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Resource SM OU Sets Viability Rankings

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Pheromosa:
- Moved Choice Scarf to A+. As some have mentioned it's a very good set, but by far not its most dominating set in existence. Quiver Dance and Choice Specs do wonders, and Special Life Orb does a literal fuckton to a lot of teams that lack Toxapex. A+ still represents Choice Scarf Pheromosa is a big threat, but it is a little more dependent on matchups in comparison to its other sets.

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Landorus-T:
- Swapped Offensive and Double Dance around. Somewhat LL-relic but might've been laziness on my part. Though Double Dance is incredibly frightening, Z Move with Stealth Rock is definitely one of its biggest selling appeals (Continental Crush especially).

I also am making one minor edit: Adding Focus Sash.

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Gengar:
- Swapped sets around. All-Out Attacker is listed first, then Choice Specs, then Scarf, and finally Offensive Utility. Offensive Utility might be worthy of A since it can sort of do what All-Out Attacker does in a hybrid format of being annoying.

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Zygarde:
- Added Choice Band. Tentatively in A- at the moment over Dragon Dance.

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Terrakion:
- Renamed Swords Dance + Stealth Rock to "Offensive Stealth Rock".

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Tornadus-T:
- Dropped Assault Vest to another tier since Life Orb should really be the set to use with Tornadus-T

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Dragonite:
- Moved Electrium Z over Flyinium Z. Electrium Z is a bit easier for Dragonite to use and gives it a good niche over Salamence and Gyarados in Z Move department.

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Crawdaunt:
- Fixed his sprite in 2017.

Kommo-o and Bewear:
- Axed
Ema Skye said:
What is a set for Scarf Greninja?

It seems kind of interesting (it outspeeds +2 Adamant Lando) and I want to try it out.
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Gunk Shot / Ice Beam / U-turn / Rock Slide is usually the set. You can customize the moves a little more to the liking, but those moves are best with it on this kind of set.

Feel free to continue discussion moveset recommendations to move up and down!
 
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Colonel M said:
Update

795.png
Pheromosa:
- Moved Choice Scarf to A+. As some have mentioned it's a very good set, but by far not its most dominating set in existence. Quiver Dance and Choice Specs do wonders, and Special Life Orb does a literal fuckton to a lot of teams that lack Toxapex. A+ still represents Choice Scarf Pheromosa is a big threat, but it is a little more dependent on matchups in comparison to its other sets.

645-s.png
Landorus-T:
- Swapped Offensive and Double Dance around. Somewhat LL-relic but might've been laziness on my part. Though Double Dance is incredibly frightening, Z Move with Stealth Rock is definitely one of its biggest selling appeals (Continental Crush especially).

I also am making one minor edit: Adding Focus Sash.

094.png
Gengar:
- Swapped sets around. All-Out Attacker is listed first, then Choice Specs, then Scarf, and finally Offensive Utility. Offensive Utility might be worthy of A since it can sort of do what All-Out Attacker does in a hybrid format of being annoying.

718.png
Zygarde:
- Added Choice Band. Tentatively in A- at the moment over Dragon Dance.

639.png
Terrakion:
- Renamed Swords Dance + Stealth Rock to "Offensive Stealth Rock".

641-s.png
Tornadus-T:
- Dropped Assault Vest to another tier since Life Orb should really be the set to use with Tornadus-T

149.png
Dragonite:
- Moved Electrium Z over Flyinium Z. Electrium Z is a bit easier for Dragonite to use and gives it a good niche over Salamence and Gyarados in Z Move department.

342.png
Crawdaunt:
- Fixed his sprite in 2017.

Kommo-o and Bewear:
- Axed

Gunk Shot / Ice Beam / U-turn / Rock Slide is usually the set. You can customize the moves a little more to the liking, but those moves are best with it on this kind of set.

Feel free to continue discussion moveset recommendations to move up and down!
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Shaodw sneak on protean Greninja is a good physical priority move. Plus, it helps it survive U-turn from Pheromosa and High JumpKick. That is my opinion though.
 
assault vest tornadus-t should be b+ along with life orb. it's way better right now. gengar is dumb and tornadus-t is a great switch in. keldeo is rising. it can beat some pheromosa sets and most if you predict correctly. it's hard for balance teams to stop because of its bulk and how knock off is so good right now in a metagame with gay mons like celesteela, toxapex, greninja (tank and knock / kill), tapu fini,...it can get pretty wild and i can argue it has more use in this metagame than it did last generation. i like this thing a lot so maybe i'm biased but this seems fair. life orb is definitely very good but assault vest is there with it.
ash greninja
- i'd remove grassium z. this set is honestly really shitty because all you do is kill tapu fini but then ash greninja is not as threatening even after transformation because its move are piss weak and hit like a regular greninja lol. to give you an example, water shuriken can't ohko pheromosa. stick to splash plate taunt or classice choice specs. i'd rather use subzero slammer in this metagame as well so if you want to keep it, i would rename it to "z-move"

zygarde
- make all zygarde sets a+, including dragon dance. we have seen the power of the njnp special plus z-move and classic subdd can get out of hand.

