Metagame [SPOILERS] ULTRA SM - Speculation & Discussion

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Aggron and Probopass having niches has nothing to do with Stakataka having a niche. The thing is trash. 290 speed mew being OHKO’d by banded gyro ball isnt that amazing of an ability considering mew is going to be bulky anyways. Also how is Stakataka supposed to set up a trick room for itself and be banded at the same time?
 
Aggron and Probopass having niches has nothing to do with Stakataka having a niche. The thing is trash. 290 speed mew being OHKO’d by banded gyro ball isnt that amazing of an ability considering mew is going to be bulky anyways. Also how is Stakataka supposed to set up a trick room for itself and be banded at the same time?
It’s not supposed to be able to use TR while Banded. It’s about having the option to use TR on non-banded sets, such as Iron Plate. Even without a Choice Band, it’s still doing hefty damage to Mew and even Lando-T with Gyro Ball anyways.

And those niches that were stated on its Rock/Steel counterparts do matter because despite its typing, it won’t be completely unusable as everyone’s saying it will be, just like Aggron and Probopass in the lower tiers having positive traits. While Aggron has strong Head Smashes plus great coverage moves that make it difficult to wall, and Probopass being quite a good pivot, Stakataka has the strongest Gyro Ball in the game, one of the slowest Trick Room Pokemon of all time while also being able to set it itself, and an ability that can enable it to snowball the enemy team, whether you’re running the Lonely natured set for Attack boosts or going for Defense boosts to tank a defensive Lando’s Earthquake at +1.

Stakataka’s going to be an extremely fringe choice for OU, and I don’t see it leaving the C ranks if it ever gets ranked, but it will definitely have a niche.
 


I'm mostly interested on the effects of this particular Pokemon. I feel it's a strong candidate for A- / A rankings, possibly somewhat higher or lower depending on how the meta adapts (or crumbles before) this Ultra Beast. Here is some of the sets I'm particularly interested on, and most people likely.
Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk /252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Naughty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower / Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic / Knock Off
- Trick / Mind Blown / Knock Off

Scarf amps Blacephalon's speed tier, allowing it to pass a lot of threats while maintaining the ability to get a +1 Special Attack from Beast Boost. Trick is a way of crippling some its possible switch-ins like Chansey, but Mind Blown can also be used as a last resort nuke. It can run a variety of Fire STAB, as well coverage, depending on the necessities of your team or your preferences. Psychic is its primary coverage, Knock off is a great choice for utility, given Blacephalon's somewhat decent attack.


Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat / Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic / Hidden Power [Grass / Ground]
- Trick / Mind Blown / Psychic

This set utilizes Choice Specs to maximize Blacephalon's nuke potential. Fire + Ghost is a terrifying STAB combination that can pressure many Pokemon and Cores. Hidden Power Grass and Ground serve as a way to cause considerable damage to TTar and have extra options to hit things like Diancie, Fini, Koko and Keldeo.

Other sets like explosion, calm mind and Z-Variants are also viable and interesting, but these are the two that I feel will dominate the early USUM meta.
 

Yung Dramps

pawsome gaming
is a Pre-Contributor


I'm mostly interested on the effects of this particular Pokemon. I feel it's a strong candidate for A- / A rankings, possibly somewhat higher or lower depending on how the meta adapts (or crumbles before) this Ultra Beast. Here is some of the sets I'm particularly interested on, and most people likely.
Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk /252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Naughty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower / Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic / Knock Off
- Trick / Mind Blown / Knock Off

Scarf amps Blacephalon's speed tier, allowing it to pass a lot of threats while maintaining the ability to get a +1 Special Attack from Beast Boost. Trick is a way of crippling some its possible switch-ins like Chansey, but Mind Blown can also be used as a last resort nuke. It can run a variety of Fire STAB, as well coverage, depending on the necessities of your team or your preferences. Psychic is its primary coverage, Knock off is a great choice for utility, given Blacephalon's somewhat decent attack.


Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat / Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic / Hidden Power [Grass / Ground]
- Trick / Mind Blown / Psychic

This set utilizes Choice Specs to maximize Blacephalon's nuke potential. Fire + Ghost is a terrifying STAB combination that can pressure many Pokemon and Cores. Hidden Power Grass and Ground serve as a way to cause considerable damage to TTar and have extra options to hit things like Diancie, Fini, Koko and Keldeo.

