Metagame SS Doubles OU

Been meaning to post here for a minute. I have always liked SS DOU and thought it was probably the most overhated gen. It doesn't really have glaring mechanical flaws - terrains are nerfed from SM, crits are 1/24 @ 1.5x, tapu fini exists, etc. Dynamic speed is the one that gets brought up a lot but I think the tailwind clickers in SS are strong but not overtuned like SV Tornadus.

Out of the 4 official DOU tiers in the oldgen circuit I only joined SS and XY cup, my favorite of the two. I spent most of Swiss recycling the double Meteor Beam Tailwind I made with Animus for SCL 2 (you can see some highlights of that in the post above) and a Cosmic Power Metagross + NP Grassy Seed Spectrier team I made at some point.

For top 16 vs ratpacker I built this team and used it in every set I played afterwards (click sprites for paste)
:tornadus: :urshifu: :tapu lele: :necrozma: :amoonguss: :naganadel:

Title says it all, I wanted to see if backporting Tornadus + Urshifu into SS DOU from SV VGC felt good. I chose CB Urshifu to accomplish this because it allowed me to invest in bulk considerably. I really like Life Orb Tornadus but I felt like adding Politoed to the team would end up making it too similar to existing rain teams which a lot of people already build/practice against. So I made the Tornadus run Rain Dance. Unfortunately in gameplay I didn't always have the time to click Rain Dance before going for Hurricane, but hey it's still more accurate than hitting both targets with Bleakwind Storm...

To use a Choice Band Urshifu in SS, you're absolutely going to need some form of priority block. Between Tsareena and Psychic Terrain, I chose the latter as I figured an Urshifu centric team would be good at clearing common Psychic resists. I opted for a WP Necrozma with Heat Wave retroactively after deciding I wanted to run Scarf Naganadel, which was a decision made to get the jump on Dragapult, Scarf Tapu Fini, and the occasionally-still-relevant Scarf Genesect. I preferred it to the Meteor Beam set because I really wanted Fire coverage on this Necrozma and didn't want my only move to hit Incinineroar be a move that I could whiff once and be screwed for the rest of the game. Eject Button Amoonguss rounds out the team to bring it some stability and pressure semiroom as Lele + Amoonguss is typically pretty annoying for these guys.

I generally like these tailwind HO structures in SS a lot. If you're fed up with triple Fake Out teams and looking for something else to try I'd say try out this, the Nihi Steela team, or Dracovish Torn Rain. I hope people will keep building in this tier and pushing it further, I think the potential for this tier to be a well respected oldgen is absolutely there.

Put vish in tier 2 he deserves it.
 
Hihi so I also got a decent run for both SS Cup and SSPL and a bit of free time, so I'll also write about this amazing lovely tier (I hate u SS haters...). Same as the other post, lets get to my completely unbiased rankings:

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I'm going to go straight into my hot takes, and same as the SS writeups, I have no idea about statistics and usage, this will all be on me own experience and what I saw from some tournaments:

:rillaboom: & :tapu-fini: Won't write much about these because they add so much value to the board its insane. They even compliment each other, as Rillaboom can provide extra sustain for Fini and Fini can block status moves like WoW for Rilla. Very dumb mons that can run a plethora of items and do amazing anyway. You can't go wrong adding these two to your team.

:mew: : WOW I'm surprised so many people hate on this thing and rank it T2 or even lower. I think this is an amazing Pokémon, provides so much to every single existing archetype (except like hard weathers) and has the only drawback of being Taunt food (and even then the coverage moves you can run help a lot). You can put Hazards on this thing, status, speed control (in tailwind AND trick room!), fake out, coverage like Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Earth Power, it can be your win condition with Cosmic Power & WP, can even be an annoying utility with Snarl, Encore, hell this thing is amazing. When SS was current gen I was even thinking this deserved a suspect test. Not anymore because Fini & Rilla are kinda better now but yeah, this thing is just goated.

:urshifu-rapid-strike: : Ok, this mon is actually very good. When you use the good sets. Can you people PLEASE stop using Assault Vest? Sure you tank so many hits and you are able to pivot out of many situations, but man Shifu doesn't want to be a pivot, it wants to nuke shit. AV is only good when your opponent gifts 3 turns for you to Coach it. I gave it a chance in one of my games and never again, thing SUCKS. I agree with zee's above post though, Shifu might want some sort of bulk, but damn not 252 hp 252+ spd AV.

:zeraora: : Another Pokémon I'm surprised it has been rated so low. Only real set is 252 HP one, offensive is whack, but this thing provides again so much utility while having a very solid STAB to hit the popular water type Pokémon on the tier. It can also Knock Off items, spam Coaching, Taunt stuff, and let's not forget Fake Out. U can even run "weird" moves for this tier like Snarl, Blaze Kick, and even funny moves like Fling to self-proc Weakness Policy + Berry. Even in games where it faces Zygarde + Double Grass it has some sort of utility. I can see it being Tier 3, but imo has enough to barely be a T2.