dugtrio
- choice scarf to solid a imo.

keldeo
- this moved up so ye. i think z-move could go to c+ just because it is expected when you cm now and its not as consistent as scarf and specs

scizor
- offensive swords dance should be unranked lol. it's bad.

gengar
- why is aoa gengar higher than utility attacker. it should be reversed if anything. taunt is way too good to pass up.

magearna
- its choice specs isn't used as much but that doesn't make it a subrank lower. usage doesn't equal viability and i've seen it put in a ton of work in ost and circuit. it's literally impossible to switch into.

volcarona
- the more questionable nomination but i love bulky quiver dance. raise to a-?

magnezone
- choice specs, utility, and assault vest sets (don't forget to add this) should all be a-. remove choice scarf since it's ass.

tapu fini
- i been saying this since day 1. cm tapu fini is the shit. move it to a- because ya'll needed spl proof. first leftiez but that was a small sample size. now look at the kratosmana game and ost matches.

latios
- choice scarf being the lowest set makes me cringe when it's it clearly the best set.

porygon-z
- ghost z should be b- since i think elec is better in this meta with less waks and more celesteela and toxapex (ban both of these mons).

nihilego
- i'd remove lead. i'd rather slap stealth rock on choice scarf or choice specs despite how trash that sounds.

breloom
- rockium z breloom, a set that was made for the sake of using zmoves. it has very few applications and it should be used. spore is miles better and rockium z is really only for zapdos (which can run speed and "dies" to spore) and venusaur/amoonguss. tangrowth was never a switch in anyways because of focus punch.

pelipper
- add a yung choice specs set

crawdaunt
- wtf is this waterium z set. stop using zmoves for the sake of using them.

dragonite
- classic dd and band are not viable

smeargle
- ah yes, baton pass smeargle the god!

volcanion
- bloom doom is ass

hydreigon
- where's muh scarf set, the best set, and possibly only set.

xurkitree
- only zhypnosis

azumarill
- i think band and bd are on the same level
 
Why is Choice Band Hoopa 1 subrank below Specs? I feel like in this meta with stuff like Tapu Fini (the Tapus in general) and Magearna running around (Gunk Shot and Fire Punch respectively) the Band set has some uses that put it in par with the Specs while also not having to worry about Pursuit trapping when spamming Hyperspace Fury. Lando-T being everywhere sucks after your opp scouts band but it's 2hkod by Hyperspace Fury after rocks if adamant anyways which opens up holes in your opponent's team. This isn't exactly a nom but I'm just wondering what arguments there are against Band and for Specs
 
The VR thread has been updated so this should show the changes that were made a couple days ago, such as Gren to A+ and Volcarona to A.

Tapu Lele's Taunt + 3 Attacks set should be listed since it saw a 27% usage in 1825 OU for February (http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-02/moveset/gen7ou-1825.txt) and is commonly ran elsewhere on the ladder.

LO Tornadus should probably be B+ (same rank as AV) because it's been fairly successful in SPL recently and is as hard to switch into as ever. AV's defensive utility is a big selling point, but LO's significant increase in offensive presence, such as being able to 2HKO Toxapex with Hurricane and dent Celesteela with Heat Wave, warrants it to rise to B+. AV and LO do different jobs but they do their respective jobs just as well as the other.

Edit: sorry guys, I should have been more patient. You've done a great job with this thread and I find it very helpful. There are some points I brought up for discussion otherwise. It might be worth mentioning in the OP to ask that people don't ask for updates to be made.
 
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Can we not make a post every time the VR has been updated to remind us to update? Considering Bludz and I co-host this and both of us are on VR council, I think we are well aware that the VR just got updated but sometimes we just don't have the time to jump on this immediately, especially when every time an update happens the sets have to be shifted around and that takes time to discuss between all three of us. The VR updated barely 2 days ago. I don't mean to sound like a dick, but it's just kind of rude lol.
 
Im okay if you want to make posts on sets but updating this takes time and I cant just drop everything and update it asap. As Gary mentioned both bludz and him are on VR council and they remind me if I forget to update.

Remain calm please @_@. Ill update it tomorrow.
 
Ema Skye said:
What is a set for Scarf Greninja?

It seems kind of interesting (it outspeeds +2 Adamant Lando) and I want to try it out.
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gunk shot / ice beam / rock slide / u - turn.