Other sets like explosion, calm mind and Z-Variants are also viable and interesting, but these are the two that I feel will dominate the early USUM meta.
The way I see it, Blacephalon will be the Pokemon that gets lots of usage early on in OU due to its nice Special Attack and new toy syndrome. In the end, however, I think people will eventually realize that it isn't super duper great and it'll die off. That speed stat is so close, yet so far, and that terrible bulk is just gross. Specs gets outsped and KOed by Kartana, Greninja, Latios, Keldeo, Gengar and Mega Lopunny among others, and can be set up on by Mega Gyarados and Tyranitar. Scarf seems like the best set, but even then it has to watch out for Tyranitar and faster scarfers like Latios. It certainly won't be A-, that's for sure. Have fun with it while it lasts.
 
I think blacephalon will be garbage at the beginning of ultrasumo, the things that check naganadel like Av ttar are going to be the new wave so once nagadanel gets banned in mid early ultrasumo garbage like AV ttar is going to die so then blacephalon will rise, also while 107 speed is not that good its enough to revenge kill things like volcarona, Magearna, Happy hour victini, zard x, a weakend adamant mega pert, etc

Also the defog buff means hazards arent going to be annoying for this mon so this mon will be perfect to wallbreak because trully the only counter to him is ttar and garbage like mix toxapex takes 50 to 60% from specs shadow ball and specially defensive toxapex is taking 42% to 49% rolls so if you take SR damage you will probably die in the second hit.

Overheat is the superior choice over mind blown if you are running a firium z set the only diference in power its like 5 bp (Z mind blown is 200 while overheat is 195).

Now mind blown > overheat on specs sets because i feel the damage rolls vs greninja are important because its cool to kill ninjas without rocks.

252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Mind Blown (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Ash: 271-320 (95 - 112.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Ash: 235-277 (82.4 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Also its not dead weight vs ttar like you can burn or weaken ttar so something like stored power mega latias sweeps.
 

Yung Dramps

pawsome gaming
is a Pre-Contributor
the things that check naganadel like Av ttar are going to be the new wave so once nagadanel gets banned in mid early ultrasumo garbage like AV ttar is going to die
Ok, this is getting absurd. Look, I get it, Naganadel is good. It has good coverage with Draco/Sludge Wave/Fire Blast. It has very good Special Attack and Speed. But this idea that it's getting a guaranteed ban is overhyping it, plain and simple.

One of my Smogon/Discord buddies has a server where they programmed in the SM mons/move tutors for use in Custom Game. We had some simulation USUM matches using Naganadel, among other things. What we found is that Nasty Plot Dragonium is one of the most overhyped things in existance. Sure, Poison/Dragon is a good defensive type, possessing only 4 weaknesses. Thing is, all of those weakness (Ice, Ground, Psychic and Dragon) are all common types used by common Pokemon. And with 73/73/73 defenses, it's not like you're going to be soaking up hits like a champion. Nasty Plot Dragonium Naganadel is like every other frail SDer/Nasty Plotter in existance: It can be extremely dangerous if you let it set up, but it'll cave to just about any form of offensive pressure. Remember, Nasty Plot sets will often be unable to make room for U-turn, making it harder for Naganadel to pivot and wear down checks, especially considering how weak U-turn from this thing is (as someone showed earlier, you need to run 80+ attack EVs just to have a chance to KO Hoopa-Unbound with it). And unlike something like Deoxys-Attack, you don't have so much immediate power that you can slap on a Life Orb and sweep without even one boost. You're right, garbage like AV Tyranitar will eventually die out. This is because the Naganadel hype will wither out with it, and people will find checks and counters that are better than freaking AV Tyranitar.

I'm not saying Naganadel will be bad, no, I'm not saying that at all. Hell, I could totally see it in A or A+. But this idea that "OMG so broken it's gonna get suspecteded and banned!!" is just silly. Naganadel is broken? I'll believe it when I see it.
 
Ok, this is getting absurd. Look, I get it, Naganadel is good. It has good coverage with Draco/Sludge Wave/Fire Blast. It has very good Special Attack and Speed. But this idea that it's getting a guaranteed ban is overhyping it, plain and simple.

