Ubers Solgaleo

[OVERVIEW]

* Solgaleo is able to counter many Xerneas variants by virtue of its typing and above average defensive stats.
* It has access to reliable recovery via Morning Sun, which is rare among Xerneas answers.
* An above average Attack stat allows Solgaleo to run offensive sets, KOing Xerneas after a bit of prior damage or putting it into range of priority moves.
* Its wide coverage allows it to hit the vast majority of the metagame for decent damage.
* It is able to deal with Deoxys-A well, countering variants that do not carry Knock Off.
* An excellent ability in Full Metal Body allows Solgaleo to avoid Attack and Speed drops from Intimidate and Sticky Web.
* Solgaleo is hindered by its weakness to Ghost-types, which leaves it vulnerable to being revenge killed by Mega Gengar.
* Weaknesses to Ground- and Dark-types, two of the most viable types in the tier, do not help Solgaleo's defensive utility.
* It lacks the power to break through some walls, as Steel / Psychic is not the best offensive typing in the metagame.

[SET]
name: Offensive Utility
move 1: Sunsteel Strike
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Earthquake / Flare Blitz
move 4: Flare Blitz / Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
ability: Full Metal Body
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Sunsteel Strike is the mandatory STAB move and deals major damage to Fairy- and Rock-types.
* Toxic allows Solgaleo to cripple bulky Arceus formes and offensive Arceus formes with Recover, which otherwise wall it.
* Alternatively, Morning Sun can be used for extra longevity, but it can cause a loss in momentum due to requiring use nearly every time Solgaleo switches in to an attack.
* Earthquake hits the Pokemon that resist Sunsteel Strike, notably including Primal Groudon.
* Flare Blitz can be used to hit the Pokemon that are immune to Toxic and otherwise wall this set, such as Ferrothorn, Bronzong, Magearna, and Mega Scizor.
* Stone Edge hits Ho-Oh, which otherwise walls this set.

Set Details
========

* Maximum Attack investment with an Adamant nature is used to hit as hard as possible.
* Maximum Speed allows Solgaleo to outspeed most support Arceus formes as well as neutral-natured base 90 Speed Pokemon.

Usage Tips
========

* Bring Solgaleo into resisted hits from Pokemon that it can threaten out or that do not threaten it to gain Leftovers recovery and apply pressure.
* Try to catch Pokemon that Solgaleo cannot hit hard with its coverage, such as bulky Arceus formes, with Toxic on the switch in, as Solgaleo generally cannot stay in to tank powerful hits.
* Keep Solgaleo as healthy as possible, as it needs to be at near-full HP to check Geomancy Xerneas.
* Note that unlike the specially defensive set, this set should not switch into unresisted special attacks such as Judgment from Arceus-Water.
* Avoid burns and paralysis, as the former heavily reduce Solgaleo's ability to deal with Fairy-types and the latter takes away its ability to reliably use its coverage options and cripple support Arceus formes.

Team Options
========

* Other Pokemon on offense archetypes, such as Mega Salamence, appreciate Solgaleo's ability to check Geomancy Xerneas in a pinch; Mega Salamence also appreciates Solgaleo's ability to wear down support Arceus formes and other physical walls such as Lugia.
* Yveltal can switch into Primal Groudon and defensive variants can check Swords Dance Arceus-Ground, while Solgaleo deals with the Fairy-types that threaten it such as Arceus-Fairy and Xerneas.
* Arceus-Rock and Arceus-Fairy can deal with Mega Salamence and Yveltal, the former of which uses Solgaleo as setup fodder if it isn't carrying Toxic.
*Giratina-O and support Arceus formes can remove entry hazards for Solgaleo, which is especially important for this set as a few layers of Spikes will put it in range of +2 Xerneas's attacks; the former also deals with Ground-types that threaten Solgaleo such as Primal Groudon and Arceus-Ground.
* Deoxys-A can pressure support Arceus formes as well as Mega Gengar, which can both be frustrating for Solgaleo to deal with.

