So I can't write titles, mmmkay? [OU]

tdub13

Yea, if I ever had to write a book, I'd leave the titling(is that even a word?) to my publisher. Anyways, I figure you guys didn't clicked on this to read how I would title my books, or something like that, so here's my somewhat successful team. Pictures are up, it was fun stealing them from other RMTs.
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Bronzong @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/104 Atk/20 Def/4 Spd/128 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Hypnosis
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
---
This is no doubt one of the best leads ever. Sets up Stealth Rock for me, and sometimes even Sleeping one of the opponent's Pokemon. I'm not running Gyro Ball, so I went with Impish, to get a jump on other Bronzongs.
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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Recover
- Leech Seed
- Grass Knot
- Reflect
---
Celebi is amazing. Gyarados counter as well as a somewhat okay Garchomp counter. Leech Seed to annoy the opponent, although I've been thinking about replacing it with Thunder Wave.
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Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP/16 Atk/36 Spd/216 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Crunch
---
One of those bulky CBTars. Deals with Cressilia, Celebi, and other Psychics fairly well. I tend to switch this into a ton of things, so it gets killed rather quickly, adn without it, I can't really threaten some things that would other wise wall me. The speed Evs allows it to outrun stuff like Vaporeon(65), and get off an attack before they can Wish or whatever,

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 172 HP/188 Spd/148 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Magnet Rise
---
Traps steels, such as Skarmory or Bronzong who could potentially stop Garchomp from sweeping. Also counters Yanmega, who could otherwise walk through half my team. The speed Evs allow me to outrun Metagross, who usually runs no more than 202 speed and Magnet Rise in its face.
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Gyarados (M) @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 24 HP/252 Atk/232 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bite
- Stone Edge
---
I've been tweaking this for a while, with mixed results. This is the only way I can deal with things such as Gliscor, but if it's asleep, the problem becomes magnified. Works somewhat well as a sleep absorber, while packing enough speed to outpace Tyranitar with a DD. Wacan Berry lets me DD in Gengar's face and survive a T-Bolt while killing it with Waterfall. I feel that this is the weakest link on the team, however, I'm rather reluctant to drop it as it absorbs status and provides me with a reliable Water attack.
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Garchomp (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spd
Jolly (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
---
My lategame sweeper. SubSalac works very well, especially when Steels are out of the way. However, it doesn't pack enough power to beat Gliscor, which is a bit of a concern.

Threats and Concerns:

Snorlax: surprisingly, this has given me more trouble than almost anything else. My team lacks a Fighting attack, so once it starts to Curse up, it's incredibly hard to take down, with me having to sacrifice several Pokemon just to kill it.

Mixape: haven't seen this at all, but I feel versions that forgo Nasty Plot for HP Ice can walk through my team once Gyarados is down.

Gliscor: the only thing that can really threaten it is Gyarados, and even he can't even beat SD PAssing versions.

Lack of Wish Support: this mainly applies to Tyranitar, who I switch into a lot of threats, and as a result, he gets worn down pretty quickly, same for Magnezone and even Garchomp.

Heracross: this gives me the chills just thinking about it. CB or CS versions are dealt with prediction, however Flame Orbed versions pretty much kills everybody.

So, help would be appreciated. Changes are now in bold.
 
R2-D2 Rules! said:
Yea, if I ever had to write a book, I'd leave the titling(is that even a word?) to my publisher. Anyways, I figure you guys didn't clicked on this to read how I would title my books, or something like that, so here's my somewhat successful team. No pictures for now, since I'm lazy.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/104 Atk/20 Def/4 Spd/128 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Hypnosis
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
---
This is no doubt one of the best leads ever. Sets up Stealth Rock for me, and sometimes even Sleeping one of the opponent's Pokemon. I'm not running Gyro Ball, so I went with Impish, to get a jump on other Bronzongs.

Your evs are odd I guess; why have 4 Speed since you're not dropping Speed? I'd invest some of those Atk/SDef Evs in Defense.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Recover
- Leech Seed
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
---
Celebi is amazing. Gyarados counter as well as a somewhat okay Garchomp counter. Leech Seed to annoy the opponent, although I've been thinking about replacing it with Thunder Wave.

Take it from me - if you want Celeb to take on Garchomp, you need Reflect. I don't like HP Ice on Celebi; Grass Knot + Leech Seed + Reflect does fine, and gives more support.

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP/16 Atk/36 Spd/216 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Crunch
---
One of those bulky CBTars. Deals with Cressilia, Celebi, and other Psychics fairly well. I tend to switch this into a ton of things, so it gets killed rather quickly, adn without it, I can't really threaten some things that would other wise wall me. The speed Evs allows it to outrun stuff like Vaporeon(65), and get off an attack before they can Wish or whatever,

I like the idea; though some Vaporeons run speed.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 172 HP/188 Spd/148 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Magnet Rise
---
Traps steels, such as Skarmory or Bronzong who could potentially stop Garchomp from sweeping. Also counters Yanmega, who could otherwise walk through half my team. The speed Evs allow me to outrun Metagross, who usually runs no more than 202 speed and Magnet Rise in its face.

