Smogon Doubles UU

[Audiosurfer]

Disclaimer: This is a thread to comment and discuss on the Smogon Doubles UU metagame. This metagame is not official and is thus to be considered an Other Metagame, only relevant to Smogon Doubles and reliant on main Smogon Doubles rules.

Smogon Doubles UU

The Smogon Doubles UnderUsed is a metagame where Pokémon are banned due to OverUsed usage and thus underused Pokémon that rarely see the battle field on regular Smogon Doubles can be used to great success. Feel free to discuss tactics, teams, Pokémon, and rules on this thread. This is also the place to post Smogon Doubles UU replays and to organise tournaments.

Smogon Doubles UU can be played on Pokémon Showdown on its ladder or via challenge. The active clauses are Species Clause, Moody Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves and Abilities Clause, and Endless Battle Clause; thus rules in place are the following:
Pokémon from all six generations that are not unreleased nor illegal and do not share Pokédex number are allowed.
All released abilities that are not Moody and that increase Evasion are allowed.
All released items but Soul Dew are allowed.
All moves but Dark Void, evasion increasing, and OHKO moves are allowed.
Combinations of moves, abilities, and items that cause battles to be endless are banned.
Team Preview is present.
Pokémon that are deemed Uber or are OU by usage are not allowed:

UBER
Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Arceus, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem-White, Xerneas, Yveltal

UU Banlist:
Aegislash, Amoonguss, Azumarill, Bisharp, Breloom, Camerupt, Chandelure, Charizard, Conkeldurr, Cresselia, Deoxys-Attack, Diancie, Dragonite, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Garchomp, Gardevoir, Gengar, Greninja, Gyarados, Heatran, Hitmontop, Hydreigon, Kangaskhan, Keldeo, Kyurem-Black, Landorus-Therian, Latios, Ludicolo, Mamoswine, Mawile, Meowstic, Metagross, Mew, Politoed, Porygon2, Rotom-Wash, Sableye, Salamence, Sceptile, Scizor, Scrafty, Shaymin-Sky,Slowbro, Suicune, Swampert, Sylveon, Talonflame, Terrakion, Thundurus, Togekiss, Tyranitar, Venusaur, Zapdos

Drops:
Abomasnow, Aromatisse, Dusclops, Jellicent, Manectric, Rhyperior, Rotom-Heat, Thundurus-Therian, Weavile, Whimsicott

In honor of the new ladder this metagame received, I decided to give it a fresh start with a new thread. So yeah, go ladder, share your experiences, and have fun :)

 

[Pastelle]

I've never tried UU doubles before, and to be honest I didn't know it existed till now.. but, regardless, its sounds challenging and fun! I'll need to try it out soon!

 

[koolkranny]

Something Ive noticed so far is the use of choice scarf on almost seemingly random pokes. I am even running a scarf on Gallade. So far, I have had mixed results. The suprise knock off, close combat or psycho cut has sometimes helped me, other times killed me. It's almost like the meta is trying to find a new Landoge.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

To be successful in this meta you need a tornadus check/counter. Fast, prankster, powa all cause torn to be a threat. Jirachi beats it, empoleon can beat non superpower/focus blast variants.

Arcanine is a pretty sick fire type in uu. The rare intimidate, will o wisp and nice priority makes for a nice support poke that can pack a punch.

Deo a is still in uu. What.

Mega absol is trash. Mega medicham is good for fake out and powa.

 

[Qazoo306]

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- U-turn
- Close Combat

To answer koolkranny's question... this set functions very well as a psuedo landerous-t. It has the ability, a similar move pool and still hits like a truck. I'd recommend it as a lead with just using u-turn because it is one of the few intimidators in the tier and you want to preserve it a bit until you can start killing weakened stuff with STAB bravebirds (hits about as hard as a BANDED talonflame's brave bird). Over all, I'd highly recommend this set.

Edit; reckless is also viable to nuke stuff. Also 100th post :)

 

[Jatayu09]

This seems like an interesting meta seeing as intimidate and fake out seem more rare (haven't played the tier so I have no idea what I'm saying). Are there any major threats I should keep in mind for teambuilding?

 

[AuraRayquaza]

This seems like an interesting meta seeing as intimidate and fake out seem more rare (haven't played the tier so I have no idea what I'm saying). Are there any major threats I should keep in mind for teambuilding?

You are right in saying that fake out and intimidate are rarer. Mega medicham and infernape are the only two legit fake outers i can think of atm but they can be hard to fit onto teams with their poor bulk.

Arcanine is a good intimidater as it gets WoW, helping hand and nice attacks like extremespeed. Krookodile is also viable with its nice offensive typing for this meta, but less effective than arcanine.

Threats: tornadus, deo a, lando i, manual rain, mega medicham (just use a faster poke).