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Sunsteel Strike
move 2: Morning Sun
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Earthquake / Flare Blitz
item: Leftovers
ability: Full Metal Body
nature: Adamant
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Sunsteel Strike is the mandatory STAB move, allowing Solgaleo to check Xerneas and other Fairy-types as well as dealing decent damage to anything that doesn't resist it.
* Morning Sun provides reliable recovery and allows Solgaleo to continuously switch into resisted hits and recover the damage.
* Toxic allows Solgaleo to put Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, Giratina-O and support Arceus formes on a timer, which otherwise switch into Solgaleo with ease.
* Earthquake allows this set to have a shot at OHKOing Mega Gengar and a good chance to do so after Stealth Rock damage, and hits Primal Groudon and opposing Solgaleo for decent damage.
* Flare Blitz hits the Steel-types that otherwise wall Solgaleo, such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Bronzong, and Mega Scizor.

Set Details
========

* The HP and Special Defense investment allows Solgaleo to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Gengar's unboosted Hex.
* The Attack investment with an Adamant nature allows Solgaleo to OHKO Mega Gengar and makes it easier to deal with Ingrain Z-Geomancy Xerneas.
* Alternatively, if not running Earthquake, the Attack investment can be shifted to HP or Defense to allow Solgaleo to tank hits easier.
* Leftovers provides passive recovery.
* 8 EVs could be shifted to Speed to allow Solgaleo to outspeed most Primal Groudon variants.
* A Careful nature can be used to give Solgaleo a better chance to avoid the 2HKO from +2 Xerneas's Hidden Power Ground.

Usage Tips
========

* Switch Solgaleo into resisted hits, such as Xerneas's Moonblast, to fire off an attack or spread status.
* If facing teams built around Psychic Terrain, keep Solgaleo healthy as long as possible, as it does well against such teams, being able to check staple Pokemon such as Tapu Lele and Deoxys-A.
* Avoid burns by not switching Solgaleo directly into potential Will-O-Wisps or Scalds, as a burn is highly detrimental to its ability to check Xerneas.
* Be wary of opposing Mega Gengar / Xerneas cores, as getting trapped by the former makes it significantly more difficult to check the latter.

Team Options
========

* Teammates that appreciate this set's ability to easily switch into most Xerneas variants, such as Giratina-O, Yveltal, and bulky Arceus formes, make good partners.
* Likewise, setup sweepers that appreciate Solgaleo's ability to cripple bulky walls such as support Arceus formes and Giratina-O, such as Primal Groudon and Mega Salamence, pair well with it; the former is also able to switch into Primal Kyogre, which completely walls this set, and provides entry hazard support to further wear down walls.
* Zygarde-C is able to cover most of Solgaleo's offensive answers, such as Primal Groudon, Yveltal, Ho-Oh, and Swords Dance Arceus formes.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Using Normalium Z as the item and Splash/Sunsteel Strike/Earthquake as the moveset with Flame Charge or another coverage move in the final slot allows Solgaleo to function as a late-game sweeper in some scenarios, with Z-Splash boosting its Attack by 3 stages and Flame Charge giving it a Speed boost and picking off weakened threats at +3. This set functions best with Sticky Web, allowing Solgaleo to run another coverage move instead of Flame Charge.
* A Calm Mind set is an option to take advantage of Solgaleo's decent Special Attack; however, this leaves it unable to deal much damage before a boost and makes it harder for it to deal with Geomancy Xerneas.
* Thunder Wave can be used on the specially defensive set to emergency check Mega Salamence and other setup sweepers.
* Electrium Z with Wild Charge can be used to allow Solgaleo to OHKO Ho-Oh, KO Primal Kyogre and Yveltal after Stealth Rock damage, and 2HKO Arceus-Water, and also allows Solgaleo to run Flare Blitz in the last moveslot for maximum coverage.
* If used with Psychic Terrain support, running a set with Sunsteel Strike/Zen Headbutt/Work Up/coverage move and Psychium Z as the item is a possibility to deal major damage with a Psychic Terrain- and Work Up-boosted Zen Headbutt.
* A Choice Scarf set is an option to allow Solgaleo to revenge kill some Geomancy Xerneas variants as well as Mega Gengar, but is usually a liability, as being locked into a move can cause Solgaleo to become setup fodder.
* Assault Vest can be used to make it easier to take on the likes of Xerneas and Mega Gengar; if it's used, Wild Charge should be in the fourth moveslot.
* Expert Belt can be used to take advantage of Solgaleo's impressive coverage, and should be played similarly to the offensive utility set. However, it becomes setup fodder for the likes of Mega Salamence and Arceus-Ground.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Mega Gengar**: Mega Gengar can trap and eliminate specially defensive Solgaleo most of the time if carrying Shadow Ball, while it outright KOs offensive variants; however, it cannot switch directly into an attack.