No problems here.

Gyarados (M) @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 212 HP/16 Atk/96 Def/184 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
---
I've been tweaking this for a while, with mixed results. This is the only way I can deal with things such as Gliscor, but if it's asleep, the problem becomes magnified. Works somewhat well as a sleep absorber, while packing enough speed to outpace Tyranitar with a DD. Wacan Berry lets me DD in Gengar's face and survive a T-Bolt while killing it with Waterfall. I feel that this is the weakest link on the team, however, I'm rather reluctant to drop it as it absorbs status and provides me with a reliable Water attack.

I love this set. But just run Leftovers, it's not worth it in the long run, especially with Sandstorm in play.

Garchomp (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
---
My lategame sweeper. SubSalac works very well, especially when Steels are out of the way. However, it doesn't pack enough power to beat Gliscor, which is a bit of a concern.

I'd use Outrage over Dragon Claw, since its supposed to be an "endgamer".
Click to expand...

I think the additon of Starmie over Celebi would make your team much better immediately. It counters Gyarados as well as Celebi does (though is more vulnerable to all out attacking sets), as well as fixing your Mixape problem. Also, it provides a fast attack against stuff like weakened Yachechomp (even with Surf), and it helps take care of your Gliscor problem.

Also, a team team like this to me has a pretty big field hazard weak, particularly Toxic Spikes, seeing as while you have 3 pokemon that resist it, your two biggest hitters are weak to it, and one of those is something that you also rely on to take hits, while the other abuses Substitute.

Not sure what you can do about Snorlax except get it Resting then stat up in its face. Snorlax is an incredibly overlooked threat (it wasn't a top 10 pokemon every previous generation for nothing!) which is suprisingly durable, even with the greater plethora of special threats.

Other than that, the team is a bit solid, very standard, but solid.

Wish Support doesn't really hurt with a team like this, and you can't fit everything on one team.
 
These are the same 6 pokes on my main team--albeit some with different movesets. As such I would say that right now, Infernape loves this team. I would recommend putting a scarf on Garchomp and maybe make Tyranitar a DDtar--thus maintaining the same balance and adding an unexpected late-game sweeper. I find it surprising that DDtar, which rocked ADV, in now considered an underused set xD

Wacan Berry should only be on a Gyarados that all out sweeps in my opinion. For Resttalking I recommend a more defensive spread, and Leftovers for sure.

Bronzong wants Gyro Ball desperately, seeing as how Gengar is still a rather common lead. Though to each his own.
 
Thanks for the quick replies, y'all.(i love that word, lol)

AR: I gave Bronzong Evs so it has 300 in both defenses, and rest in attack. I think I'll try Reflect on Celebi first, to see how it works out. If it doesn't help, I'll just run a Starmie over it. To be honest, Toxic Spikes is really annoying as well, as it hurts the potential of my sweepers.

Dromin: I like the idea, but the current set allows me to take some hits while maintaining its status as an instant threat. With Gengar leads, I switch to 'Dos to take the Hypnosis, and then to T-tar to take a T-bolt/whatever and Pursuit it to death.

Ninja: I didn't write it up, I just converted the team builder to text. I don't think it's that big of a problem, as SDef pretty much lets you know it's Special Defense.
 
Bronzong needs Gyro Ball. Gyro Ball is one of those attacks that are needed on a Pokemon like him. Your Bronzong can't do shit anything to lead Gengars, and can't handle Garchomp, since Gyro Ball usally takes a big chunk out of Dragons, although it's not supposed to counter. You can run him with a Impish or Relaxed nature with 1 IV in Speed, for that Gyro Ball boost and outspeed other 0 Speed Bronzongs. Gyro Ball should be replaced for Explosion imo.

Gliscor fixes all Heracross problems. Flame Orb or Choice Band, it can handle every Heracross set, and other hard Physical attackers. Gyarados is better off with an EV Spread like 212 HP/196 Def/100 SDef, takes hits better.

I got to go right now, I'll do a better rate later hopefully.
 
Still, Infernape is a pretty massive issue, and with rocks up Gyarados will only be able to counter it for so long. Or not at all with the Nasty Plot set or any set with Thunderpunch.
 
I don't have a lot of time since I have a final in !!! 4 hours, but I'll throw in some input.

