Tournament SPL XI: OU Discussion

Jaajgko

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Didn’t have time to watch the games, what’s the dugtrio band spread needed to beat offensive Clefable 1v1? Also what set are people running with band, do they drop reversal because they are no longer can rely on sash?
With 96 HP and 148 SpD it takes a Modest Life Orb Moonblast from Clef as well as a Mach Punch from Guts Conkeldurr. Then there are two possible speed creeps :
just enough speed for Jolly Exca :
Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 96 HP / 156 Atk / 148 SpD / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Memento / Stealth Rock

or just enough speed for Obstagoon :
Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 96 HP / 96 Atk / 148 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Reversal / two aformentioned

even without being at 1 HP reversal still does good damage as Dug OHKOs Obstagoon with 83 or less HP left (=~35%).
96+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Reversal (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Obstagoon: 416-492 (127.2 - 150.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I've also made spreads for Clef and Toxapex that allow them to 1v1 Dug without needing a Shed Shell which I could post later if some1 is interested
You can obviously try to speed creep other Dugs by adding 4 to 20 speed EVs. Max speed isn't really appealing with the HP and SpD EVs as Dug needs good attack investment to not get PP stalled by Calm Wish Clef.
 
With 96 HP and 148 SpD it takes a Modest Life Orb Moonblast from Clef as well as a Mach Punch from Guts Conkeldurr. Then there are two possible speed creeps :
just enough speed for Jolly Exca :
Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 96 HP / 156 Atk / 148 SpD / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Memento / Stealth Rock

or just enough speed for Obstagoon :
Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 96 HP / 96 Atk / 148 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Reversal / two aformentioned

even without being at 1 HP reversal still does good damage as Dug OHKOs Obstagoon with 83 or less HP left (=~35%).
96+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Reversal (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Obstagoon: 416-492 (127.2 - 150.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I've also made spreads for Clef and Toxapex that allow them to 1v1 Dug without needing a Shed Shell which I could post later if some1 is interested
You can obviously try to speed creep other Dugs by adding 4 to 20 speed EVs. Max speed isn't really appealing with the HP and SpD EVs as Dug needs good attack investment to not get PP stalled by Calm Wish Clef.
Thanks for including the speed creeps and being specific, appreciate it bro
 
Intended this to be a discussion point on Vish, was told it belonged here. From the usage stats:
| 4 | Seismitoad | 25 | 41.67% | 36.00% |
| 36 | Dracovish | 1 | 1.67% | 0.00% |
There's a reason no-one is bringing Vish rn. Toad is getting a ton of usage. For reference, Ditto's usage in the Dmax meta was 42.62249% in the high ladder (Yes I know tour=\=ladder but still). Also, to whoever says Toad has uses outside of checking Vish, only Gengar and Mandibuzz have a lower win rate out of mons used in 5 or more teams. Turns out, having Toxic is ok but every other team has Clefable and Corviknight, who both do not care. Also, having a rock setter that isn't immediately forced out by most removers is nice. From Toad's moves:
| 3 | Toxic | 7 | 28.00% | 14.29% |
Ouch.
On a more positive note, just for fun, here are the top 5 winrate mons out of those with 5 or more uses:
| 18 | Togekiss | 5 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 15 | Rotom-Wash | 7 | 11.67% | 71.43% |
| 13 | Ferrothorn | 9 | 15.00% | 66.67% |
| 8 | Kommo-o | 17 | 28.33% | 64.71% |
| 9 | Excadrill | 15 | 25.00% | 60.00% |
Some low-key performers to keep an eye on:
| 27 | Rhyperior | 2 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Obstagoon | 2 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Cloyster | 2 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 27 | Cinderace | 2 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 36 | Bisharp | 1 | 1.67% | 100.00% |
| 36 | Weezing-Galar | 1 | 1.67% | 100.00% |
| 36 | Gyarados | 1 | 1.67% | 100.00% |
| 36 | Jellicent | 1 | 1.67% | 100.00% |
And then vs now:
Week 1: 8 | Dugtrio | 8 | 26.67% | 62.50% |
Week 2: 7 | Dugtrio | 7 | 23.33% | 42.86% |
I saw some Shed Shell mons in Week 2 methinks.
 
