Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

[AM]

C+ -> A: Memerat because it looks absolutely ridiculous but the Memerat Zeroara has been putting in a lot of work in SPL and it's getting spammed a lot in OST. Memerat despite its colorful and silly appearance puts in a lot of work against most offensive archetypes outside of maybe sand. Hippo one of its better checks is sniped with Toxic and things like Defensive Lando-T, aka the diet version of Hippo, are on a timer so its easy to have Zeroara put in work late game to.

B -> A-: Second best Spike setter after Ferrothorn honestly a bit baffled of how useful this was as I used it a lot more and watching it in the early stages of OST. Helps with not getting floored completely by things such as Garchomp, Lando-T, Kartana, most physical attackers. Like Ox convincing me about Dragapult I can admit when I'm wrong and Skarm is actually very good.

A+ -> A-: Sub/3 attacks pad is very good (Sub variants in general), but for as strong as it is this mon is largely a matchup fish currently due to the influx of Corviknight/Skarmory/Ferrothorn. Either it'll put in a lot of work against offensive teams or if it's under Trick Room, or it'll do nothing because one of its defensive checks is alive and well. It'll probably be a bigger threat as stuff goes but for now a drop is warranted.

A- -> A: Above Skarmory due to pressure stalling, being the preferred stall staple, and part of the cancerous Bro/Gking/Corviknight builds that don't die. I mean this thing forces Garchomp to SD twice to even have a chance of breaking it so it doesnt run out of Edges in 4 turns (Fire Fang Chomp is unexplored though and I expect people will catch on soon). A lot of the points above about Skarm outside of the Spikes setting applies to it to but it's a staple at this point.

A -> A-: Fini isn't as bad as people make it out to be but its definitely gotten worse with the increase of Gunk Shot Ace, Koko, Zeroara, G-King, Kartana just to name the most basic issues.

A -> A+: Ursh-S leaving tier made this thing not overrated and its spammed stupid crazy. Pretty brainless mon, paired with brainless abusers. One of 3 consistent checks to Cinderace can run coverage options in Ice Beam to deter the very strong SD Chomps roaming around.

B+ -> A-: Very anti-meta pick in what it can annoy especially if there's no G-King present on your build, hard to cover all the variances in it such as Specs, Sub/Roost, Metronome, etc. The Dragon Dance set is being explored which I dont think that set is very good but thats independent of the more relevant former point. It's better than most of the stuff in its current rank imo.

A- -> A+: Once upon a time Finch was trying to make Giga Impact Kartana good. That didn't pan out so well but luckily for him his favorite mon has been a major threat in recent times with the combination of SD, Band, or Scarf sets. Other fringe options being used as well but these are the big 3 sets used and they're all very effective and need to be accounted for in the builder. The increase of Kartana checks such as Corviknight is a good indicator of this.

B - B+: Similar to Kyurem except not as good but generally better than the B rank stuff. Rips through fat, exploits the RegenBro cores spammed by clickers and Teleport spammers. HDB, Pads, SD, Band to break defensive stuff is the merit in Craw. It isn't a perfect mon but metagame trends favor it currently.

This post is kind of long so to summarize with some other noms without the pics Regieleki is fine being moved down to B- even C+. I think a lot of the hate for it doesnt account thats a guaranteed way to keep hazards off the field with Rapid Spin HDB set. I know Steez spams this a lot and independent of what people think of his team his Regieleki will usually help him win the hazard games long term. I run similar teams to that with Regi Spin, Spike Stack, Ground, fast offensive mon, two support options since they look pretty similar anyways. I would bump up Ursh-R, I think the whole being outclassed shitty Ursh-S bit of a meme as well. Helmet annoys it but it has ways to bypass this in the form of Pads or Bulk Up / 3 attacks with Pads as well which provide a different dynamic. Nothing new it's also strong in rain, I would actually use this + Kingdra before I use Barraskweda because I think Barra is a victim of the punishment of contact attack but more importantly is very prediction reliant in the amount of Slowbro, Pex, Ferros being used now. Reuniclus, Quagsire, Thundurus-Therian, Terrakion, Keldeo, Weavile, Bisharp should move up because they're better than what their ranks indicate. Would move Mandibuzz, Clef, Latios, Blaziken, Zarude, Rotom-Heat down because they're not as good as the rank they're currently in.

 

[Katy]

I definitely agree with Zeraora rising, not to A now, because I think that is a bit of a stretch and I want to see what it does in the future, but it is all in all a great pick currently, with threatening a huge amount of Pokemon currently, such as Tornadus-T, it can help vs Tapu Koko which recently started to run Specs more often, it can threaten Dragapult with a super effective Knock Off and furthermore threaten other Pokemon with its great coverages. Its great Speed tier puts it even above Dragapult and therefore it has a great natural Speed tier to add great Speed control onto a team without slapping a Choice Scarf onto it. I feel with Zeraoras traits and recent success in tournament games it deserves to rise.

Agree here too, this Pokemon gets better again, especially on Balance Builds alongside Galarian Slowking and Toxapex, it can excel its role perfectly as a ground-immune and Semi-Tapu Lele-switch-in. I think this Pokemon can excel its role as a Defogger perfectly with so many Garchomp, and especially Landorus-T around, as it checks them well, which is appreciated for Galarian Slowking and Toxapex.

It's time to rise this boi a subrank, it performs well and is an appreciated check to Landorus-T, Cinderace, and Excadrill, which are highly threatening currently. It does what it does and it does it well, supporting its teammates with Future-Port which forces the opponent to play differently. Scald is also an annoying move and there isn't a Pokemon which can just come in freely on Slowbro.

I've played with it myself and I have to say the more I use it, the more I fall in love with it. Its great Special Attack and good STABs alongside amazing coverage is great and I feel not only the Choice Specs-set but also the Sub+DD-set proves to be a menace in the current metagame.

I don't see it nearly as much as I saw it in the past, It didn't show much in recent tournament games as well. Melmetal can still be a threat in the right matchups and conditions but I feel the metagame adapted to it pretty well, therefore I would drop it.

1 SubRank higher. Appreciated, does well in Tours, and is a great blanket check to many Pokemon in the tier; especially the ever dangerous Magearna. It can also dish out a good chunk of damage with its natural good Special Attack and great coverage options. This Pokemon definitely should rise in my opinion.


To my Own Nom:

Recent tournament games shows that this Pokemon has anything but a downfall, this Pokemon excels with success, the Heavy-Duty Boots-set is really great and spamming either Wisp or T-Wave really is appreciated with plenty of hard hitting threats. Setting it above Cinderace in a natural way is really appreciated while not being locked into a Choice Scarf. I feel this Pokemon is also a great offensive emasure against broken horse Spectrier with Infiltrator blowing through its Sub+CM-set and I feel Choice Specs will rise as well again. But right now it showed it has the potential to be more and therefore I would rise it 1 SubRank.

 

[Kazt_5]

There are a lot of changes to the VR that can be discussed, but I feel this are the most important ones in terms of relevance to the current metagame. There are a lot of mons that I would change but can see arguments for it not being higher or lower on the VR. But the changes I decided to include I feel are some of the more objective ones so here they are.

Rises:
A+ to S No other mon can outmatch the versatility on this mon, it puts constant pressure on every single game it's in and especially paired with future sight support there is almost no counter to this mon. With the only 2 real consistent checks being Toxapex and Hippowdon (which isn't that good). It can pick its checks and counters and overcome them in almost every single match, this is the best mon in the tier.

A to A+ Grassy Glide and Grassy Terrain support for the team makes this mon one of the most splashable mons in the tier. With the strongest priority in the tier, a good movepool, a good number of sets and grassy terrain support for good teammates such as Heatran and Magnezone, this is one of the best mons available.

A- to A Best counter to specs Magearna, giving such a strong offensive presence while being a defensive mon. Good spdef wall all around and Future Sight support, this mon can really fit in any team.

A- to A Band, Scarf and SD Life Orb, all effective sets that can easily defeat an unprepared team. With the possibility to snowball pretty fast thanks to Beast Boost and its massive physical attack, great sweeper and wallbreaker overall.

