Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

[Endrism]

Scarf Incineroar is interesting due to be faster than Kartana and Blacephalon, which allows it to offer a bulky pivot that can also revenge kill them. However, the replays don't really show the potential of Scarf Incineroar more than they do a showcase of Incineroar's talents.
At that point, my question is: why Scarf over Heavy-Duty Boots? Is the extra speed really worth the hazard support required? I think Incineroar has a lot more potential as a slow pivot with Parting Shot + Will-O-Wisp to cripple foes and especially Defiant users such as Zapdos-G and Bisharp. Knock Off is a mandatory move and then Flare Blitz for that useful Fire STAB.

As for viability, Incineroar has some useful resistances to Ghost, Fire, Dark, Ice, Grass and it's a Psychic immunity neutral to Fairy. With its decent bulk it can definitely be a bulky pivot for some specific teams. I can see some viability in Incineroar despite it's lack of reliable recovery so I can't say I'm against a C- rank, I just do not think Choice Scarf is its best asset.

I tried HDB, but not being able to outspeed the guys between 90 and 110 really sucks. Getting off a scarfed parting shot on a lot of those threats can completely halt their progress and really helps over the course of a game. Without it Incineroar cant lure or weaken these threats very much, and resorts to taking big hits before it can get it off instead of getting parting shot off first. I didn't get much success with HDB when I tried it, but I will give it another go anyway and if I get some success Ill update my post for sure. Thanks for the feedback on it!

 

[julian113]

Just random thoughts on some things that look out of place.

to B
Opting for a more conservative rise this time since this mon isn’t exactly in love with the increased slowbro usage, but it’s still underrated with this ranking. We saw an impressive showing of blaziken on hail (along with a few other showings) in spl, picking up a key ko vs rain of all teamstyles, where it would normally be a sack. This showed how good prediction and not being overeager to sd with blaziken can go a long way, koing seismitoad took away rains main wincon as well as their only arctozolt counterplay without a melm wake (which they got). One set I’ve been really liking in particular is cb in tandem with koko, with blaziken threatening mons like ferrothorn and glowking, and koko threatening bulky waters, both combining to pressure lando. Run blaze kick on cb btw, keeping blaziken fully healthy can go a long way lategame (surviving zera plasma fists, pult sball, scarf kart sword, etc) and getting the crit on lando can be game winning.

to A-
This has never been a B rank mon, and it’s proven enough to deserve a return to the A ranks imo. The ban on kyu really freed up those rillakart/rillatran/rillazone builds that were so heavily threatened by it. We lack many offensive mons that can both outspeed and comfortably tank grassy glide over the course of a match, which makes it really threatening lategame after it’s checks have been chipped, doubling as insurance against getting swept by weavile, garchomp, scarf lele, and numerous other mons.

to B-/B
When you look at the B+ rank you see a lot of respectable mons. Buzzwole the ultimate physical tank, impossible to wall special threats in nidoking, volcanion, and moltres-g, demon mew threatening to end games on mu alongside various useful lead/support sets. Hydreigon and gastrodon simply don’t match up to these mons’ usefulness and versatility, and many mons in the B rank look arguably more viable imo, they simply aren’t very good in high level play. Gastrodon is the peak example of something that beats Tran on paper but tends to do nothing else other than get toxiced and faint, same thing applies to spdef hydrei as a tran check. Np hydrei just needs to fit too many moves to be useful game to game, and it’s typing is very awkward to fit onto teams. As far as three attacks roost goes, I don’t think it has the breaking power and utility needed to justify itself over more user friendly special breakers like moltres-g in particular.

 

[Magcargo]

I think the primary argument against Incineroar in OU has always been its competition from OU's standard Intimidate-pivot-utility-Scarfer: Lord Lando-T. Being a grounded Rocks-weak mon without recovery means it gets worn down much faster than it would like, and realistically Lando-T probably does 90% of what it does while setting Rocks and providing an Electric and Ground immunity. If you add Rocks to most of your defensive calcs, they all look waaaay worse (eg: Weavile's Triple Axel+Rocks is now over half. You can come in twice if you account for Intimidate, but it's not exactly comfortable, especially on a mon that's taking Flare Blitz chip).