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Rotom-W is an interesting case since it can afford to not use Heavy Duty Boots, unlike Rotom-H. Leftovers work fine, but I find Trick sets very threatening since there's really nothing safe against it. The few Rotom-W switchins hate being tricked and there are no megas / Z moves to block it. Huge pain in the ass to deal with.

Togekiss really only excels against slow builds, it doesn't have the speed or bulk to deal with offense. Tour meta is aways slower though so Togekiss will naturally perform better. Scarf Trick Togekiss seems disgusting on paper.
Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
-Trick
-Air Slash
-Dazzling Gleam
-Flamethrower

Cloyster is deadly since most scarfers aren't very fast rn. If Conk isn't around it can 6-0 a lot of teams, especially if it's King's Rock.

Hydreigon is insanely good and always puts in work. LO NP 3 attacks is the best set imo since it needs the extra power to break Mandibuzz and fairies with Draco and Flash Cannon, respectively.

Aromatherapy seems pretty good on whatever can fit it since Thunder Wave is a bitch to play around. Likewise, Toxic Spikes are very frustrating if you don't have a way of removing them so Aromatherapy helps there too.

I don't understand the sudden boner for Kommo-o. It's pretty decent as a pivot I guess, but the bulky rocks set loses to most of the meta's best mons and is complete status bait. Iron Defense + Body Press is a neat tech. Clangorous Soul sets are very strong and really difficult to stop once they get going.

Rhyperior doesn't make any sense to me. What does it even do? Obviously it hits fairly hard but what is it supposed to check/counter?

I honestly think we'll see some DragMag return in the coming weeks. More specifically, DragDug. The best Dragon-types rn, namely Hydreigon, Dragapult, and Kommo-O, are only stopped by stuff like Toxapex and fat fairies, and banded (or other variants of) Dugtrio has already proven itself to beat them reliably. Good luck stopping a Clangerous Soul-boosted Kommo-O when Clef is dead. Steels don't threaten them much anyway since they all have either fire coverage or fighting coverage, if not both. Conkeldurr and Aegislash also appreciate removal of fairies and Toxapex, respectively.

Fat Banded Dugtrio sets are probably the best option but max speed could be worth it for hazard stack if someone's really convinced for some reason that their opponent will bring Cinderace. Dugtrio's help against hazard control stops with those and Excadrill since all of the Defoggers kick its ass.
 

Patolegend!

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I don't understand the sudden boner for Kommo-o. It's pretty decent as a pivot I guess, but the bulky rocks set loses to most of the meta's best mons and is complete status bait. Iron Defense + Body Press is a neat tech. Clangorous Soul sets are very strong and really difficult to stop once they get going.
I think Kommo-o, while not being particulary brilliant at anything, has seen a boon with STAB Body Press and Throat Spray this gen that give it a certain unpredictability.

The variety it brings to the table is pretty threatening in and of itself. While not being incredible at any in particular, it can fulfil a pretty wide variety of roles, either defensive (but still with a powerful attack) or offensive, with possibility of hitting either on the physical (Bulk Up, Dragon Dance, Clangorous Soul, Belly Drum) or special (Clangorous Soul) side. It does all of the above well, and its role can be hidden with team composition by using other Stealth Rockers and other means.

For example, in the following game: [BIG] soulgazer vs Eo [CRY]

At team preview, on either team, are you looking at SD Exca and Rocks Kommo-o, or Rocks Exca and setup Kommo-o? Physical or special? Rocks Clef and overloaded offensive sweepers?
 