B to A- One of the main Stealth Rockers in the tier beating both Moltres and Zapdos trying to defog, good bulk physically and specially. Great pivot, the ability to easily cripple many fat mons with a toxic and a good check to mons like Heatran, and every ground weak mon that can't OHKO it, easy to fit in a team.

C+ to B Only notable set is Choice Band but it is enough to push it to this rank for how hard it can break teams that doesn't have a specific resist to it. It have some respectable bulk with its base 90 in all defenses and HP it can switch in in resisted attacks and punsih back with its devastating STAB combination. With it's speed and ability to punish defog and intimidate from Landorus-T it is basically the good version of Bisharp.

NOTE: I'd put Tapu Lele and Tapu Koko in A rank , and make cases for Volcarona, Crawdunt, Dragonite and Hawlucha being B+, but I can see arguments against that so I decided not to include them. Other candidates of rising could be the dark types Obstagoon, Weavile and Kroodile to between B and C+, Zeraora is also another candidate.


Drops:
A+ to A It is still an amazing wallbreaker with ridiculous amounts of bulk and attack, but the meta now have adjusted in a way that it can't really do whatever it wants. Every good team have something for Melmetal, the incredible amount of rocky helmet in the meta punishes it really hard without including Flame Body and Static from Moltres and Zapdos respectively. But it is still a versatile mon that can punch holes in a lot of enemy teams and it is one of the best answers to set up Magearna, so A is fair for it.

A to B+ It is outclassed by every other ground type in the tier and other steel types can fit its role as a fairy counter, suicide lead doesnt do enough impact in a game to justify using it, more and more teams have something for its STABs, it is outclassed as a rocker, and rapid spin suppport isnt as good with the amount of rocky helmet in the tier. It is still a pretty good sand rush mon, and it can sweep in some really really niche cases. But it is outclassed in both offense and utility.

A-to B+ It is a pretty good spdef wall, but without the ability to reliable recover, it is worn down pretty easily by players who now how to punish it, only notable trait is countering Spectrier and Volcarona, setting sand and stealth rock support. It is decent at its roll but not good enough in most cases.

A- to B+ Out of all the birds in OU that use boots this is the one that gets worse the hardest when it loses them. Being one of the best checks to Rillaboom and Kartana it cant even switch in into knock off from both of them, with so many mons with knock off such as Toxapex, Clefable and even Ferrothorn, it will be crippled 80% of the game its in making it practically useless. But when it fulfills its role its still one of the best answers Rillaboom, Kartana, Melmetal and Cinderace plus having the ability to being a good spdef mon too checking Heatran and others. In conclusion too HBD reliable so not that good.

A- to B+ It is great at what it does but with so many good water type and spdef wall options it is pretty hard to justify fitting it in any team. Being outclassed by Blissey most of the time, and by other water types such as Tapu Fini and Toxapex. When it is so easy to overlap it with other mons, this is the mon that almost always gets dropped in favor of other mons. Most notable trait is being a good counter to Nidoking and Latios. It separates itself from other spdef walls with its Future Sight + Teleport, but in this regard usually isnt the best option when it comes to that. In general, it is a good mon but too hard to justify using it.

B+ to B Only real use this mon have is in sand teams, where in some cases it even isn't the best option. Amazing move in bolt beak and mix attack options, but it only have one niche that isn't the best in this meta.

B+ to B Good answer to ground and grass types, but too passive in some ways, and its miserable spdef stat hinders it, hard to justify using it.

B+ to B- It is too niche to justify having it higher on the list. It can win games in some cases but most team can deal with it, and it some cases it is even outclassed by calm mind Tapu Fini. In general, too niche and usually not that big of a reward.

B to B- Not really that strong and too niche to pick it over other dark types like Hydreigon. It can surprise a lot of teams with its great offensive potential but with it speed and lack of reliable recovery there isn't many reasons to use it.

B to B- Being weak to u-turn is really big, and with most teams having at least one mon with it without including the best mon in the tier Cinderace, it won't accomplish many things most of the time. It have a hard time trying to set up and its only real use is being a counter to Spectrier and Garchomp if you need that. Time will only make it worse.

B to C+Honestly not very good, could even be lower, only notable thing is stealth rock and sometimes making its way with Iron Defense + Body Press, but there is almost no reason to use this mon, it suffers more than Tyranitar from not having reliable recovery, and every offensive option is very predictable and easily stopped.

NOTE: I decided to put more on the drops as those are the most deceptive ones and the ones that can cost you more when you use them out of place without knowing it. There could be other drops but there isn't another important one that comes to my mind.


I hope this was a good case and explaination for the changes I think should be made on the VR, or at least a good read. Feel free to add to this changes or explain why or if you disagree with them

 

[BT89]

C+ ---> B+

I have solidly confirmed that I want Zeraora in B+. I definitely understated Zeraora on my first post. It is good against quite a few threats, namely Tornadus-Therian, and although it hits like a wet noodle, it's more so a chip mon anyways. It does have real issues with Grounds but is able to Toxic spam against them.

C+ ---> B/B-

I also underrated Keldeo. It is able to outspeed numerous threats and is greatly benefitting from the decreasing usage of Tapu Fini. It is able to use its Sub Calm Mind set to beat would-be checks such as Toxapex. Overall, solid mon

C+ ---> B

Reuniclus is an overall solid Pokemon after Urshifu leaving the tier. It will only get better after Spectrier leaves. It is able to sweep teams with CM and AV sets that deal good damage to quite a few relevant Pokemon in the tier. It will still hate the Ghosts that have proven to most likely become relevant after Spectrier leaves, mainly Blacephalon, but overall, this embryo is a solid pick.

 

[Zneon]

Okay, going over my opinions on the noms.

Tornadus-T: A+

Definitely agree with this. Tornadus-T is an absolute unit right now, and I think it shows with its ridiculous usage in SPL. Tornadus-T is such a reliable and consistent Pokemon at what it does, it outlasts stuff, Nasty Plot is one of the scariest wallbreakers the metagame has to offer right now and it is an amazing offensive utility machine with its standard Defog set. It can very reliably do what your team needs it to do, its insane longevity, its amazing Speed tier and pretty good bulk makes it so useful and it's definitely one of the best Pokemon in the tier right now. Tornadus-T to A+.

Slowking-Galar to A

Galarian Slowking at this point is a metagame staple. It provides teams with unvaluable defensive utility and I think it's usage in SPL along with how it time and time again shows results with its AV set along shows just how amazing this Pokemon truly is, it plays offense with on defense and it works because of how infuriating it is to switch into, especially due to Sludge Bomb. It's pretty self explanatory so I won't go too in-depth with this but it deserves to rise a subrank.

Swampert to A-

I very much disagree that Swampert should rise, if anything I think it's more worthy of a drop that a rise in my opinion even though I don't think it should drop, it really isn't a good Pokemon. It has some pretty good traits like being a volt blocker, rocker and pivot but it tries to do all these roles at once which makes it much more passive in practice I feel than it would be on paper. Because of this I think it's harder to use than something like Landorus-T or Garchomp since they are both strong yet very useful in their defensive utility, Swampert doesn't have that luxury. I think Swampert is fine where it is and I don't expect it to get that much better overtime.

Zeraora to B+

Okay so people did nominate this previously but I want to nominate it to a certain rank and that will be B+ because I feel Zeraora has gotten better over the past few weeks. I talked about it before when talking about SPL last week and it still shown to be great. It's a very potent offensive pivot with the right support, it does massive work. Being faster than Spectrier, Cinderace and Dragapult in this metagame is a very invaluable niche and that combined with its ability to force switches and you got a Pokemon that can make progress even with a Ground-type on the opponents team, but with support like Toxic support from something like Landorus-T and Knock Off you can just wear them down since almost all of them do not have reliable recovery. It's just a great Pokemon and deserves to rise up a bit.


My own nomination:

Landorus-T/Garchomp to S

I feel that one of these Pokemon if not both should rise to S rank in my opinion and to be honest I have no idea which one should. Landorus-T and Garchomp, in my opinion, are complete pillars of the metagame and the huge impact they have can be seen on any team that they are on, and that on its own makes them S rank Pokemon.

