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Tournaments SPL XVII DPP Discussion Thread

hello, been very busy week but I'll hv them up soon (hopefully)

SFG vs Marshall Law:

Pideous vs Skyrio:

199 vs Marcop:

Tenebricite vs Void:

DaBaby2 vs Sheik:

dpp-spl-xvii-bingo - update week 5.png

3K Beats 9K+ - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-900576 (Week 1)
New Updates
Malekith crashes out in gamechat * (he moved to gsc but never said had to be in DPP Game) - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen2ou-909031
Crit KO through Reflect - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-909278 Tenebricite vs Void

Not sure if I will mark down SFG got haxed from his game vs Marshall. I will leave that judgement to the viewers. If I missed any others just DM me or something
 
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Fakes vs SFG: (55/45)

Saw a lot of Fakes’s teams during the revival tournament & it’s likely SFG will face hard HippoClef stall. I can see SFG pull off a victory so long as SFG banks in on unrelenting offense & denying Fakes any free turns. But we’ll see.

Skyrio vs Shiek: (30/70)

Shiek the GOAT is gonna take the W imo, highly consistent in every tournament Shiek participated in via win streak.

Void vs Pideous: (48/52)

I’m leaning a bit towards Pideous as she surprisingly enough adapted well amidst the Sporeless meta. This will undoubtedly be the most hype match seeing both legends, the best DPP SPL Champ in both 2024 & 2025 vs the winner of the Jirachee invitational, go toe to toe against one another. Def anticipating a long game between the two.

Gilbert Arenas vs BlazingDark: (65/35)

I’m loving all the teams Gilbert has been generating ever since week 1, looking forward to what spicy team Gilbert will cook!

Marshall Law vs 199: (60/40)

IDK much about Marshall Law aside from the DPP revival tournament, but I do know Marshall did have a strong record at that time. But 199 can pull a sleeper victory.
 
Week 7 is up, just 2 more weeks until we're on our way to the playoffs. Not surprised by who won last week, and this week looks just as intense as the last one. How exciting, and make sure to add your votes in here as well :)

:Alakazam-Mega: SFG vs 199 :Snorlax:
:Tyrantrum: BlazingDark vs Marshall.Law :Garchomp:
:Raikou: Pideous vs Gilbert arenas :Suicune:
:Gardevoir-Mega: Sheik vs Void :Lycanroc:
:Entei: Fakes vs Skyrio :Marowak-Alola:

SFG vs 199
BlazingDark vs Marshall.Law
Pideous vs Gilbert arenas
Sheik vs Void
Fakes vs Skyrio

Keeping images out this week since it's another busy week of uni, and I'm lazy tbf...
Every player besides Fakes(1-0) has taken a loss, with Sheik, Skyrio, and Eve(Pideous) sharing the best w/l score: 5-1
The tyrants have yet to win a DPP game. Will they be capable of taking one by the end of the tournament?
Marcop(Gilbert) is the only player who is in a tie on their score(3-3), but has a more likely chance to be positive as Cryo's are currently the first seed.
All these player matchups have something interesting in them. SFG and 199 are probably a 49:51 type of matchup, and both love leftovers Metagross, and have somewhat similar offensive and defensive structures when they're not trying to build with less common mons. BlazingDark vs Marshall.Law is another cool French MU and something I haven't seen before. Sheik vs Void is basically the current player who is on their way to get the best score vs the previous player that had the best records in past SPLs. Eve vs Marcop and Fakes vs Skyrio feels like an HL matchup, though for different reasons. Eve and Marcop were the top 3 finalists from DPP revival, where Eve has taken losses from him and PDC last year, so there's definitely some payback to be made. Fakes and Skyrio are in contention because of their high skill ceiling, esp Fakes, which is one of the most efficient players in DPP, and Skyrio is having a run on their bracket.

Personally, I'd say Eve vs Marcop is the HL if you take into account their past tournaments, and the Tigers are barely outside of the Top 4. But if it's SPL-dependent, then Fakes vs Skyrio makes more sense based on their momentum, and Sheik vs Void has more specific context with how they dominated their games from Week 1. Either way, this Week rocks, and it doesn't feel as one-sided for either side tbh.

Also, a Roserade team finally won this week, big W tbh tbh ignore it was a mirror mu though kek
 
SFG vs 199: (55/45)

Seeing SFG vs 199 is a nice refreshing matchup between both offensive players duking it out. Albeit 199 isn’t a fan of running suicide leads, so it’s likely offense vs bulky offense matchup. But I do think SFG can claim a W so long as they try to out offense 199.

BlazingDark vs Marshall.Law: (47/53)

Again, I know neither players, but maybe Marshall Law can redeem their loss? Really cool seeing 199 pull a classic Gyaralix in SPL!

Pideous vs Gilbert arenas: (65/35)

What surprised me the most from last match was seeing Pideous run a team that almost looks Pre Latias unban era (Back when Vaporeon was seen as an Ape ‘check’ before ppl realized Vap was weak to physical Ape), as much as I like Gilbert, I’m predicting that Pideous will likely claim the W. But who knows, Gilbert has plenty of tricks up their sleeve & has pulled off unexpected victories.

Sheik vs Void: (49/51)

Now this is once again a similar match between 2 of the strongest players in DPP, Shiek being a high level demon who also plays extremely well in tournaments vs the SPL Champ Void. This battle will be slightly closer compared to Pideous vs Void since Pideous did win the invitational endurance test, but I can see Void pick up his losses & claim victory.

