CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 3

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I'm not after an over the top pokemon, that's not what this thing should be about, I've given a pokemon that has both a balanced moveset and if swayed in the right way can be a force.

I also think it'll be quirky to have 513 as a Base spread due to the number 13, aswell as the 13 in his Sp. Atk which makes him quite a potent special attacker giving him some nice stab options.

Fishin - Yes, I know balanced pokemon make things much more stall orientated but after Syclant, we need something more balanced. What's wrong with a good Anti-Spinner, who's to say new spinners won't come into next gen that can completly wipe the floor with this one? I reckon we need to make something Fighting hasn't done before, with this unique typing it's the perfect thing to do so
 
Alright, having compiled my thoughts, here's what I need to say.
There is nothing abnormal about making a strong pokemon with an exploitable and obvious weakness. In fact, that is what drives our game.

Cases:
Salamence: Amazing attacker on both sides, dies to Ice Beam from nearly anything.
Gyarados: Amazing DDancer and tank, dies to Tbolt from a lot of things.
Blissey: Best special wall, can't stand physical Fighting hits.
Weavile: Amazing SDancer and attacker, dies to Fighting and hits in general.
T-Tar: Uber stats with sandstorm, amazing ability, attacks on both sides, slow and dies to Fighting.
Gengar: Master of 1000 movesets and special attacking, dies to Pursuit/Sucker Punch hard.
Syclant: Great mix attacker, dies to SR and Rock/Fire. (I liked this guy a lot.)
Skarmory: Best physical wall other than Gliscor, dies to trapping and Fire/Electric.
...so on and so forth.


I'm very much against making something that pretty much doesn't get OHKO'd by anything and is free to make himself a nuisance with arguably one of the best attacking type combos in the game.
If you want to make him defensive, nerf him like Cresselia: All the defense in the world with no attack to do.
What I don't want to see is a 100/100/100/100/100/100 or slightly below (because we've never let a base 600 into OU before because that would be broken stats >_> ) with no 4x weak or bad attacking options. It would be a precedent.

The end result of a pokemon that doesn't fulfill my bolded statement is one that only serves to stagnate the metagame, not move it along.
 
Ok, Taking you're point into account, I would have to state that my response to Syclant will get us nowhere. However making pokemon such as him would be detrimental as people would focus on stopping him.

This pokemon is like you're average pokemon, Yes he has a nice attacking type, but just because we have nice attacking type do we have to make him all the more offensive?

As in defenses I believe he could be easily ko'ed by Dugtrio, Trapinch, Gengar, Ursaring. OHKO is entirely probable, unfortunately, I would need X-Acts calc to check this. However in comparison are 2 other similar pokemon and "pogey". As stated by Syberia below, I will make mention of one pokemon who will counter and rape these stats everytime - Staraptor.

85/90/95 - Porygon 2 - 1 weakness fighting
75/100/90 - He who shall not be named - 3 Weakness Ghost, Psychic and Flying
85/100/83 - Ferligator - 2 Weakness Elec and Grass

You're telling me he cannot easily be stopped?
 
Anything with a strong physical flying move should be able to threaten him enough to make him go away.
 
i'd be all for giving him lower sdef (65~) so that random shit like surf / grass knot / flamethwoer do 40~ and enough def to shrug off stone edge (90~)
 
Syberia said:
Anything with a strong physical flying move should be able to threaten him enough to make him go away.
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In practice that's pretty much all of Skarmory and random AA Gliscors. Less common, but still possible would be Drill Pecking Empoleons and AA technician Scyther/Scizor, and Zapdos (although Zapdos doesn't usually carry drill peck).
 
Another idea:
If we make him a pole based fighter, we could allow him to equip a Stick to increase his critical hit ratio, and make him a crit based fighter.
 
85/90/95 - Porygon 2 - 1 weakness fighting
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Yes, but does he scare people with his massive attacking prowess? He is weak like Cress is weak, the ability to simply be ineffective. Also, those defenses are hilariously bad when compared to the premier walls such as Blissey, Hippo, Cress, and others. That may have passed in 2nd/3rd gen, not so much anymore.

85/100/83 - Ferligator - 2 Weakness Elec and Grass
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Right, and people use him all the time. Oh wait, it's because he is more often than not a worse Gyarados or is just walled by whatever bulky water the opponent happens to have.