So realistically Incineroar only has a niche on teams that don't want Lando-T's typing for some reason and, if you're not using Boots, have excellent hazard control already. But in that case surely you'd take the opportunity to utilise Weavile's Life Orb-boosted power? There are many way better Darks in this tier that mostly make a living out of clicking Knock Off. Incineroar isn't bad, it's just hopelessly outclassed for what it is: a slightly bulky Dark that can pivot while not being hopelessly passive. How much utility it provides is questionable beyond Knock pivot repeat, and being Scarfed locks you into doing one or the other not both. I think this set's results IMO are just down to the age-old testament you can get decent results by slapping an unexpected Scarf on pretty much anything and taking a surprise KO or two.

Looking at the replays, something that Incineroar did pretty well is act as a Parting Shot bot. Parting Shot + Intimidate basically lets Incineroar give other, strong Pokemon like Garchomp very easy and free set up oppurtunities. Scarf kinda seemed mandatory on the set given that it let Incineroar safely Parting Shot on foes like Lando-T that would otherwise threaten it. I could see this set actually being pretty useful. After all, one way Lando-T is sometimes played is merely being used as an Intimidate bot to slow down the rate at which various physical set-up sweepers are able to make progress. Incineroar can kind of do the same thing while also threatening any switch-in (apart from G-Zap / Bisharp) with lowered offenses as well.

 

[airfare]

as spl w3 ends im gonna drop some quick noms to reflect on some of the meta changes since kyurem's ban

A+ --> S-
ferro bo is probably the single defining ss ou archetype atm: insanely good at denying offensive opportunities to offensive mons via spikes and slowing down the momentum of all of the common choiced breakers, while being a great defensive presence in its own right

A+ --> S-
the usage shows it. mad role compression in being the best sball resist and still an insane offensive threat make it an omnipresence on pretty much every archetype

A --> A-
susceptibility to zone, being overwhelmed by almost every relevant breaker, and not being able to reliably contest rocks tran

A- --> B+
these don't benefit from ferro everywhere and having more popular scarfers than when hail peaked. alolatales still a good screener outside of hail tho

A- --> A
really really solid breaker when u can build around it properly

A- --> B
this mon is some ass. lost its defensive niche without kyurem and struggles to make progress vs anything, but sd offensive sets and that one bea zapdos team manage to keep it afloat

A- --> A
zapdos is impossible to switch into and punishes lando cores so well

A- --> A
zapdos is impossible to switch into and punishes lando cores so well

b ranks need kind of an overhaul but here are some of the more important/apparent things i've noticed

B+ --> B-
does nothing ever, offensively or defensively

B+ --> B
the fad kinda died out

B+ --> A-
boon to offense in that it's a ghost resist and can sweep really easily

B+ --> A-
might just be me but i have loved 4a timid nido recently. super super good at breaking through pretty much every bo or balance currently used, while its bad fat mus are near nonexistent atm

B+ --> A-
nicher scary breaker in a similar vein to nidoking

B- --> B
rocks + turn + hwish + its typing gives it a pretty cool spot on bulky offense, usually alongside gzap which tends to end up killing itself

B- --> A-
bit drastic but honestly a super scary breaker and staple of zone offense. think speed boosting 4a is the way to go rn but have seen some other stuff w rocks/split

C+ --> B
put it w its rain buddies


was thinking about shoving these guys down a subrank but decided not to

 

[Freezerman]

C to C+/B-/B(too far of a stretch)
Here's a cool mon I wanted to nom incase the VRs noms close today. I really think this mon is highly slept on and needs some sort of attention, glastrier is a force but one which is slow and is plagued by it's weaknesses to common types such as steel, fire and fighting. I wanted to seek out a niche and found a set in:

Glastrier @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Chilling Neigh
EVs: 136 HP / 224 Atk / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Horsepower
- Icicle Crash/Icicle Spear
- Close Combat/Megahorn
​

EVs explanation

this is faster than Twave melmetal and can OHKO slowbro, melmetal and ferro as I've shown in calc with rest in bulk.