Fakes vs Skyrio: (55/45)

This matchup will def get interesting, Fakes will likely run a slow Clef team vs Skyrio running hazard stack given their last match against Shiek. IDK much about Skyrio, maybe Fakes will run a DPP Superman team to counter Skyrio? (Bronzong/Skarmory/Clefable/Latias/Hippowdon/Rotom) Who knows.
 
I decided to get my predicts in early after forgetting about them last week.

:Lycanroc: Void vs Dababy2 :Entei:

Despite this down season, I can't help but root for one of the greatest DPPers to grace the competitive stage.

:Marowak-Alola:Skyrio vs SFG :Alakazam-Mega:

I'm a big fan of SFG's builds so he gets my vote for Week 8.

:Suicune:Gilbert arenas vs Sheik :Gardevoir-Mega:

Sheik has been on fire this season, and I don't expect them to let up anytime soon.

:Garchomp: Marshall.Law vs Pideous :Raikou:

Marshall's a fun guy to watch.

:Snorlax: 199 vs BlazingDark :Tyrantrum:

199 has brought a few teams that are similar to stuff I've run, so when I watch him play I can't help but root for him.
 
The SPL is two weeks before the pool ends, and we are in Week 8. Make sure to add your votes on the SPL predictions on here as well!

:Lycanroc: Void vs Dababy2 :Entei:
:Marowak-Alola: Skyrio vs SFG :Alakazam-mega:
:Suicune: Gilbert arenas vs Sheik :Gardevoir-Mega:
:Garchomp: Marshall.Law vs Pideous :Raikou:
:Snorlax: 199 vs BlazingDark :Tyrantrum:
Void vs Dababy2
Skyrio vs SFG
Gilbert arenas vs Sheik
Marshall.Law vs Pideous
199 vs BlazingDark
Quick thoughts/Recap/Whatever I'll ramble from Week 7.
- Eve (Pideous) is the only player to have taken a single loss that has played all weeks, and is a contender for the overall MVP of SPL XVII.
- Fakes remains undefeated, and has shifted to play BW this week
- 199 needs only one win to be guaranteed a positive record if BIGS isn't getting in the playoffs.
- The Tyrants finally won a DPP Match, big W for the tyrants fans.
- Every match in Week 7 looked very one-sided, which is pretty crazy, lmao.
- Two Infernape teams won this week, bit noticeable that both ran with steel lead + ttar behind the team.
- Almost every teams bar BlazingDark used Latias, with Tyranitar being just one less mon below. In contrast, Jirachi were in 2 teams only, and no signs for Zapdos this week.
- Roserade won a non-mirror matchup, very epic.


 
Week 7 Games underway

Fakes vs Skyrio:

Sheik vs Void:

SFG vs 199:

Malekith vs BlazingDark:

Pideous vs Marcop:

dpp-spl-xvii-bingo - update week 7.png

New Bingo additions:
Eeveelution wins a game: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-911518 Pideous vs Void Week 6
SFG gets haxed: ngl I am cheating a bit here but it was probably a zillion small rolls or minor hax that added up over the season


The other videos will go up soon hopefully
 
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My bad for the late post, but here's week 9!

:Gardevoir-Mega: Sheik vs Marshall.Law :Garchomp:
:Raikou: Pideous vs 199 :Snorlax:
:Alakazam-Mega: SFG vs Lady Bug :Tyrantrum:
:Entei: Fakes vs Gilbert arenas :Suicune: - Played
:Marowak-Alola: Skyrio vs Void :Lycanroc:

[CLA] Sheik vs Marshall.Law [SHA]
[TIG] Pideous vs 199 [BIG]
[SCO] SFG vs Lady Bug [TYR]
[RUI] Fakes vs Gilbert arenas [CRY] - Played
[RAI] Skyrio vs Void [WOL]
Quick recap from W8(and some of W9):
- Pideous is fighting for the MVP overall, as she's the highest W-L with the lowest price atm.
- Fakes ends up the only undefeated player, with a score of 3-0.
- Based on this post, Classiest and Alpha Ruiners are out, ending the bracket run of Tizio, Dababy2, Fakes, and Sheik.
- Despite their record, any of the players of Tyrantrum can end up tied to positive, with Lady Bug's exception, if they're forced to play DPP in a tiebreaker. The same goes for SFG and Void in theory, but it is unlikely that there will be one or two DPP tiebreakers if their team is playing.
- 8 out of 10 teams used sand, 4 of each being hippo and ttar, Dababy specifically bringing both of them in the same team.
- Cradily's losing and is currently the punching bag of getting haxxed and staying winless for so long, rip.
 
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1773262917138.png
Shiek vs Marshall.Law
1773262948036.png

(53% Shiek/47% Marshall)

Ok, I did see the last moments of the revival tour & Marshall has impressively held 2nd place, beating Pideous previously & losing to Gilbert. I do think it’ll be close between 2 strong contenders, but I’d personally lean towards Shiek knowing Shiek is the GOAT in any matchup.

1773263244387.png
Pideous vs 199
1773263266345.png

(65% Pideous/35% 199)

I do have some hope that 199 can pull a miracle for the Bigs, but again Pideous is so far the best player in her field so far since day 1. This could either be a sleeper victory for 199 or a Pideous sweep.

1773263469410.png
SFG vs Lady Bug
1773263492174.png

(40% SFG/ 60% Ladybug)

This is indeed a certified Boomer vs Boomer matchup of all time, I’m curious what team PDC will cook for Lady Bug this season. But I do know Lady Bug either brings the most janky teams, a standard team with a few tweaks, or a really cool Abomasnow team as we’re nearing the endgame.