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Rotom-W is an interesting case since it can afford to not use Heavy Duty Boots, unlike Rotom-H. Leftovers work fine, but I find Trick sets very threatening since there's really nothing safe against it. The few Rotom-W switchins hate being tricked and there are no megas / Z moves to block it. Huge pain in the ass to deal with
The stats seem to back that up. Although, keep an eye on the Nasty Plot set.
| 1 | Trick | 4 | 57.14% | 75.00% |
| 1 | Volt Switch | 4 | 57.14% | 50.00% |
| 3 | Discharge | 3 | 42.86% | 66.67% |
| 3 | Thunder Wave | 3 | 42.86% | 66.67% |
| 5 | Hydro Pump | 2 | 28.57% | 50.00% |
| 6 | Nasty Plot | 1 | 14.29% | 100.00% |
| 6 | Substitute | 1 | 14.29% | 100.00% |
| 6 | Dark Pulse | 1 | 14.29% | 100.00% |
Togekiss really only excels against slow builds, it doesn't have the speed or bulk to deal with offense. Tour meta is aways slower though so Togekiss will naturally perform better. Scarf Trick Togekiss seems disgusting on paper.
Looks like Sub Nasty Plot was the preferred set actually.
| 1 | Air Slash | 5 | 100.00% | 100.00% |
| 2 | Substitute | 4 | 80.00% | 100.00% |
| 3 | Nasty Plot | 3 | 60.00% | 100.00% |
| 4 | Flamethrower | 2 | 40.00% | 100.00% |
| 5 | Ancient Power | 1 | 20.00% | 100.00% |
Hydreigon is insanely good and always puts in work. LO NP 3 attacks is the best set imo since it needs the extra power to break Mandibuzz and fairies with Draco and Flash Cannon, respectively.
Actually, the stats say Hydreigon has massively underperformed.
| 5 | Hydreigon | 20 | 33.33% | 40.00% |
Going into more detail, lead Hydreigon's stats:
3 | Hydreigon | 7 | 11.67% | 28.57% |
So it has massively suffered as a lead. Move stats:
| 4 | Draco Meteor | 7 | 35.00% | 57.14% |
| 4 | U-turn | 7 | 35.00% | 14.29% |
| 6 | Thunder Wave | 4 | 20.00% | 25.00% |
So lesson learnt, scarf Hydreigon is not a pivot, and locking yourself into Twave is not great. I wish there were item stats, but I guess there's no reliable way to determine items. You're right on Draco Meteor though.
Aromatherapy seems pretty good on whatever can fit it since Thunder Wave is a bitch to play around. Likewise, Toxic Spikes are very frustrating if you don't have a way of removing them so Aromatherapy helps there too.
Clefable:
| 4 | Aromatherapy | 8 | 21.05% | 62.50% |
You might be on to something there. Though Clefable is the only user of it ATM.
I don't understand the sudden boner for Kommo-o. It's pretty decent as a pivot I guess, but the bulky rocks set loses to most of the meta's best mons and is complete status bait. Iron Defense + Body Press is a neat tech. Clangorous Soul sets are very strong and really difficult to stop once they get going.
I think Kommo-o, while not being particulary brilliant at anything, has seen a boon with STAB Body Press and Throat Spray this gen that give it a certain unpredictability.