75/100/90 - He who shall not be named - 3 Weakness Ghost, Psychic and Flying
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Then why not 75/40/150? This isn't old gen anymore, pretty much anything with less than 100/100 defenses and a reliable recovery move (or amazing typing such as this) simply cannot wall. They are just an inefficient attacker in most regards.



We have this great opportunity to stir the pot and instead we keep dulling it down with these "beautifully balanced fighters." Where's our new Blisseys with two 10 base stats, our new Trapinches with 5 base speed, new Alakazams and Weaviles with paper defenses. We can't be so arrogant as to think we're not harming the game by introducing complete anomalies in the form of "balanced fighters."

Give it a strength (a mighty strength, a niche, a trick) and give it a weakness (a mighty weakness, Heracross v. Flying, 'Dos v. Electric, Dragons v. Ice) and force the game to move along.
 
I'd prefer a Gallade balanced to a Kingdra balanced stats. Things with a multiple immunities or a large variety of resistances generally don't get a BST above 520 (Skarmory, Bronzong, Spiritomb, Gengar).

This thing should be able to take out itself relatively easily regardless just to ensure that it doesn't stall out against itself.
 
Pneuma said:
Then why not 75/40/150? This isn't old gen anymore, pretty much anything with less than 100/100 defenses and a reliable recovery move (or amazing typing such as this) simply cannot wall. They are just an inefficient attacker in most regards.

We have this great opportunity to stir the pot and instead we keep dulling it down with these "beautifully balanced fighters." Where's our new Blisseys with two 10 base stats, our new Trapinches with 5 base speed, new Alakazams and Weaviles with paper defenses. We can't be so arrogant as to think we're not harming the game by introducing complete anomalies in the form of "balanced fighters."

Give it a strength (a mighty strength, a niche, a trick) and give it a weakness (a mighty weakness, Heracross v. Flying, 'Dos v. Electric, Dragons v. Ice) and force the game to move along.
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Firstly, I used Porygon and Ferligator as examples to prove they are not a hugely defensive wall, and thus BALANCED, They're defensive spreads are similar to "pogey" and thus it is obvious that he can be easily taken down.
Why not 40/150? My spread was for a balanced poke, having a poke with that spread does not make it balanced, My spread, however does with a Slight, A slight lean on defense.

I also suggested that he has insomnia/vital spirit so that he cannot use Rest, and by doing so, loses a staple recovery move (it's not like he can roost, and Slack Off wouldn't suit him) However I could see how Moonlight might work on him. His Stats give him the ability to stat up whether it be by BU or CM, that is unsure for the now. Also his typings allow him to all things for Neutral damage, that is a quite impressive feat. none the less, and by not overpowering his attack would not cause a shift in the metagame.

Don't you think we stirred the pot with Syclant? What's wrong with having a Smogon poke that floats around in BL/UU? Why must we always try to attain new and exciting things, with pokemon with low bases in one stat.
I know we'll make a poke with this spread 120/120/120/3/115/122 that'll really stir up the metagame, let's make it pure Ice/Elec giving it Boltbeam, aswell as CC?

As I stated before we have already put on a poke that I quite frankly think is overkill, I do not think we should be so arrogant and think we should shift the metagame, We've already moved the game with Syclant, let's just sift a couple of pokemon in there who could fit well into roles that the Metagame still lacks.

Many things can be done w/ moveset and ability with balanced stats. What's so wrong in suggesting it this way?
 
Don't you think we stirred the pot with Syclant?
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Do you think we should ever stop? I despise mediocrity.
The point I've made all along is that balanced doesn't mean 100 stats across the board (or 80 stats across the board), it means that it has a viable strength and weakness.

As I stated before we have already put on a poke that I quite frankly think is overkill
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Overkill compared to what, Luvdisc? He's still tiny pickin's compared to Mence and Lucario and Infernape and the other really beastly mixers.



I know we'll make a poke with this spread 120/120/120/3/115/122 that'll really stir up the metagame
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I do believe the lowest stat is 5 (unless you count Shedinja's HP (which is kinda cool you have to admit)), the lowest defensive stat is 10 (on the most used pokemon no less), that crazy stat distro is not at all what I suggest. You and I both know there is a limit to how much you can disparage stats: that doesn't mean we should avoid it altogether.
 