1773263758879.png
Skyrio vs Void
1773263778373.png

(51% Skyrio/49% Void)

Ok, I did underestimated Skyrio a bit beforehand, but maybe Void could bring home the W like Lebron?
 
1773262917138.png
Sheik vs Marshall.Law
1773262948036.png

(55% Sheik/45% Marshall)

Marshall is an incredible player but so far Sheik has been having a better run and I slightly prefer their builds so I see them having a little edge.
1773263244387.png
Pideus vs 199
1773263266345.png

(60% Pideus/40% 199)

These 2 are probably my favourite players. I really love both Pideus' play and teams and she has been doing great so far, so I'll have to give the edge to her. However I really like 199's offensive and innovative builds and I can definitively see him giving Pideus a hard time since she's been playing a lot of fat teams recently. I believe he can pull off the unexpected win but I wouldn't know who to cheer for.
1773263469410.png
SFG vs LadyBug
1773263492174.png

(55% SFG/45% LadyBug)

Oh boy, this could be a banger. Cheering for SFG because he's been at times unlucky this season and I feel like he deserves more. It could really go either way tho, it's probably closer than the previous two.
1773263758879.png
Skyrio vs Void
1773263778373.png

(49% Skyrio/51% Void)

Skyrio's run has been incredible this season, however Void is still Void and I feel like his builds are starting to adapt well to the new meta, so I see him having a slight edge.
 
SPL XVII Recap part 2


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+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Tyranitar | 20 | 66.67% | 55.00% |
| 2 | Latias | 13 | 43.33% | 38.46% |
| 3 | Jirachi | 9 | 30.00% | 33.33% |
| 4 | Heatran | 9 | 30.00% | 33.33% |
| 5 | Magneton | 8 | 26.67% | 50.00% |
| 6 | Gyarados | 8 | 26.67% | 62.50% |
| 7 | Flygon | 7 | 23.33% | 42.86% |
| 8 | Metagross | 7 | 23.33% | 57.14% |
| 9 | Starmie | 7 | 23.33% | 57.14% |
| 10 | Donphan | 6 | 20.00% | 50.00% |
| 11 | Zapdos | 6 | 20.00% | 66.67% |
| 12 | Scizor | 5 | 16.67% | 40.00% |
| 13 | Suicune | 5 | 16.67% | 40.00% |
| 14 | Gengar | 5 | 16.67% | 60.00% |
| 15 | Clefable | 4 | 13.33% | 75.00% |
| 16 | Skarmory | 4 | 13.33% | 75.00% |
| 17 | Gliscor | 4 | 13.33% | 0.00% |
| 18 | Empoleon | 4 | 13.33% | 50.00% |
| 19 | Breloom | 3 | 10.00% | 33.33% |
| 20 | Celebi | 3 | 10.00% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Infernape | 3 | 10.00% | 33.33% |
| 22 | Magnezone | 3 | 10.00% | 33.33% |
| 23 | Lucario | 3 | 10.00% | 66.67% |
| 24 | Bronzong | 3 | 10.00% | 33.33% |
| 25 | Abomasnow | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 26 | Gastrodon-East | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 27 | Nidoqueen | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 28 | Dragonite | 2 | 6.67% | 0.00% |
| 29 | Forretress | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 30 | Rotom-Frost | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 31 | Swampert | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 32 | Roserade | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 33 | Rotom-Wash | 2 | 6.67% | 50.00% |
| 34 | Gastrodon | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 35 | Azelf | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 36 | Milotic | 1 | 3.33% | 0.00% |
| 37 | Quagsire | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 38 | Rhyperior | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Steelix | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 40 | Vaporeon | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |
| 41 | Rotom-Heat | 1 | 3.33% | 100.00% |

Overall

- Rachi higher in the usages but low winrate. Same for Heatran and Flygon.
- Tar and Lati still #1 #2. Gyara looking really good !
- Zap Mie high usages and high winrate, same for Phan; Phan x Tar still appreciated by the players and we saw many variants of it.
- We finally saw Nidoqueen, Gastro, Rhyperior and Gliscor ! An unexpected Steelix from 199 too. More diversity means more playstyle for sure.
- SkarmClef = 4 with a 75% winrate, don't sleep on it ...
- Some TSpikes but not that much.
- Breloom still low in the usage stats and low winrate ...
- Some Hail, used two times by 199.
- First Azelf of this SPL and it claimed a W for Marshall.
- Notable pokemons : Forre, Vaporeon and Milotic.