I like this mon as it snipes off common top viability pokes such a Landorus, Weavile, Dragapult, Heatran(on the switch) and Toxapex alongside much more. I feel its niche is being able to constantly get in on common mons it forces out and baiting out it's counters to kill them and possibly get +2 on a pex or slowbro to remove them from the game entirely.

some major calcs

defensive calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Fire Blast vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Glastrier: 276-326 (73.6 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 238-282 (63.4 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 261-307 (69.6 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Dragonite Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 216-254 (57.6 - 67.7%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 188-222 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Offensive calc:
+2 224+ Atk Glastrier Close Combat vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 448-528 (106.4 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 224+ Atk Glastrier Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ferrothorn: 484-570 (137.5 - 161.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 224+ Atk Glastrier High Horsepower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 260-306 (85.5 - 100.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 224+ Atk Glastrier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 412-486 (104.5 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 224+ Atk Glastrier Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 243-286 (60.9 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 224+ Atk Glastrier High Horsepower vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 362-428 (90.7 - 107.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock(on a roost)

some replays

Don't hate on me I only have 2 saved rn cuz I wasn't gonna do this at all and I build this team today but both show what glastrier can do(will add more replays as I play with this mon more)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1497549417
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1497614669-2hxhac3jwkef5wgt2xzu63xbg6kuv9ipw

Now for the closure, I'd like to mention that this mon can fit on a variety of hyper offense and bulky offense teams. hyper offense can use it to soft check threats while using its stallbreaking properties as killing pex, ferro and slowbro allows it to enable mons such as fini, urshifu,Lele, garchomp, dragapult and even more . Bulky offense can use it's raw breaking prowess at +0 to chip/take out massive threats and also give the team a good hand vs fatter teams. Overall I think this mon can be lethal in the right hands and thus should be given a spot higher in the VR to make builders realize that this mon can give a lot of support to their teams.

 

[Ruparajan]

Here are some quick noms-

Tapu lele to A+ : Can 2hko its so-called checks galar slowking, blissey (psyshock) and heatran (focus blast) . Can provide speed control with a scarf and really powerful pokemon in general.

Heatran to S : I totally agree. Heatran has always been the 2nd best pokemon in the meta. A new set in air balloon rocks coming up due to lando rocks going down is really great. Now ppl even run flame body sets. (Agree with the previous nom on heatran as well)

Ferrothorn to S- : I agree with the nom before. It is extremely bulky and provides valuable rocks spikes support to the team. Can run s.def mixed or even p.def and be great.

Zapdos to A: Not much to say but preventing spam u-turn and defog/offensive/defensive/pivot (all with different sets) support is enough to be A rn due to spam of uturn.

Kartana to A+ : Great sweeper and late-game cleaner pair with magnezone really well and can easily sweep.

Gastrodon to B : I agree. It does nothing except checking heatran then dying quick.

Noms I disagree with-

( Edit- I agree with weavile going to S- due to explanations given)

Blaziken to B : Blaziken is just not good with the rising usage of slowbro.

 

[mcpallday]

Here are some quick noms-

Tapu lele to A+ : Can 2hko its so-called checks galar slowking, blissey (psyshock) and heatran (focus blast) . Can provide speed control with a scarf and really powerful pokemon in general.

Heatran to S : I totally agree. Heatran has always been the 2nd best pokemon in the meta. A new set in air balloon rocks coming up due to lando rocks going down is really great. Now ppl even run flame body sets. (Agree with the previous nom on heatran as well)

Ferrothorn to S- : I agree with the nom before. It is extremely bulky and provides valuable rocks spikes support to the team. Can run s.def mixed or even p.def and be great.

Zapdos to A: Not much to say but preventing spam u-turn and defog/offensive/defensive/pivot (all with different sets) support is enough to be A rn due to spam of uturn.

Kartana to A+ : Great sweeper and late-game cleaner pair with magnezone really well and can easily sweep.

Gastrodon to B : I agree. It does nothing except checking heatran then dying quick.

Noms I disagree with-

Weavile to S- : Its not great enough to get to S-. Its a pure A/A+ mon. Cannot break past steels.

Blaziken to B : Blaziken is just not good with the rising usage of slowbro.

One of the main sets dominating high ladder currently is 4 attacks low kick weavile and swords dance low kick weavile (dropping shard or triple axel). It can easily break past steel types with either of these sets. This is without even including the plethora of ways that you can overwhelm and remove steel types (and other checks) in this tier. We have magnezone, nature's madness tapu fini, life orb 2 attacks or 3 attacks clefable, offensive zapdos to overwhelm heatran, soft sand fast lando for phys def ferrothorn with max speed to check volcanion/nidoking, eruption heatran pressuring fini damn near 2ohkoing phys with rocks up, etc. Weavile to S- is a perfectly reasonable nom.