One of my Smogon/Discord buddies has a server where they programmed in the SM mons/move tutors for use in Custom Game. We had some simulation USUM matches using Naganadel, among other things. What we found is that Nasty Plot Dragonium is one of the most overhyped things in existance. Sure, Poison/Dragon is a good defensive type, possessing only 4 weaknesses. Thing is, all of those weakness (Ice, Ground, Psychic and Dragon) are all common types used by common Pokemon. And with 73/73/73 defenses, it's not like you're going to be soaking up hits like a champion. Nasty Plot Dragonium Naganadel is like every other frail SDer/Nasty Plotter in existance: It can be extremely dangerous if you let it set up, but it'll cave to just about any form of offensive pressure. Remember, Nasty Plot sets will often be unable to make room for U-turn, making it harder for Naganadel to pivot and wear down checks, especially considering how weak U-turn from this thing is (as someone showed earlier, you need to run 80+ attack EVs just to have a chance to KO Hoopa-Unbound with it). And unlike something like Deoxys-Attack, you don't have so much immediate power that you can slap on a Life Orb and sweep without even one boost. You're right, garbage like AV Tyranitar will eventually die out. This is because the Naganadel hype will wither out with it, and people will find checks and counters that are better than freaking AV Tyranitar.

I'm not saying Naganadel will be bad, no, I'm not saying that at all. Hell, I could totally see it in A or A+. But this idea that "OMG so broken it's gonna get suspecteded and banned!!" is just silly. Naganadel is broken? I'll believe it when I see it.
I agree with all thats written here. Its defenses arent good, and priority could destroy him.
Everyone is overhyping it because its a dragon that takes neutral from fairy, the most common attacking type in the meta,
but they forgot that its weak to the second most common - Ice - and the third most common - Ground- so it will get destroyed a lot.
Probably will have a niche in Stricky Web teams. (Also btw Dramps can you pm me a link to that server?)
 
The way I see it, Blacephalon will be the Pokemon that gets lots of usage early on in OU due to its nice Special Attack and new toy syndrome. In the end, however, I think people will eventually realize that it isn't super duper great and it'll die off. That speed stat is so close, yet so far, and that terrible bulk is just gross. Specs gets outsped and KOed by Kartana, Greninja, Latios, Keldeo, Gengar and Mega Lopunny among others, and can be set up on by Mega Gyarados and Tyranitar. Scarf seems like the best set, but even then it has to watch out for Tyranitar and faster scarfers like Latios. It certainly won't be A-, that's for sure. Have fun with it while it lasts.
Yeh have to agree with it you, as far as it's, it'll probably ending up sitting in high tier B-B+ rank, but I'm just saying A- or higher because I have a feeling that this might turn out to be the next Pheromosa, seen as overhyped at first but people ended up using it in a way that makes it disgustingly broken, or it might just die out. I'm still looking out since of all Pokemon that's the least predictable of all at this point. If GF stopped being such trolls with speed stats and give it 110 speed and Focus Blast (or at least make it so you can capture it with 4 even IV's to get HP Fighting), this thing would definitely sit at the higher ups of A, possibly achieving S since it would basically be unwallable and it'd require a lot of scouting and a good revenge killer that isn't 1HKO by it to deal with (or get your TTar and pray for Focus Miss), but I guess it's not good to theorymon. I hope people go to be able to find partners to cover those weaknesses solidly and make this a threat to be considered, the combination of < 110 speed + lack of good fighting / grass move really hurt it must, and I guess this is what'll cost it seat at A / A-, since it'll require considerable support to be a threat.
 
I agree with Gary about Zeraora. I think it’s going to be like Buzzswole was in Sun/Moon. People will look at its stats and think it has a niche as a fast mixed attacker and it’ll start around B-. Then people will realize it’s not even that good at that and will slowly drop until it’s unranked and eventually reaches UU.
 
Doesn't Zeraora outspeed and KO Mega Lopunny + Ash-Greninja? Something that Tapu Koko cannot do? That's a more than decent niche considered that those two things destroy offensive teams? Also, works against offensive teams too since not much enjoy facing that speed and coverage

Another edge over Koko is Close Combat invalidates 2 most common/ annoying Koko switch-ins: Ferrothorn and Excadrill

Fake Out is a cool tech + HP Ice/ Close Combat/ Plasma Fists and Zeraora can stop pretty much all hazard leads including Landorus-T, Greninja, Azelf, Smeargle and Excadrill

It also breaks Toxapex and CelePex too and that's never not good imo.