This team is very fast. You can afford to run Lum Bronzong as your lead in order to smack around enemy Gengars and Yanmegas can get the jump on opposing Bronzong leads. Furthermore, Gyro Ball is a superior move to EQ, since it will allow you to hit Gengar for huge damage (EQ is really only for Zone and Heatran; however zones pretty much always use mag rise now and you can already deal with Heatran).

Something that might be pretty cool would be to make TTar into a mixed expert belt variant, and bluff a choice item as they switch into gliscor, then ice beam it to oblivion. Paired with Magnezone, this will completely clear the way for Garchomp. This will also help to take down enemy Garchomps who think they can SD safely on TTar.

Leech Seed is an amazing move, but you don't really have the entry hazards to take advantage of forces switches (or a fire type to come in on predictable grass switch-ins). To be honest I would go with reflect, since reflect Celebi is actually an amazing Garchomp stopper, not to mention an arguably better Gyara counter than Starmie. In addition, Reflect will help you set up your fast sweepers.

Wacan Gyara is a great idea, however I don't think it needs to be running a rest/talk set. Bronzong will hopefully deal with sleepers early game, and even if he doesn't I would want the extra power on Gyara. Let's make it a more offensive build, like 252 Atk / 232 Speed / 24 HP, with DD/Waterfall/EQ/Ice Fang. This will allow you to OHKO Starmie with 2 DD's, which is easy to obtain when you're sitting on a wacan berry.

Yache Berry is always an option on Garchomp. There's nothing wrong with subsalac (in fact with magnezone it's amazing), I just think you should try it out to see which fits better (assuming you haven't already).

These changes make the team very offensive, so you need to watch out for teams that like to spam paralysis--obviously try to let Bronzong and Celebi take status as much as possible. You shouldn't forget that HP Ice isn't really necessary on Celebi since you now have reflect (though it is a useful Gliscor beater), so you can try Heal Bell if Status becomes a real problem.

As long as you have reflect up you shouldn't have much trouble with stat-uppers; however when it's down DD anything can give you trouble. One thing you could try is light clay Celebi (8 turn screens are amazing =P ), though with sandstorm it might not work out too well. In general, you should experiment with Celebi's massive support movepool to see what fits your team best.

Good Luck; Hope this Helps! --TAY
 
Thanks for all the suggestions and input, I've been running around with a Leech Seed/Reflect/Recover/Grass Knot, and it's pretty effective. I've found that Reflect lets Garchomp SD in physical wall's face, with them not being able to break the Sub.

I'm willing to try Gyro Ball on Bronzong, but I've found Explosion to be useful as it gets rid of immediate threats. With Gengar, I try to switch a few times before savely getting in Tyranitar, and Pusuiting it. I've tried Expert Belt, but found the power drop too drastic.

Venom, I know Gliscor solves all Heracross problems, but what would I replace it with? Infernape haven't been too much of a problem, as I haven't seen it at all in over 50+ matches. Although I could try running Starmie over Celebi. I'm kind of reluctant to drop Celebi since Reflect has been working so well. Going to try out Tay's suggestion on as offensive Gyarados. Keep them coming guys!

Switching back to Dragon Claw on Garchomp. I've found that the freedom to switch moves is more my style than pure power.
 
If you're going to run an offensive Gyarados, go with Bite > Ice Fang as it allows you to do a load to Starmie. Also go with Stone Edge to hit Salamence/Zapdos/other Gyarados.

As for Hera you basically have to win with prediction unless you take out Maggy.

I still think this team likes Starmie better.

When I play Sub/Salac, I usually want the subs to break with each hit so that I'll have control of when I get my speed boost.

IIRC Gyro Ball won't get the OHKO on Gengar, and a low health Gengar is still very dangerous. Better to sleep it.
 
Bite it is. I don't think it OHKOs after 1 DD though. 80.40% - 94.68% to 160 HP Starmie. I think I'll stick with EQ/IF/WF/DD

Yes, Heracross is still a massive threat for my team, but I've able to beat it so far.

Magnezone has to stay, as he gives me a vasluzble Steel resist against stuff like Yanmega.
Starmie would be an amazing asset, except I can't fit it over anybody else.

My reasoning with Sub/Salac is that even if I'm slower than you, but I'm behind a Sub, you can't hurt me before I kill you.

Gengar will have to be beat by prediction.
 
Ancien Régime said:
If you're going to run an offensive Gyarados, go with Bite > Ice Fang as it allows you to do a load to Starmie. Also go with Stone Edge to hit Salamence/Zapdos/other Gyarados.
Click to expand...

aaaaaaaaa

Don't fall into Earthworm's trap!

Pretty much the only reasons to run bite are the OHKO on Starmie and the Flinch chance on Celebi. Starmie isn't an issue due to Wacan berry, and Ice Fang does more damage to Celebi and has a 19% flinch/freeze chance anyway, not to mention much, much better coverage.