Pneuma said:
Yes, but does he scare people with his massive attacking prowess? He is weak like Cress is weak, the ability to simply be ineffective. Also, those defenses are hilariously bad when compared to the premier walls such as Blissey, Hippo, Cress, and others. That may have passed in 2nd/3rd gen, not so much anymore.

Right, and people use him all the time. Oh wait, it's because he is more often than not a worse Gyarados or is just walled by whatever bulky water the opponent happens to have.

Then why not 75/40/150? This isn't old gen anymore, pretty much anything with less than 100/100 defenses and a reliable recovery move (or amazing typing such as this) simply cannot wall. They are just an inefficient attacker in most regards.



We have this great opportunity to stir the pot and instead we keep dulling it down with these "beautifully balanced fighters." Where's our new Blisseys with two 10 base stats, our new Trapinches with 5 base speed, new Alakazams and Weaviles with paper defenses. We can't be so arrogant as to think we're not harming the game by introducing complete anomalies in the form of "balanced fighters."

Give it a strength (a mighty strength, a niche, a trick) and give it a weakness (a mighty weakness, Heracross v. Flying, 'Dos v. Electric, Dragons v. Ice) and force the game to move along.
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We did that with Syclant; people complained. Syclant even has two 4x weaks and people think that isn't big enough of an Achilles heel. Also, I proprosed one of those uber exaggerated stat designs, people didn't like it because they were like 47 HP = death to everything.


It doesn't really matter what you think unfortunately. It matters what the majority thinks. Also, I think a metagame with many balanced Pokemon would be better than one with drastically imbalanced Pokemon and a few balanced ones.

Edit:

You also don't seem to understand balanced. This is a balance solely between offense and defense. It could still have 100/150/150/10/10/120 (aka 540 BST) stats. Rhyperior is balanced offensively and defensively, but imbalanced Physically / Specially. I don't want this Pokemon to be exactly like Kingdra. Swampert still stands out as the best example. It has a fairly large 110 attack stat, but has the typing and defenses (100/90/85) to be a nice tank. That is what balanced means.
 
Buh... you have no idea what balanced game is, do you? Let's all play rock-rock-rock, it's a much more balanced game than rock-paper-scissors.
 
Personally I really like the idea of "swordmaster"

with a custom move such as

Dark Blade

Base power: 50
Accuracy: 95

secondary effect: 10% cahnce to raise attack by 1 stage 20% to drop it by 1 stage
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With 50 power + stab it goes to 75 power, and then sword master brings it up to 150, and stuff like battle armor have the potential to shut this down and the 20% attack drop make it not too broken.

anyways.. i personally like to see Offense. with something like

50/115/60/60/60/105 with swords dance, cross chop/close combat, and dark blade and stone edge(not effected by swordmaster)
 
Pneuma said:
Do you think we should ever stop? I despise mediocrity.
The point I've made all along is that balanced doesn't mean 100 stats across the board (or 80 stats across the board), it means that it has a viable strength and weakness.

Overkill compared to what, Luvdisc? He's still tiny pickin's compared to Mence and Lucario and Infernape and the other really beastly mixers.

I do believe the lowest stat is 5 (unless you count Shedinja's HP (which is kinda cool you have to admit)), the lowest defensive stat is 10 (on the most used pokemon no less), that crazy stat distro is not at all what I suggest. You and I both know there is a limit to how much you can disparage stats: that doesn't mean we should avoid it altogether.
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Why? Some of the best pokemon are "mediocre" which is purely by taste, not pure stats. Ursaring, is an amazing pokemon, w/ 1 Swords Dance it and GUTS it can 2hko Skarmory, with lefties with Facade. A move that it resists.

Just because the pokemon is average with it's base spread it just gives it the more options that pokemon can do, which will make ti all the more better. Alot of pokemon that exist in the BL tier, can hold their own in any tier.

Yes Luvdisc and all his NU buddies scream use me, but they are quirky enough to warrant use, Yes I don't believe we should make a pokemon destined for the dregs of NU, But I believe we can make a pokemon that doesn't exist entirely for OU use.