Also, base 143 Spe only needs 192 EVs with a +Spe nature to outspeed all relevant things so you can put 64 EVs in SpA for your HP Ice calcs for optimal result. You can run 252+ Spe to speedtie with opposing Zeraora but since you'll be clicking Close Combat anw, going 2nd maybe better. Up to you on the Speed EVs.

Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 64 SpA / 192 Spe
Hasty/ Naive Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Close Combat
- Fake Out/ Knock Off/ Volt Switch/ Thunder Wave/ Work Up/ Grass Knot (for those rain teams that double Swampert into this)

Maybe not big enough for the A ranks but B or even B+ seems plausible? C rank or no rank are underselling that speed tier and coverage too much
 
Zeraora is fast, but it isn't very strong, which I think will make it a lackluster cleaner and RKer and I don't know what other role you would use them to fill. Like, pretty much any scarfer faster than Heatran will outspeed this thing, unless Zeraora is running scarf themself. Outside of knock off, volt switch, and thunder wave Zeraora doesn't really offer any utility. Zera doesn't have the bulk or the power to eat hits or threaten switches unless something is weak to electric, already dented, or 4x weak to ice, so I don't foresee a lot of opportunities to set up or use one of those utility options. I just don't know when building an OU team I'll be saying "yeah, this team needs a zeraora."
 
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I’m one of those people who think you guys are underselling Blace. I’m far more interesting in its ghost stab than mind blown actually - the lack of good ghost resists in the tier coupled with its crazy special attack means that you’ve got a crazy powerful spammable attack. Yeah, ttar is a hard stop, but other than that and chansey there’s not much in the way of reliable switch ins.

Scarf is definitely the best set imo - it’s speed tier is perfect for a scarfer and really it’s not gonna mind being locked into ghost stab. That plus beast boost boosting its SpAtk will make it deadly and more than capable of sweeping.

I think it’s solidly A-, but I’ll make a conservative guess of B+. I’ve been wrong before, and faster scarfers+ priority wil be a problem, but I see more limited counterplay to the spooky firecracker clown than you guys seem to, as long as it’s scarfed.

Isn’t theorymonning grand?
 
Zeraora is fast, but it isn't very strong, which I think will make it a lackluster cleaner and RKer and I don't know what other role you would use them to fill. Like, pretty much any scarfer faster than Heatran will outspeed this thing, unless Zeraora is running scarf themself. Outside of knock off, volt switch, and thunder wave Zeraora doesn't really offer any utility. Zera doesn't have the bulk or the power to eat hits or threaten switches unless something is weak to electric, already dented, or 4x weak to ice, so I don't foresee a lot of opportunities to set up or use one of those utility options. I just don't know when building an OU team I'll be saying "yeah, this team needs a zeraora."
But I could imagine wanting an electric spam team, in which Zeraora is paired with a special attacking Koko (probably specs), as plasma fists hits like a truck in Electric terrain. The two can pivot around (u-turn/volt switch), and be really hard to counter, especially once electric immune pokemon are taken out of the picture. Specs HP Ice Koko OHKOs Lando for sure, has a 43.8% chance to OHKO 244 HP/196 SpD Gliscor (which is the most SpD I can see Gliscor running in OU), and can 2HKO Zygarde. Zeraora has a higher SpA, so could also do the job of taking out ground-types with HP Ice, if you wanted to invest more in its SpA and go mixed. In return, Zeraora can take out a ferrothorn, (AV) Mag, Excadrill, and mega-scizor with fire punch - mons that Koko struggles with, and wreck Chansey, especially if it is carrying knock-off or superpower. Heatran would also struggle to switch in as its 2HKO'd by Superpower, regardless of which item Zeraora is using. Some mons still can get around this (mega-v is the one who comes to mind the most, though it wouldn't want to switch into fire punch before mega-evolving).

This doesn't mean it will be meta-defining or anything, but it does show that there are teams in which Zeraora could play an important part, and it can function as a part of an offensive core.
 