 

[Aerogon]

Broken or not..I dont think Deo-A belongs in this meta.
Also..its tough to find games, which is obvious since its a new ladder.

 

[Qazoo306]

So after playing a few (not many) games, I've noticed that sun with Ninetales and Mega-Houndoom is a very common thing to find on the ladder. Beyond Houndoom, what good sun abusing pokemon are there in then tier? I haven't seen many others beyond the previously mentioned Houndoom.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

So after playing a few (not many) games, I've noticed that sun with Ninetales and Mega-Houndoom is a very common thing to find on the ladder. Beyond Houndoom, what good sun abusing pokemon are there in then tier? I haven't seen many others beyond the previously mentioned Houndoom.

Thats odd becaude ive never seen sun with houndoom. Do you remember any of the teams with them you faced? For sun abusers, there arent many - assault vest cherrim is decent. The only others i can think of are lilligant and victreebel, no-ones first choice.

Imo sun is a bad choice in uu. There are pokes like goodra and latias to wall whole sun teams, and manual rain is very common. Torndaus doesnt have to.switch each time it wants rain, it just gets rain unlike ninetales

 

[skillzfodayz]

Judging by the pokemon that are available in the tier, I think there may be a lot of Tailwind/Scarfers since Trick Room isn't that much of a viable strategy. Personally, I think a pokemon like Aerodactyl will be quite viable in this format due to its just natural speed and Tailwind support, and T-Wave Klefki might also be used.

Also, I think that sun while may lack abusers other than Mega-Houndoom, there are still decent fire type attackers that can use sun to it's advantage. Excited to see how this format of doubles is gonna be different from regular doubles though. :)

 

[thebagman]

Absol works as UU's version of Bisharp (especially competent since the tier provides less viable fairy threats) and Tangrowth makes a nice step in for Amoonguss... less TR and Weather abusers around as well but Tailwind is especially deadly. Entai has some nice staying power in place of Arcanine.

 

[Qazoo306]

Absol works as UU's version of Bisharp (especially competent since the tier provides less viable fairy threats) and Tangrowth makes a nice step in for Amoonguss... less TR and Weather abusers around as well but Tailwind is especially deadly. Entai has some nice staying power in place of Arcanine.

How does Absol function as UU's Bisharp? The reason Bisharp is good is because it can make your opponent think twice before switching in an intimidator, but Absol has no means of punishing intimidators. I've seem Empoleon used for defiant before, but it seems like it's not nearly as good as Bisharp. Any thoughts? I haven't seen Tangrowth yet, but it seems good in theory.

Also has anyone else tried Mega-Pinsir? I have and I must say that the lack of a prominent rock-type really helps it out a lot! A set of return, feint, close combat and protect works wonders for my team. Has anyone else tried it? It also has hyper-cutter pre mega evolving, so it can be lead with and not be hindered by intimidate.

 

[13ulbasaur]

How does Absol function as UU's Bisharp? The reason Bisharp is good is because it can make your opponent think twice before switching in an intimidator, but Absol has no means of punishing intimidators. I've seem Empoleon used for defiant before, but it seems like it's not nearly as good as Bisharp. Any thoughts?

Don't forget about competitive. Milotic could function pretty nicely maybe.

 

[thebagman]

How does Absol function as UU's Bisharp? The reason Bisharp is good is because it can make your opponent think twice before switching in an intimidator, but Absol has no means of punishing intimidators. I've seem Empoleon used for defiant before, but it seems like it's not nearly as good as Bisharp. Any thoughts? I haven't seen Tangrowth yet, but it seems good in theory.

Also has anyone else tried Mega-Pinsir? I have and I must say that the lack of a prominent rock-type really helps it out a lot! A set of return, feint, close combat and protect works wonders for my team. Has anyone else tried it? It also has hyper-cutter pre mega evolving, so it can be lead with and not be hindered by intimidate.

im just comparing absol and bisharp in terms of sucker punch stab spam and comparable att and spe. nothing could take the place of bisharp for real <3

 

[skillzfodayz]

I've started to see a couple of half decent trick room teams now, the best setters I've seen so far are Eviolite Porygon2, Slowbro, and Slowking. All 3 are insanely bulky (particularly p2) and the Slows are both immune to Taunt with Oblivious or have Regenerator for insane recovery. Dusknoir with Mental Herb is also a decent setter because it isn't vulnerable to Fake Out

While there still are Trick Room setters than can be used, there aren't very many good mons that can take advantage of it. Maybe escavalier, hariyama, or diggersby. But really there just aren't enough real good Trick Room Abusers, and I think teams we high speed would have more effective than Trick Room teams.