Oh and I meant that you should drop Earthquake for Gyro Ball.
 
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Gyarados (M) @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 24 HP/252 Atk/232 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Just because well, other gyara wall u completley otherwise
 
Gyarados's aren't too much of a problem, as most of the time they're weakened by Celebi, and plus Ice Fang hits the dragons.
 
Hm.. I have a team really similar to this in the same board, so I have a few suggestions (Team Fire Emblem). I have Vaporeon and Gliscor over Gyarados and Celebi, although the other pokemon are different.

Wish support would be really useful for your team, so I think I'd suggest Vaporeon over Gyarados. This allows you to counter Infernape.

I can't see a very good and solid way to counter SD Lucario and maybe Heracross on this team, so you might want to put Gliscor over Celebi. I originally had Celebi but without a defensive Gyarados SD Lucario might do some damage to this team.

Also I had the same TTar as yours but I realised if I had Light Screen on Bronzong I could use the standard CBTar for more damage. But I have no idea if that's reliable enough.
 
Wish support is really tempting, but I'm afraid I'd lose too much offense with Vaporeon over Gyarados.

Light Screen is a good suggestion, but there's no room to cram it on to Bronzong's moveset.

Lucario hasn't been too much of a problem, as Gyarados handles him fairly well.

Heracross, on the other hand, is a pain in fucking ass. Nothing on my team 'counters' it, and most of the time i'd have to rely on prediction to whittle it down.

I've running around with a DD/Waterfall/Bite/Stone Edge Gyarados, and it's been working out ok.
 
It's great if you can beat SD Lucario with Gyara, but it seems to me like Extremespeed might hurt.

It depends on your playing style of course, but if you want Wish support you might want to consider Jirachi somewhere.. Bronzong comes to mind although he's really useful.. Jirachi, Garchomp and Gyarados also cover their weaknesses.

Eh, I don't see why EQ is on Bronzong really.. so Light Screen there maybe.
 
Well, it gives me an attack that's not Explosion, so it I get Taunted by anything(Celebi for Gyarados) I have an attack.
 
Wait, why aren't you running Gyro Ball on Bronzong? Over Earthquake. Then you could run Light Screen over Explosion like I did.

It doesn't change the fact that this is a good, aggressive team, but I think you could use a little more defence. I still suggest STalk Gyarados over your DD one.

Vaporeon with Wish over Gyarados actually gives you some offense since you can repeatedly heal Tyranitar and Gyarados. So I think Wish support is extremely important for this team, since Bronzong, Magnezone, Tyranitar, Garchomp really need it. I can't stress this point enough.
 
lol, Restalk Gyara was what I had first. But the thing is, once it's resting, I lose a way to deal with Gliscor, and even Lucario to an extent.

I'm been running Gyro Ball/Light Screen all morning, but you'll be surprised at how many people switch in Magnezone right when I SR. I know most of them run Magnet Rise, but I can't dent it with Gyro Ball as my only attack.

Gyro Ball deals with fast stuff like Gengar, but once someone's asleep, Tyranitar deals with him fairly well.

I'm actually not too worried about the lack of Wish support, because most of time, I can hit fast enough to not worry about healing.
 
Wow, this team is excatly like Dormins.. lol

Anyway, I would definately ditch Earthquake for Gyro Ball to destroy Gengar right off the bat, and hike up the EVs for the OHKO. Earthquake doesn't do anything for Bronzong anyway, and Maggy will just come in and Magnet Rise you on turn 1.

There is really nothing wrong with the sets, but structurally it hase a few problems.

Since I've battled Dormin's team countless times I know the number one weakness is entry hazards. This team stands no chance against Stealth Rock in conjunction with Toxic Spikes. Another problem is Infernape. The Standard Fire Blast, Close Combat, Hidden Power Ice, Grass Knot Infernape is going to easily 6-0 this team with some residual damage. Although almost never seen (I run one), Swords Dance Ape absolutely runs through this team like there is no tomorrow, easily 6-0ing. When you switched to Offensive Gyarados, that is also opening up a major CB Heracross weakness also. This team lacks speed big time, so the use of a Scarfer in either Garchomp or Tyaranitar would do well with dealing with these threats.

Those are just some concerns. Not sure excatly what to change because the offensive structure is sound, just be aware of these threats and capitalize on opportunities to deal with them.
 
Yeah Erik pretty much hit it on the head. Since this is basically my team, his suggestions hold true here, maybe even more so than for me.

Infernape was one of the reasons I use Resttalk gyara and a scarf on either Chomp or T-tar--it really is a massive threat.
 
Hmm..would a Starmie over Celebi help with the Infernape problem? How much EVs are needed to OHKO Gar with Gyro Ball? I can't get the equation right for some reason. Is Stab factored in or does the damage cap at 150, with or without Stab?
 
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