Landorus-T is the Pokemon that is easily one of the most splashable and consistent Pokemon in the metagame. It glues together almost a large portion of viable teams and team archetypes in the metagame because of its attributes alongside its versatility, meaning that at least one of its sets is going to fit onto your team. Suicide Lead, Choice Scarf, Defensive, Swords Dance hell I've even used Double Dance Landorus-T on hyper offense before, and because of this Landorus-T is never a deadweight Pokemon in my eyes, it always does something useful in a game whether its checking numerous top tier threats like Cinderace and Magearna, being one of the most important Pokemon for hyper offense or being a great form of Speed control. Landorus-T is the ultimate glue mon in my eyes and deserves to rise.

Garchomp is also outstanding and is defining enough in my eyes in the context of the metagame to make it rise from A+. It's also insanely easy to fit it onto any team because of how much it adds to them, whether as a defensive tank or a very potent wallbreaker / sweeper with Scale Shot. Its very hard to go wrong with Garchomp much like Landorus-T because it always does something, and despite the fact that I think it's worse than Lando-T I don't think it's really that far behind. Checking multiple Pokemon like Cinderace, Heatran, Zapdos and Magearna, all of them being great Pokemon while also being a potential wincon that fits on almost every team that isn't too far into the defensive spectrum is huge and despite the those two sets it hasn't gotten any worse, and becomes better as time goes on.

I feel Landorus-T and Garchomp are both very much worthy of being S rank even though I don't find them to be good as Magearna or Cinderace because I think the gap between Magearna and Cinderace and these two are extremely wide, so I think a S- rank should be considered somewhat.

Hope you guys liked this post. What are your thoughts on Lando and Chomp? Do you think both should rise? Do you think neither should rise? Or do you think one of them rise and the other stays in A+. I'd love to see your thoughts. Thanks for reading!

 

[Pokeglace17]

A+->A
Let's look at the best mons in the tier.
can check it, i would not want to take a specs volt switch
Only reason pex is used at all
Stare battle, except cm with thunder would win vs pex
Free knock, free leech seed, free spikes: NICE!
Omegalul
Traps it
Yeah, I would not want to take an eq
Sure a viable check, but slowbro does it better
you love those sweet specs shadow balls, those taunts etc.
It makes itself nonviable! Poof! No more toxic spikes!
Omegalul
Better have toxic
Most are choice band, so...
knock + t spikes can help, but in the end, still free future sight
Free setup. Better maintain these tspikes.
Better have toxic! Cannot check anyway.
Yeah, no.

Almost all mons in S, A+ and A beat it. Get it down from A+

 

[Obsidian297]

to B+ AGREE

This should definitely rise to B+, a niche yet viable pivot with boots. The ability to threaten out quite a few top tier mons with its wide movepool is amazing and it definitely patches some issues on my team, like carrying Play Rough to KO any Dark types that would want to take Spectrier on.

to A- DISAGREE

As much as I love this mon, it faces massive competition from both Garchomp and Lando-T, while not doing anything impressive imo. B is fine for it. I really wish it could've gotten Shore Up as then, it would definitely be a lot better than it is currently and would definitely see more use. Still, seeing all 3 of this Gen's starters be OU viable is beautiful

to S SLIGHTLY AGREE

This mon is ridiculously viable and can be run on basically any team. I don't have much to add here. However, I don't think it's as good as Mag, so there's that. I do agree in the creation of a S-, at least until Mag is banned.

to S DISAGREE

This mon is great, but I don't see it being as good as Lando-T. I can't put my finger on why exactly, but I don't see it being better than Lando.

to A/A-

He just gets dunked on by so much of the meta, and every set that he runs is just really meh. Getting beaten by :excadril: is very annoying, considering how much those mons shape the meta. Others have elab'd on why they believe he isn't worthy of A/A-

My noms

to A

Look, destroying so many common balance and stall cores single-handedly is insane. and many more fear facing it, as its ridiculous power really forces them on the backfoot. Blissey, the Special Wall, gets cleanly 2HKO'd by Focus Punch sets. It can abuse the switches it forces to set up hazards, especially TSpikes.

to S

He is so easy to fit on teams, and just like Nido, forces so many switches, in conjunction with hazards and other passive damage really ramps up the offensive pressure of the team.

The current set I am using is

Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
-Pyro Ball
-High Jump Kick
-U-Turn
-Electro Ball/Sucker Punch​

Really fun set to use and abuse. It struggles against Clef, which is why I run either Nido or a steel alongside him.

to A/A+

He has established himself as a major player in the meta. He struggles against Spectrier, which is very problematic, but he can usually take a hit here and there. His AV set is by far the most popular, with a consistent game-in game-out performance, though HDB sets work fine, albeit slightly undewhelming. You don't have to listen to me, just check his performance in the current SPL.

Here's the set I've been using, though it is slightly unconventional

Slowking-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 68 Def / 100 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Future Sight
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake​

Weird set, I know, but it works wonders for me. The 88EVs in Attack guarantees removing opposing Glowking's Regenerator healing at minimum, as Glowking Vs Glowking Duels happen so often that I have considered making my Glowking weaker against Foul Play just to win against opposing Glowkings.

Here's the calc:


88 Atk Slowking-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 138-164 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Though you can run 0IVs and 0EVs to still get a similar damage range, albeit with on a roll.

You can run so many other 4th moves on Glowking, like Power Gem, Ice Beam, Focus Blast, Hydro Pump, Scald, Shadow Ball and even Weather Ball on certain teams.

Smogon beware

to S minimum

Hear me out. This set that I found/adapted is insane and absolutely deserves to be mentioned and rightly feared.

Smogon Destroyer (Excadrill) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Steel Beam
- Hyper Beam​

Yes that name is absolutely necessary. This set is an absolute monster.

Just look at these calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Excadrill Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 80+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar in Sand: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage

252+ SpA Choice Specs Excadrill Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 566-668 (218.5 - 257.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO



252+ SpA Choice Specs Excadrill Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Toxapex: 186-218 (61.1 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Excadrill Earth Power vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Melmetal: 168-200 (37.9 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes

Magearna? What Magearna?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Excadrill Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 236-282 (78.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

ADV TTar being too OP?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Sand Force Excadrill Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 216+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 270-318 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252+ SpA Choice Specs Excadrill Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar: 270-318 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Eat your heart out BKC, this is the ADV revolution

Just look at this game

Excadril dominating

Haters will say, Exca wasn't even there. Well, Smogon Destroyer destroyed Smogon from the inside out, winning this match for me. Checkmate atheists!

 

[AM]

Re above stuff: Lando-T would be better in S than Chomp imo if you want to take a look at just usage stats versatility alone. Its been the #1 mon used all weeks of SPL so far and chances are if I had access to the ladder usage it'll show a similar picture.

Pex should be suspected in the future let alone dropped from A+ lol but please stop using Toxic Spikes. I know it was placed in the Dex set worked on but it's practically unviable in this meta, stick to Toxic or Haze.

 

[zelda333]

Here's the set I've been using, though it is slightly unconventional

If your only goal is to win the glowking ditto you'd be much better off running psyshock and investing into sp atk. Also great to potentially OHKO nidoking who usually only think he'll be hit by scald. Although if the goal is to also hit heatran, then I understand.

 

[shadowpea]

I'm going to do my own viability rankings just because.
I am definitely not an expert and only ranked mons I have played or seen opponents play. Of course a ranking done by a council of experienced players will be better than mine, so take this with a grain of salt. Also, please do your own rankings, it could be interesting.
S rank

A+ rank

A rank

A- rank

B+ rank

B rank

B- rank

C+ rank

C rank

C- rank
[Hail] and some other mons
IDK Never Seen It Rank

Sup. I believe this would go to here, and I'm posting this before a moderator gets you :P

Also there are two Explouds in the IDK rank

 

[The Monday Sundae]

Hydreigon should have been A or maybe even A+ over the past month or so considering just how good of an answer it is to Spectrier. It obviously can't beat every set, but being a special attacking dark type that's actually good in Spectrier-less games is amazing.