Analysing

- Players seem to really appreciate Magneton / Magnezone teams, a good pairing with Phan or Nidoqueen who give free setup to Gyarados and Magneton helps for this case. Slow winconds ( Zor / Quag / Gastro etc ) are def a good reason to use trappers to add speed control and to limit hazards. We saw quick adaptation to this btw with some Zong, Steelix or Forre; they all have advantages vs Scarf Magnezone / Ton compared to Skarm. Shed Shell is prob a good idea to fix this but you are now weaker to Gyara ( and physical spam overall ); also trapper reliant teams did adapt to Shed Skarm notably by running winconds that can 1v6 the game like SD Zor, CM Clef, CM Lati etc so if you do this you have be aware of that; Spinners help too.
- Defensive TTar as we expected is a big winner of Sleep ban, we saw since the beginning many movesets like Payback, Pursuit, EQ and notably Toxic and it is fucking good right now. Toxic allows you to creep Ground types esp Donphan who can just spin on your face preventing rocks, Water types, Reflect Lati and Zapdos making TTar a very good support wall. It had a niche before Sleep ban but now it is very strong imo, keep an eye on it !
- Speaking of Toxic, it's definitly securing a moveslot on many pokemons like Zapdos, Metagross, TTar, Rachi or Gastro. The new TWave ?
- Gastro finally show its potential with a clear sweep in week 4 ! Curse Toxic Waterfall with both Loom and Celebi being no where to be seen is surely the best Gastro set rn. Toxic allows you to 1v1 Quag, opposite Gastro, DD Gyarados, CM Lati ( also puts on a timer Roar Lati which is normally a counter ), Zapdos ( so it cannot pp stall you ) etc. Pairing it with hazards ( Skarm mostly ) and a SpD Tar ( Suit ? ) seems to be good way to fix the Grass type MU, both Skyrio and Sheik did this and won their game.
- FWG offense still dead as f ... we got one during week 4 and it got a terrible matchup. Players pref PhanTar (Gyara /+Magneton) offense, seems to be way more consistent for now.
- Overall, I feel like we got more unorthodox teams esp in week 6 so let me recap the " Cool new sets and cool pocketpicks " for this part : SD Aboma, SD Celebi, Sash Thunder Fang Gliscor, HP Elec Empo, Custap double hazards Forre, EQ Lati offense, BU Mono Facade Loom, Roar Vapo with Forre and with HP Ground/Fight Rotom, Ice Beam Clef, Steelix and I think that's all ?



See you soon and sorry for being almost 3 weeks late ... Peace <3
 
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Some of my teams got used in regular season this SPL and I wanted to talk about those and give some additional thoughts on stuff I think is underrated at the moment, hopefully to try to push offense forward as it seems like most people are just favouring fat stuff at the moment but these days I mostly see myself as an offense player, I haven't really explored stall much post-sleep ban (I'll leave that to Excal, Osgoode and PDC)

Stuff that got used:

Registeel Slop (DPP Edition), used here by Pideous
:registeel: :infernape: :donphan: :gyarados: :latias: :tyranitar:
My favourite team of the 3 and one that I came up with around Week 1 of SPL, so this team is basically combining these 2 teams:

:azelf: :infernape: :gyarados: :metagross: :latias: :tyranitar: by Pideous
:donphan: :registeel: :gyarados: :tyranitar: :latias: :breloom: by Excal

I felt like the Pideous team was good but now with the sleep ban I thought Donphan > Azelf could fit and give the team some more longevity so it has an easier time breaking stall, and the Excal team is good but I'm just not a big fan of SD Breloom personally and it has the Scizor weakness unless you want to tech Fire Fang Donphan or Flamethrower Gyarados lol, I didn't like either of those options. Zap Cannon Registeel is an Excal tech and I very much enjoy it at lead so you can paralyze Azelf with some favourable luck, but if you don't get the para it's fine too, Counter is here for Metagross and so I have outplay potential vs Donphan so I can try to keep my rocks up. Registeel and Infernape are very obnoxious for offense and my core of CBTar, Donphan, Latias, DDTauntGyara and Infernape should be able to beat most stalls. We seen Metagross > Registeel earlier in the season and I think that works too but I prefer Registeel.

MixPert CBTar Water Spam, used here by Fakes
:swampert: :starmie: :gyarados: :metagross: :latias: :tyranitar:
I really like MixPert when it's used with Healing Wish, I think it's very annoying for stall, TTar/Hippo + Clef + Skarm cores are pretty annoyed by it and while Latias is a "check" it doesn't feel particularly safe and I have CBTar here to annoy it too. Unfortunately this team doesn't really solve the issue water spam teams can kind of have, Bulky SD Scizor, Gyarados can kind of check it, Metagross can boom it or maybe you can tech HP Fire on Specs Starmie to try to bait it too. Maybe you could consider Kingdra > Starmie to make it more similar to the BKC water spam team but I like Starmie for speed reasons and it gives Swampert some more longevity vs stall.

Specs Kingdra CBTar Semi-Rain, used here by Fakes
:bronzong: :tyranitar: :kingdra: :latias: :gliscor: :magneton:
Of course this is based on the core that BKC has popularized, RD Latias + Specs Kingdra + CBTar, a fun way of utilizing rain while not going as "all in" on it as dedicated rain teams, I prefer this approach. I guess it's my least favourite team of the 3 but it's still good, SD Gliscor slotted very nicely over Gyarados here, giving me a ground type (which I think most offense teams should have honestly) and also giving me a solid late game sweeper that pairs well with the core.

Click on the pokemon for movesets, excluding EVs but they're pretty simple you can figure it out.

Early post-sleep ban viability rankings, kinda threw together but I want to see how my opinion changes in 6-12 months, anyway here it is:
1773621124976.png

Lower on Heatran than I used to be because it's partner Breloom is worse but still a big fan of it, TTar clearly the best and Reflect Twave Latias is still great (though more CBTar doesn't help it I guess) I'm using Jirachi less than I ever have and my most used set of it is probably SuperJira, I think Jirachi isn't as splashable as once thought and it could use some adaptation to the metagame. Some funny mons that I rank highly that other people don't are: Jolteon, Cloyster, Steelix, Camerupt, Vaporeon, Shaymin, Probopass and I rank Rhyperior very highly too I thought we'd see more of it post-sleep ban, yes I think all these guys are viable and should see at least see some form of usage...

