Dance/Sleep Talk could also be considered, giving the opponent less opportunity for turning it into set-up fodder. Paraflinch works wonders.

Although this may seem quite out there, Life Orb Celebi can work wonders if you allow it a place on your team. Leafstorm/Earth Power/Recover/HP: Fire creams everything but Blissey, which makes for excellent mind games against Blissey with Slaking.

I like Hariyama. It makes an excellent last ditch effort against 'Mence and it does a great job at walling the ever-present Tyranitar. Close Combat/Force Palm makes it a bitch to switch in against, which makes it all the more amusing to use. If anything, though, I would experiment with other fighting types such as Machamp, Breloom, and Heracross before you decide to stick with it for sure. Machamp gets a huge edge with paralysis support coming from Gyarados, whom paralyzes a lot of Machamp's switch-ins. Dynamic Punch wrecks havoc afterwords. Breloom provides the clinch Spore but draws in more Dragon-type switch-ins, which is very problematic for your team and a lot of teams in general. Scarf Heracross can Pursuit Gengar, though not as effectively as Metagross. However, it does open up the Metagross slot for another Pokemon whilst covering the fighting Pokemon slot.

Rapid Spin. I'm not sure how you could possibly make room for it on your team (unless you are going to try Heracross), but of course it is very useful with ghost types gone and an open field to play with. Donphan is the first thing that comes to mind if you decide to switch out Metagross, but this does leave your team missing the essential steel type.

Scizor over Metagross also provides in interesting alternative for a Pursuiter, though you lose your Stealth Rocks this way. You could also forgo a fighting-type completely and experiment with the Metagross/Hariyama slots. I dunno, you might find a nice combination.

Nice team, once again, innovative approach, and wonderful choices in Pokemon!

 

[Pocket]

Thank you for the awesome rate as usual, Karrot! I need to inform you that I made a significant change: Scarf Heatran. I really needed revenge-killer for Lucario and Infernape, and it is still a decent check against Gengar, which is less problematic than Rotom-A. I gave it HP Electric and SR to preserve Metagross' role of revenge-killing Gyarados, Starmie and setting up SR. In addition, it prevents opposing Heatran from spamming Fire Blasts, easing Gyarados' sponging duties.

Again, thanks for your thoughtful comments! Is Vaporeon really a good replacement for Gyarados? I feel like I really need that Fighting resist to deal with Infernapes, Machamps, and Lucario that Celebi alone cannot handle. I may take your advice and add T-Wave on Gyarados to keep the offensive pace; I still need Sleep Talk for absorbing sleep. RestTalk really improved its sponging capabilities, however, so it is a bargain.

Hmm, I am rather hesitant in losing Celebi's durability and paralysis support for the improved coverage and power, but I may give it a try. Earth Power would definitely be a great tool against the switch-happy Infernape, Heatran, and Lucario.

For Hariyama, I am currently testing Bulk Up > Force Palm, since this way it can be more of an offensive threat. It has been working relatively well. It provides an awesome coverage against Tyranitar, which is more problematic now that I replaced Metagross with Heatran, so it may be here to stay.

Nice hearing from you again, Karrot :]

 

[cayr]

just one thing don't boost slacking speed trust me waste that in hp; is already way too slow, you'll be outspeeding just one and other random wall

 

[Pocket]

Umm, Slaking has freaken 100 base Speed. It outruns a LOT of monsters with speed investment.