Edit: Forgot to mention that banded lowkick/triple axel/beatup are options that can help weavile overcome every relevant steel type in the tier

 

[Ox the Fox]

S- --> A+
pretty clearly not an S- mon anymore. its still solid but is hard to fit onto teams + more runs on running spdf + weav ise verywhere which rly abuses it

A+ --> S-
imo best mon in the current meta, would put it in S rank but I think its hard to justify another mon in the same rank as Lando-t

A+ --> S-
ferro BO is easily the best archetype rn and we should put the main mon on it in S- rank. Spikes are so helpful for breaking w/ ur mons + iron barbs/rocky helmet chip is amazing in this offensive meta

A+ --> A
still good but not as big of a fan w/ ferro so common as it is. it gets chipped by moves p easily + is very hazard weak

A --> A+
great in this hazard stack meta. avoiding spikes is invaluable + the sheer number of broken sets it has makes it a clear A+ mon

A --> A+
SD kart is one of those mons that almost always gets at least one kill when you use it, easily the best breaker in the tier and should rise up

A --> A+
best water in the tier rn, futureport is broken as always and it checks half the tier

A --> A-
I don't rly like zone atm. on paper its good vs all the ferro teams but in reality its hard to bring in safely + it allows the ferro to get up spikes and forces u to defog later on. its also rly hard to build a good team w/

A- --> B+
hail isn't great rn

A- --> B-
this mon was bad in the kyurem meta and its even worse now. genuinely close to 0 reason I would ever use this mon esp w/ lele not in the meta

B --> B+
trendy SPL pick. defensive sets are hard to break past + check stuff like tran/kart and offensive dd sets are great lategame

 

[Mimikyu Stardust]

UR -> C-

first ever nom yay not raboot tho

Right, so currently rain, urshifu + fsight, melm, hazard stack, hippo sand, and dual genie balance have been on the rise and one mon that i feel like gets overlooked a lot ever since the banning of ace is jellicent, it has a very good hp and spdef stat, respectable defensive and a unique typing and ability. now lets get to what it walls.

at only 252 hp it completely shuts down rain, it takes less than 50 from seismitoad and offensive tornadus-t, and not even being ohkoed by kingdra draco it completely shuts down rain that does not have zapdos or gmolt, even then, you have 5 more mons. you can burn ferro with will-o or scald and even taunt it to prevent it from hazard stacking making it that much more useful.

with its decent enough spdef it doesnt get 2hko by tapu lele or nidoking at only 252 hp and 0 spdef, which you can definetly run jelli as a good spdef wall but it does wall more physically oriented mons which is why i prefer physdef.

Jellicent also has a massive moveset from recover to be able to wall mons, to will-o-wisp for shutting down physical threats, to taunt preventing stall shenanigans, defog or hazard as it can run speed to outspeed skarmory/corviknight, to hex for a surprisingly decent offensive set, to trick or even whirlpool to trap pex, ferro and clef! there are so many sets it can run and so many good match ups with the abundant of Rain, Volcanion, Urshifu, Hippo, Slowbro, Melmetal, it really does have a good place in the meta as a niche pick.

as for the darks, electrics, grass and ghosts of OU? the darks of OU HATES switching into a potential wisp and scald fearing a burn, hell you can even slot in colbur to mess with weavile (viable set). the grass of OU also have the same problem as rillaboom and kart hates getting burned and neutralized while ferro cant do much vs taunt and also hates getting burned, Ghosts fears a potential shadow ball or hex, and electrics... well its SS OU, there isnt a single team without a ground.

i have been having success with a jellicent team that i posted on my rmt with a high ladder peak and it works wonders as something to shut down physical attackers from urshifu to dnite to hawlucha and messing with stall and hazard stack with taunt. i go more indepth in my rmt here


https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...and-version-2-peak-top-8-ladder-1938.3696044/


as for the sets, here are some of my favourites.

PHYSDEF
The Handlebar (Jellicent) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Recover

you can even run colbur for weave or rocky helmet for U-turn

OFFENSIVE
Jellicent (M) @ Spell Tag
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Strength Sap

LURE
The Handlebar (Jellicent) (M) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

SPDEF
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Scald

StallBreaker
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Night Shade
- Recover
- Taunt

Some calcs

252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 152-179 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Jellicent: 306-361 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Dragonite Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Jellicent: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 152-179 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 270-318 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent in Psychic Terrain: 184-217 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Jellicent: 177-208 (43.8 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
116 Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jellicent: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO (ur faster anyways)
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jellicent: 286-338 (70.7 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
68+ Atk Buzzwole Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jellicent: 154-182 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Spell Tag Jellicent Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 154-183 (50.6 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