Though at this point, Spectrier is about to get banned anyways, so I don't think there's a need to move it up and then move it back to A- a few days later. But Hydreigon is definitely above A- in the current meta. 10th most used in high ladder OU in January for a reason.

 

[The Monday Sundae]

Why is Melmetal A+? I don't know what exactly warrants it being placed so high

 

[BT89]

Why is Melmetal A+? I don't know what exactly warrants it being placed so high

It’s most likely because the VR is considered outdated. Most people are nominating Melmetal to fall down to A or even A-, and I am one of them.



This thing gets chipped too hard by everything that wields status/holds the Rocky Helmet that Melmetal despises. It’s definitely worthy dropping into A, for this flaw is just too big to look over due to the over abundance of chip.

 

[The Monday Sundae]

It’s most likely because the VR is considered outdated. Most people are nominating Melmetal to fall down to A or even A-, and I am one of them.



This thing gets chipped too hard by everything that wields status/holds the Rocky Helmet that Melmetal despises. It’s definitely worthy dropping into A, for this flaw is just too big to look over due to the over abundance of chip.

Completely agree. Moltres and Zapdos in particular are pretty common defoggers in the current meta. Having a 51% chance to burn or paralyze yourself in a situation where they can switch to their bird on a Double Iron Bash makes it risky to use the move whenever the opponent has one of them, especially considering that melm doesn't even come close to OHKOing max max defensive sets. Getting burned by Moltres makes Melmetal almost useless for the rest of the game and it will slowly get whittled away by the burn damage.

Zapdos is weak to ice punch but can roost off the damage to try and proc more paralysis. By then, you're very likely to have gotten paralyzed and the opponent has the advantage in the prediction game since even if you predict their roosts a couple times correctly and eq, you have a chance of not moving at all due to the para and opening yourself up to discharge. The Ice Punch freeze chance can beat zapdos too, but it's far less reliant than para hax since the odds of a freeze are just 10% (meaning you need 7 ice punches to have a >50% chance to freeze something). A good player would be forced to just switch out and take the status.

As you brought up, you also have to account for rocky helmet mons since DIB would make it lose 1/3 of its health. Slowbro is especially noteworthy since it's bulky on the physical side, can regenerate off any damage it takes on a switch, and can even teleport to an answer if they didn't predict the pivot with a t-punch. By that point melmetal will be at 2/3 health without lefties (or 1/2 if you switched in on the DIB). If it is lefties, you can just go to a spatker knowing it's not AV.

Not to mention that Spectrier (and soon to be Dragapult) is everywhere and commonly runs wisp hex sets to cripple physical attackers and hit back hard on the special side. In practice, most players will probably just switch out against the statusers of the tier to not risk crippling Melm. But that just gives their opponent momentum. I really think Melmetal needs to drop and that it wouldn't be A+ material even in a Spectrier-less meta. It's definitely good, but not THAT good.

A or A- like you said

 

[Finchinator]

Spectrier is banned from SS OU

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-suspect-process-round-9-voting.3677736/#post-8744580

 

[Fluxnorg]

Good day, fellow humans. I am a first-time contributor to this forum and would like to share my handful of noms. Despite not playing much since the Urshifu meta (though I will definitely play more often since horse just got banned, thank Arceus), so take everything I say with a grain of salt. Nonetheless, after reading these posts (and my own personal logic) I think I have a sufficient amount of knowledge of this metagame, at least enough to contribute to the forum.

The Rises

A+ -> S
They say that the best defense is a good offense, and Cinderace is the walking epitome of that concept. When it comes to offensive and supportive prowess, the Ace has it all. A stellar speed tier, an effective base 174 attack thanks to it's phenomenal ability, a nigh unmatched movepool to compliment Libero, and access to STAB U-Turn + Boots. For an offensive threat especially, the Ace has deceptively high longevity because his Speed and Power force out so many Pokémon that he hardly even gets hit himself. Horse being gone is especially great for him, since he's less hard-pressed to run Sucker Punch and can now freely run his dream set of Pyro Ball, HJK, Gunk Shot and U-Turn without having to worry about getting beaten by a dead horse. He has only 3 relatively consistent defensive checks in Slowbro, Toxapex, and Hippowdon, the former 2 of which get blown away by the absolute meme that is Work Up + Electro Ball. Cinderace is the face of the metagame in my opinion, even more so than Magearna, and this rise is reflective of that.

A+ -> S
This is probably one of my more controversial nominations, and even I'm still a bit shaky on this nomination, but I'll still throw it out there because why the hell not? While still a far cry from it's former glory with the loss of HP Ice and Supersonic Skystrike, Landorus-T still remains as the quintessential glue mon in the history of the competitive environment. Ground-Flying is a phenomenal typing due to its lack of weaknesses and valuable immunity to Ground and Electric, Intimidate is just a massive "fuck you" to almost every physical attacker in the tier, it has a vast movepool and incredibly high Attack. This is an example of a Pokémon who can perform damn near any role and perform it well. Defensive sets have great utility in Knock Off, Toxic, and U-Turn, Scarf sets are still reliable Speed control and can check a ton of shit with Intimidate and its hard-hitting Earthquake, and even lead sets with Rocks, SD, and Explosion are just some examples of its incredible versatility. This would definitely be a low S though, because of the existence of Garchomp who is similarly versatile and a way better offensive rocker and sweeper.

A -> A+
Never before have I seen a Pokemon that combines incredible defensive utility with incredible offensive support as beautifully as the Bro. This mon is just perfect in so many ways. Slowbro's typing and phenomenal stat distribution is capable of singlehandedly checking every physical attacker in the tier bar the offensive Grasses, and frankly this total goober just doesn't fucking die due to having both Slack Off and Regenerator. But above all, the Bro was built to be team player and support a plethora of offensive powerhouses thanks to the godlike synergy of its typing, stats, ability and movepool. Future Sight + Teleport + Regenerator is already a powerful strategy on paper, but coming off a mon with 95/110 physical bulk and base 100 Psychic STAB and you have the perfect enabler. The only reason I'm not nomming him to S is because the Bro folds to special attacks, has exploitable weaknesses, and competition with Toxapex for the role of bulky water on balance team, but Slowbro will always be a staple water of bulky offense thanks to it's impressive momentum generation.

A- -> A
Another defensive Psychic that vastly benefits from horse being gone! Glowking is if Slowbro decided to become a special wall and decided to hog all of the offensive prowess it used to provide for its team. Glowking's Assault Vest set combined with its bulk and power is capable of being an incredible special sponge that also forces shit out with its colorful movepool that allows it to pick and choose its checks. Future Sight and Sludge Bomb are givens due to the former's supportive capabilities and the latter's poison chance, but Flamethrower provides coverage against Steels, Scald can threaten physical attackers, Earthquake can be used to kill Heatran and other Fires, and even more niche options exist. Ghost types won't be as much of an issue either thanks to Gengar and Aegislash being unreliable switchins. Glowking will always remain relevant in the metagame thanks to being a phenomenal special wall with slim to no safe switchins.

A- -> A

B -> A-

C+ -> B+

C -> B-

The reasons for the rise of the undead should be clear as day. With horse no longer mandating a Ghost resist or providing competition, each of these Ghosts will have a second chance to shine. Dragapult's unmatched Speed tier and valuable utility in Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, and U-Turn, allow it to shine as an offensive pivot again. Aegislash will return to be the powerful and versatile wallbreaker it once was, and its movepool allows it to bypass its weaknesses. Shadow Sneak patches up his speed issues, and Close Combat and Toxic can be used to bypass traditional checks, though his weaknesses to two of the best offensive moves in Knock Off and Earthquake hold it back from being higher.. Gengar will also rise to absolutely sit on Blissey and set up Nasty Plot to break shit, not to mention its ability to act as a revenge killer with Scarf. Blacephalon is definitely the weakest of the bunch, considering Dark types wall it harder than the other 3, though it is still very powerful and never something you should ignore due to its snowballing ability.