The variety it brings to the table is pretty threatening in and of itself. While not being incredible at any in particular, it can fulfil a pretty wide variety of roles, either defensive (but still with a powerful attack) or offensive, with possibility of hitting either on the physical (Bulk Up, Dragon Dance, Clangorous Soul, Belly Drum) or special (Clangorous Soul) side. It does all of the above well, and its role can be hidden with team composition by using other Stealth Rockers and other means.
In fact, 0 Clangourous Soul sets so far. The only setup seen has been Iron Defense and Bulk Up, both used once.
| 1 | Body Press | 12 | 70.59% | 66.67% |
| 1 | Stealth Rock | 12 | 70.59% | 66.67% |
| 3 | Earthquake | 8 | 47.06% | 62.50% |
| 4 | Protect | 7 | 41.18% | 57.14% |
| 5 | Taunt | 2 | 11.76% | 0.00% |
| 6 | Iron Defense | 1 | 5.88% | 100.00% |
| 6 | Iron Head | 1 | 5.88% | 100.00% |
| 6 | Bulk Up | 1 | 5.88% | 0.00% |
Body Press is decent as hell. And having a decent Rock setter that beats Excadrill is nice. (Cough-Toad is garbage-Cough)
Rhyperior doesn't make any sense to me. What does it even do? Obviously it hits fairly hard but what is it supposed to check/counter?
Apparently it sets Rocks sometimes. Though it has only used 3 attacks so far.
| 1 | Rock Blast | 2 | 100.00% | 100.00% |
| 2 | Earthquake | 1 | 50.00% | 100.00% |
| 2 | Stealth Rock | 1 | 50.00% | 100.00% |
I honestly think we'll see some DragMag return in the coming weeks. More specifically, DragDug. The best Dragon-types rn, namely Hydreigon, Dragapult, and Kommo-O, are only stopped by stuff like Toxapex and fat fairies, and banded (or other variants of) Dugtrio has already proven itself to beat them reliably. Good luck stopping a Clangerous Soul-boosted Kommo-O when Clef is dead. Steels don't threaten them much anyway since they all have either fire coverage or fighting coverage, if not both. Conkeldurr and Aegislash also appreciate removal of fairies and Toxapex, respectively.
Interestingly, Dragapult-Dugtrio has a lower winrate than both individually. And only one person has bought Hydreigon-Dugtrio, losing.
Dugtrio's Dragon teammates:
| 1 | Dragapult | 9 | 60.00% | 44.44% |
| 7 | Kommo-o | 3 | 20.00% | 66.67% | (though very little setup remember)
| 17 | Dracovish | 1 | 6.67% | 0.00% |
| 17 | Hydreigon | 1 | 6.67% | 0.00% |
Hmm.
Anyway, the most successful cores in SPL so far (cores with 5 or more uses only):
| 26 | Kommo-o / Excadrill | 7 | 11.67% | 85.71% |
| 35 | Rotom-Wash / Clefable | 6 | 10.00% | 83.33% |
| 41 | Corviknight / Excadrill | 5 | 8.33% | 80.00% |
| 41 | Clefable / Conkeldurr | 5 | 8.33% | 80.00% |
| 11 | Clefable / Kommo-o | 12 | 20.00% | 66.67% |
| 35 | Clefable / Toxapex | 6 | 10.00% | 66.67% |
Kommo-o cores top tier.
----------------------------------------New post below to avoid double posting because no-one is posting--------------------------------------
People seem to like me picking through the stats, so I'm going to take a look at what's changed in Week 3. Highlights include:
Toad's standard set being possibly flawed, and the alternatives.
Which Rotom-form to NOT lead with.
Which move Mandibuzz really should be running but isn't.
Dracovish still can't catch a break.
So we get into Week 3 and Toad is now the fifth most-used mon, but its winrate has gone even further down. The stats seem to suggest a solution however...
| 3 | Toxic | 11 | 35.48% | 9.09% |
Lol. Lesson: don't run Toxic on Toad. The overall winrate of Toxic has somehow got even worse since last week. I think it comes down to many of the mons that switch-in on Toad not caring about Toxic. For instance, all Clefs, Corvs, Pexes and Ferros are flat-out immune to it (in fact, Clef wants to be poisoned). The defensive variants of these mons all come in basically for free on Toad and do some serious damage in the hazard wars, so letting them in literally for free can't be good. Hence again why Toad is a bad Stealth Rocker. Not to mention Aegi, offensive Clef/Corv, and the resurgent Gengar who all do some serious damage to your team if given a free switch. Looking at Toad's Ground STABs gives an idea though.
| 4 | Earth Power | 7 | 22.58% | 57.14% |
| 4 | Earthquake | 7 | 22.58% | 14.29% |