Replays where jellicent shown its strenght the most
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1489254699 VS Pivot Spam BO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1487444720-gu54z00zjprv87cskvpla94jvc7hikhpw VS Hydreigon Melm BO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1485038590-q307dhuz9z5jpigday0rhgujxevv258pw VS Haxorus HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1484880027-urbnfbhfrkvvp7ydappix7x7zvd7ea9pw VS whatever that team style is called
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1484937576 VS Set-up spam

Below are replays from my RMT
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486983703 VS Regen Balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486448571 VS Sand Balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486433503 VS Volcanion BO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486416868 VS Lele-Weave-Pult-Tran Offense
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1487695815-f3unuc91ehkf8irbbkh4ighgfk1vspopw VS Mew Lead HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486915835-2nrmd18aqfu8x98p2np9v6ml0ysel0dpw VS Ghost Spam
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486910519-7rgrvf0xj4840p3io17evatxh1ows1wpw VS Bulu BO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486373466-kl69ab3mgoarcq8umjkyiulg54slxa5pw VS Stall
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486904235-kashtnpghw37p307shjs2104i5rg1zvpw 6-6 Early forfeit VS HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486460918-4sp625f6bq8esmovf7l4uag7m8vwchcpw VS Skarm Lead HO

i didnt safe the replays where i fought hazard stack because i forgot, but trust me, taunt jellicent sits and destroy those teams

viable, trust me

 

[SLDR]

UR -> C-

first ever nom yay not raboot tho

Right, so currently rain, urshifu + fsight, melm, hazard stack, hippo sand, and dual genie balance have been on the rise and one mon that i feel like gets overlooked a lot ever since the banning of ace is jellicent, it has a very good hp and spdef stat, respectable defensive and a unique typing and ability. now lets get to what it walls.

at only 252 hp it completely shuts down rain, it takes less than 50 from seismitoad and offensive tornadus-t, and not even being ohkoed by kingdra draco it completely shuts down rain that does not have zapdos or gmolt, even then, you have 5 more mons. you can burn ferro with will-o or scald and even taunt it to prevent it from hazard stacking making it that much more useful.

with its decent enough spdef it doesnt get 2hko by tapu lele or nidoking at only 252 hp and 0 spdef, which you can definetly run jelli as a good spdef wall but it does wall more physically oriented mons which is why i prefer physdef.

Jellicent also has a massive moveset from recover to be able to wall mons, to will-o-wisp for shutting down physical threats, to taunt preventing stall shenanigans, defog or hazard as it can run speed to outspeed skarmory/corviknight, to hex for a surprisingly decent offensive set, to trick or even whirlpool to trap pex, ferro and clef! there are so many sets it can run and so many good match ups with the abundant of Rain, Volcanion, Urshifu, Hippo, Slowbro, Melmetal, it really does have a good place in the meta as a niche pick.

as for the darks, electrics, grass and ghosts of OU? the darks of OU HATES switching into a potential wisp and scald fearing a burn, hell you can even slot in colbur to mess with weavile (viable set). the grass of OU also have the same problem as rillaboom and kart hates getting burned and neutralized while ferro cant do much vs taunt and also hates getting burned, Ghosts fears a potential shadow ball or hex, and electrics... well its SS OU, there isnt a single team without a ground.

i have been having success with a jellicent team that i posted on my rmt with a high ladder peak and it works wonders as something to shut down physical attackers from urshifu to dnite to hawlucha and messing with stall and hazard stack with taunt. i go more indepth in my rmt here


https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...and-version-2-peak-top-8-ladder-1938.3696044/


as for the sets, here are some of my favourites.

PHYSDEF
The Handlebar (Jellicent) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Recover

you can even run colbur for weave or rocky helmet for U-turn

OFFENSIVE
Jellicent (M) @ Spell Tag
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Strength Sap

LURE
The Handlebar (Jellicent) (M) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

SPDEF
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Scald

Some calcs

252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 152-179 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Jellicent: 306-361 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Dragonite Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Jellicent: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 152-179 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 270-318 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent in Psychic Terrain: 184-217 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Jellicent: 177-208 (43.8 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
116 Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jellicent: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO (ur faster anyways)
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jellicent: 286-338 (70.7 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
68+ Atk Buzzwole Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jellicent: 154-182 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Spell Tag Jellicent Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 154-183 (50.6 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

