Something Borrowed

jackm

jackm

Approved by Eevee General and Snaquaza

Something Borrowed​
What is it?

Something Borrowed is a metagame in which each Pokemon borrows one move from each teammate adjacent to it in the team lineup to occupy its 3rd and 4th moveslots. The mechanic by which this "borrowing" occurs is as follows: the 3rd and 4th slots of each Pokemon's movepool slide to occupy the same slot in the movepool of the Pokemon to the left and right in the teambuilder, respectively. This is a change which is implemented by the coding of the metagame, as opposed to by the builder of the team (i.e. the builder of the team should put the moves to be borrowed in the lender's moveslots, as opposed to in the borrower's moveslots.)

For instance, this is a graphic that illustrates a sample team (courtesty of Snaq). The color of the move represents which Pokemon's moveset it comes from in the teambuilder (so Bisharp would be put into the teambuilder with the moveset Knock Off/Iron Head/Grass Knot/Sucker Punch). The column represents the Pokemon's moveset once it enters battle (so Bisharp would enter battle with the moveset Knock Off/Iron Head/Dragon Dance/Close Combat).

oVUWJXY.png


Notes:
  • Team slots loop around, so the 1st team slot and the 6th team slot are considered to be adjacent.
  • Move illegalities are still in place even if you end up passing the move, so for instance a teammate cannot borrow Defog from a Poison Heal Gliscor.

Banlist:

Standard OU banlist
Smeargle

Playable?

This hasn't been coded yet, but you can play it in custom game by inputting the new moves directly into the recipient's moveset. Go nuts.
 
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This looks a lot like sketchmons in redards that dumping things like Espeed and Quiver Dance on stupid megas would be borderline broken (look at what that team has for DD Espeed Mega alt lol). Smeargle also looks stupidly good from the get go, it's never really gonna be a wasted moveslot, it can pass spore and still use dark void or something, and fits nicely on straight HO teams. Sounds interesting just a bit unbalanced on paper tbh
 
Love the idea of this metagame. Smeargle seems stupid though because you can give 2 pokemon in your team every move they want and still get some useful moves like Taunt, Rocks and Spore in return.
Also BlizzardBuffalo123 this is just a sample team so I don't think it matters too much. Also since you run DD I think it's fine to give up Sucker for coverage
 
BlizzardBuffalo123 said:
I like the bisharp idea a lot but I would get rid of iron head or knock off for sucker punch
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Megazard said:
This looks a lot like sketchmons in redards that dumping things like Espeed and Quiver Dance on stupid megas would be borderline broken (look at what that team has for DD Espeed Mega alt lol). Smeargle also looks stupidly good from the get go, it's never really gonna be a wasted moveslot, it can pass spore and still use dark void or something, and fits nicely on straight HO teams. Sounds interesting just a bit unbalanced on paper tbh
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FYI that team is just an example to explain the mechanic. It isn't actually meant to serve as an legitimate competitive team.

More on topic, this is definitely going to be a metagame where we need to take careful measures to prevent overpowering moves from reducing it to brokenness (like, as you said, Sketchmons). However, I'm hesitant to quickban anything before we get some tests in, considering this is playable through custom game.
 
I like this metagame. However, Heatran+MegaZard Y+Hoopa-U looks kinda scary. Let me just see if I can make a decent chart.

Hoopa-U |Heatran |Mega Charizard Y
Hyperspace-Fury |Lava Plume |Fire Blast
Drain Punch |Protect |Focus Blast
Filler |Taunt |Earth Power
Magma Storm |Roost |Filler

Hoopa-U Stallbreaks, Heatran walls, while Mega Charizard Y is a wallbreaker. 'Nuff said.
 
Pokemon with two modes of recovery look really valuable for donating healing to allies while retaining something for themselves.

The Latis provide Roost+Recover (Latias throws in Wish)

Togekiss, Scizor, Volcarona, Moltrs, Butterfree, Beautifly, Venomoth and Unfezant all provide Roost+Morning Sun

Farfetch'd, Illumise, Salamence, Togekiss, Unfezant and Xatu provide Wish+Roost

Chansey, Togekiss and Clefable all provide Softboiled+Wish

Exeggutor, Clefable, Illumise and Umbreon all provide Moonlight+Wish

Espeon, Togekiss and Unfezant provide Wish+Morning Sun

Dustox, Noivern, Illumise and Volbeat all provide Roost+Moonlight

Chimecho and Latias provide Wish+Recover

Celebi and Cradily provide Synthesis+Recover

Exeggutor, Florges, and Leafeon provide Synthesis+Wish

Vespiquen provides Roost+Heal Order, though that would require running Vespiquen...