I saw that Fini gets Trick through the tutors and I'm wondering if a Specs set is viable now. Fini invites in Pokemon like Chansey, Toxapex (the big one) and Ferrothorn. With how prevalent Toxapex is (#2 in usage) and the anticipated usage it'll have in USUM due to Knock Off, Fini is the only Trick user capable of bringing in Toxapex, which pretty much destroys Toxapex. This is also true for Ferrothorn. Fini can't beat either on its own still, but a Choice-locked Pex is significantly easier for a teammate to break. Additionally, switch-ins like Tapu Bulu or Kartana are actually OHKOed by Specs Ice Beam. With all of the new Defoggers, I've seen people saying that Fini's usage is going down in usage due to increased competition. A Specs Trick set may be what is needed to bring new life into Fini.

It faces competition from Ash-Gren as a Specs Water-type. Ash-Gren has significantly higher power and an awesome speed tier, but it doesn't get Trick, which is Fini's niche. Because of Trick, Toxapex and Mantine (the big counters to Ash-Gren) aren't perfect counters as they don't want to be tricked. You've also got to deal with un-Trickable items like Z-Moves/Mega Stones, but defensive Pokemon don't usually run these items. It's the set I'm most looking forward to trying when Showdown gets the new moves.
 
I saw that Fini gets Trick through the tutors and I'm wondering if a Specs set is viable now. Fini invites in Pokemon like Chansey, Toxapex (the big one) and Ferrothorn. With how prevalent Toxapex is (#2 in usage) and the anticipated usage it'll have in USUM due to Knock Off, Fini is the only Trick user capable of bringing in Toxapex, which pretty much destroys Toxapex. This is also true for Ferrothorn. Fini can't beat either on its own still, but a Choice-locked Pex is significantly easier for a teammate to break. Additionally, switch-ins like Tapu Bulu or Kartana are actually OHKOed by Specs Ice Beam. With all of the new Defoggers, I've seen people saying that Fini's usage is going down in usage due to increased competition. A Specs Trick set may be what is needed to bring new life into Fini.

It faces competition from Ash-Gren as a Specs Water-type. Ash-Gren has significantly higher power and an awesome speed tier, but it doesn't get Trick, which is Fini's niche. Because of Trick, Toxapex and Mantine (the big counters to Ash-Gren) aren't perfect counters as they don't want to be tricked. You've also got to deal with un-Trickable items like Z-Moves/Mega Stones, but defensive Pokemon don't usually run these items. It's the set I'm most looking forward to trying when Showdown gets the new moves.
A specs set is something that has seen a lot of usage on cartridge play and recently in Doubles as well. The bulk is really something to consider, along with the amazing ability in Misty Surge, which will help considerably with the Naga match-up, halving the damage from its most potent STABs. Water/Fairy is a really strong typing both offensively and defensively, with only Ferrothorn, Venu, Pex and Amoongus being able to reliably eat every move, all of which are rather easy to exploit to some degree. I can totally see it used, as defog is now on practically every mon.
Doesn't quite 2HKO max/max AV TTar but it's still rather strong.
 
A specs set is something that has seen a lot of usage on cartridge play and recently in Doubles as well. The bulk is really something to consider, along with the amazing ability in Misty Surge, which will help considerably with the Naga match-up, halving the damage from its most potent STABs. Water/Fairy is a really strong typing both offensively and defensively, with only Ferrothorn, Venu, Pex and Amoongus being able to reliably eat every move, all of which are rather easy to exploit to some degree. I can totally see it used, as defog is now on practically every mon.
Doesn't quite 2HKO max/max AV TTar but it's still rather strong.
Not being able to 2HKO AV T-Tar doesn't mean all that much when T-Tar's not gonna be able to do much back to you. Fini should still win the 1v1 regardless.

On another note, I could see Fini being a pretty cool idea for a partner for AV T-Tar. Not only does it invite all the mons that T-Tar doesn't like going up against and potentially Trick them(Pex, Ferrothorn, Tangrowth ect.), Fini provides Misty Terrain, where Specs Draco and +2 Devastating Drake from Naganadel hit T-Tar like wet paper bags:

252 SpA Choice Specs Naganadel Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand and Misty Terrain: 52-63 (12.9 - 15.6%) -- possible 7HKO

+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand and Misty Terrain: 105-124 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

However, a smart player utilizing Specs Naganadel (which I feel will be a better set than Z-Draco) could simply just U-turn out of the incoming T-Tar, so idk how well this core will do in the long run, but at least it's something to consider.
 