Earth Power on Toad seems like an odd choice but firstly it lets you run Bold rather than Relaxed, which gives Toad a much higher Speed, and secondly since everything is PhyDef right now, Earth Power lets you hit harder overall than Earthquake. An interesting idea to solve some of Toad's issues. Finally:
| 6 | Grass Knot | 2 | 6.45% | 50.00% |
| 7 | Power Whip | 1 | 3.23% | 100.00% |
| 7 | Rest | 1 | 3.23% | 0.00% |
| 7 | Protect | 1 | 3.23% | 0.00% |
Grass lure coverage seems like an interesting idea, as does Protect to scout Choiced mons. Rest.... I'm not seeing it given Toad is passive enough as it is. Stick to Wish passing. But why run Toad at all when:
| 31 | Dracovish | 3 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
Ouch. And I don't think Toad has had a hand in any of those.
Now for a look at the leads. I mentioned Hydreigon has been doing terrible as a lead, but who else is doing well?
Good leads from within the top 10 most used leads (3 or more uses as a lead, relative to their normal winrate):
Dragapult | Lead with 14/49 times | 48.98% | 57.14% |
Mandibuzz | 9/33 | 42.42% | 55.56% |
Seismitoad | 9/31 | 35.48% | 44.44% |
Clefable | 8/61 | 52.46% | 75.00% |
Rotom-Wash | 6/9 | 66.67% | 66.67% |
Toxapex | 4/14 | 57.14% | 100.00% |
Sylveon | 3/13 | 38.46% | 66.67% |
Ditto | 3/4 | 25.00% | 33.33% |
Bad leads:
Hydreigon | 9/26 | 46.15% | 22.22% |
Rotom-Heat | 6/30 | 33.33% | 16.67% |
Kommo-o | 3/25 | 52.00% | 33.33% |
Lesson learnt. Rotom-H is not a lead, Rotom-W is.
Now for a couple of mons I'd like to highlight:
Buzz is primarily a check to various Ghosts and Dark mons that can Defog. But it has used the following set for most of SPL:
| 1 | U-turn | 27 | 81.82% | 44.44% |
| 2 | Knock Off | 26 | 78.79% | 38.46% |
| 3 | Roost | 20 | 60.61% | 40.00% |
| 4 | Taunt | 9 | 27.27% | 33.33% |
So it's not actually Defogging, it's just being an annoying wall/pivot. However Mandibuzz has a below-average winrate despite being the 4th most used mon, suggesting it's kinda being mediocre in that role. But when it does actually get to clear rocks...
| 5 | Defog | 8 | 24.24% | 62.50% |
This in theory has also the effect of freeing Corv from the duty of Defogger, so it can run its balance-busting Bulk Up set.
Corv's overall winrate: 45.83%
| 4 | Brave Bird | 13 | 27.08% | 69.23% |
| 5 | Bulk Up | 11 | 22.92% | 63.64% |
Though it doesn't seem to be working that way in practice.
| 73 | Mandibuzz / Corviknight | 4 | 4.44% | 25.00% |
The moral is: Don't stack Electric weaknesses.
| 305 | Mandibuzz / Corviknight / Dugtrio | 1 | 1.11% | 100.00% |
Unless that. #ArenaTrapFairAndBalanced
This guy has been quietly ripping the game apart.
| 1 | Iron Head | 7 | 58.33% | 85.71% |
| 2 | Shadow Sneak | 5 | 41.67% | 100.00% |
| 3 | Shadow Claw | 4 | 33.33% | 75.00% |
| 4 | Swords Dance | 3 | 25.00% | 100.00% |
Yep. Aegi at +2 or even +4 be fair and balanced. It's like Mimikyu if Mimikyu had more than one set, could take more than one hit setting up and not get walled to hell by half of OU. This time I have replays!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-472775
Hydreigon drops to a mispredict, and then Aegi 6-0s the rest.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-473410
Both players bring Aegi but xray's is simply used to tank hits for its teammates and doesn't even get to attack. Compare pokeaim's, which is is the last mon standing despite being 1 against 4.
Also:
| 7 | King's Shield | 1 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
Who needs to go back into Shield Form anyway?
Clefable:
| 5 | Trick | 8 | 13.11% | 75.00% |
Rotom-H:
| 4 | Trick | 11 | 36.67% | 54.55% |
Rotom-W:
| 1 | Trick | 5 | 55.56% | 80.00% |
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-473302
See if you can keep up with who's holding what in this replay, as Clefable picks and chooses the item it wants while crippling half a team, leading to a 6-0 wipeout.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-472704
A similar theme. Clefable is even able to evade trapping with Trick.
Finally just one more fun replay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-473349
Someone actually brings Clangourous Soul Kommo-o and reckons Cloyster should be able to set up and sweep. But one little Mimikyu has other ideas... Also BU Corv takes PP stalling and famous last stands to a whole new level. While paralysed.
 