 

[KyleCole]

While there still are Trick Room setters than can be used, there aren't very many good mons that can take advantage of it. Maybe escavalier, hariyama, or diggersby. But really there just aren't enough real good Trick Room Abusers, and I think teams we high speed would have more effective than Trick Room teams.

esavalier, parasect, hariyama, trevenant, torkoal, mega blastoise, mega ampharos, mega heracross, magnezone, crawdaunt, mega aggron, machamp, doublade, druddigon, exploud, and vileplume might be good

 

[skillzfodayz]

esavalier, parasect, hariyama, trevenant, torkoal, mega blastoise, mega ampharos, mega heracross, magnezone, crawdaunt, mega aggron, machamp, doublade, druddigon, exploud, and vileplume might be good

While some are decent, I think that a lot of them are a bit more trouble than theyre worth. Parasects real only use is spore under trick room asumming its still alive, trevenant cant really do much other leech seed and WoW, doublade cant take any special hits, and I havent seen druddigon, exploud, or vileplume in doubles. While I do get ur point that trick room can work, I still think it's not worth the trouble

 

[AuraRayquaza]

Well built tr teams are very good in uu. Many of the threats in this meta are easily beaten in tr and it is a very dangerous playstyle with so many fast pokes. The issue with tr is getting it up, on many pokes, fake out from medicham and simple brute force can beat setters. I like slowbro the best because, as kylecole said, it is so bulky it can get up tr while beig immune to taunt.

Ways of beating tr, taunt on 2 pokes (i like it so that you can always have a taunter in and for surprise factor); gake out, and escavalier, who works very well on non tr teams

 

[qwerts]

While some are decent, I think that a lot of them are a bit more trouble than theyre worth. Parasects real only use is spore under trick room asumming its still alive, trevenant cant really do much other leech seed and WoW, doublade cant take any special hits, and I havent seen druddigon, exploud, or vileplume in doubles. While I do get ur point that trick room can work, I still think it's not worth the trouble

Sorry to contradict you, but saying trick room is too much trouble really isn't right. All the mons mentioned are viable and have certain niches (parasect has rage powder, trevenant has harvest which can get interesting, along with good support moves, etc.) Also saying trick room isnt worth the trouble is the same as saying its not worth the trouble to set up tailwind, and the only viable strategy is bring six mons that perform without a strategy. Trick room is popular for a reason, and every mon has weaknesses.

EDIT: If anyone can tell me, why does it say "fat skillzfodayz" or fat in front of quotes?

 

[13ulbasaur]

EDIT: If anyone can tell me, why does it say "fat skillzfodayz" or fat in front of quotes?

From what I read before, I think that was a joke added some time ago but no one bothered to remove it.

 

[Audiosurfer]

To try and raise the quality of posts in this thread, I wanted to address an interesting point someone made earlier. koolkranny said that the meta is trying to find a new Landoge, hence the experimentation with a range of scarfers. I'd propose that if people are really looking for a new Scarf Lando-T, they should give normal Landorus a try though, as it is probably the closest you'll get to Landorus-T and is actually a pretty great cleaner. Has a lot of speed & power, and Sheer Force makes Rock Slide more powerful (if you bring Hippowdon or just want the flinch chance, Sand Force is an option too). Used it in my first Doubles UU team and it was a good catch all to many threats, especially given the nature of the metagame in its experimental state, so it comes with my recommendations. It's even better than when I used it now that Weavile isn't in the tier anymore to pick it off with Ice Shard. So yeah give it a whirl :) Might post on the team I'm currently using some other time but wanted to say this for now.

Landorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force / Sand Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Rock Slide

 

[Qazoo306]

To try and raise the quality of posts in this thread, I wanted to address an interesting point someone made earlier. koolkranny said that the meta is trying to find a new Landoge, hence the experimentation with a range of scarfers. I'd propose that if people are really looking for a new Scarf Lando-T, they should give normal Landorus a try though, as it is probably the closest you'll get to Landorus-T and is actually a pretty great cleaner. Has a lot of speed & power, and Sheer Force makes Rock Slide more powerful (if you bring Hippowdon or just want the flinch chance, Sand Force is an option too). Used it in my first Doubles UU team and it was a good catch all to many threats, especially given the nature of the metagame in its experimental state, so it comes with my recommendations. It's even better than when I used it now that Weavile isn't in the tier anymore to pick it off with Ice Shard. So yeah give it a whirl :) Might post on the team I'm currently using some other time but wanted to say this for now.

Landorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force / Sand Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Rock Slide

The issue with saying that the meta is trying to find a new Landoge is that no other pokemon is as perfect of a storm with ability move pool STABs and typing like Landoge is. So instead of saying that the meta is looking for a new Landoge, we should try to figure out what makes Landoge so good and try to find a new pokemon that fits the bill well enough. So far for consideration we have Gallade, Staraptor, Landorous-I and I think I've heard Krookodile mentioned before in the PS doubles room. What traits do they have that make them UU's version of Landorous-T and why?