B+ -> A-
Hippowdon is one of the best checks to both Cinderace and Magearna, the 2 biggest threats in this metagame, so it should come as no surprise that this sand hippo should rise alongside. Sand Stream is a very useful ability on the defensive end to chip the opposition, and the sand will stay for a while considering Hippo's fantastic bulk and great defensive typing. Part of what makes Hippo unique is its access to Whirlwind, completely shutting down any form of the notorious Dual Dance Magearna. Outside of checking the top 2, Hippowdon has great synergy with many other popular walls and support mons such as Toxapex, Corviknight, and Ferrothorn, so he can somewhat easily find a place on balance builds.
His great utility in Sand Stream, Whirlwind, Toxic and Stealth Rock always make him an annoyance to face, and being as good as he is versus top tier offensive threats, he should definitely rise one subrank.

B+ -> A-
Kyurem is one of the scariest balance breakers around due to his insane power, coverage, and versatility. Specs sets are borderline unwallable, albeit prediction reliant, because of the threats of Freeze Dry and Earth Power blasting past traditional checks in Water and Steel types. Sub Roost sets are also significant annoyances for more passive teams, easily being able to set up a Substitute against Toxapex, Slowbro, Blissey, and more without getting statused. I'm not a huge fan of Dragon Dance sets because of how easy they are to check with Ice Resists. Kyurem is also slightly matchup-dependent as well, since he doesn't fare too well against offense due to his mediocre defensive typing and 95 Speed, but vs balance builds is where Kyurem gets to absolutely shine.

The Drops

A+ -> A
Ever since Urshifu left the tier, Clefable is no longer as necessary as she once was. Her bulk is relatively mediocre and leaves her easily overwhelmed, especially when she's responsible for checking multiple Pokémon throughout the game. She's still a utility queen and is easy to fit on teams, however she's not as centralizing as she once was.

A+ -> A
Melmetal gets royally fucked by contact punishment due to Double Iron Bash being a multi-hit move, and the prominence of Rocky Helmet Pex, Slowbro, Hippo, and Tangrowth along with Zapdos, Ferrothorn, and Garchomp really doesn't do him any favors. He's also slow as shit and finds himself having to choose between defensive utility or all-out power. Magearna also outclasses him as a bulky offensive Steel, so maybe he'll find a more defined niche once she leaves the tier.

A -> A-
Drill has also had a significant dropoff in usage since its glory days preDLC2. His lead set is almost always outclassed by Landorus-T, and his Mold Breaker support set is difficult to fit on teams due to his lackluster speed tier and other offensive Grounds like Garchomp being much better as an offensive rocker. Sand Rush sets are still threatening sweepers, however it still has a plethora of checks that must be significantly weakened before he can make much progress. Drill is a good mon, but most teams just don't have the room for him.

A -> A-
I don't anticipate Mandibuzz to drop too far considering the Ghosts are on the rise and Mandibuzz is actually capable of beating all of them. However, this is the only reason to use Mandibuzz over fellow defoggers like Corviknight and Zapdos, so it's only really useful for role compressionif you really need a Ghost resist.

A -> B+
Fini seriously does not appreciate current metagame trends and loses to common threats such as Cinderace, Magearna, Rillaboom, Zapdos, and Nidoking. It still checks a decent amount of shit, but it finds itself overwhelmed by its lack of recovery outside of leftovers. I don't see it living up to Pex or Bro in this metagame at all, and it should drop as a result.

A- -> B
This flaming rubber chicken lost its niche since Pheromosa left the tier, and simply doesn't live up to Zapdos in most circumstances credits to his inferior typing. This mon absolutely hates having its boots removed, and this severly hampers its ability to check threats such as Rillaboom and Kartana. Not that great at checking a ton really anymore.

A- -> B
Why is this guy so high? What does he check that Slowbro and Glowking can't besides Nidoking? The Water-Psychic typing is much better fit for walling Physical Threats, and Psychic-Poison is a better type in this meta for walling the special threats. Only use this if you want a more aggressive Blissey or want to use Glowking but really want Teleport.

A- -> B+
Tyranitar is sadly not that useful outside of checking Ghosts and being a solid special sponge and sand setter in general. He's left with a very awkward typing and lackluster power that doesn't really help him check that much.

 

[notsotryharding33]

Fluxnorg I absolutely agree with all the raises you just provided. Aegislash is definitely very much low ranked in the B-tier. Ever since SD and Sub Toxic Sets started to rise up in the meta, they have been very great against the current meta. Spamming ghost moves is also nothing surprising with the popularity of things like Blissey, Slowbro, Fini it is able to superbly thrive in a meta like this. It is always able to get 2 or 3 kills with the SD set on hyper offense, and able to semi-stall bulkier types of cores with the Sub+Toxic stall. As far Gengar and Dragapult go, with Spectrier being banned they just get better and better. Gengar raising up to B+ is definitely 100% reasonable as it's NP sets are very hard to immediately counter without running SpDef Buzz or Gastrodon. But it can come in on the right pokemon and set up and blow back teams that aren't prepared for it. Dragapult's specs set allows it to fire off nuclear powerful Draco Meteors, and be a very prominent threat due to it's speed tier. Infiltrator is a great ability with the rise of these subsitute Ghost Types and HO Meta, while Clear Body is able to bypass intimidate and webs which is also an important other muscle of HO. Either way it has the tools to do so. It also has access to Dragon Dance on HO teams with stabs/fb and is able to muscle through steels, dragons. I like these two being the way they are tiered in the meta, and I think they will find more and more opportunity to do so. As of rn, Blacephalon may be outclassed by Gengar with the current meta, as it has a worse defensive typing, being weak to rocks, suffers from low coverage, is a little slower, and doesen't obtain Nasty Plot(being a faster way to break). Blacephalon is still a great ghost type imo, but compared to things like Gengar, Dragapult, and Aegislash is having a rougher time in the meta. However it does have the advantage of Beast Boost + Immediate Raw Power in 151 base special attack, but unfortunately isn't enough to compete with the three. Furthermore Blacephalon is able to identify itself as a mediocre but strong ghost type, that suffers from more weaknesses than it's clear advantage. All-in-all, I think Ghost types are gonna thrive more and more as the meta continues.

B+<A- or A. Kyurem may have fell off a bit since the first DLC and some of this DLC due to Cinderace and Urshifu's overbearing presence and new additions like Mag, and G-Slowking, but Kyurem is a great anti-meta pick still and has a very great role at breaking solid balanced cores. It's ability to have coverage in EP and Focus Blast allows it to pressure pretty much every offensive and defensive build. Often times it forces 50/50's between you're steel and flying type trying to dodge an Earth Power or Ice Beam. Often times then not sometimes the steel type is gonna need to be either A(Really bulky or 2( A 4x resist, like Heatran for instance, to avoid 2 or 3HKO's (in which maybe it can't do much to Kyurem). Kyurem also is able to use Sub+Roost or DD sets to become an effective staller or breaker, and pairing it with boots, removes it weakness to hazards, making it have an easier time switching in. Kyurem always has been and always will be a very menacing breaker either way the meta goes, with it's ability to literally "pressure" almost every build. All in All I'd say it deserves a rise in the currency of the meta trends, as how bulky waters and flying types are everywhere at it's disposal not to mention things like the rise of Boom and Tornadus in usage.

C <B This may be a weird one but I also personally believe that Weavile is getting better with the fast pace meta. Checking things like pult/torn/chomp/ace with it's high speed and priority is a great niche that it always has as well as pressuring the meta with Knock Off and being able to remove items. It does struggle with bulkier balances/regen but it has ways of dealing with that through FS support which really benefits it in the long run. It allows for pokemon like Toxapex, Buzzwhole, and Moltres to not get a free switch in to it, and pressure some of the bulkier meta. I also do like the fact that Weavile is able to scout for scarf items on the Tapu's or Lando, or Boom, as it has the one niche from it's otherwise useless ability. SD Boots sets are still pretty niche as they allow for Weavile to break teams, and come in on entry hazards very well. All in all I think Weavile does still face issues with it's frailty, ability to come in on hazards, and struggling ability to break bulkier cores, but is able to use support options and pressure things with it's stabs and priority ability.