:dracovish: : 80 + 80 = 1600. The pressure this thing creates is MASSIVE. Probably the Pokémon that punishes the most when you play it aggresively and barely leaves a chance for opponent to come back once it picked 2-3 good turns. You can run it anywhere, and however you like it. It can be Band on Tailwind Rain teams, it can be scarf on speed control-less teams, it can be Band on Sand Tailwind teams, it can even be a funny item like Safety Googles, Mystic Water, etc etc with Sub Protect. Same case as Zeraora, I can see this on Tier 3 as well since it's very easy to run a Prio Spam team or redirection Pokémon like Amoonguss or Indeedee and it will lose a lot of momentum, but yeah you can't deny the pressure it creates.

:pheromosa: : I only noticed it on finals, but there are a lot of teams that suffer to this thing. And do you know what the best set is? CHOICE BAND. You can nuke 252 HP Zeraora with Close Combat, has a good chance to KO 252 HP Mew with U-Turn, its so funny! But yeah I guess boring LO and Sash are also usable sets. Anyway this thing is like Dracovish but harder to enable and easier to kill. Still, I think it's a very good pick, and I hope to see it more on future tournaments!

:whimsicott: This thing was pretty bad when SS was a current gen, but somehow is now very good? It's an amazing fit for HO teams, packs disrupting moves such as Taunt and Encore, and is able to help your teammate with Fake Tears (if its special attacker only). Ngl I forgot this existed and loaded some teams with no speed control and almost costed me the game lmao but yeah it is actually very good and you should consider it on your builder!
Note: :tornadus: not having funny Bleakwind move makes it not that great for this generation, but has seen some usage this SSPL with so much weather being around. I don't think its better than Whims but still very usable if you want it for a specific purpose.

:torkoal: :tyranitar: Weather :politoed: :ninetales-alola: : I think most weathers are fine. Imo, its rain > sun > sand >>>>> hail, but yeah basically all of them are usable. Rain abusing Pokémon deal massive damage even to their ressists, and virtually OHKO anything that is neutral. Kingdra is in a rough spot though, it has a super weak Muddy Water and it's always bad when you rather click the Draco button or Hurricane button instead of funny spread damage one. Sun is great imo and should be on the rise. When I started SSPL I saw so many Double Water teams having success at DPL, so I went and brought Venusaur team back. I didn't face what I was expecting to face when I loaded it, but it still did a good ammount of work. Sand can be disrupting to a lot of teams because you can enable the two broken fossils, and sand cheap is great to pick up KOs you previously weren't picking up (An example being Mew for Dracovish if you aren't band). Hail... well, its a funny weather, you'll have fun if you load it :D!

:diancie: Trick Room :porygon2: : Ngl I think Gen 8 Trick Room is probably the strongest Trick Room we have on Fairy Gens. A lot of Pokémon that like to be on Trick Room deal massive damage to a lot of "standard" structures. Thing is you have to perfectly use your turns on Trick Room or you will stay behind even if you have the speed control, and the most important thing that is often overlooked, is how is your position when Trick Room ends. A lot of games are actually decided on this turn!

:metagross: :zygarde: (The DD one) Set-Up :spectrier: :mew: (The Cosmic Power one) : I think set-up is in a very rough spot right now, specially bulky one. With so many powerful spread moves in Choice Specs Muddy Water, Choice Band Thousand Arrows, and opponent running Coaching, you are very often left behind even if you succesfully click 1-2 times your setup move. Its very easy to pivot with current meta and get yourself a good position to counter the setup, and support Pokémon aren't really doing a great job at supporting their partner. If anything I think you're better building a Coaching spam team than a set-up one lmao.
Note: Ferrothorn is currently the best bulky setup the tier has and will absolutely annihilate you if you let it setup or sacrifice the Pokémon that had the Fire-type move. Do NOT underestimate it.

And honestly I got tired from typing LOL so I won't do more, maybe if I remember anything else I wanted to say I'll edit but yeah.

In conclusion, I think SS is currently in the same state SM was 2 years ago, where people think it's solved and it has stagnated. I don't think that at all. And proof is me doing very well in SSPL without abusing the brokens. (Well not in all my games at least hehe). I don't think we'll see much innovation for this years Old Gens Invitational, but I hope and pray that we do on 2025. SS is genuinely a super fun tier where you can actually use a good chunk of Pokémon and do well, it's just a matter of trying!