Gogoat provides Milk Drink+Synthesis

---

I'm pretty sure I'm missing combinations, but working through this is giving me a headache. The main thing I'm taking away from it is that Togekiss, Clefable and Chansey are especially good donors in this regard. I can also see stuff like Noivern donating Boomburst to Sylveon, Mega Gardevoir, or Aurorus while donating Roost to a bulky 'mon like Tyranitar or Goodra that normally lacks recovery.

Changing teammates in a team is going to be hard. Teambuilding in general is going to be complicated.

I like it.
 
This looks fun and broken! I like broken, though. However, the banlist would have to get extended to include things like Prankster (because you can use stupid stuff like spore) and perhaps the -ate abilities (e-speed n_n).
This might be fun if it was a triples metagame and the moves that were switched were whoever was next to you on the field. Just a thought. Also, this makes lots of things not quite as broken, such as Prankster.
 
VeryPinkPancakes said:
This looks fun and broken! I like broken, though. However, the banlist would have to get extended to include things like Prankster (because you can use stupid stuff like spore) and perhaps the -ate abilities (e-speed n_n).
This might be fun if it was a triples metagame and the moves that were switched were whoever was next to you on the field. Just a thought. Also, this makes lots of things not quite as broken, such as Prankster.
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The fundamental ruleset isn't going to change from where it is. This is a singles metagame with move switching at the teambuilding level; if you want one more similar to the one you described you should submit it lol. Just saying.

I think a key in this metagame is going to be finding Pokemon with great moves that they don't normally use for one reason or another. Things like Sucker Punch from Latios and Close Combat from Keldeo are examples off of the top of my head.

[EDIT]: Shit, I meant Latias. Thanks for picking that off.
 
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[/quote=jackm] The fundamental ruleset isn't going to change from where it is. This is a singles metagame with move switching at the teambuilding level; if you want one more similar to the one you described you should submit it lol. Just saying.

I think a key in this metagame is going to be finding Pokemon with great moves that they don't normally use for one reason or another. Things like Sucker Punch from Latios and Close Combat from Keldeo are examples off of the top of my head.[/quote]

Lol, maybe I should submit it o3o. You never know.

Also, yeah, that would be key. Also, things like Victini giving all fire types a move better than Fire Blast (Searing Shot) would be key. (Signature moves are good in this meta). EDIT: This part deleted because I read Topsy-Turvy.

edit: when someone liked a really old post in this thread, I realized this quote failed xd fixed.
 
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Only Latias gets sucker but your point is valid. Boom burst might be op, but only time will tell.
Also run blue flare br0.
 
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See, the problem with Boomburst is that you don't have very good Pokemon if you use it. Honestly, the only two users that are halfway decent that aren't neutered without it are Flygon and Noivern. I can see Noivern being popular though. It has blazing fast speed so you might be able to give it some nice support options. I can't help but think it has most of the moves it needs for attacking.

Flygon might also see some use. It does get Defog as a utility move it can give to its other partner though. I don't know what else it can use though...
 
They both also get u-turn and roost, so at worst they give your nuke free switch ins. Plus physical flygon is probably its best set so losing out on boomburst is irrelevant. Swellow can also give it and clean up frailer teams with the guts set while sylveon smashes every wall. Yeah... Not sure if I'm looking forward to tfacing that.
 
Klingklang + Megazor would leave an option, shift gear or gear grind? I'd go for the latter, that plus SD would wreck.
 
I've been dicking around in the teambuilder for a bit, and there are a couple of highlights I want to mention:
  • Manaphy is a great addition, being able to lend Heart Swap to Pranksters and Tail Glow to nukes. Not much to say here, I just really like those two.
  • Latias is notable for being able to provide recovery for both adjacents and itself and for having Sucker Punch. I'm really liking the prospect of pairing this with Tyranitar or Mega Gyarados, as it can give them Sucker Punch (or recovery, I guess) and mooch off of their awesome special movepools.
  • Lucario has a crapton of awesome tools on both offenses, which allows it to use some of them and then pass off the notable others to partners (if you run special NP Lucario, you can get awesome coverage from your partners and give them Extremespeed/CC/Swords Dance/goddamn whatever). Jirachi could be a nice partner, giving Lucario Doom Desire (oh god the horror) in exchange for coverage.
 