Now, I feel like talking about how I've been using the fighting types after the sleep ban, Clef is everywhere so it's natural to want to use more fighting types but we haven't been seeing them as much in SPL.

First I'll start with how I've been using Breloom now that it's lost it's best tool:

:breloom: + :tyranitar:
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
- Seed Bomb
- Mach Punch / Superpower
- Focus Punch
- Stun Spore

Alright, basically after my testing with Breloom what I've found out is it still very much wants status like Stun Spore or Toxic, any 4 attacks sets with Facade, Superpower + Focus Punch, Sub or Protect have just felt bad to me and very toothless and not that threatening... and yeah I think Breloom basically requires Tyranitar if you want to use it on offense, maybe CB Sciz can do similar things but idk TTar feels better with it to me.

:breloom: + :magnezone: / :magneton:
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
- Seed Bomb
- Mach Punch / Protect / Substitute?
- Superpower
- Toxic

Toxic is of course very annoying if you can remove the steel types! Focus Punch is also less needed if you can remove steel types.

Overrall Breloom has landed in a place where it's OK, I disagree with people who said/are saying it's still top tier and I also disagree with people who are saying it's unviable now, realistically it's somewhere in the middle, pretty good. It has other sets like SD and Impish of course which have seen success but I wanted to talk about these sets since I think they're being underrated at the moment.

Next I really want to talk about Lucario because i've kinda realized it's great but people aren't even using it's best set in my opinion (yes i'm not joking I think this is it's best set at the moment)

:lucario:
Lucario @ Shuca Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Aura Sphere
- Vacuum Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Dark Pulse
- Calm Mind

CM Lucario is legit and if you know me i've been singing it's praises for a while now, been using it here and there in test games and such since around 2022 (shoutout Osgoode I think he brought it up to me first lol) but I really started exploring it more and realizing it isn't a meme around the middle of 2025 and it's only gotten better this year with Mach Breloom being low usage of course. Scarf Mag is everywhere and CM Lucario just generally matches up well vs these teams, it hits hard and in some way is harder to revenge kill than SD Lucario because it doesn't drop it's own defenses with Close Combat. Marcop also used it to success in SPL and my friend used it here with a team I built and I thought it was a good showcase of it. Healing Wish is a great partner with it of course and Pursuit is also appreciated so you can fit Shuca HP Ice, but Life Orb Dark Pulse is solid too, you may even be able to use some other items or Dark Pulse + HP Ice and drop Vacuum Wave, or fit Substitute on it... I don't know. There's more to say about CM Lucario and more to explore with it and I think it should legitamately see some usage so I wanted to talk about it before it hopefully does lol. Also bonus is it's good a pretty good revenge killer of opposing Lucario, SD Empo, and DD Tar!

Alright, now Hariyama which is also great.

:hariyama: + :magnezone: / :magneton: + Healing Wish
Hariyama @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
- Close Combat / Superpower / Cross Chop / Revenge?
- Ice Punch
- Payback
- Bulk Up

Excal already talked a lot about Hariyama here and you should read that post, I don't have much to add. It does really appreciate Mag support as landing the para on Jirachi or removing it entirely is very nice for it, also nice so Skarmory can't phaze you out so you have an easier time sweeping. Trades well vs offense, can really mess up stall, yeah Hariyama is just solid and it sees basically 0 usage... I used it in DPP invite last year if you want an example of it in action here.

Another very good fighting type is Heracross.

:heracross:
Heracross @ Leftovers / Black Belt?
Ability: Guts
- Megahorn / Night Slash
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

This set hasn't seen much usage but honestly it just tears some teams apart, I'm pretty sure Excal deserves full credit for it. Excellent speed tier and very unique defensive typing make it super scary and good at cleaning up games such as this one I played. Mag support is appreciated but I'm not sure it's 100% needed? I like Megahorn so I can get the KO on Latias but Night Slash has it's uses and of course doesn't miss. Healing Wish seems like it'd be strong with this set too. Other combinations of moves might be viable on it.

:heracross:
Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

CBHera is a solid pursuit user but also just very difficult to switch into, unlike SD it just threatens right away. Good set.

There's Gallade too which is like, probably good but I haven't been able to make it work yet but I'd like to solve it one day I think it has some very unique attributes that are worth exploration. I didn't talk about Infernape, that's probably the best fighting type right now but everyone knows why Infernape is good and what moves are good on it so yeah.

I did vote no ban on sleep but I've been enjoying exploring a new metagame and while I didn't enjoy the games SPL that much because I thought a lot of stuff got left on the table in favour of just using fat stuff (understandable btw I don't blame anyone or the players lol). I'm looking forward to the future of DPP overrall I think this metagame has potential to be good once we figure it out a bit more. My opinion is we should probably be keeping our eyes on Clefable for a suspect test if anything but I guess that would be in the distant future, things could improve. There's Jirachi too but honestly it has felt weaker than it ever has so it'd maybe be a strange time to suspect test it, I don't know. Anyway hope you got something out of this post, keep building!
 
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SPL XVII Regular Season Recap​

Taking inspiration from Le Don 's posts, I decided to make my own recap of SPL and make a comprehensive table with every set used from every mon and the archetypes that have been used. I'll also be sharing my thoughts on the meta and I'll be analyzing the archetypes and Pokemons through the data I gathered.

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Let's get to the important stuff.

Archetypes Analysis


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*Archetypes are left to right most offensive to least. Bulky Offense has a lot of variance within itself. I didn't consider regular offense because I don't think it's an actual archetype in DPP OU, same as hard stall (only 1 team was actually hard stall with no win con). You may disagree with the categorization of some BO and Balance teams, as some of them could be interchangeable, but I tried to maintain consistency (glad to hear your feedback!).