Finally, I'll leave my SSPL dump and a small desc of how the team came to be for anyone willing to give another try to this tier. Not the most exciting builder but hey at least I'm not loading double water / 3 brokens all weeks >:C .
(Click on opp name for replay and sprites for the team)

W1 (W) & W2 (W) vs eragon & bagel :venusaur::torkoal::diancie::necrozma::indeedee::naganadel:

I expected some sort of "just using brokens" from both players. By first week I thought that the brokens were those type of double water teams, and since they did very well in DPL I was expecting some sort of team like that. I remembered a VenuKoal team I used for 2022 OSDT and thought it was great into a lot of these teams, so I updated it slightly and used that heh. I got 80% of what I expected from eragon, but not from bagel. Fortunately for me I managed to win both games!

W3 (W) vs umbry :zapdos: :dracovish: :ferrothorn: :porygon2: :tsareena: :politoed:

Ngl I had no idea what to bring vs umbry. I think I went something like "ok umbry didn't really play SS, so I will bring broken rain because that team is always good blind pick heh" and bingo I got Nails Stack team, a very good matchup for me. I got a bit lucky dodging Fini Muddy with P2 but even then I think I had a very solid position at that point, that just rushed and sealed the game.

W4 (W) vs luisin :urshifu-rapid-strike: :tapu-fini: :mew: :dragapult: :genesect: :incineroar:

I had never loaded double water teams so I said "u know what lets do that today". I couldn't find any reference team to help me build it, so it ended up being this abomination LOL. Probably the worse team from the builder, I wouldn't use it. Also it has AV Shifu :nauseated: . Funny game where I won thanks to luisin running the 252 hp 252+spdef Urshifu set because I was piloting this pretty badly XD.

W5 (W) vs sempra :dracozolt: :dracovish: :tyranitar: :tapu-lele: :necrozma: :amoonguss:

Iirc sempra didn't play SS and only had a small SSPL scout so I decided to bring one of my favorite teams from all time cuz it seemed to do well into it, the Double Fossil Sand. I actually wanted to bring all 4 weathers and this was a very good chance to bring Sand. This team creates a lot of pressure with very little, altough you can insta lose if you get your reads wrong heh. Still, team is very fun to play. I had a heart attack in game when Heatran Eruption dealth 95% to Dracozolt LOL but outside of that I thing it was pretty linear plays.

W6 (L) vs Chris0394820393459023 :tornadus: :dracovish: :ferrothorn: :porygon2: :tsareena: :politoed:

Ok so I was actually scared of Chris because they have a very unique style that I don't like playing against consisting mainly on either Diancie & Torkoal Trick Room teams or extremely unhinged HOs with the likes of Life Orb Protean Cinderace Sun. I ended up loading what bagel did (idk what week but I saw bagel doing this change on one of his games) with Torn > Zapdos to help keep the weather with Rain Dance. Little did I know I would face a double redirect + Coaching & DD Kyurem, basically the best you can come up with to deal with these type of rains. I got owned hard and even if I hard haxed, it didn't matter because of how well Chris prepped. Very good and creative team! I wasn't glad I lost ofc but I was very happy something like this was used!

W7 (W) vs Enzonana :stakataka: :necrozma: :tapu-lele: :togedemaru: :amoonguss: :porygon2:

Now, this week was great. For a second there, imagine you don't know DOU. Your team is 4-4, and REQUIRES a win in order to get to playoffs. 9th game was ruled as Dead Game, and the last game is this Akaru Kokuyo dude who you see has a good record but don't really know. You see the game linked on general channel, and you open the link and see this. What would you do?
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LOL now for real, I remember Nana being TR weak when he played the tier, and I really really didn't want to use those boring ahh Trick Room teams (or Hard TR ones). So I remembered Togedemaru existed, but I didn't want to use the Tapu Fini variant. Then luisin brought a Lele variant vs bagel and it enlightened me. I asked him for the team and loaded it. Game went great, P2 got an amazing lead and just kept getting all the turns correct and dealing massive damage + Amoonguss got insane value with Spores. At the end poor Togedemaru didn't get to do anything but it was still going to put up work if it ever was on a clean turn. To the playoffs we go!

Semis (W) vs luisin :genesect: :kyurem-black: :mew: :volcanion: :rillaboom: :zeraora:

Since this was semis I decided no more playing around and load 2/3 brokens. By this point luisin had a fairly bulky-offense style so I decided to go with Prio Hazard Stack. I got a solid matchup and team did precisely what it wanted to do, sealing the game fairly early after using the goat Roar Volcanion set. This was a DPL team from MADARAAAAAAAAAAAAAA so shoutouts to him for this one!