 

[BitBitio]

notsotryharding33 you should edit your posts instead of a million separate posts. It makes everyone get like 8 notifications.

edit: should’ve added more substance to this, have a VR nom:
-> S
This guy fits on every team outside of stall. Does everything, doesn’t need Sucker anymore but can RK some big meta threats with it if it wants. Impossibly good at forcing progress. Best mon in the meta with Magearna.

 

[658Greninja]

I’m gonna hit this thread with a couple of noms so bare with me.

A+ > S:
These two are nearly undisputed in terms of splashability, role compression, and versatility. Ace has like 5 counters in the game from Pex who is 2HKOd by Zen Headbutt, Lando/Chomp who get worn down over the course of a game, and Bro who is U-Turn food. This pretty much leaves you with Hippo as it’s only truly sustainable counter. It pairs so nicely with mons that are currently rising in viability due to the Spect ban like Slowbro and Pult. In SPL it has proven again and again just how much of a force it is on any game it’s in. Lando is packed with tons of role compression on top of being a great check to Ace, Mag, Drill, and SD Chomp. It may not be as dominant as in Gen 7 but with the experimentation of Toxic, Protect, Substitute, and more. Lando is proving to be the multi-trick pony (tiger) it has always been.

A+ > A:
Both these mons are great but not A+ material imo. Clefable was bound to drop in usage and viability as Urshifu left, however it still has tons of utility to work with for Balance on top of being able to check rising threats like Kyurem, non-Flash Cannon NP Hydrei, and Pult due to Magic Guard and solid special bulk. However Clef doesn’t have the same splashability that mons like Chomp or Heatran have. This also applies to Ferrothorn. Ferro is a great spiker than can keep Spikes up while being incredibly awkward to switch into with the combination of Knock Off, Twave, and Power Whip. However it has the tendency to not last long to be around lategame due to it’s reliance on Leech Seed for recovery and having to get burnt by Scalds or Knock’d by mons it usually would switch into to get spikes off. It still has a solid 53% winrate during last week’s SPL and it does it’s job well, but not A+ worthy imo.

> A+
The Spectrier ban and their performance throughout SPL has solidified themselves as Top Ten mons imo. Pult has returned to it’s glory days near the end of the horse’s last race as it can provide solid utility and speed control while rkilling the horse. With Spect gone it is free to spam Hex, status, U-Turn, and Dracos/Darts without its power being weakened by having to run Timid. Pult offers teams a nice check to Chomp, Ace, non-Scarf Kart, Torn, and Slowbro. Specs, Boots, Lefties, and even DD sets are all scary in their own rights. Slowbro does so much for a team that its a shame its not in the same league as Pex. Slowbro is difficult to OHKO in one hit while maintaining easy momentum with Port and forcing awkward plays with Future Sight. It checks Ace, Lando, Drill, and Chomp and getting easy switch ins off passive mons. It was inevitable that people would figure out just how bonkers NP is, especially when combined with Knock for added utility. The mix of regenerator, great speed, and decent bulk makes Torn one of the scariest Balance breakers behind stuff like Specs Magearna. Defog Torn is still great, annoying teams with Knock Off and U-Turn. Torn’s return to A+ is long overdue.

A > A-:
Fini’s weaknesses are starting to show its ugly side. No reliable recovery, Knock Off bait, and the surge of Zeraora, Glowking, and more consistent bulky waters hinders Fini quite a bit. Scarf sets are still really good in the right mus and CM can still sweep unprepared teams, but rn its losing its pedestal as the best Tapu in OU to Koko and Lele.

A- > B+:
Ttar is still a threat but it has a fair share of issues. It kills momentum due to Ttar having to choice from giving momentum up to Mag, Ferrothorn, or Kart. Or giving momentum up to the grounds and more. Defensive sets struggle with a 4MSS. Ttar wants EQ to hit Tran and Mag, it wants Rock Blast to hit the birds, or Crunch to hit Pult, and status to cripple either Mag or Lando on the switch. It’s also a flunky Pult answer due to being weak to U-Turn and burns. However I could see a rise of CB Ttar in the near future.

B > B+:
There is no reason for this bird to be in the same rank as Buzzwole or Volcarona especially due to the fact that it would’ve been OU if it weren’t for the change in tier shifts. It curve stops a large portion of the physical metagame while laying spikes, and throwing out Toxic on whatever tries to keep the Spikes off the field. Unlike Ferro it’s main competition, Skarm can last longer thanks to Roost. There is no physical hit in OU that can take down the bird in one hit, even Ace’s Pyro Ball isn’t killing, even with rocks up.

B+ > B:
I believe Suicune was hyped up to overrated territory. Too matchup reliant and too support reliant to consistently sweep teams. The rise of Pult and offensive Hydreigon only further prove a point. Not many trends Suicune is a fan of.

B > C-:
It’s a stretch I know but it’s true. After the Shifu ban, Buzzwole effectively lost any resemblance of viability. We have much better physical walls that can deal with SD Chomp, Rilla, Kart, and Drill such as Lando, Slowbro, Tang, and Skarm who not only check these mons but have tons of utility to boot. Buzzwole just has Toxic and coverage moves. Thats it. Skarm is literally a better Buzzwole, change my mind.

B- > C-:
Same story with Buzzwole, except it’s cause of the Spect ban this time.

C+ > B/B+:
Zeraora still isn’t IoA levels of good, but it’s a great pivot and great speed control that should be represented as such in the VR. In Week 3 we have seen Zera rock a solid winrate and usage that rivals some OU staples. Zera is awkward to switch into due to Knock and Toxic constantly wearing down its checks.

C+ > B-/B:
1TL pretty much showcased some of the strengths of Bulu is one game last week of SPL. Throughout the game, Bulu was able to keep itself alive with the help of Horn Leech, if 1TL were to use Rilla, it might’ve lasted for less time. Bulu has other noteworthy strengths that gives it a niche over Rilla. The added Fairy typing does two things for Bulu. It improved its MU vs Hydreigon and SD Chomp, it removes the weakness to U-Turn making it better vs Lando, Koko, and coincidentally, Rillaboom. Not to mention Stone Edge lets it outright nuke tf out of Zapdos, Torn, and Mandibuzz which Rilla tends to rely on Knocking them and wearing them down through a course of a game. Rillaboom still has priority, Knock Off, and U-Turn, but Bulu has certain qualities that grants it a niche over Rilla
on more Balance oriented teams.

A game from the OU Team Tournament as extra proof:https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1276688313

C > UR:
Only relevant cause of Spectrier. A Pult answer that fucking dies to Draco. Even Zarude is a better dark type in the post Spectrier meta than Incineroar. Worn down too easily, and doesn’t check or counter anything relevant nor can it last throughout a game without intense support which at this point you should just run Tran or something.

C- > UR:
I see no reason to consider Prim on my team at all. Worse wincon than Fini and that mon hasn’t been doing so hot lately. Outclassed by faster, stronger special breakers like Mag or Lele. Worst part is it has a hard time breaking well structured balance cores without heavy prediction.

 

[RufflesPro]

A -> A+
I would nominate this to S if I could, but not many people would agree. Torn-t does what it usually does in every gen, slowly but surely become one of the greatest utility pivots on balanced to ever exist. His utility is god tier and he is impossible to wear down. Knock Off is better than ever and this guy is really good at it. That doesn't even begin to talk about Nasty Plot / Specs sets which are pretty good as well.

A+ -> S
This mon is giga broken. Definitely as good as Magearna if not better, the only reason Magearna seems more broken is so many people are spamming it with screens and dual dance. Cinderace doesn't need screens support, it's coverage is godly and with FS nothing stands in its way. The rare court change is extremely annoying and Gunk Shot seems to always poison. Easy S

A- -> A+
This thing is just so good. Probably the best defogger in their and can blanket check so many things like Kartana/Rillaboom/Lele/Magearna/Excadrill/Melmetal etc. and can do all of that even with a mixed defense set. ID + BP is so annoying to play against and even the -Spe nature U-turn sets are really nice. Not to mention Sub/Taunt + Bulk up is an extremely good stallbreaker.

B+ -> A-
I mean anyone who used this or just played matches in high ladder knows how annoying this shit is rn. It's everywhere and if you are not prepared for the SubRoost or the Specs set you're finished. Freeze-Dry just makes it so easy to spam. Not to mention lots of teams rn have their defensive glue as Blissey or Ferrothorn which Kyurem walls both (stalls out seismic toss / gyro ball with ease).