I believe balanced means it has similar stats all within a range of each other with one slightly lower than the others (notice speed). This pokemon has very similar stat spread to swampert and you wouldn't exactly call him mediocre?

I know the spread i suggested above was abit extreme, and I am not discouraging let's make the spreads unique and amazing, with all different possiblities, What I am saying we did it last time, and why not do something different even if it's only for this one time?
 
Pneuma said:
Buh... you have no idea what balanced game is, do you? Let's all play rock-rock-rock, it's a much more balanced game than rock-paper-scissors.
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I don't see how if everything has 100 across the board it would be Rock-rock-rock. Last time I checked, certain types beat others? We are merely suggesting that this Pokemon has the typing to be offensive and defensive. Why should we waste one of those potentials? You still don't seem to understand that we could give it a 5 in speed for all we cared. This balanced is purely for offense/defense.

Ghandi1988 said:
I believe balanced means it has similar stats all within a range of each other with one slightly lower than the others (notice speed). This pokemon has very similar stat spread to swampert and you wouldn't exactly call him mediocre?
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No balanced solely means its offensive prowess is relatively close to its defensive prowess.


Balance is the same thing as a tank
 
I think it should be balanced, but with a sliiiight shift towards Physical (Atk, Def) because we need more physical ghosts.


85/115/95/75/70/85

Thats Base 525, enough for any normal poke to hang about in BL/OU with.

But due to the typing (and the new ability it is sure to have) it will undoubtable float into OU and stay there.

Remember its not the stats, its what it can do with them. And with Smogon's flair for creativity, there will be a new ability with this pokemon, along with a large movepool which allows for many movesets.

We don't have to settle for mediocrity, but we have to realise it isn't a husk of numbers, its all the bells and whistles that will make it.
 
Ghandi1988 said:
Balanced-ish

75/75/100/113/90/60 - 513

in aspect to other Balanced
75/95/95/95/95/85 - Kingdra - 540
100/110/90/85/90/60 - Swampert - 535
80/70/70/90/100/70 - Ludicolo - 480

Stats:
HP: 260 - 354
Attack: 139 - 273
Defense: 184 - 328
Sp. Atk: 207 - 357
Sp. Def: 166 - 306
Speed: 112-240

I'm thinking with it's typing physical hits should be it's forte, Ghosts reknowned not for phyically interacting things, but more produce a fear, or invoke a feeling and are normally vanquished via Special means. I also feel that it should have a bigger lean on defenses than Sp. Defenses with the same reasoning on focus for Sp. Attack.

75/100/90 give's gives it more of a tankish feel, but the lower Health is known with ghosts and could help using the Psuedo recovery move PainSplit, as I feel that one of it's traits should be insomnia and thus removing rest/talk from the situation.

75/113/60 are not over the average let's run to the hills attacking stats, yes, it'd make this a prime canidate for Choice Scarfing to outspeed things, but there is nothing wrong with that's, also give's it the abilty to MixAttack which a Ghost should be able to do if it really focuses on it's physical aspect.

With it's Attack stat it can acquire the magic number to wipe out Blissey with Explosion 260 (However requires alot of investment for that).

With all that being said, anyone has any critiques on my spread?

Note: the spread came before comparing, just happens to be similar to Swampy by coincidence
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I will re-iterate my post in response to you Hyra, I know that you don't agree with my view upon balanced, However the spread in bold above is a balanced spread wouldn't you say?
 
Hey!

Maybe a fast tank! We don't really have a fast wall right now, and a fast speed tank can really help at giving in fast destiny bond and Will-o-Wisp. Make it slightly towards the special side with Nasty Plot. If given time, it can be quite good.

110/40/90/65/103/117

Total will be 525.

Of course, give it Vacuum Wave, Nasty Plot, Cosmic Power, Curse [Ghost Type], and breedable with Mismagius for Pain Split as well as Power Gem, but don't overpower it with Recover or something.

Ability can simply be something as Synchronize.
 
All people for high speed physical sweeper, say YAY
All these people that want a balanced pokemon are wanting something that will be nerfed to BL for lack of attacking or defending power.
In a metagame like DP, it's either all attack or all defense. There is no happy medium anymore!
 
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