Some of those moves are somewhat flexible, I think those are the best four. The idea is to spam U-Turn and also revenge kill a lot of things. U-Turn can also bluff ash greninja pretty effectively. Rock slide is for Volcarona. Other options are HP fire, hydro pump, perhaps over gunk shot or ice beam, idk. It's kind of a cool set, but I think it is kind of niche and once the opponent knows what's going on it's not all that strong.

EDIT: I thought I was bluffing ash-greninja, I'm just stupid. thanks readytolose

Calm mind Normalium Z Keldeo in B- seems really harsh. It is a known lure now, but that doesn't mean it doesn't do what it has to, I think that belongs more in B or B+.

Physically defensive tangrowth is nowhere near as good as AV. It basically helps vs Metagross, wearing it down. It completely loses all of its special walling capabilities without AV and max SpD, and it doesn't gain that much in return. I honestly think B+ is the place for it, it's a decent Metagross switch in and better Chomp switch in but I feel like that is pretty much the only reason to run it, it does much better as a specially based wall right now. Volcarona is in A now, so it should move up, I think defensive quiver dance still belongs in B+, but offensive quiver dance definitely belongs in A.

Scizor is really only in A for defog - I think that the other sets (pursuit, bulky SD) belong in A-. They are really easy to stop, and if a hard counter is on the enemy team all Scizor is really going to do is wall Metagross..
 
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asterat said:
Scizor is really only in A for defog - I think that the other sets (pursuit, bulky SD) belong in A-. They are really easy to stop, and if a hard counter is on the enemy team all Scizor is really going to do is wall Metagross..
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Nah Bulky SD is still solid enough for A alongside Defog, they both work well depending on what team you are going to use it on. Pursuit should definitely drop though.
 
Ema Skye said:
What is a set for Scarf Greninja?

It seems kind of interesting (it outspeeds +2 Adamant Lando) and I want to try it out.
Click to expand...

greninja.gif

Greninja (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dark Pulse / Hydro Pump
- Gunk Shot / Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

It's highly customizable, but typically you're going to be running Ice Beam for Mence/Zyg/Chomp and U-turn.
 
My Set For Greninja
Greninja (M) @ Grassium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Grass Knot
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse

This set allows it to beat the Tapu Fini that normally comes in on gren. After rocks the standard OU defensive set is OHKO'd by Bloom Doom. It is also a great surprise to catch things off guard such as rotom-wash, other greninjas, and the uncommon azumarill

Tell me what you think of the set
 
exasperation123 said:
My Set For Greninja
Greninja (M) @ Grassium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Grass Knot
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse

This set allows it to beat the Tapu Fini that normally comes in on gren. After rocks the standard OU defensive set is OHKO'd by Bloom Doom. It is also a great surprise to catch things off guard such as rotom-wash, other greninjas, and the uncommon azumarill

Tell me what you think of the set
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Tapu fini is a counter to a-gren, every protean gren have gunk shot in its moveset
I think that necrozma main set(if not The only viable) is SR + TR, and maybe xukitree set could reflect his actual niche(somethig like TG BP abuser) just and idea, i guess you can use xukitree outside BP with heavy support.
 
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Kutscher said:
Add agility + electrium-z do zapdos pls
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Zapdos is basically always outclassed by other electrics in an offensive role. Thundurus-T is pulls off Agility + Electrium-Z better due to better special attack and access to Nasty Plot as well as other coverage moves. Thund-T is a niche mon in it's own right so i don't think there is any reason to add this set to Zapdos.
 
It was posted on the underated and creative sets thread, the biggest things it have over thundy is the coverage(eletric/ice/fire>eltric/focus miss/ice or just eltric/ice) the bulk and the unpredictability, every time a thundy appears everybody is sure that it's going to set-up and then they will try to kill it, zapdos is expected to be a defoger or defensive 3attacks and even if they attack,zap have enogh bulk to survive a hit(and may even punish if your using static) heat wave and gigavolt havoc somewhat is better than the extra special attack
LorisMasta17 said:
Zapdos is basically always outclassed by other electrics in an offensive role. Thundurus-T is pulls off Agility + Electrium-Z better due to better special attack and access to Nasty Plot as well as other coverage moves. Thund-T is a niche mon in it's own right so i don't think there is any reason to add this set to Zapdos.
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Kutscher said:
It was posted on the underated and creative sets thread, the biggest things it have over thundy is the coverage(eletric/ice/fire>eltric/focus miss/ice or just eltric/ice) the bulk and the unpredictability, every time a thundy appears everybody is sure that it's going to set-up and then they will try to kill it, zapdos is expected to be a defoger or defensive 3attacks and even if they attack,zap have enogh bulk to survive a hit(and may even punish if your using static) heat wave and gigavolt havoc somewhat is better than the extra special attack
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1. The person who posted it said themselves it's not really that good of a set.
2. Unpredictability doesn't make something good/worth putting on this thread. I can come up with a ton of non standard sets, and have them work, but they are only really that good because they are surprises. If it is posted as a viable set here it also loses some surprise factor and it isn't as effective.
3. Electric/Fighting/Ice is definitely on par with Electric/Fire/Ice if you decide not to use double dance Thundy, although it doesn't hit Magearna as hard, but that still takes a good chunk from the Z move so it isn't that big of an issue. You can also take down stuff like Heatran and Ttar easier.
4. After the Z-move is used, Zapdos is quite weak as it has no way to boost it's special attack stat and it is left with 125 spa with no boosting item. Thundurus has Nasty Plot, which is the main reason to use it over Zapdos. Nasty Plot makes it so it isn't dead weight against things it can't kill after an agility, which Zapdos has no way of doing. +2 Gigavolt Havoc off of base 145 special attack gets a ton of ohkos on stuff, including AV Magearna, deals66-78% to Ferrothorn, and also deals over 50% to Chansey, all with a timid nature. Modest Zapdos is actually still slightly weaker than timid Thund-T.
 