-Magneton/zone (but mostly ton) balance/semistall seems to be the most beloved archetype in the game. These teams usually have a great defensive core, and their main way to make progress is through trapping with mag, Ttar, Taunt Gliscor, status, hazards and especially bulky setup sweepers, like SD Scizor and CM Clefable, which are both really good right now. Quagsire and Gastrodon had pretty decent usage too and we've seen a cradily too! Mag-less semistall has good usage too, but it's well below magneton's.

-Bulky Offence is the most used archetype but it's not as ubiquitous as mag semistall, because it's really varied. Despite popular belief, offence seems to be doing well, having both the highest play rate and win rate. Of course not every offence is good and the main challenge with building an offensive team now is being able to break through the highly used semi-stall teams (which I believe there are many tools for this) while not crumbling against other offenses.

-Balance (mag-less) is not in bad shape but I'd say it's not as strong as before either. Breloom's spore was a huge offensive tool for balance structures, which now feel a little underwhelming when it comes to breaking stall. However ZapMie Paraspam (which is a just variation of ZapMie balance) and breloom-less balance are still good. I feel like breloom's best sets right now are defensive leech seed, SD and probably the ones Kristyl showcased above, but I see him fitting more on either very bulky balance, almost semistall teams or offensive ones. I don't see him being the balance staple he used to be.

-HyperOffence has seen little usage and it's pretty niche, being only used 5 times (and only 2 of those were Azelf HO, probably some will disagree that these teams are actually HO and even I see that's a bit of a stretch). This is probably because it doesn't have the power to overwhelm the solid defensive core of some bulky offence team and can't really break through stall as of now, but I think with enough innovation we could see a rise in HO usage.

-Hazard Stack Offence is nowhere to be seen, and that famous lead skarmory set (Taunt, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Icy wind) has seen no usage at all. Hazard stacking is exclusively relegated to semi-stall teams and some rare roserade balance or BO with skarmory, but I wouldn't call these Hazard Stack Offence.

Pocket Monsters Analysis


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**I mostly used the names smogon uses for the sets (i.e. Utility Metagross being Stealth rock, All Purpose Ttar being mixed). Of course, within the same sets there can be a lot of variance: a clear example is Utility Jirachi, who can run any of Stealth Rock, Thunder, Iron Head, U-Turn, Toxic, Twave, Body Slam, Fire Punch, Protect, Substitute. I figured out wheter a mon was was physically defensive or specially by calcs and by what made the most sense in that team. Sometimes I couldn't figure it out and of course, the EVs can vary dramatically and what is physically defensive could be mixed bulk actually, there's no accurate way to tell. This is especially important for Clefable, I suspect most of them actually ran some kind of mixed bulk, but I couldn't tell for sure. Also Scizor, Hippo, Skarmory and other low usage mons may have this issue.

Tyranitar (#1)​

-Ttar is undeniably the #1 Pokemon right now, boasting the highest play rate by far and an impressive win rate. 40% of all Ttar were Choice Band: this doesn't come as a surprise as it's good wallbreaking potential, paired with good bulk and utility makes CB tar a very good option against fat teams. This Ttar fits mostly on Bulky Offence or balance teams.
-The remaining 60% is pretty evenly split between Choice Scarf, All Purpose (meaning mixed either with or without Stealth Rock) and Spdef invested. Spdef has seen a huge rise in popularity and usually runs Stealth rock and any of Crunch/Earthquake/Pursuit/Protect/Toxic/Payback and can fit other coverage if he wants to. Toxic especially has seen a lot of usage to counter the #1 winner of sleep ban: Donphan (along any other non-steel pokemons). Spdef Ttar is only seen on semi-stall structures as a good rocker and special sponge, while also being able to make progress through Toxic/Pursuit.
-ScarfTar is mostly seen on Semi-Stall structures too as a way make progress. All Purpose is seen both on more offensive builds and more defensive ones (altought I think it's mostly offensive but I could be wrong).
-Ddance Tar is kinda dead (only 2 usages). I think that's mostly because what checks BandTar also usually checks DDTar. He still needs to be respected in the builder ofc, but is not a major threat as of now.

Latias (#2)​

-Despite Tyranitar being stronger than ever, Latias is still a beast: Defensive is its most used set (36%) and it's still the cornerstone of most Semi-Stall teams (and some Balance aswell). DPulse, Recover, Reflect, Twave is the most common set, but it can also run icebeam, wish, roar.
-Choice Specs is the second most used set, fitting on many Bulky Offense teams and still being the biggest threat in the tier and one of the main reason why every team must have 2+ steels.
-Choice scarf has barely less usage than Specs, providing insane utility with trick and healing wish and speed control to offensive teams.
-We've also seen some Calm mind and some other unorthodox sets as Life Orb hp fighting lead brought by Marshall.Law in week 9 or rain dance brought by Fakes in week 9 (see Kristyl's post above).
-Latias is the mon with the most sets, proving his incredible versatility and power in the tier.

Heatran (#3)​

Heatran's sets are pretty evenly split between them and there doesn't seem to be a predominant set. It's also probably the hardest mon to tell what he's running because of this. We have seen everything: SR/Utility, Specs, Scarf, Taunt, Magma Storm, Lava plume Spdef. The latter has seen a lot of play, fitting mostly on bulky balance teams. Heatran's versatility is insane and I expect him to evolve and become even stronger in the meta, even tho is winrate is really low (probably needs a way to deal with Spdef Tar?)