Not being able to 2HKO AV T-Tar doesn't mean all that much when T-Tar's not gonna be able to do much back to you. Fini should still win the 1v1 regardless.

On another note, I could see Fini being a pretty cool idea for a partner for AV T-Tar. Not only does it invite all the mons that T-Tar doesn't like going up against and potentially Trick them(Pex, Ferrothorn, Tangrowth ect.), Fini provides Misty Terrain, where Specs Draco and +2 Devastating Drake from Naganadel hit T-Tar like wet paper bags:

252 SpA Choice Specs Naganadel Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand and Misty Terrain: 52-63 (12.9 - 15.6%) -- possible 7HKO

+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand and Misty Terrain: 105-124 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

However, a smart player utilizing Specs Naganadel (which I feel will be a better set than Z-Draco) could simply just U-turn out of the incoming T-Tar, so idk how well this core will do in the long run, but at least it's something to consider.
I personally think Specs Naga isn't that good of a set, being vulnerable to both rocks and spikes and making it easier to pick off with priority. Moreover, I don't like being somewhat forced into 50/50, fearing the steel on the sludge wave or the fairy on the draco.
It's personal opinion, however. Really good point regardless.
 
I personally think Specs Naga isn't that good of a set, being vulnerable to both rocks and spikes and making it easier to pick off with priority. Moreover, I don't like being somewhat forced into 50/50, fearing the steel on the sludge wave or the fairy on the draco.
It's personal opinion, however. Really good point regardless.
Well, the same issues with hazards + frailty also applies to the Z-Draco set, which I feel will be the most-used set at the start of USM OU. Also, everyone and their mother's going to be running AV T-Tar at the start of this new meta, and imo, having that U-turn access will make a big difference for it, as it can continuously chip at T-Tar's health and give an answer to it a free switchin.
 
The thing I see in Nasty Plot Naganadel is that, if it chooses to click Draco Meteor instead of Nasty Plot, whatever expected to force it out while it was setting up is going to take noticeable damage (unless you are Tapu Koko or Scarf Lele).

It could pull its weight somewhat against offence, but at that point you'd start to wonder why you are running Nasty Plot + Dragonium instead of Specs... or Latios with its ablity to provide support, for that matter.
 
Wait, does Zeroara not get SD/NP? You'd think that something that looks like Lucario and Zoroark would get proper setup moves, right? It was already bad enough that it wasn't part Fighting, smh.

Oh well, I'll have fun using it in UU when the time comes
 
Naganadel isn't going to be uncounterable. Heatran exists and makes its life an absolute hell thanks to the lack of a Ground-Type move and can either phase it out with Roar or go for the KO with Earth Power (did I mention that Heatran knows Taunt, preventing additional Nasty Plots from going off?). Strong Priority is going to be a significant issue, as expected, especially from Bisharp and Mega Scizor. THEN you have the Choice Scarfers that will potshot you if you don't EV/IV spread for a Speed increase from Beast Boost.

Yeah...this thing sounds threatening at best on paper, enough to give plenty of Pokemon issues, but I guarantee that in practice, it will be nothing more than a damn good setup sweeper.

Oh, and before "Well, you can just get 3 Nasty Plots and Z-Dragon Heatran away". If you were allowed to get to that point, maybe Heatran isn't the problem; maybe your opponent was the problem.

tl;dr Stop overhyping Naganadel.
 
Specs/Scarf Naganadel sets are gonna be decent at best. Too many resists to it's stabs.

Scarf will probably be better than Specs as it can snowball easier but I feel like an all out attacker with U-Turn to circumvent it's counters and possibly raw Draconium for the nuke and possible Beast Boost snowball is probably going to end up being it's most relevant set in early USUM after the new toy syndrome has worn off and people realize it won't be as simple as setup a Nplot on a resist for free sweeps.

Also for what it's worth, I think people need to be a bit careful on how they choose to go about dealing with Nadel. Hp Fighting/Ground sets can be a bit problematic for both Tyranitar and Heatran so they aren't gonna be catch all counters.

Edit - New UBs don't get HP Fight.....my b
 
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