That's pretty much the things I want to nominate. Idk maybe drop melmetal it's not great. Also I disagree with Mandibuzz going down it's still one of the best pivot into Future Sight + Cinderace or FS + Rillaboom. If you switch all your teams from Mandibuzz to Corv you will soon realize that Cinderace + FS breaks your team apart.

 

[Red Raven]

This is the first time I'm gonna do my own nominations so please forgive me if they seem wrong

First, I wanna nominate and to S rank or at the very least, S-. The reason for this is because regardless of what happens, you can never go wrong with putting these two on your team. Garchomp is a threatening wallbreaker that can turn that wallbreaking power into sweeping power while also being a massive headache for Cinderace. Landorus Therian is Landorus Therian. It gets every freaking utility move in the game and when paired with a half decent bulk and intimidate, is very capable of supporting teams. The most crucial part about Landorus is how it gets both rocks and defog, meaning it can save you a team slot and allowing for dangerous possibilities on mons like Garchomp or Heatran

Next is to S. There are many others that also nominate this and I quite agree. When your safest answer is literally baneful helmet Toxapex, you know that it is a good pokemon. It's only other answer, which is max hp and max def Moltres, is crippled way too severely and has major opportunity costs to using something like Zapdos. Tank chomp also somewhat annoys Cinderace but it's just another u turn victim. Being the new Greninja, I really think this one deserves S rank

to A+. Since Spectrier just got banned, this pokemon just got a lot better. The only ghost type that can replicate the levels of danger Spectrier does is I believe only Blacephalon and that pokemon already has issues on its own. It also serves as a pseudo Lando T as it stuffs nearly every physical threat that aren't grass types, including the dreaded Cinderace. I really think that this mon should be in the same rank as Toxapex because of that

and to B+. With Spectrier gone, Tyranitar probably lost its last lease on ou. This pokemon is complete and utter Magearna bait, which is the worst trait a pokemon can have. What's worse, is that Magearna sometimes carries weakness policy, meaning that hitting it with a super effective move, which is almost never gonna kill a healthy Magearna, would only make that thing more dangerous. For as long as Magearna exists, I do not believe that Godzilla should be in A rank. Excadrill is also a similar story. It only fits on sand teams as a powerful sweeper. As a suicide lead, it is outclassed by Landorus Therian, who is naturally faster and can reliably kill itself. Excadrill's advantage as a suicide lead is it doesn't care about magic bounce but magic bounce users are quite rare as far as I've noticed. Its steel typing does give it some utility but its defensive aren't that great so multiple resisted hits will pile up

to B+ or B. In my own experience with Moltres, it's biggest advantage over all the other birds is it can completely ruin Cinderace with flame body but only if it runs max hp and max def to reliably switch in against it multiple times while only fearing a potential gunk shot poison. Against the rest of the metagame, it isn't exactly that great. It's a complete future sight bait for Slowbro and cannot reliable handle the grass types due to the potential of having knock off. Cinderace might be common but it isn't that common where every team is gonna have it. Moltres also has severe moveslot issues. It wants u turn so it turns from being bulky water bait to being a momentum grabber and it needs flamethrower otherwise what's the point of handling the grasses. It also wants scorching sands for Heatran and Toxapex while at the same time, giving it a chance to ruin a Garchomp that thinks it has a free swords dance or stealth rock. It really only needs five moves but each of those moves are really crucial for it

Well, that's my own nominations anyway

 

[notsotryharding33]

Here again to nominate some more raises and drops

Since I guess it's always good to be positive I guess here will start off with the PROS

RAISES:

C+<B+ I feel like Reuniculus has gotten significantly better with the ban of Spectrier, and it has the ability to always threats such as CM Magearna, and Clefable. Having Magic Guard provides it with a nice toxic immunity and having even the bulk to take on potentially two U-turns from HDB Ace, is really nice. Reuniclus in general is a very threatening stallbreaker when given the opportunity to set up and I don't think it should be taken lightly at all. Although Reuniclus hates Knock Off and has issues with it's subpar speed tier there are many other niches that are too be accomodated for.

B+<A- Overall Hippowdon has excelled as a Cinderace check and is capable of setting up sand for mons like Drill and Dracozolt to effectively break/late-game clean efficiently. Hippowdon is also great at taking care or switching into mons like Chomp, Lando, SG Magearna(Potentially being able to WW it), and Non G-knot Koko. It is usually a reliable stealth rocker even despite it's passivity some of the time. I don't see Hippowdon being much higher than A- but I definitely see it providing a great presence on teams

A-< A Tapu Lele is incredibly devouring. Almost having no defensive counterplay to it unless your carrying a bulky steel type that's not weak to Focus Blast this thing is easily capable of breaking bulky balances. Unless you have Corvi, Aegi, AV Mag, or Jirachi be prepared to lose a mon or 2 for sure. It really appreciates Spectrier and Urshifu being gone as it's able to spam it's psychic moves all over the place, and not worry about being rk'ed as much. Tapu Lele is also able to pressure some of the top tier mons in Ferro, Tran, Pex, Slowbro, and Lando with it's coverage and stabs. Tapu Lele only really suffers in speed creep of Chomp and being revenge killed by Cinderace and Kartana. It is always able to get in and put a lot of pressure on teams, and usually as stated above nab a kill or two before going down. Overall I see Lele being a great way of breaking the defensive metagame among all.

A<A+ or S- Rillaboom is absolutely ridiculous imo. You may find this controversial in S- but honestly in some ways I find this thing to be broken. Having monstrous priority in Grassy Glide, and the ability to pivot and remove items in itself is just really strong towards it's success. Band by far is the most brutal set as it offers it with IMMEDIATE breaking power and the ability to run U-turn freely as a adept pivoting option. SD sets are also still a potential threat to teams as well. Rillaboom by far outclasses Bulu in so many ways and I feel like it's as if it's a Bulu 2.0 This fighting machine is always able to pick off pokemon and wear down it's checks with the consistent pivoting and Knocking off boots into rocks damage. Pair this thing with FS, and Buzzwhole and Pex won't be switching in. Not to mention that just in general things like Moltres and Buzzwhole dropping in usage already supports it enough. With just enough power and potential Rillaboom can really excel in it's tasks.

B<A- Gastrodon is another bulky water type to consider as it's capable of being able to check things such as Tapu Koko, SG Magearna, Heatran, and non-Giga Drain Volcarona. Having the ability to switch in to water moves freely and have recovery really gives it a niche as well. Yes it does struggle with Rillaboom and Kartana being high and it has passivity issues as well, it is something that is able to compromise checking considerably top tier/high threats. It can pressure regen mons with it's typing and toxic, and it's able to open up opportunities for other pokemon with being able to check threats. Funny fact: Gastrodon serves as a mediocre Cinderace check.


DROPS:
A<A-or B+\

Excadrill is really having a hard time solidifying itself in the meta due to offensive ground presences in SD Chomp and Lando as a rocker. Excadrill just proves as only useful as a breaker on sand to differentiate itself from the other two. However in return it can serve as temp Koko check and reserved Magearna switch-in. I think Excadrill also has problems with the current meta in being countered by Rillaboom and Urshifu-RS and being revenge killed by the other grounds and Cinderace, as well as rising checks in Slowbro and Skarm. Excadrill will always remain a potent threat in the metagame but is just struggling to keep itself maintaining due to rising checks, and competition mainly.

A<B+ Mandibuzz really isn't stepping up is game. It is honestly a free opportunity of momentum for the opponent and heavily relies on boots to check pokemon like Excadrill, Rillaboom, and Cinderace, and non-edge Chomp. It is a great answer to ghost and psychic types but otherwise is usually not able to compete on the level of Zapdos, Moltres, Lando, and Tornadus because they bring upon more utility or have more useful abilities. Mandibuzz also is sometimes just really reliant on pivoting out or using toxic to actually get damage or start somewhere in terms of bringing in other threats on it's team. Surely it has great bulk and a typing that provides it with a useful Dark resist and Psychic immunity but otherwise it cannot usually be justified over other defensive birds.