Jirachi (#5)​

-Jirachi has fallen out of the unconstestable top 3 he used to belong to, along ttar and latias, who remain there. For comparison, SPL XVI saw 51 Tyranitar, 44 Jirachi and 43 Latias: the next most used Pokemon was Starmie with only 26 uses. Right now, instead, Ttar and Latias remain well above the rest with 57 and 44 appearances respectevely, but Jirachi is clumped down below with Starmie, Heatran, Gyarados, Zapdos, Metagross, Scizor, Clefable, with only 23 usages, ranked #5. Jirachi's fall is probably caused by the rise in ground types usage after Breloom's nerf, especially Donphan.
-Of course, Jirachi still has insane versatility and has been used in any way imaginable. The most common way to use him seems to be a utility set with Stealth Rock, Iron head, U-Turn/Thunder/Toxic/Body Slam and other utility moves. The common 3 atks+protect Jirachi has seen less usage, even on paraspam, and offensive Jirachi has seen little usage on stall too. Wish Protect has had 3 usages (on semistall) and we've also seen 2 superrachi, 2 TrickScarf lead and 2 Scarf.

Clefable (#6)​

-Clefable is of course very strong right now, both as a support (Knock, sToss, Soft-Boiled/Wish, Twave/Protect/Heal Bell/Encore/ and as a CM sweeper, given that Breloom is her number 1 counter, being immune to knock off and threatening her with supereffective STAB. I think Clefable right now is the most annoying and scary mon when teambuilding semistall, BO and especially balance.

Spinners​

-Starmie is still great, fitting on basically every archetype. Defensive is the most used set, but we've seen a lot of offensive and even 3 SpecsMie.
-Donphan, as said previously, is the #1 winner of the sleep ban, going from a B tier or below mon, to being in the top 10. Great fit on many offensive or balance team, counters ttar, has knock, good bulk and attack. He's probably one of the big reason why Jirachi has fallen below the uncontestable top 3 he used to belong to.

Magneton/zone​

-Magneton (and to a lesser extent magnezone) has seen a lot of usage and should be accounted for whenever building any king of team. We'se seen 6 (33%) shed shell skarmory, meaning measures to counter him are already taking place. We'll see in the future if shed shell play rate increases even more and if stall will then adapt to that.

Bulky Setup Sweepers​

-Scizor has had 20 usages, with 11 of them being bulky SD, 2 offensive SD, and 7 choiced, the latter fitting mostly on BO teams. Bulky SD Scizor is one of the preferred win conditions for many balance/semistall structures, always paired with mag. CM Clefable is the second most used bulky setup sweeper, with 7 out of 20, always fitting extremely well on balance/semistall. We've even seen double win condition with both Clef and Scizor in the same team.
-Quagsire, Gastrodon and Cradily have had 9 usages in total, sometimes being preferred over Clef or Scizor on semistall teams.

Other Notable Pokemons​

-Metagross is really strong, being ranked #6 in usage and having a great win rate. The"utility" set includes both Atk invested and Spdef metagross. Breloom used to threaten him so much since he's in the same speed tier, but now that spore is gone, meta is amazing
-Zapdos is still broken, nothing unexpected. We've seen a lot more toxic on him too. When I see this mon, sometimes I'm happy Clefable exists actually.
-Gyarados is better than ever, either Ddance, defensive and even Choice Band has seen a lot of usage
-Skarmory still strong and featured in most semistall teams
-Rotom is still the #1 spin blocker, but is not as strong as before imo. Defensive is the most used set still, but we've seen a lot of Choice Scarf and even a Choice Specs.
-Flygon is still decent, but not as good as before, since his Choice Scarf sets really struggle to do anything meaningful against semistall. We've had 4 Choice Band usages too (thx to 199 lol). We've had only 1 mixed flygon, which I guess makes sense with the fall of Hazard Stack Offence.
-Breloom is very much worse than before, being extremely frail and slow. Hopefully people will adjust and make him work, I like the shroom.
-Lucario is probably the best fighter alongside Infernape right now and I expect him to become even better with the CM set.
-Bronzong is really good too now, both on BO and semistall.

What I expected to see more of and what I think is underrated/What I liked

-Donphan is really a crazy mon, 120 attack and he learns Head Smash, Seed Bomb, Assurance, Superpower. I believe more offensive sets featuring these moves are underrated, only 1 Donphan was actually offensive, used by Pideus in week 7 here. Maybe other Donphans were actually offensive but they didn't reveal it, so I marked them as standard (meaning EQ, Spin, Knock/Protect/Ice Shard/Stealth Rock). Even Counter, Roar and Toxic could be used on him I believe.
-Heracross, Hariyama and fighting types in general (lucario, breloom, ape) still need to see more usage/adaptation to counter the immense presence of Tyranitar and Clefable and the nerf of Breloom.
-Taunt is underutilized imo. Taunt DD Gyarados is a beast and can completely destroy stall teams, taunt Heatran is good too (only 3 usages). Taunt Gliscor really strong aswell, or even SD. Taunt Gengar too, we've instead seen a lot of Life Orb gengar to wallbreak, which I really liked too. DD Taunt Ttar is maybe good? (idk about this, idt it really fixes its problems).
-Hippowdon?? I expected way more Hippo usage, but we've only seen 8.
-Rhyperior is so strong imo, stupid bulk (sand is almost in every game since Ttar usage is higher than ever) and immense breaking power, but we've seen only 1 use from Pideus in week 5, using the paraspam sample team.
-Toxic Spikes are probably a bit underrated.
-Crocune is slept on now that Breloom is rare.
-I expected to see more toxic protect Metagross.
-I really like powerful wallbreakers such as Specs Empoleom, Specs Starmie, Specs Kingdra, Specs Heatran, Band Gyarados, Band dnite and I would hope to see more of them (even tho they have their issues)
-Interesting sets: SD Abomasnow, Fling+Light Ball lead Empoleon, Life Orb lead Latias, CM Lucario, Chilan Berry Hippowdon, Focus Punch Swampert, Scarf Nidoqueen, Zap Cannon Registeel, Wish Tect Roar Vaporeon, Passho Berry Spdef Steelix, Physically Offensive Celebi, Choice Scarf Roserade
-Shoutout to 199's week 8 team featuring 5 (or 6) choice locked Pokemons, I really like his approach to offense.