How does Ditto work? It only knows Transform, so its third and fourth moveslots are empty. Do the Pokemon adjacent to Ditto receive empty slots or do they keep an additional move they learn legally?

Anyway, this is a great idea for a meta; a simple concept yet adds tons of variety. Here are some teams that should be pretty solid, although they're posted as they are after the move swaps, not as they should be in the teambuilder if you were to actually use them.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Taunt
- Defog
- Synthesis

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 68 SpA / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Drain Punch

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Knock Off
- Close Combat

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Overheat
- Draco Meteor

The premise is that Mega Pinsir is probably broken. The fact that it's next to Slowbro is just what ended up having to happen after the rest of the team was built but you honestly don't need much else besides the first three slots. Dragonite was chosen purely to support Pinsir and Serperior. Because of those two it didn't need to be a setup mon and because of the defensive core it didn't need to be bulky, plus it wallbreaks for Pinsir nicely. This might not even be an improvement over the regular CB set but I'm not using Zygarde for Espeed + Draco Meteor. Serp is pretty obvious, although it's likely not as amazing as you'd think. Honestly Dnite + Serp could be swapped out for two other things, but although Serp can be dealed with by a lot of things it applies nice pressure and HP Ground OHKOs fully SpD Heatran after a Leaf Storm/Draco + rocks. Zapdos is the mega Pinsir counter and is EVd as such. I tried to incorporate a spinner instead of a Defogger but the team wasn't too solid, and it's ok because Slowbro is a good rocker and the Heatran set is pretty self-sufficient. This team struggles with KyuB and it's slightly passive, so if you aren't careful things can set up on you, but otherwise this should be some fairly good hyper balance or whatever you want to call it (hyper balance doesn't even make sense but whatever).

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Fake Out

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Acupressure

Slaking @ Eject Button
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Skill Swap

Thundurus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Topsy-Turvy
- Ice Beam

Malamar @ Red Card
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Transform

This team is bad and dumb, and even though I post cores like this everywhere it still shows how so many metas unleash so much monstrous trash like this. If it isn't obvious, the entire goal of the team is to sweep with Acupressure Goth after it's trapped something that has Truant. Medicham is by far the best mon with Acupressure, and I didn't know how Ditto worked so I just put Fake Out on it and Destiny Bond on the Malamar. Goth set is pretty obvious. It's not guaranteed, but you should Acupressure some Speed, and if not you're going to get defenses and/or Evasion, making you incredibly hard to revenge kill. Eject Button is nice because you choose what you switch into if it activates. Skill Swap Slaking + U-turn is actually pretty nice because you're guaranteed momentum or the game, nearly. Thundurus and Ditto are there purely to deal with opposing setup because Slaking Goth loses versus most setup things if Slaking isn't in. Malamar is of course only there for Topsy-Turvy and Taunt Red Card with max bulk is there to again, deter opposing setup. The team had to be built this way because if you're not going for the Goth Sweep every game then Goth is totally useless so you don't want to throw away a teamslot like that. And again, this team is bad, but there you go.
 
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MattL said:
How does Ditto work? It only knows Transform, so its third and fourth moveslots are empty. Do the Pokemon adjacent to Ditto receive empty slots or do they keep an additional move they learn legally?
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Since Ditto has only one move, it will obtain a move from both adjacent mons, who'll be stuck with three moves.
 
I feel like balance will be very strong in this meta, as plenty of offensive 'mons have solid support movepools to shore up somewhat underwhelming defensive 'mons which often have the movepool to fill coverage gaps in offensive 'mons... you get the picture.

I also agree that Mega Pinsir is potentially broken -- it was broken in Sketchmons, and the only additional restriction on getting it Extreme speed here is that you have to run something like Dragonite, Raikou, Suicune, Togekiss, or Entei -- not exactly bad 'mons to have on your team. It's not like it's not a team player, either -- Pinsir has some moves that are good that it doesn't use, namely Bulk Up, Stealth Rock, Stone Edge, and Storm Throw. Something that comes to mind is a Breloom+Mega Pinsir Core, where Breloom receives Storm Throw to wallbreak most things that don't resist its STABs, while Pinsir (inheriting Espeed from something else) runs Spore+SD+Espeed+Coverage to get setup opportunities and blow up things that resist Breloom's coverage or outspeed it.

Overall, this sounds really cool to teambuild for and play; look forward to it!
 
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