Yeah Electrium Zapdos is not getting added. It is essentially a bulkier Thundurus-T with more reliable coverage but significantly less power, no offensive boosting move, less useful ability than Volt Absorb, and that 1 extra point in Speed is actually very significant for Thundy because it gets the jump on all base 100s which are pretty popular in the current metagame. It's a gimmicky set that finds success because of its surprise value for the most part, and you're better off just using DD Thundurus-T or 3 attacks Zapdos with Roost.
 
By the way expect an update Monday. I wanted to wait post Phero ban since some things have changed both in rankings and in movesets. Will be discussing with bludz wnd Gary soon.
 
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In my opinion, Offensive Mega Venusaur deserves to be dropped from A- to B+. It simply does not have the longevity that Defensive Mega Venusaur does. Sure, you can hit switch-ins harder (i.e. Mega Metagross), but it loses the ability to reliably check many of the things that Defensive Mega Venusaur does. I simply don't think the power rise is worth the drop in bulk. Also, I've laddered extensively with both, and anecdotally, defensive is much more usable and forgiving than offensive.
 
Pursuit Scizor -> A

This thing controls momentum in ways no other pokemon can. It has a relatively neutral matchup against both S tier pokemon (though Defensive Landorus at high HP gives problems).

It checks and traps Lele (locked out of or lacking HP fire), keeps both forms of Greninja from switching in with U-Turn, and it can wall Mawile-Mega that lacks Fire Fang. Of course, these are all things the other Scizor sets can do, but I kinda feel like the applications of Pursuit don't really need explaining. Technician boosted STAB Priority + STAB Pivot + Pursuit + Reliable Recovery one one Pokemon is insane.

I have some replays, but they're from before Phero got banned. Are those still okay?

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-545271862
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-545277093
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-545385411
 
Some sets to add/move :

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Add a Stallbreaker set and put it A- (I guess) because it's avtually a really good set which has got some usage in SPL like here http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-241051 and here http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-250548 and has been pretty effective. Aim has also done a live with Flaming Victini's team which features this set and shows its effectiveness
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Rename the "Offensive Quiver Dance" set "Firium Z Quiver Dance" and add a "Psychium Z Quiver Dance" set in A rank because those two sets are different. Psychium Z Volcarona is a good lure to Toxapex and also beats Zygarde, Landorus-T and Garchomp (on the switch) with Shattered Psyche or HP Ice.

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Add an Assault Vest set and put it in A- Rank because it's actually one of the best Magnezone's set able to wall threats like Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele. I also think the Utility set should be moved down to B+ Rank because it's not that good and rarely does its job in taking a Fighting move and hitting/Thunder Waving the opponent since Fighting Types and Fighting coverages aren't really common in the actual meta.

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Add a Roost + 3 Attacks set and put it in A- Rank (because it is its actual rank) because it's a good set able to really annoy the opponent thanks to its Electric-Ice-Fire coverage and also Static/Discharge paralysis. It has also got usage in SPL and has been prety effective. The Defog set should also be A- rank.

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Add a Flyinium Z set and put it in B Rank because it's a really good set which has also got tournament usage like here http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-259782 and has been pretty effective. The Flying Z-Move is its strongest stab, able to beat Grass Types or just hit the opponent harder.

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I think the Choice Specs set should be moved down to A- or even B+ because it's not seen that much and the Choice Scarf set is prefered since the Specs set is still walled by common menaces like Toxapex and Tangrowth and being able to RK dangerous threats is often prefered.

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Maybe add a Tail Glow + Rest set and put it in B or B- Rank because it's actually a viable option able to take on some threats and set-up on them and then heal up and potentially sweep.

Thanks.
 
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