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Eo Ut Mortus

Elodin Smells
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Rotom-Fan is one of two hard counters to Mold Breaker Excadrill (the other being Corviknight), and as with the other Rotom forms, it also checks BU Corv/Togekiss. Flying is also a good offensive STAB, and Rotom's additional coverage means that its counters share minimal overlap with the pool of Togekiss/Corviknight counters. Christo actually used this before me in his last week's game, which is where I got the idea.
 
Yeah, Christo just got unlucky enough to switch it in on a Scarf Aegi (!!) that was using Head Smash, while Eo got nailed by a Sleep Talk mon getting lucky.
Also, my favourite replay of SPL so far:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-474884
It has it all: Wild tech, Toad being useless (especially with Toxic), trapping, and BU Corv bringing home the goods from a lost-looking position.
Talah forgot to check Corv's niche sets, someone had used Double Dance Corv earlier and lost. The warning signs were there and it did take 9 turns to set up...
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475196
Christo pushing Shell Smashless Cloyster:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475305
Rain. EDIT: More rain:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475121
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475152
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475131
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475370
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475313
...Whatever the hell this is:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475137
Well, the semblance of a Clef-lead balance friendly meta is starting to crumble. And in its place is our Lord Dracovish.
ALL HAIL THE VISH!
Oh, a stat? Ok. Ferro's appearances on Rain continue to make him the low-key standout of the tour thusfar:
| 12 | Ferrothorn | 26 | 17.33% | 61.54% |
 
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I also don't fully understand Eo's rotom-F. What does it do, what's his niche?
Le budget Zapdos has arrived.

Also people keep bringing that one rain team because it just auto wins so many matchups. Loads of people have been skimping on rain/vish counters and trying to bring fancy teams/random offence. Rain tends to just run over those teams, + that team doesn't even do that badly vs standard balance.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475313
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475370
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475131

All these games were pretty much auto-wins for the rain team ^.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475121

Teal got lucky here with a flinch but I don't know the roll ^.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-475152

The standard rain team 6-0'd a team with seismitoad^.

Edit: I agree Jayde Insult was probably the best game of the week, replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-474884

I thought Insult played really well around the midgame getting his Sirfetched in to break + conditioning in order to get the paralysis on to Jayde's Dragapult. Insult's Rotom was therefore able to do a lot of work this game despite being completely walled by Jayde's Seismitoad. However, Insult's Rotom was also his only real check to bulk up Corviknight, but due to the aforementioned fact that it is completely walled by Jayde's Seismitoad, he decided to let it die which proved costly for him in the end.
 
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Jordy

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I don't understand all this hype behind Dracovish and why people are pointing out that it's supposedly showing how broken it is following these replays. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that it is very good in a metagame where people have stopped overpreparing for it, such as the one right now. However, anyone with eyes can tell it was Mantine that was doing most of the work in most of the replays, so why is Dracovish being pointed towards?
 

hero

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I don't understand all this hype behind Dracovish and why people are pointing out that it's supposedly showing how broken it is. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that it is very good in a metagame where people have stopped overpreparing for it, such as the one right now. However, anyone with eyes can tell it was Mantine that was doing most of the work in most of the replays, so why is Dracovish being pointed towards?
Well, Dracovish is pretty relevant to Mantine doing work. When teambuilding, people tend to put Dracovish and Rain under the same umbrella (heh), which translates to physically defensive water resists or inmunities like Seismitoad, which Mantine happens to abuse heavily. In other words, Mantine is a rain sweeper that benefits from teams being comfortable with having just a phys def water resist as their rain counter.
 