**Dark-types**: Dark-types, such as Yveltal, Arceus-Dark, and Mega Sableye, can all take hits from Solgaleo and beat it one-on-one.

**Ground-types**: Ground-types, such as Arceus-Ground, Zygarde-C, and Primal Groudon, can easily take a hit from Solgaleo and proceed to Defog, set up entry hazards, or KO it with their respective STAB moves. However, Primal Groudon should be wary of switching into Earthquake.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types, such as Giratina-O, Lunala, Mega Gengar, and Arceus-Ghost, can all threaten or KO Solgaleo with their respective STAB moves.

**Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers are especially a problem for Solgaleo variants without Toxic, as Arceus-Ground and Mega Salamence can easily use them as setup fodder.

**Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh cannot be OHKOed by variants not running Stone Edge, as it takes a Wild Charge, and can proceed to OHKO Solgaleo with Sacred Fire.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre counters Solgaleo that are not running Wild Charge, as it resists Sunsteel Strike, can Rest off Toxic, and can 2HKO Solgaleo with its STAB moves.
 
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Z Splash should be more than OO, it's a very frightening wallbreaker. True it's a one shot deal, but so is Heal Block Palkia and to a lesser extent Geomancy Xerneas.
 
What would a Splash set look like?
From Other Options under OP:
using normalium z as the item and splash/sunsteel strike/earthquake/flame charge as the moveset allows solgaleo to function as a late-game sweeper in some scenarios, with z splash boosting its attack by 3 stages and flame charge giving it a speed boost while being able to pick off weakened threats at +3
Item: Normalium-Z (duh)
Nature: Jolly / Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

I'm not sure if Adamant is the slash or the preferred Nature, but from what I've read, most are Jolly. Some suggest Jolly with Stone Edge over Flame Charge, although I don't know how viable that is.
 
What would a Splash set look like?
Solgaleo @ Normalium Z
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant nature / Jolly Nature
- Splash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge / Stone Edge / Flare Blitz

Like heal block Palkia its supposed to smash holes in the opposing team for something else to clear up later. It doesn't sweep itswlf
 
Solgaleo @ Normalium Z
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant nature / Jolly Nature
- Splash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge / Stone Edge / Flare Blitz

Like heal block Palkia its supposed to smash holes in the opposing team for something else to clear up later. It doesn't sweep itswlf
ChrystalFalchion , as a strong proponent for the Z-Splash set, can you give me some insight on choosing between Adamant or Jolly for it? Since the Move Relearner will NOT relearn Splash if I change my mind and then want to go back, I get one chance to choose either Adamant or Jolly for my Cosmog.

Also, please specify if your choice depends on Flame Charge being on the moveset or not.

Input from OC or anybody else welcome too :)

Thank you!
 
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ChrystalFalchion , as a strong proponent for the Z-Splash set, can you give me some insight on choosing between Adamant or Jolly for it? Since the Move Relearner will NOT relearn Splash if I change my mind and then want to go back, I get one chance to choose either Adamant or Jolly for my Cosmog.

Also, please specify if your choice depends on Flame Charge being on the moveset or not.

Input from OC or anybody else welcome too :)

Thank you!
You're probably better off asking this in the Sun/Moon SQSA thread, but regardless Ill do my best.

Both natures have their pros and cons. Adamant lets you OHKO Specially Defensive Primal Groudon after Stealth Rock with a +3 Earthquake, while Jolly means you're guaranteed to outrun base 95s and most support Arceus formes. I prefer Adamant nature as you're not as dependant on getting the hazards up to score KOs but really it comes down to personal choic. I don't like Flame Charge - the coverage of Wild Charge Stone Edge or Flare Blitz is better than the Speed boost Imo. Z Splash Solgaleo is like Heal Block Palkia or Swords Dance Primal Groudon - it's meant to smash holes in the opposing team for something else to clean up later.
 