Tl;Dr: we shouldn't be listing replacement Landorous', we should figure out why Landoge is good and then discuss pokemon that fit the reason it's good.

 

[koolkranny]

I think what makes Landoge so good is a combination of several factors. Intimidate combined with an incredibly good defensive and offensive typing means that it is very good at scouting, switching in and then sweeping in the same game. The only way to reliably defeat it is to hit it with a well predicted ice move, water move or Defiant Bisharp, because almost all other special moves takes 2 or more hits, most physical moves will 3 or more hits, and Bisharp is the only Defiant/competitve mon who can go faster.

Some calcs to consider. -1 +252 Tyranitar Crunch vs 4HP 0 Def Landorus-T= 33.7-39.6%
-1 +252 Conkeldurr Knock off vs 4HP 0 Def Landorus-T=28.1-33.1%
-1 +252 Gyarados waterfall vs 4HP 0 Def Landorous-T= 63.7-75.6%
252 Charizard Y heat wave in sun vs 4HP 0 Def Landorus-T=76.2-90%

Basically unless your name is Bisharp, anything that relies on physical moves will be shut down, and the only way to regain momentum is to U-Turn or Volt Switch because a swords dance is difficult to pull off in doubles.

In summary, if there were something that could even come close to landoge's job, it would be used. But having an immunity to 2 common attacking types, and the ability to shut down virtually every other physical attacker, and to be able to out-speed and counter many special threats.

While Audiosurfer has an interesting set, it only accomplishes the sweeper and mild defensive role. It can't scout or shut down physical attackers.

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Double-Edge
- U-turn
- Brave Bird

Staraptor doesn't have the defensive typing to be able to tank hits, and only bearly has the move pool and attack stat to be able to deal significant damage. But, if it was much better, it would probably get bumped to Standard doubles. So if there were a mon who could shut down physical attackers, scout opposing teams, and late game sweep. It loses a little offensive power because it cant learn spread moves, but in return has higher single attack power. The addition of U-turn allows scouting and the ability to maintain momentum. Yes, this is Qazoo's set, and after having a chance to explore it, this is about as close as you are going to get.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

From what i understand, people are finding it hard to play dubs uu because of lack of knowledge about the meta and what is good to use. Therefore, i have decided to post a dubs uu team which can serve as a reference for new players to use and also steal.

Importable

Hide

Tornadus (M) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tailwind
- Hurricane
- Taunt
- U-turn

Arcanine @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Heat Wave
- Helping Hand
- Protect

Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Protect

Jirachi @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Follow Me
- Iron Head
- Protect
- Thunder Wave

Raikou @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Protect

Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Protect

Disclaimer: my ev spreads are lazy, use better ones

This team is a tailwind team, the strongest playstyle in the meta atm, while rarely losing to tr. Tornadus is a very good poke, as it has prankster tailwind, taunt and hurricane. Taunt is there to stop tr and opposing tailwind. Wide lens is used so hurricane can be spammed more with less chance of missing. U turn for momentum. Note, u turn isnt meant to do damage, only gain momentum, so a timid nature is used to not compromise defenses.

Arcanine is also a good poke,.with intimidate and WoW. Along with moves like snarl, helping hand and heat wave, it can be a strong team supporter while still destroying escavalier. I felt helping hand would be good to power up hurricane and other moves to get guaranteed kos.

Mega medicham is the most legit mega in uu imo. Super strong and good recovery in drain punch (does enough damage to a non resist to recover about 30% min) with fake out. Zen headbutt over psycho cut every day.

I added jirachi as a counter to tornadus and other flying types/fast pokes. Steel typing is important in uu to beat torn and dragons, as there is a severe lack of fairies (slurpuff is ass). Follow me is awesome to redirect attacks from my relatively frail attackers. T wave paralyzes kingdras, torns etc. iron head for flinch shenanigans. The ev spread is just spdef while speed creeping the showdown spread with 32 speed (people just click on it sometimes).

Raikou was a second flying check and just generally fast attacker. It also hurts water types and so can act as a soft rain check too. Volt switch for momentum and shadow ball to smack psychics and ghosts trying to set up tr. Lo for power.

Virizion is my hard rain check and also bashes steels. A rain check is necessary in uu because manual rain with torndaus and kindra is potent to say the least. Taunt again for tr. Standard moves and lo again for power when hitting kingdras and other pokes.

Just to finish, notice my rain check, flying check and 2 tr answers. These are all necessary imo to making a good tailwind team in uu (ofc you dont need tr answers on a tr team). If anyone else could post a team, it would be nice to draw comparisons in teambuilding.

EDIT: not included in this team are staraptor and deo a, as well as latias, lo goodra and landorus i, all very dangerous threats under tailwind ( latias is a good dual screener too)