Finals (W) vs umbry :mew: :zygarde: :pheromosa: :rillaboom: :volcanion: :tapu-fini:

Okay so for finals I was sure I wanted some sort of Pheromosa team, I just wasn't sure what type of team. I have never really used Pheromosa so I was in some trouble, but then I saw Band CC ohkoed Zeraora and went and loaded that. I decided to load 4 status moves Mew because I didn't see a single Taunt Pokémon from her and thought it was very good value overall even if it can be passive af. Also double WoW was a recommendation I got from AIRedzone (who I'll s/o at the end!) and it ended up working pretty nicely as I burned 4 Pokémon, 2 of which were physical threats.

This game was near perfect-played by umbry who didn't give me a single chance to abuse what I had + I forgot Thousand Waves was a thing and got my Mew + Mosa locked in a horrible position (specially Mew since it was WoW-locked thanks to a previous Choice Scarf Trick). I had to get every single turn correct at the end, which I did except the turn where I didn't protect Volcanion (expecting a focus into Zyg). At that point I thought it was lost, but then she choked and clicked Knock Off instead of Parting Shot, which allowed me to live Ice Beam thanks to Sub and KOd the rest of her Pokémon. I'm not sure what happened here, but I can only assume she went through the same scenario I did some years ago where I completely forgot Coaching boosted Defense as well. At the end, a W is a W, so we take it! And rest of the team was also very very good and we ended up winning the entire thing!

Huge shotout to AIRedzone for helping with input for the teams. I was unable to test much because of our timezone but the tips were very helpful heh.
I also want to shoutout Slowpoke Fan becase they were a great manager and was always cheering for the entire team. Got to see you're an amazing person, and genuinely happy to see you win this after knowing how much work you put "behind the curtains" for this Generation!
 
I won't be playing SS Cup but I wanted to post some cool sets for people looking for ideas. I don't claim all these sets to be mine but if you're newer to the tier they probably wouldn't catch your eye right away.

:accelgor:
Accelgor @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit
- Acid Spray
- Encore
- Protect

You can also use moves like Struggle Bug, Spikes, or Toxic Spikes. This pairs really well with a Life Orb or Choice Specs Tapu Lele. Since most people have learned Tailwind is the way to go in this tier, you can fight back with something that holds up pretty well against Tailwind offenses. Accelgor has a solid 80 HP, which is more than the Tapus have, and you even pick up guys like 4 HP Zygarde. Acid Spray calcs do go hard with the aforementioned Lele sets.

:tapu fini:
Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Icy Wind
- Trick

Have a few Scarf users, first off, Fini. Scarf Fini is a pretty well known set at the upper level, though CM is probably the first set you'd think of at first glance. CM is fine, but Scarf Fini takes advantage of the fact that Water/Fairy is actually a great offensive type and the defensive typing + naturally bulk leads to it trading 2:1 often. Most people use Ice Beam or Muddy Water in the highlighted slot but I think more people should be using Icy Wind. It's a really great tech, goes hard at winning Tailwind mirrors and pairs well with powerhouses like CB Zygarde, Meteor Beam Nihilego, etc.

:cresselia:
Cresselia (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Trick
- Lunar Dance

This is basically just a lower powered version of the Fini set, though the idea is that you get a similar offensive/defensive profile without adding a Pokemon that's threatened by Naganadel if you're already running something like Rillaboom + Zygarde and don't wanna be too vulnerable to the mon. Also nobody really uses this so you're much more likely to cheese a setup mon with Trick.

:naganadel:

Naganadel @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

Big fan of Scarf Naganadel if you couldn't tell by my last post in this thread. It kills things it shouldn't, because anything faster than a regular Naganadel is getting OHKOed by this one. You can run Timid to outspeed Kingdra in rain, but Kingdra rain usage has kinda fallen off and getting Speed Beast Boosts is pretty annoying.

:urshifu:
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Band
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 44 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Poison Jab

Really specially bulky CB Ursh. If I remember correctly I EV'd this to live Life Orb Pult's attacks. I think this is a bit better than the AV set because you actually kill things, specifically you're OHKOing Incineroar and most Porygon2.

:zygarde:
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 208 HP / 176 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Coil
- Scale Shot
- Protect

A bit funny but I think it's a powerful set. Really cool if you pair it with something like Rilla + Blastoise. The speed EVs let you outrun Modest Dragapult after a Scale Shot. Theoretically you could drop Scale Shot and just run full on Coil with Misty Seed Fini or do double terrain stuff but I think this set hates Encore pressure so you probably want redirection.

:zapdos:
Zapdos @ Misty Seed
Ability: Static
EVs: 196 HP / 96 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave / Hurricane / Toxic
- Tailwind
- Roost

Zapdos with a SpDef boost has a crazy good matchup into the tier's common teams, especially as I've been noticing Zygarde usage falling in the recent tours. Even though it isn't hitting neutral targets for much damage, you also aren't being threatened by much either. Non Prankster Tailwind is definitely less desirable now, but running this with priority users like CB Gene definitely makes it feel a bit less bad.
 
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