Slash Flare Blitz with Earthquake on the SpD set, since it lets Solgaleo OHKO/2HKO every niche steel that would otherwise wall it. Move Thunder Wave to OO since it has very specific uses and is usually not worth the moveslot.

Don't mention Choice Band on the AOA set; this is a set that functions because of its great SE coverage and doesn't function well when locked. Mention Xerneas specifically as a partner, since it checks Giratina-O / Zygarde / Dark types and appreciates damage on PDon and steels.

I'm unsure about the viability of Scarf, but I'll comment more after using it.

Mention Electrium-Z in OO for the AOA set. It gives Wild Charge the power needed to OHKO Ho-Oh, OHKO POgre / Yveltal after SR, and 2HKO Waterceus, easily freeing up the final moveslot for Flare Blitz.
 

shrang

General Kenobi
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From a small bureaucratic nitpick POV - you should probably remove the 8 Spe from the SpD set and put it somewhere else unless it actually outspeeds something that's not a speed creeping set itself. Speed creep on analyses should only be written if it outspeeds something at minimum or something at maximum to avoid us going back and revising the analyses over and over again as things speed creep each other.
 

shrang

General Kenobi
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You're not supposed to outspeed specific set EVs unless they are minimum or maximum purely because of the whole "speed creep -> change in analysis speeds" cycle until everyone gets to maximum. People can simply just add another 8 Spe EVs to RP Don and outspeed you again, then your analysis would just be outdated again. Just keep everything to min/max to keep it simple, if people want to speed creep that's their choice.
 
Every time I've tried to use this mon I ended up with the thought that it should be used as an offensive Fairy check and not a full on answer, something equivalent to a Mega Lucario (or Metagross in ORAS). While the SpD set CAN be a full answer, it is far too easily pressured by just about anything to work for a main set. Having to be at a certain HP in a meta where Xern clicks Moonblast until its checks are low and Yveltal is strong leaves you on a consistent backfoot just by being specially defensive. Its main niche is in an offensive team that cannot use Mega Lucario for w.e reason but still needs a less shaky Xerneas answer (Psychic Terrain for example) imo.

I'm gonna propose this for the main set to at least get proper discussion going:

[SET]
name: Offensive Utility
move 1: Sunsteel Strike
move 2: Morning Sun
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Flare Blitz / Stone Edge
item: Z-Item/Leftovers/Resist Berry/Iron Plate/Life Orb/SOMETHING
ability: Full Metal Body
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Zen Headbutt and Wild Charge in moves.

I'd probably have this set somewhere in the analysis, but i'm undecided where. The reason this has sat around for so long is because it is probably the most confusing mon to actually decide something on, and even QC are scratching their heads. Even if my set is disagreed with, it at least gets discussion and opinions going on Solgaleo.
 
Solgaleo @ Normalium Z
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant nature / Jolly Nature
- Splash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge / Stone Edge / Flare Blitz

Like heal block Palkia its supposed to smash holes in the opposing team for something else to clear up later. It doesn't sweep itswlf
Thanks for the reply! Sounds like something fun I can play with on battle spot around Christmastime :^)
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
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I'm very skeptical of the Choice Scarf set. Why exactly would I want to use a scarf on this Pokemon and what teams benefit from using such a set?

Being locked into Steel-type STAB or EQ on such a weak mon is bad for pretty much every matchup. Against HO you're giving setup ops and against balance you're giving Defog / Ho-Oh ops. This Pokemon lacks a spamable STAB and lacks the ability to pivot out with U-Turn.

For these reasons better justification for this set is needed before I can give a check.
 
I think Assault Vest is worth mentioning, either as its own set or as a slash on All Out Attacker. It lets Solgaleo function as a consistent Xerneas check (doesn't get beat down easily like the All Out Attacker set) while still preserving offensive pressure and coverage. Probably best suited to bulky offense.