I don't understand all this hype behind Dracovish and why people are pointing out that it's supposedly showing how broken it is following these replays. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that it is very good in a metagame where people have stopped overpreparing for it, such as the one right now. However, anyone with eyes can tell it was Mantine that was doing most of the work in most of the replays, so why is Dracovish being pointed towards?
I wasn't trying to say vish was the main reason for those rain wins ftr, the mantine set seems to be putting in a lot of work for sure, does anyone know the spread + item?

Having said that, being broken isn't just an extension of being good, mons like dracovish and dugtrio have the potential to be broken or bad.

Well, Dracovish is pretty relevant to Mantine doing work. When teambuilding, people tend to put Dracovish and Rain under the same umbrella (heh), which translates to physically defensive water resists or inmunities like Seismitoad, which Mantine happens to abuse heavily. In other words, Mantine is a rain sweeper that benefits from teams being comfortable with having just a phys def water resist as their rain counter.
Particularly since Mantine completely walls Seismitoad and can sub on toxic.
 
Metronome, I'm inclined to believe it's Modest 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe but I'm not entirely sure.
Yeah I figured metronome, can't really break that well otherwise but a sub roost lo set could be ok I guess... The spread can probably be played with, but max SpA seems good
 

Jordy

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Usage Stats for Week 7: https://pokepast.es/8d262f4912bdc924
Moves and Teammates for Week 7: https://pokepast.es/2fd161e55c12779b

With the release of Pokemon Home into SPL, I'd like to discuss the metagame and some of the things we've seen so far.


Just like every other week, Clefable has managed to amass the most usage this week as well. With the release of Pokemon Home, Clefable's gotten access back to Soft-Boiled; this has given Calm Mind sets a lot more freedom, as they now have reliable recovery with a solid amount of PP and don't have to give up two moveslots for recovery otherwise. Clefable's been seen running more physically defensive spreads this week in order to check Pokemon like Zeraora and Terrakion a little better.

We also saw TDK use a rather interesting tech in Teleport Clefable in this replay. Although it did not win the game, Clefable can be seen consistently taking advantage of Pokemon like Corviknight and Clefable by using Teleport, granting TDK a lot of momentum during the early-game.


Zeraora was used a surprising amount this week; it was used 12 times and accumulated a respectable 40% winrate. Zeraora has proven to be a rather versatile Pokemon, with most people using Bulk Up sets but some even opting to run Taunt to shut down bulky Pokemon like Clefable and Grass Knot to deal with Ground-types like Seismitoad and Hippowdon. Thanks to its great natural Speed tier, most people that were using Zeraora elected to forego a Choice Scarf user, instead electing to use Zeraora as their Speed control, sometimes in tandem with a priority user such as Aegislash or Conkeldurr.


Toxapex had the most impressive winrate this week by far; it was used 8 times and gathered a very impressive 87.50% winrate. In this post-Pokemon Home metagame, Toxapex is easily one of the best pivots into Pokemon such as Terrakion, Clefable, and Aegislash. On top of that, Toxic Spikes have proven to be very valuable right now, as can be seen in this and this replay. Toxapex has also regained its access to Knock Off from Pokemon SM, this has made it much more harder to switch into it without being punished for Pokemon like Dragapult and Hydreigon.


Rotom-H has been on a downwards trend since Week 5, but that trend seems to be coming to an end. It was only used 5 times in week 7, but managed to win 4 out of those 5 times. Toxic has proven to be a useful tool for Rotom-H, allowing it to cripple checks like Seismitoad, Kommo-o, and Rhyperior, as can be seen in this replay. Something else that's worth noting is that most people have been opting to drop Volt Switch in favor of Discharge lately, this is likely to still cripple certain switch-ins with paralysis without Thunder Wave; it's likely also because it turns Rotom-H into a much more consistent Togekiss check, which we've been seeing a little more of lately.