Replays where jellicent shown its strenght the most
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1489254699 VS Pivot Spam BO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1487444720-gu54z00zjprv87cskvpla94jvc7hikhpw VS Hydreigon Melm BO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1485038590-q307dhuz9z5jpigday0rhgujxevv258pw VS Haxorus HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1484880027-urbnfbhfrkvvp7ydappix7x7zvd7ea9pw VS whatever that team style is called
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1484937576 VS Set-up spam

Below are replays from my RMT
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486983703 VS Regen Balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486448571 VS Sand Balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486433503 VS Volcanion BO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486416868 VS Lele-Weave-Pult-Tran Offense
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1487695815-f3unuc91ehkf8irbbkh4ighgfk1vspopw VS Mew Lead HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486915835-2nrmd18aqfu8x98p2np9v6ml0ysel0dpw VS Ghost Spam
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486910519-7rgrvf0xj4840p3io17evatxh1ows1wpw VS Bulu BO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486373466-kl69ab3mgoarcq8umjkyiulg54slxa5pw VS Stall
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486904235-kashtnpghw37p307shjs2104i5rg1zvpw 6-6 Early forfeit VS HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1486460918-4sp625f6bq8esmovf7l4uag7m8vwchcpw VS Skarm Lead HO

i didnt safe the replays where i fought hazard stack because i forgot, but trust me, taunt jellicent sits and destroy those teams

viable, trust me

Every BW/BW2 OU Pokémon being brought to discussion brings me positively nostalgic vibes so I immediately love this nom.
I don't really have much input this time around as I've never even touched Jellicent in SS OU.

I do have one question though: on a Taunt stall breaker set have you (or any other people who have experimented with Jellicent in SS OU) ever tried or considered a Will-O-Wisp + Night Shade/Hex combination? Your team doesn't really struggle with Toxapex to warrant either so I understand the decision in this case. This is just an ordinary question out of curiosity because I feel like this is the most reliable combination.

You don't need Scald to threaten burns when you have Will-O-Wisp, especially since Ferrothorn and Toxapex are really common, people WILL switch them into Jellicent and they are immune to Toxic. Will-O-Wisp also makes you more threatening to lurking Kartanas and Weaviles since Scald isn't guaranteed to burn while Toxic has no effect on the former and doesn't make the latter immediately easier to check.

The choice between Night Shade and Hex comes down to personal preference, the point is that Night Shade provides reliable damage while STAB Hex can become a very potent mono-attacking move to have with how easy Will-O-Wisp is to spam.

 

[Mimikyu Stardust]

Every BW/BW2 OU Pokémon being brought to discussion brings me positively nostalgic vibes so I immediately love this nom.
I don't really have much input this time around as I've never even touched Jellicent in SS OU.

I do have one question though: on a Taunt stall breaker set have you (or any other people who have experimented with Jellicent in SS OU) ever tried or considered a Will-O-Wisp + Night Shade/Hex combination? Your team doesn't really struggle with Toxapex to warrant either so I understand the decision in this case. This is just an ordinary question out of curiosity because I feel like this is the most reliable combination.

You don't need Scald to threaten burns when you have Will-O-Wisp, especially since Ferrothorn and Toxapex are really common, people WILL switch them into Jellicent and they are immune to Toxic. Will-O-Wisp also makes you more threatening to lurking Kartanas and Weaviles since Scald isn't guaranteed to burn while Toxic has no effect on the former and doesn't make the latter immediately easier to check.

The choice between Night Shade and Hex comes down to personal preference, the point is that Night Shade provides reliable damage while STAB Hex can become a very potent mono-attacking move to have with how easy Will-O-Wisp is to spam.

Hi, Will-O-Wisp Hex has been tried sucessfully, night shade is also an amazing option for consistent damage and something to smack heatran, torn and fini with. i was supposed to add the set there but i completely forgot to copy it in the post so thank you for reminding me!

as for why i have scald and wisp on one of the sets is because will-o is there when i want to spread burns consistently while scald is just as an all around good stab to hit things with and still threaten burns. scald + toxic has the same reason as scald threatens the poison and steel of ou while toxic just spreads more damage.

As i said, jelli is very flexible in its set and can really run almost anything. youre not forced to run one set, one spread, one item. you can run fast spdef, trick scarf, offensive, taunt stall breaker and still does what its meant to do and then some. so dont sleep.

 

[Finchinator]

I am going to close this and get up the slate tomorrow night. Hope for the update to go up early next week!