I've been using this set pretty effectively. Functions very similarly to the All Out Attacker set, but EVed to outspeed standard Geo Xern and below, and in return takes hits a lot better.

[SET]
name: Assault Vest Pivot
move 1: Sunsteel Strike
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Flare Blitz
move 4: Wild Charge / Stone Edge
item: Assault Vest
ability: Full Metal Body
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 152 SpD / 104 Spe
 
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Six Trails

formerly Analytic_
^ You can't use Morning Sun with Assault Vest. Solgaleo fails to consistently check Xerneas without reliable recovery.
 
^ You can't use Morning Sun with Assault Vest. Solgaleo fails to consistently check Xerneas without reliable recovery.
Sorry, that was a typo, edited. And honestly, the no-recovery argument makes no sense to me given that plenty of great Xerneas checks - Pdon, Aegi, Bronzong, Klefki - also have no reliable recovery.

Standard Xerneas coming in on something it forces out has three options: Moonblast, Geomancy, or predict the switch with a coverage move (in this case Focus Blast). If it uses Geomancy, Solgaleo takes <50% from focus blast and OHKOs afters rocks. So Solgaleo can comfortably switch in on the turn Xern geos, or above 50% it can revenge kill. Pretty standard for a Xerneas answer. If Xern opts for the "beat-down" approach...

252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 152 SpD Assault Vest Solgaleo: 72-84 (17.3 - 20.2%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 152 SpD Assault Vest Solgaleo: 90-107 (21.6 - 25.7%) -- 1.5% chance to 4HKO

When the rocks-resistant AV Solgaleo takes <20% from Moonblast, that's a pretty consistent check. Yes, it can get worn down over the course of the match, but properly played offense or BO shouldn't have to switch it in 5 times, and usually also has a secondary Xerneas check.

fwiw here's how the other classic checks mentioned above take a moonblast.

252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 74-87 (21.8 - 25.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 88-104 (21.8 - 25.8%) -- 2% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 90-106 (28.3 - 33.4%) -- 96.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 61-72 (18.8 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

All take similar damage factoring lefties, and all but Pdon have less offensive utility than Solagelo. It's worth mentioning.
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
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Please move the 3rd set to a OO bullet: it has a lot of overlap with the second set. Being a bulky offensive Steel + reliable recovery is pretty much the entire point of running Sol. If you use Morning Sun, I feel that the slashing pretty much defaults to the first set. Because of this I would like to see the second set as this:

[SET]
name: Offensive Utility
move 1: Sunsteel Strike
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Flare Blitz / Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
ability: Full Metal Body
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Toxic bulky things and be able to smash most Toxic immunities. Some of the targets of Flare Blitz aren't commonly used with Xerenas, meaning that the recoil isn't as much of a concern (Lefties also helps). Toxic is actually enough for Ho-Oh, but Stone Edge is nice for being able to just outright KO it instead of trying to wear it down with Toxic. Not the best set, but this slashing and spread is what it takes to distance itself from the first set.

In the overview I would mention that having weaknesses to Ground-, Ghost-, and Dark-type attacks is a major defensive hinderance. I also feel that the bullet about dealing with psyspam should be removed. Tapu Lele HOs have multiple ways of getting around Sol (RP P Don, Arceus-Ground, Exca, Yveltal, other Darks) and they aren't the most stable of teams to begin with. C&C needs to list out all of the Ground-types which check Sol, and all of the Dark-types as well. Also there should be a section dedicated to Ghost-types, although Mega Gengar having its own section is fine.

Update these things and I will stamp.
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
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above average offensive stats allow it to run all out attacker sets
I'd word this so that it's singular, and instead focus on how its offensive stats allow it to meet damage needs against Pokemon such as Xerneas.

Sorry I missed it the first time, but support Arceus should be removed from C&C because they hate Toxic while Arceus-Water and Arceus-Dragon can't really touch Sol anyway.


QC: 1/3
 
Looks like we are finally onboard with this weird ass mon. I'm fine with no Morning Sun slashes on the second set as long as its noted in the Moves area which it is.

I assume the analysis will be prettied up before the GP stage so don't forget that.

QC 2/3
 

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