B<C+ Now that Urshifu is gone and the fact that flying types raise and other glory-seeking special attackers such as Pult, Mag and Heatran are rising, Buzzwhole has everything going against it. Although being one of the few only reliable lando/chomp/kart answers in the entire metagame it is a really hard pick to fit on most balances. Similar to the other buzz, it has a typing that is able to worthily check dark, and ground types for a while until it's starts to fall to it's shortcomings. However it isn't as momentum-giving as Mandibuzz is. Furthermore Buzzwhole is held back by it's ability to not have great utility options and falls short of a reliable/useful bug move. It's also worth noting that there are lots of typings that can resist the typing of bug fighting such as water/fairy, water/poison, ghost/steel, flying, e.c Overall thus far Buzzwhole is on a trend falling it down in it's viability, as in the near future we may say this fall down to UUBL/UU due to it's overbearing flaws.

A+<A- Although Melmetal is very strong and threatening with it's 135/143/143+Iron fist boosted DIB and coverage, it is fairly easy to play around it with regen cores+ the birds. Melmetal is also very slow and suffers from a low special defense stat which allows it not to come in to easy on said attacks. Not to mention it faces a ton of competition as a bulky steel type. It's definitely a top tier A- but it falls due to these traits. I think Melmetal would benefit from things like Zone and Future Sight support since Melmetal can break Ferrothorn but appreciate support against Skarm/Corvi and FS helps with Pex/Whole. Melmetal is good but just not great. It has dropped this last month, suffering lots of usage. Overall Melmetal will still be a great breaker and tremendously excels with a high HP stat but suffers from a low speed and spdef stat and has pokemon able to pivot around and deal with it.

B<C+ Last but not least here we have G-Moltres. I'm honestly super surprised that this thing is higher than Gapdos on the VR, but this thing is incredibly hard to fit/unviable if not used on HO. It also suffers from having zero coverage outside of it's stabs although it's stabs do hit quite a lot of things. It also can't recover it's HP which would make it outclassed by Mandibuzz as a defensive mon. It faces a lot of comp with NP Dreigon as a breaker outside of HO realm. I do think that Galarian Moltres does have perks in Berserk SpAtk raise, and the ability to omniboost, and a buffed Dark Pulse. Overall Galarian Moltres is not that good imo, and has very limited potential outside of HO.

Anyways that's all thank you for your dedicated time.

 

[BitBitio]

Sorry, guys. No pictures coming from me.

Cinderace: A+ -> S - Pretty obvious why it should go there. Being able to make any Move STAB makes Cinderace Greninja, but that’s not the only reason it’s so great. There isn’t many Cinderace Counters, and your best bet is to be able to check it. Baneful Bunker, and Defensive Garchomp are your best chances of defeating Cinderace. Cinderace can also just get out of the battlefield, in a flash, letting someone else do the work effectively, and getting out, against a bad matchup, unscathed.

Melmetal: A+ -> B- - Melmetal is slow af, resulting in a lot of difficulties to deal real Damage, before getting hurt. (Despite not being an issue, Chip Damage sucks.) While having decent Defenses when holding an AV, it’s still not very usable, compared to Magearna. Pretty outplayed, by Regenerators like common Slowbros, and Torn-Ts, and is outclassed by other Steels like Ferrothorn. (Viability wise.) It is also crippled by Will-O-Wisp Mons, if applicable.

Moltres-Galar: B -> C- - Honestly, like notsotryharding33 said, higher on the VR than Gapdos is insane. Moltres-Galar isn’t good at sponging, and can literally cover nothing than what it’s good against. Not having Roost really hurts it. Like a LOT. It has a pretty limited amount of bulk, so I don’t think Berserk is completely useless. Another thing I agree with notsotryharding33 about. Honestly, it’s worse than Gapdos, and C is too high for it, imo. Galarian Moltres fits in C-, tho.

Marowak-Alola and Xatu: Unranked - Let’s start with Marowak. Wak is a decent Wallbreaker, and can effectively kill Ferrothorn, without Trick Room. However, I feel as if it’s not viable at all. Marowak is too reliant on Trick Room to do some good, and is outclassed by Dragapult. Ferrothorn is already effectively countered by other Mons, like Heat Wave Zapdos. Anyone can do better than Marowak at breaking, imo. Now, we have our bird. Xatu is a Magic Bouncer, but besides that, it’s useless. To frail to fight, and usually has to be switched out the moment it reflects something. Arguably, Xatu would be able to get into at least C-, but like I said, is too frail to do anything, imo.

Bro Melmetal struggles in this meta but like, it definitely isn't gonna be dropped to B-. It has excellent bulk and some nice set variety. It also hits really hard. I agree with a drop, but really? B-?

 

[viet noa]

to Unranked

i understand that it has its niche on certain team builds, but i have a very hard time seeing how it has a true place in the meta. almost the entirety of ou’s roster can hit it with super-effective damage, and unless it gets a swords dance off (which is unlikely due to its horrible speed tier), it can’t really hit anyone hard at all.

furthermore, with it being almost required to run boots, it has pretty much zero longevity in matches. knock off is already a move that most pokémon hate switching into, and shedinja gets completely obliterated by one of the best and most common attacks in the game. there has to be something i’m missing here, because i have a hard time seeing any use for shedinja that isn’t done better by ~ a regular ghost pokémon.

 

[ScarfchomperL100]

Marowak-Alola and Xatu: Unranked - Let’s start with Marowak. Wak is a decent Wallbreaker, and can effectively kill Ferrothorn, without Trick Room. However, I feel as if it’s not viable at all. Marowak is too reliant on Trick Room to do some good, and is outclassed by Dragapult. Ferrothorn is already effectively countered by other Mons, like Heat Wave Zapdos. Anyone can do better than Marowak at breaking, imo. Now, we have our bird. Xatu is a Magic Bouncer, but besides that, it’s useless. To frail to fight, and usually has to be switched out the moment it reflects something. Arguably, Xatu would be able to get into at least C-, but like I said, is too frail to do anything, imo.

I do agree that Alolan Marowak should drop in viability, but as a frequent user of Xatu on multiple teams I don't agree with Xatu being removed from the rankings.

While Xatu may not have amazing stats, what makes it a viable Magic Bounce user is it's instant reliable recovery, unlike the other Magic Bouncer in Hatterene. Although Xatu's defense stats are bad, it is just high enough for it to not only check but prevent Stealth Rock from users such as Ferrothorn, Clefable, Skarmory, Blissey, and suicide lead Mew. The flying typing also means that it serves as a complete 0 damage taken hard counter to Hippowdon and the standard Tank Garchomp set. It can also use Teleport to ensure that they cannot simply stay in and predict a switch for hazards, while also bringing in a dangerous Pokemon like Cinderace in. Really the only Stealth Rock users that can scare it out are Tyranitar, Heatran, and Swords Dance + Stealth Rock Landorus-T, perfectly viable but not particularly the most used set. However a defensive Tyranitar cannot OHKO max defense max HP Xatu with any one move except a lucky 5 hit Rock Blast, while Heatran cannot use Taunt to prevent Xatu from Teleporting out and also doesn't OHKO it with even a max special attack Magma Storm anyways. Landorus-T can obviously kill it at +2 with Stone Edge (80% of the time of course), but that comes with the knowledge that it's not running a bulkier set and therefore is much easier to offensively pressure it. However, it doesn't even have a chance to KO Xatu unboosted, even with a Life Orb. And if Landorus-T can't OHKO it unboosted, then neither can a Garchomp that is trying to run the same set for role compression purposes.

No matter what happens though, the bottom line is that if it prevents Stealth Rock or Spikes or whatever from ever hitting your side of the field, it's doing it's job. Against teams with more passive hazard setters, Xatu is an absolute nightmare for them to try to get the hazards past, a great benefit for you.

While this niche Pokemon is definitely not for every team, on teams that can take advantage of Xatu support, like a Volt-Turn team that doesn't wanna forfeit momentum by removing hazards, the benefits of doing so cannot be ignored, which is why Xatu is ranked.