Kyurem was only used 4 times, but won in 3 of those games and has most definitely proven itself to be quite threatening. This game is a prime example of just how hard it can be to deal with Kyurem for balance teams. Kyurem manages to find opportunities to switch into play against Toxapex quite often and manages to force TDK into very awkward spots afterwards, despite having its Choice Specs removed by Toxapex. Kyurem can also take advantage of Rotom and some other Pokemon like Mandibuzz and Seismitoad quite well.
 
Adding to the point on Clefable, with Soft-Boiled freeing up its moveset it has reached into its immense movepool...
When you face a Clef in battle be ready for any of the following that have all been used this SPL:
Teleport
Trick
Knock Off
Encore
Calm Mind
Wish
Aromatherapy/Heal Bell
Thunder Wave
Protect
Stealth Rock
Counter (not even joking)
Not used so far but viable:
Toxic
Imprison
Magic Coat
Psych Up
Sing
And I'm only mentioning support moves. This thing's movepool is nothing short of insane.
 
Week 8 usage stats, looks fugly but it's the best I could do.

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Clefable | 26 | 86.67% | 50.00% |
| 2 | Corviknight | 21 | 70.00% | 42.86% |
| 3 | Toxapex | 15 | 50.00% | 40.00% |
| 4 | Kyurem | 10 | 33.33% | 40.00% |
| 4 | Zeraora | 10 | 33.33% | 30.00% |
| 6 | Dragapult | 9 | 30.00% | 55.56% |
| 6 | Kommo-o | 9 | 30.00% | 33.33% |
| 8 | Rotom-Heat | 8 | 26.67% | 50.00% |
| 8 | Ditto | 8 | 26.67% | 50.00% |
| 10 | Aegislash | 7 | 23.33% | 42.86% |
| 11 | Seismitoad | 6 | 20.00% | 83.33% |
| 11 | Mandibuzz | 6 | 20.00% | 66.67% |
| 11 | Dugtrio | 6 | 20.00% | 33.33% |
| 14 | Excadrill | 5 | 16.67% | 80.00% |
| 15 | Bisharp | 4 | 13.33% | 25.00% |
| 16 | Hippowdon | 3 | 10.00% | 66.67% |
| 16 | Hydreigon | 3 | 10.00% | 0.00% |
| 18 | Ferrothorn | 2 | 6.67% | 100.00% |
| 18 | Chandelure | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 18 | Keldeo | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 18 | Ninetales-Alola | 2 | 6.67% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Conkeldurr | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Tyranitar | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Weavile | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Obstagoon | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Cobalion | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Cinderace | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Grimmsnarl | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Terrakion | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Necrozma | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Hawlucha | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Incineroar | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Dracovish | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Toxtricity | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Jirachi | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Mamoswine | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Umbreon | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |

Clef at ~87% usage, Corv at 70%, Pex at 50%, seems pretty accurate based on the state of the tier. Lando-T could never have dreamed of numbers like that lmao. Ferro was only used twice for some wack reason. The win rates seem to have been fluctuating a lot throughout SPL; some weeks mons like Duggy or Hydreigon will dominate and Seismitoad will do terrible but this week was the opposite. Even considering the meta shifts due to Home's release, there doesn't seem to be a lot of win rate consistency outside of Clef/Corv/Pex.
 

TPP

Sincerely
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Tagging all SS OU players from eliminated teams to give their thoughts on the metagame and/or share whatever they would like to share from SPL. I won't tag managers/helpers, but if you were involved with SS OU in SPL, then feel free to post here as well. I hope you all had a good time with our new generation of OU, and good luck to the teams that qualified for playoffs.

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Also, serious congrats to everyone who kept playing through the chaos that was HOME's release and adapted to the new metagame three days after two centralizing mons got banned. Figuring out the new metagame as fast as they did and finding ways to innovate in the first week of the HOME meta was absurd. Well played guys.
 

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