Closing thoughts

-I'm a bit unhappy that Breloom fell off this hard, but the meta seems to be healthier now that Jirachi isn't so overwhelmingly powerful. I like that for the first time he isn't way above the rest with Ttar and Lati. Also, not that many sets were ironhead spam or paraspam ironhead, which were previously very used and made him a powerful and RNG dependent win condition. Because of this, he now feels way less oppressive and a more enjoyable presence in the tier with his incredible utility and versatility.
-Also, ThunderWave is less used on many mons in favor of Toxic, which reduces the RNG of games.
 
My bad for posting the predictions late, y'all. To make up for this, I'll make the semifinals post a little cooler (and probably post my predictions). Without further ado, we're on Semifinals and soon to the end of SPL XVIII.
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Gilbert arenas vs Pideous​
Record: 4-5
First SPL Appearance: X, 2019
Other SPL tours: 2020, 2021, 2022, 2024
H2H: 1-1 Record: 8-1
First SPL Appearance: XV, 2024
Other SPL tours: None.

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Skyrio vs Marshall.Law​
Record: 7-2
First SPL Appearance: XV, 2024
Other SPL tours: None
H2H: UnknownRecord: 3-2
First SPL Appearance: IV, 2013
Other SPL tours: 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017

Gilbert arenas vs Pideous
Skyrio vs Marshall.Law

Quick comments from Week 9.
- Eve continues to battle for MVP overall in this SPL.
- 199, Sheik and Fakes are the only eliminated players who ended up positive in the record.
- Marcop needs 2-3 wins to gurrantee tie or positive, Marshall needs 1-2 wins to maintain a tie or positive, and Skyrio is guaranteed to have a positive record by the end of the tournament.
- Teams were a lot more bulky, slightly favoured towards defensive teams, but there were also bulky offenses for what it's worth.
- Still a ton of Double Steel + Ttar teams, but there was triple steel and single steel w/o ttar that appeared.
- Lady Bug finally got his first W in this SPL. A big victory for Tyrants and Lady Bug enjoyers :)
- The direction doesn't completely favour offense or defense, but being bulky is an absolute necessity and there's little chances to see straight HO, or smth like Suicide leads HO as spinning teams have appeared and optimized to approach against these types of teams.
 

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Alright, prediction time!
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Pideous vs Gilbert Arenas
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(60% Pideous/40% Gilbert Arenas)

Am I being too biased towards Pideous? Maybe, since I can’t deny that not only is Pideous the best player in both the Jirachee invitational & the DPP Revival (She scored 3rd, though Gilbert was the winner of the Revival), but is so far the best player in SPL this season. This will be an interesting fight, I have some hope Gilbert could sneak in a victory.
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Marshall Law vs Skyrio
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(48% Marshall/52% Skyrio)

Again, this may be a close match between Marshall & Skyrio, Marshall in the past has climbed 2nd place in the hotly contested Revival tour vs the 2nd best player in this SPL season. I may have underestimated Skyrio a bit since I don’t know them much lol, but this match is indeed the most hype imo.

As for the meta post sleep:
-To no one’s surprise, Tyranitar is rising with 2 fighting types completely neutered (Machamp ban & Spore banned), the rise of Banded Tar even on more offensive teams is surprising contrary to its balanced playstyle. I vaguely remember back when Banded Tar was considered underrated when I first joined Smogon back in 2024.

-Latias rising is surprising, I figured Latias would be slightly worse given her weakness to Tyranitar, but she is the best teambuilding glue for almost any archetype possible! Love it

-I heard of CM Luke rising this season, a bit skeptical since Luke relies on high based power moves, priority, and/or coverage to do damage. I’ve been liking Specs Luke with Luke’s bad 4mss. Feels like the early days of DPP with special Luke revived.

-The rise of Mag balance is quite interesting, another victory of Sleep’s ban

-I do think Fighting types have taken the backseat as of now, but there’s plenty of development with Loom’s potential post sleep ban. I’m surprised there hasn’t been much Bulk Up Looms in SPL. If I were to rank Fighters in DPP, it’ll be: Infernape > Lucario > Breloom > Heracross > Hariyama > Gallade > Hitmontop

-Hot take: I don’t think Roserade is all that bad? Give or take since even when sleep was legal, Rose infamously struggles fitting in Spikes due to an egg move dilemma, it didn’t help the fact that Rose teams did struggle against offense or stall teams that minimize T Spikes. (Superman or Steel spam) But I do think Rest Rose should be given another chance, if even Shaymin is thrown a bone, I don’t see why not for Rose.
 
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