 

[Finchinator]

 

[Finchinator]

As we have done the last times, this thread will be open to questions on the shifts for the next 48 hours. I will get to them on my own time over the course of this period, but PLEASE NO REPEAT QUESTIONS!!! I will get to every unique question, but please search to see if your question is already asked.

Rises

• from A+ to S-
• from A+ to S-
• from A to A+
• from A to A+
• from A to A+
• from A- to A
• from A- to A
• from B+ to A-
• from B to A-
• from B- to B+
• from C+ to B-
• from C to C+

Drops

• from S- to A+
• from A- to B+
• from A- to B+
• from B+ to B
• from B+ to B
• from B+ to B
• from B+ to B
• from B- to C+
• from B- to C+
• from C+ to C
• from C+ to C
• from C+ to C

Feel free to ask about any of the shifts now, but NO REPEAT QUESTIONS!!

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Why did celesteela rise? is it the meteor beam set that is used or the defensive cuz they seem to be outclassed

 

[Finchinator]

Why did celesteela rise? is it the meteor beam set that is used or the defensive cuz they seem to be outclassed

Yes, entirely because of the Meteor Beam + Automize set. It is a unique pick on offense that has a valuable defensive typing and a good array of coverage. It starts off on the weaker side, but with a turn or two to get the ball rolling, Celesteela can be a plus option offensively in the right match-up. It is still not top tier or anywhere close to last generation even, but it's very much viable now.

 

[u are a noob]

Why did clef and weavile rose

 

[Clone]

Why no heatran rise

 

[Pietrym]

How come Pult dropped a rank?

 

[Finchinator]

Why did clef and weavile rose

Clefable's got a pretty versatile defensive and utility profile right now. CM sets are picking up more traction and utility options like Trick open up a lot of doors for teammates. Clefable's ability to compress status absorption with being a check to Dragapult also is a good example of it fitting well onto many balance teams.

Weavile has been picking things off left-and-right, becoming a premier breaker and revenge killer. It has a great typing and very practical STABs, warping the tier to force things like Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn and Tapu Fini to see tons of usage in response to it.

Will get to the rest tomorrow, thanks for being patient

 

[fruityiscool423]

why did nido drop? it's 4a set is really good and destroys a lot of defensive cores rn a really solid breaker imo esp with bliss and slowking not being common

 

[Evil T-tar]

Is there any reason as to why Slowbro didn't rise?

 

[agslash23]

1) What is it with Dragonite? It rises and falls in every VR update. Why did it is rise this time, despite Weavile and Clefable rising?

2) How did Kartana rise, but Lele did not? As far as I see, both are breakers/scarfers who don't provide much value defensively, so wanted to understand Kartana's rise.

3) I understand the Seismitoad rise. But, how come Pelipper and Barraskewda didn't rise? Rain overall seems great post Kyurem ban.

4) Is Dragapult drop because of rise of Weavile, Clefable and Melmetal? All 3 check it in some way. Moreover Weavile provides competition (outclasses at the moment) as a Speed Control option.

5) Though Garchomp is my favorite Pokemon, did you ever consider dropping it to A-? The metagame is a bit too hostile to it due to rise of Weavile, Clefable, Offensive Zapdos, as well as the continued viability of Tapu Fini. But yeah, I don't mind it remaining A either coz it has a tech against almost all its checks.

 

[yogo896]

Why didn't Tyranitar rise? I think balance and bulky offense structures don't have much switch-ins to its CB set.
Set:
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch

They usually run Corviknight, Slowbro, Ferrothorn , Toxapex, etc as thier swap in to physical attackers. But these mons get chunked or straight up faint by Tyranitar's stabs and coverage. Some calcs are given below:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 206-244 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 205-243 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ferrothorn: 436-516 (123.8 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 328-388 (93.1 - 110.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 147-174 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 180-213 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 308-364 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Nowadays it runs Spdef mostly, but they straight up die)
And it even threatens the offensive mons in these teams such as pult, koko, blacephalon, galaring slowking, volcarona, heatran, etc. And even if it can't switch in directly the prevalence of moves such as u-turn, volt switch and teleport from mons like corv, tornadus-t, landorus-t, zapdos, slowbro,etc means that getting Tyranitar in is not that hard. The latter also provides future sight support to ease the prediction on mons like buzzwole and pex.

 

[Mimikyu Stardust]

• from B+ to B